Member: Stew E
Location: Fl
Date: 4/28/2002
Time: 1:34:55 PM

Comments

I can't stand the silence. At least this group does not have that problem.

It is refreshing to see that an organization as large as AA can be free of the beaurocratic constraints and have the AUTONOMY to keep its #1 goal in mind.

KCB.


Member: Sarah
Location: NW USA
Date: 4/28/2002
Time: 2:18:37 PM

Comments

"Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole."

Autonomous and whole.

We come to the meeting first saying the "Serenity Prayer" asking plese give "Me (autonomous)" the wisdom, courage and serenity.

Then sharing our personal Expereince, Strength and Hope... While listening to the similarities I hear either 'my story' or 'my problem's story' which leads me to some understanding of the "affecting the whole (We)"

Hopefully, by the close of the meeting the prayer is of a "Healing Power for both "Me" and "We".

Thanks A.A. for another day sober.


Member: Jenn P.
Location: Poconos, PA
Date: 4/28/2002
Time: 6:37:18 PM

Comments

Hello all Jenn here, alcoholic. "Except in matters affecting other groups or AA as a whole." I have watched groups struggle and die because this tradition was not taken into consideration when starting a new group. Do we think about who else meets nearby on the same night near the same time as the meeting we think we need to start? Can we, in the spirit of Unity, support that group instead? In my area there are many groups with very few active members, but yet we'll open a new group right next door at the same time. Maybe we could throw our energy behind the already existing group to make it stronger. I know these are suggestions, but they are based on years of experience. They are what protects us from ourselves. I am so glad they put their experience, strength, and hope down for us to study. Thanks for listening. Have a happy sober 24.


Member: Dave G.
Location: MA
Date: 4/29/2002
Time: 10:41:26 PM

Comments

Dave, alcoholic. I agree with what Jenn says. In Eastern Mass., Area 30, the Central Service Committee suggest that we support an existing meeting before starting a new one. There are already over 2,500 meetings in Area 30, all days and times. Unfortunately, ego, power and control issues usually are behind starting a new meeting near an existing meeting at the same time, although there may be legitimate reasons to do so. However, if we apply this tradition, as Jenn points out, all will be well.


Member: Low
Location:
Date: 4/29/2002
Time: 10:51:58 PM

Comments

Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups of A.A. as a whole.

If only the world could agree and live by this simple tradition!!


Member: Jessi
Location: Brunei(Southeast Asia)
Date: 4/30/2002
Time: 4:32:50 AM

Comments

Well, i don't know much about this tradition, but here we don't have meetings, and if there are alcoholics here, they keep quiet. This is a muslim dominated country where there is no public sale of alcohol so I'm alone except for u guys which is awesome. This place is awesome, like website I mean. Being a group of alcoholics, I should think that not everybody follows the traditions and steps so I think it is normal. Even here, the muslims r supposed to pray 5 times a day and the prayer is announced all over the country. In fact it is on rite now. Loudspeakers, radio evrything and still not all muslims do it. I don't know what I'm getting at but I think that is what makes it interesting. Trying to keep others on the same path as our own, helps us to be stronger in our own sobriety


Member: Jen K.
Location:
Date: 4/30/2002
Time: 11:38:10 AM

Comments

All I know is my group, of which I was a member for 16 sober years, was so autonomous it made up its own program. To me, a home group is exactly equal to a cult. You should have seen some of the abuse to the members that went on. If you disagreed with ANYTHING the "elder members" said, you were considered a "dry drunk" and people would shun you. One small example: if you were setting up the room for the meeting, you had to put the slogans in the SAME order, EVERY TIME, or you would get yelled at. They don't even SEE that this might affect AA as a whole. What kind of "program of recovery" focuses on little details like that? Also, the 90-in-90 thing defeats me. What do I tell a single, working mother about 90-in-90? She won't get sober without it? Yet, this is what my "home group" preaches. I've finally had enough. Autonomy requires self-discipline; I have yet to see a single member of AA (and this is after 16 years, attending every night for 7 years and at least 4x/wk after that) exibit an ounce of self-discipline. My group also suggests that we DON'T THINK. Well, I find that to be a very scary proposition. The Moonies and the Scientologists tell their people the exact same thing...

What do you think?


Member: Michael B.
Location: AZ
Date: 5/1/2002
Time: 12:22:12 AM

Comments

Hi! My name is Michael, and I am a recovering alcoholic and Loner Sponsor, sober today only by the Grace of God and the Fellowship. Thanks for the sincere shares. Welcome newcomers!

I find it interesting how this Tradition carries Tradition One to another level. I am referring specifically to that part of Tradition One which essentially says that individual welfare comes in a close second to group welfare. Here, of course, the welfare of the individual group comes in second to the welfare of other AA groups.

This fundamental principle of AA is also spoken of in the literature with the comments that the second worst thing one can do is interfere in the spiritual growth of oneself and the worst thing one can do is interefere in the spiritual growth of another.

Interestingly, this fundamental spiritual principle illustrates the reverse side of the coin when considered vis-a-vis our social, cultural, and historical placement of the individual on a pedestal.


Member: Pat B.
Location: Michigan
Date: 5/1/2002
Time: 1:28:21 PM

Comments

Jen K.,

Interesting observations. Dependency and autonomy do not mix well. I've seen the same over the last 15 yrs sober, and yet A.A. survives! At times I needed the "Don't Think" types of groups, as my mental state was confused. At times in my recovery, thinking sober, I was able to grow.

