Member: SLIPPERY
Location: SLIDING
Remote Name: 24.223.158.196
Date: 02 May 2004
Time: 08:54 AM -0400

Comments

Hello,my name is Slippery and I'm an alcoholic.More signs for me to pay attention.I am on this very step with my sponsor.It is very difficult to make this list but I am progressing with it.It will take some time for the baggage is literally buried very deeply from within,but I will get there.When I first started my list the other day,I was writing anything that I could remember but I have found it easier to do for me if I start at the the earliest age that I can remember and honestly work my way forward.It is painstaking so far but necessary to go any further.Thanks to my sponsor I will progress. SLIPPERY S.


Member: Larry C
Location: Eureka, Ca
Remote Name: 216.100.38.152
Date: 02 May 2004
Time: 10:39 AM -0400

Comments

Larry C, a grateful alcoholic, here, step 4 seemed such a long, drawn out, affair, I didn't think I'd ever finish, page after page, mainly of self-pity. My sponsor soon corrected much of this by pointing out so many of the similarities, all in all it boiled down to EGO, My will (not his), my desires NOT others, my wishes NOT anyone elses, my comforts NOT yours. ME,ME,ME,ME, :(, Having made a dent, no, I haven't finished, this inventory, like the 'steps' is an ongoing process, never finished, I thought I could rest and relax a little, but NO, my sponsor said it was now, immediately, necessary to go on to step five. Thanks all, and good morning to every one.


Member: Adam H.
Location: New York, NY
Remote Name: 172.130.99.114
Date: 02 May 2004
Time: 12:31 PM -0400

Comments

Adam, alcoholic. I really like what the Big Book says about Step 4: Our liquor was but a symptom, so we had to get down to causes and conditions. If alcohol had been the problem, I would have simply quit drinking and gotten on with my life. Problem was, when I stopped drinking, I'd invariably find myself lying, cheating, stealing and hurting someone else or myelf so that I could stop feeling the pain of dealing with reality sober. I needed to see and own up to the destructive role I had been playing in my own life...not just what I had done but WHY I had done it. WHY, in particular, was important. If I was ever going to have the personality change (aka, spiritual awakening) that would be sufficient to overcome alcoholism, then I needed to get at the root of my sick thinking and reasoning, for it was there that the change would have to occur. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Tracy
Location: Little ole England
Remote Name: 62.255.64.7
Date: 02 May 2004
Time: 03:36 PM -0400

Comments

After sweating buckets on writing my step 4 out...one sentence from my then sponser summed it all up.."It may not have been like that" my perception of how my life had been just fell away. trace


Member: Barry D
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Remote Name: 68.145.123.186
Date: 02 May 2004
Time: 05:26 PM -0400

Comments

Step 4...An Overview of what sponsor shared in helping me do a thorough Step 4 using BB pg 64-71, 12x12 and "As Bill See's It " reading all pgs on inventory & character defects. i was 3 years sober and at jumping off place before i started to become teachable. i had previously attempted variations of AA and Barry way with predictable Barry results. We threw away a 4" binder of work sheets i had prev accumulated, particulary after a Fransciscan quest if i had reduced my life to a series of check marks. Sponsor asked if i had had enough, sat down with me at central office and we went through BB and 12x12 as layed out in those pages. ((( RESENTMENTS ))): Col 1 - BB asked me to list people, institutions and principles with which i was angry. With principles sponsor suggested i look in dictionary and consider eg. as Till death do us part, you shall not steal, adultery, covet, murder etc. Write them down. Col 2 - The Cause, we asked ourselves why we were angry? Write it down. Col 3 - We set opposite each name our injuries. WAS IT Self Esteem, Security, Ambitions, Personal or Sex Relations, which had been interfered with? Write it all down. They reminded me that Pride, Self Esteem and Fear are closely tied. Also suggested i consider sex relation includes more than intimate other, it's co-workers, family, friends and any one else i've had personal contact with. Col 4 - BB Pg 66/67 & 12x12 Pg 47 list 2 Courses of action to consider with each resentment. 1st Consider or Realize they're spiritually sick. 2nd Look for OUR mistake, was it Selfish, Dishonest, Self Seeking, Frightened (Fear). Disregard other person entirely. 12x12 Pg 48 ...To avoid falling into confusion regarding what defects called Pride, Greed, Lust, Anger, Gluttony, Envy and Sloth. 12x12 Pg 49 explains each. Write down each character defect. Col 5 - BB Pg 67 Where were we to blame? When we saw our faults we listed them. Sponsor suggested i first write out all the questions listed in BB and particularly 12X12 on separate piece of paper. Use column 5 to analyze and answer my part in each of the resentments listed. ((( FEARS ))): BB bottom Pg 67-68 Col 1 - Take all fears from resentment list and Put all fears on paper, even though no resentment in connection. Col 2 - We asked why we had them? Was it because Self Reliance failed us? *** We ask him to remove our fears and direct our attention to what he would have us be. 12x12 Pg 49 Failings generate fear...fear generates more character defects. 1. Instincts (Pride) will not be satisfied drives us to 2. Covet (Greed) processions of others 3. Lust for Sex and Power 4. Become ANGRY when instinctive demands not met 5. Envious when ambitions of others realized while ours are not 6. Eat Drink and Grab for more of everything than we need, fearing we shall never have enough 7. Genuine alarm (SLOTH) at prospect of work we stay lazy 8. Loaf and Procrastinate or work under 1/2 steam.((( SEX ))): BB Pg 68-70 Above all be sensible, it's easy to get away off track. Col 4 - Where had we been Selfish, Dishonest, Inconsiderate, Whom had we hurt? Did we unjustifiably arouse Jealousy, Suspicion, Bitterness? Col 5 - Where were we at fault? What should we have done instead? 12X12 Pg 50 Using our best judgment of right and wrong, make a rough survey of the conduct...Sex, Security and Society. 11 Questions re SEX 12X12 Pg 50-51. ((( IDEALS ))): BB Pg 69-70 1. We got this all down on paper and looked at it. 2. We try to shape a sound ideal 3. We subject each relation to this test .. Was it Selfish or Not. 4. We ask God to mold our Ideals. Remember sex powers are God given and therefore good, neither to be used lightly or selfishly despised or loathed. LIST YOUR IDEALS - (Steps 8 & 9 Whatever our ideal turns out to be we must be willing to grow towards it...) 5. IN MEDITATION WE ASK GOD WHAT WE SHOULD DO ABOUT EACH SPECIFIC MATTER. The answer will come if we want it...To Sum up about sex: Earnestly pray for right ideal. For guidance in each questionable situation. For Sanity. For Strength to do the right thing. ((( FINANCIAL ))): 12x12 Pg 51 Also important are quest they must ask about behavior respecting FINANCIAL & EMOTIONAL SECURITY. Survey business and employment record. Col 4 - Fear, Greed, Possessiveness, Pride have done they're worst. Col 5 - 11 Quest Re Financial Family financially insecure? Juggle Charge accts? Manipulate Food budget? Spend afternoon gambling? Run significant other into debt by irresponsibility? waste? extravagance? AA's who have drunk them selves out of Jobs, Friends, Family will need to cross examine self RUTHLESSLY to determine HOW THEY'RE OWN PERSONALITY DEFECTS HAVE DEMOLISHED THEY'RE SECURITY. ((( EMOTIONAL ))): 12x12 Pg 52 Col 4 - Most common symptoms of emotional insecurity are Worry (Pride/Self Esteem), Anger, Self Pity, Depression. CAUSES ARE WITHIN AND WITHOUT. Col 5 - 1. Consider all personal relations which bring continuous recurring trouble. 2. Remember this type of insecurity may arise where instincts are threatened. 3. Look at both past and present, what sex situations caused me Anxiety, Bitterness, Frustration, Depression. 4 Quest + 3 Financial Questions = 7 FINANCIAL: Suppose that financial insecurity constantly arouses these same feelings. Quest like these, more of which will come to mind easily in each individual case, will help turn up root causes. ((( FAMILY ))): 12x12 Pg 53 From twisted relations with family, friends and society at large that many of us have suffered the most...especially stupid and stubborn about them. Primary fact we fail to recognize is our total inability to form a true partnership with another human being... 5 Col - 1. Insist on dominating people or 2. We depend on them too much· ((( SUMMARY ))): BB Pg 70 If we have been thorough we have written down a lot. We have listed and analyzed our resentments..We have begun to learn Tolerance, Patience and Good Will... 12x12 Pg54 Thoroughness ought to be the watchword when taking inventory. In this connection it is wise to write out our questions and answers. It will be an aid to clear thinking and honest appraisal. Sponsor also had me read BB 3rd eddition pgs 13 L21-28, 25L4-9,73L4-5,75L4-5,76L17-19,292L10-17,550-553,555L29-33,560L12-15. For me he added, "to rid ourselves from taking others inventory" pg 449-450. Hope this share of my own experience helps more than being an irritation, the tools i aquired from it have served me well over last 11 yrs (3 yrs prior was Dry EGO trip) and no more jumping off place experiences since. To this day i know it was thorough and my sponsor only ever smiled when i was finished...Thankyou for my sobriety