Hang in there!


Member: John H
Location: In., USA
Date: 5/1/2002
Time: 3:37:40 PM

Comments

This is for Jen K from John H an alcoholic. This happens to be my 16th year in the program that has provided continuous sobriety. Have not encountered a group as the one you describe. If I do, I'd most likely turn to other groups for continuing progress and sobriety. We do not have to be servile or scraping. Peace and serenity to you all!


Member: RonS
Location: Andover Ohio
Date: 5/2/2002
Time: 3:14:08 PM

Comments

HI I'm Ron an alcholic I was reading Jen K's thing and you know I have seen that and I have seen new comers run for the hills and never come back but with that attitude that they had that meeting died with it's members and we opened another meeting with great sucess for the new comer and retreads like me.I have nothing against old timers ok I love em they are my inspiration...but what is that saying principles before personalities maybe we need to re read the big book and go back to basics and thats to help one another and not let out ego's get in the way..what is that othere thing about ego edge God out...today is a new time we have people who don't drink but do drugs and no where in the big book does it say no drug addicts. This is all about back to basics and that is helping one another no matter what thats how we survive out here is helping one another and I do believe people know we are out here and willing to help and it's good we attract rather then promote well I rambled enough and maybe not on the whole subject but Jen K hit a nerve in what she wrote and has seen..thanks


Member: Bill H.
Location: Orland Park, IL
Date: 5/2/2002
Time: 6:57:45 PM

Comments

Hi all -- my name is Bill, I'm alcoholic, but sober today because of God's grace, this fellowship and the twelve steps. Jen, I'm fortunate to live in the Chicago area and can tell people to try another meeting if a meeting carries any other message than recovery through the twelve steps. There are thousands weekly. My original home group focused only on the steps and almost everybody that was a member of that group is still sober today or has passed away a sober member of the fellowship. I just celebrated 22 years. My current home group is very similar to that original one and has a few of it's members that have switched to this one. Our group started to lose focus as members tried to inflict their own version of recovery rather than that of the Big Book and the steps. The good groups are out there, keep looking.


Member: Linda C.
Location: Winnipeg
Date: 5/2/2002
Time: 11:50:47 PM

Comments

Hi. My name is Linda and I am an alcoholic. Tradition four states: Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.

The long form of this tradition is found on page 565 in the Alcoholics Anonymous book("Big Book".) It states; "With respect to its own affairs, each A.A. group should be responsible to not other authority than its own Conscience. But when its plans concern the welfare of neighboring groups also, those groups ought to be consulted. And no group, regional committee, or individual should ever take any action that might greatly affect A.A. as a whole without conferring with the trustees of the General Service Board. On such issues our common welfare is paramount."

My understanding of this tradition is that each group can choose to run their group the way they want to, as long as it does not affect the principles and guidelines of A.A. as a whole. An A.A. group can use the Serenity Prayer and the Lord's Prayer at their meetings or they can choose not to. These decisions should be made by all members in the group at a group conscious meeting. All members new and old have a right to vote at these meetings. These decisions should be made by the group, not by a few individuals. In the preamble it states that, "the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking." Our common welfare must come first or our groups will surely die. And without A.A. groups We will die.


Member: barb b
Location: mn
Date: 5/3/2002
Time: 12:33:56 PM

Comments

I just want to comment on Jen K.'s dilema. Wow! what a home group you got involved with. I have been a sober aa member for 26 years, and around here we have the KISS program, keep it simple stupid. I can't believe that your fellow members nit pick about what way to hang a slogan sign. I think the most important bond we as members must remember is that we are all trying to stay sober for 1 more day, and if we can do that and find a bit of serenity and happiness along with our sobriety, then we are truly blessed by the great spirit, our Higher Power.


Member: Anonymous Alcoholic
Location: 2689 Ridgecrest Drive
Date: 5/5/2002
Time: 8:15:29 AM

Comments

I like this tradition. Each group can be slightly different than other groups. I like that variety.

At my first AA meeting someone suggested that I go to 60 meeting in 60 days. I have never heard anyone suggest that since, it's always 90 in 90. Maybe they took one look at me and decided I couldn't make it for 90 days so they 'reduced my sentence'. But I did end up going to 90 meetings in 90 days. And besides giving me a firm foundation for my sobriety, I did notice that some meetings were more to my liking than others. I still go to a lot of meetings, but I know that if I am not getting what I need at a particular meeting then there are plenty of others to choose from (I am lucky I live in a metropolitan area that has over 1,000 AA meetings per week.) Thanks.


Member: Anonymous Alcoholic
Location: 2689 Ridgecrest Drive
Date: 5/5/2002
Time: 8:16:22 AM

Comments

I like this tradition. Each group can be slightly different than other groups. I like that variety.

At my first AA meeting someone suggested that I go to 60 meeting in 60 days. I have never heard anyone suggest that since, it's always 90 in 90. Maybe they took one look at me and decided I couldn't make it for 90 days so they 'reduced my sentence'. But I did end up going to 90 meetings in 90 days. And besides giving me a firm foundation for my sobriety, I did notice that some meetings were more to my liking than others. I still go to a lot of meetings, but I know that if I am not getting what I need at a particular meeting then there are plenty of others to choose from (I am lucky I live in a metropolitan area that has over 1,000 AA meetings per week.) Thanks.