Member: RalphK
Location: Iowa
Remote Name: 12.217.224.245
Date: 02 May 2004
Time: 07:19 PM -0400

Comments

Hi everyone, Ralph/alcoholic here. Glad to see this topic this week, as I'm in the midst of mine--and being an academic it of course has to be well-written and carefully argued! Each day I start a new topic; today's was marriage + parenthood. A friend told me that I have to address pride in the process (must know me pretty well!). It's an amazing experience. Will fill in ore later in the week, after more progress and with more time to write than I've got right now. Best wishes! Ralph


Member: Les
Location: San Diego
Remote Name: 205.188.116.144
Date: 03 May 2004
Time: 01:27 AM -0400

Comments

The instructions in the Big Book for Step Four are very clear yet how many of us miss the fourth column; what was our part in the particular resentment? How many of us miss putting our fears on paper, even if they are unrelated to a resentment? How many of us fail to put down our shortcomings when we spot them? How many of us miss doing a moral inventory on sex exactly as we did the one on resentments? How many of us do not stay sober if we do not take this most important step? Some refer to taking only the fist three steps as "The Three Step - The Dance of Death." Ah well, carpe diem if you can.


Member: Karen S.
Location: Alaska
Remote Name: 209.165.150.195
Date: 03 May 2004
Time: 03:52 AM -0400

Comments

Hi, I'm Karen, alcoholic. My first step four exposed the tip of the iceberg. I was only a couple weeks sober, and it helped tremendously to finally see my most glaring shortcomings and take responsibility for them. My next 4th step was more revealing, and then my 3rd one taught me the most. Someone actually stayed with me through all of my writing. We read the fourth step from the Big Book, prayed when it said to pray and I wrote when it asked me to list, set on paper, etc. I've done one more fourth step since then, and I had to because I failed to practice the 10th step for a while. The Big Book laid it all out for me. I started with my failures, then wrote about my resentments, then my fears, then my sex conduct. I remember being very afraid to do a fourth step because so many people in AA are afraid of it. After doing the work, I was amazed at how easy it was, how worthwhile, and how insane to NOT do one. It's simply laying bare the truth about me. I am who I am, whether or not I'm willing to look at myself. So long as I balked at looking at myself, the character defects had control. Once I exposed them, I found I could recognize them and then give them to God. Thanks.


Member: illba
Location: Fl
Remote Name: 24.144.78.223
Date: 03 May 2004
Time: 12:10 PM -0400

Comments

I have not yet reached this step. When I decided to stop drinking I was full and still am full of guilt and shame for the way I lived my loife and treated myself and others. I immediately wanted to make amends to rid me of these feelings, but I know that I need to work these steps in order so I can become the person GOD wants meto become. So for now I am going to work 1,2,&3 fully before I do this step.I guess I need to pray for patience and help on the first3.thanks.


Member: Rivner
Location: Maine
Remote Name: 63.114.222.235
Date: 04 May 2004
Time: 08:10 AM -0400

Comments

Hey There Slippery, Ah Step 4. I think this is the most misunderstood one there is. If it's done right it should take no more than a day. Over the past few decades the treatment centers have interpreted this step to be a huge list of every misdeed we can recall since toddling and, unfortunately, this sense of it began to permeate the hall of AA. This was never the intention. The fourth step is laid out in the BB and is more than frequently misunderstood. Wilson was so exacting and precise with the instructions we missed the simplicity of them. Go out and get the tapes or CDs of the "Joe and Charlie Big Book Study" and give them a listen. These ol' boys may just enlighten you forever. Not enough room here for me to do it and they do it best. Blessings, Rivner


Member: sarah E
Location: NWUSA
Remote Name: 205.162.15.2
Date: 04 May 2004
Time: 10:48 AM -0400

Comments

"Next, we decided that hereafter in this drama of life, God was going to be our Director. He is the Principal; we are His agents." p. 62 of the Big Book. Spiritual healing for a spiritual disease ... I don't have to drink today thus becoming an 'agent' of the drunken HUMAN EGO (mine and/or yours). Thanks, one and all for sharing the Steps and Traditions, the Experience, Strength and Hope. "God, I offer myself to thee--to build with and to do with me as Thou wilt. Relieve me of bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will. Take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help of Thy Power, Thy Love,and Thy Way of life. May I do Thy will always." p 63 of the Big Book


Member: Babette
Location: Jerusalem
Remote Name: 82.166.255.133
Date: 04 May 2004
Time: 10:48 AM -0400

Comments

((Rivner)) I am about to start my 4th Step and someone sent me CDs of Joe and Charlie. I had heard them once before years ago but didn't follow them through. I am so grateful to have them now. They answer all my unasked questions. I definetly agree you should try and get them ((Slippery)). They actually make this work fun!


Member: Craig L (Dogmanor@yahoo.com)
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Remote Name: 65.102.61.160
Date: 04 May 2004
Time: 10:57 AM -0400

Comments

In my first 4th step, there were one or two items I felt deep shame and fear about. I had tried to avoid thinking about these things most of my life. Thanks to help from my sponsor they showed up on my fourth step. I often think many first fourth steps could be written on a matchbook cover. Each 4th I have done since was done in the light of the new sanity and God consciousness I gained since the last. Whenever I hold resentments in my heart and wonāt let go, I know one step to relief is a personal inventory.


Member: roze
Location: Penna.
Remote Name: 152.163.252.194
Date: 04 May 2004
Time: 03:12 PM -0400

Comments

well now i have to get the joe & charlie tapes! i did a 4th step at about 3months sober.


Member: Larry C
Location: Eureka, Ca
Remote Name: 216.100.38.121
Date: 04 May 2004
Time: 04:30 PM -0400

Comments

Hye, Larry C. here, a question, I have done my fourth step three times now, each time feeling good about it, however, there is one, one, incident in my life I dare not to mention to any living person, not that any laws were broken, yet should my behavior should be ever known it could destroy two lives/loves so close to me. Without details, I have spoken to my sponsor about this, leaving him for once, without advice to me. Any suggestions??


Member: chuckm
Location: Alberta
Remote Name: 209.197.146.107
Date: 05 May 2004
Time: 12:51 AM -0400

Comments

I'm Chuck, an alcoholic Larry are you sure your problem is with step 4?You have learned something that makes you feel guilt and remorse. Guilt and remorse, something bad I have done, goes on the step 8 list. I pray for the willingnes to make amends. Step 9 says I make amends except when to do so would cause further injury. I cannot hurt other people to make me feel better. God has forgiven me so I must forgive myself.I helped a lady who confessed that her 16 year old daughter was the result of an affair. I told her she had to go to the grave rather than rob a girl of a father and a father of a daughter. Peace and Serenity


Member: Rivner
Location: Maine
Remote Name: 63.114.222.69
Date: 05 May 2004
Time: 07:46 AM -0400

Comments

Howdy Folks - I'm an alcoholic, name's Rivner. A fearless, MORAL inventory ö not an immoral or amoral inventory. Wilson was specific. It is not a list of nasty things we have done. Thatās why we list the resentments first. Harbored anger brings us to examining our role in what set it all forward and what about us was threatened. The list of folks weāve harmed shows up as we do this and the list of characteristics needing work shows up also, but it all comes in the slipstream of looking at the resentments first and then moving on to the rest (fears, etc.). If step 4 is done correctly, then every thing we need for 5,6,7,8 and 9 will be in place. However ö itās been my experience that my early hesitations and confusions about step 4 were fueled by where I WASNāT with 2 and 3. 2 is about believing the possibilities. 3 is the leap of faith. We all want to get through 2 & 3 pretty quickly, but for a lot of us itās a whole new idea and it really can take some time letting the acceptance thing sink in. I found I literally needed time to ćpracticeä believing before I could deeply embrace the faith required to continue the rest of it without fear. For me it had to be about the light coming on closer to the beginning of the tunnel rather than at the elucive end. That ćGodās will for meä always made me wince ö until some olā boy reminded me that Godās will for me was that I be happy, joyous and free. So I began to pray that Godās will be MY will. Then it fit nicely, and then I was finally settled with step 3 and could move on. If Iām sittinā there trying to tweak it all by myself, then itās just my sick mind trying to heal my sick mind, and Iām just in my head like a bad neighborhood where shouldnāt be goinā alone. Blessings


Member: susans
Location: california
Remote Name: 4.27.16.130
Date: 05 May 2004
Time: 01:04 PM -0400

Comments

please just pray that my landlord lets me stay susans usa


Member: AZbill
Location: azbill1172@cox.net
Remote Name: 68.231.160.24
Date: 06 May 2004
Time: 01:34 AM -0400

Comments

Hi. Bill here, alcoholic from Arizona. Amen Rivner. This is a moral inventory and not an amoral inventory. And moral only means knowing the difference between right and wrong. I do not have to share fourth step information with anyone unless I choose to. None of my sponsors required me to. The only thing I am looking at in Step Four is my angers, fears, and my sex life. Three areas is all. The sex inventory is very personal. From page 69, WE(that is us folks) do not want to be the arbiter of anyone's sex conduct. Later on at the bottom of the page...God alone(and that ain't us folks)can judge our sex situation. Certainly not anyone in AA. Just to clear matters up. There is one person in this whole wide world that knows my entire story every dark secret, every nook and cranny and he is not in AA. But that is another step entirely.. Thanks for being a part of my sobriety today. Love ya, Bill


Member: stuart
Location: london UK
Remote Name: 217.35.96.78
Date: 06 May 2004
Time: 11:24 AM -0400

Comments

thanks Rivner. Like you, I thought Step 4 was about all the scuzzy thoughts and misdeeds i was up to in drinking and was put right. It was to do with the "nature of the wrongs"/shortcomings/defects etc. hence the need for a good sponsor to help guide me..someone who has already recovered throught the 12 Steps. it was feeing to understand my sickness in Step 4, let God shine a light on it and help me to start to free myself of the sickness through the process of the rest of the steps God Bless


Member: stuart
Location: london UK
Remote Name: 217.35.96.78
Date: 06 May 2004
Time: 11:25 AM -0400

Comments

...that's "freeing"


Member: scott
Location: california
Remote Name: 198.26.118.37
Date: 06 May 2004
Time: 09:15 PM -0400

Comments

becuase of my situation I am in need of a email sponsor if any would be willing please emial me at scott.stokes@us.army.mil


Member: flowers
Location: california
Remote Name: 4.27.16.130
Date: 06 May 2004
Time: 11:36 PM -0400

Comments

Hi eww. That's hard cause my sponser has not helped me with the steps. i know that I am a 45 yr old going on 15. That is all Susans Calif


Member: Sheila A.
Location: Lufkin, TX
Remote Name: 172.149.87.173
Date: 06 May 2004
Time: 11:37 PM -0400

Comments

hi, i'm sheila, i'm an alcoholic, i too am trying to work on step 4. my d.o.s. is 7/5/2002, i've started writing about 6 months into the program but procrastinated since. i need to finish step 4 do step 5 and move on. i am actively involved in service work w/my home group. i am a member of grp cons. i take care of soda & coffee inventory for the hall, i head up a committee for our 56th anniversary celebration this june 5. i take care of 2 boys & have a husband in recovery also & get this his dos is 6/26/02. we both work long hours & he bugs me constantly to finish my 4th step. i haven't done it partly because of time & partly because i'm afraid to. writing my 4th step down always turns into a resentment release on paper. i didn't know 1 person could have so much anger bottled up inside but i do, i still have cravings for a taste of beer. i sometimes miss the taste & smell but i don't miss the way my life was when i drank or used. my life is getting better, i'm told i'm missing out w/o doing my 4 & 5 steps. thanks for letting me share. love ya'll


Member: maryw
Location: kansas
Remote Name: 68.103.52.156
Date: 07 May 2004
Time: 04:14 AM -0400

Comments

ahh the 4th step. i remember thinking that i had to dig through a mountain of sh*t and was only given a teaspoon. i have done several since i got sober. each time, i felt lower than low and then when i did the 5th step i felt so free and light. slip, searching and fearless... i believe in you!


Member: Rivner
Location: Maine
Remote Name: 69.49.147.52
Date: 08 May 2004
Time: 11:16 AM -0400

Comments

Howdy Folks, I'm an alcoholic, name's Rivner. I heard Father Martin say once, " I believe in my heart that, if He wanted to, God would move a mountain for you, but you'd better bring your own shovel". Also - "Prayer does work for a tooth ache, but only on the way to the dentist". Blessings