Member: Sito T.
Location: Puerto Rico
Date: 27 Apr 2003
Time: 17:56:43

Comments

Hello Everyone, my name is Sito, and I am an alcoholic. I don't really read that the traditions that much which I should. I went ahead and read tradition 4. What I got from it is that each group can operate freely as long as AA is not affected as a whole, and the group should not seek self interest for example an AA center which can create confusion and deter us from our primary purpose.


Member: Larry M.
Location: Texas, USA
Date: 28 Apr 2003
Time: 20:08:36

Comments

Hi, I'm Larry, a grateful recovering alcoholic-sober today only by the grace of God and the miracle of Alcoholics Anonymous. Our great freedom in AA, with no rules or regulations has always appealed to me. The humorus statement that Bill W, our co-founder quoted, "Don't take yourself so damned seriously" when he wrote about this tradition in "The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions" has always been a favorite with many of us. It is great that we can stumble repeatedly in life, pick ourselves up and learn to practice humility with this tradition, by that I mean that we don't think less of ourselves, but we think of ourselves less-by learning to consider other peoples needs, but still enjoying great group freedom. Thanks for allowing me to share my experience with you.


Member: Vee
Location: Midwest
Date: 29 Apr 2003
Time: 07:12:13

Comments

I love this Tradition; as a matter of fact I love anything that saves paperwork. Imagine what it would be like if we had to have the same rules in all AA meetings. It would probably take years just to write the rules. And then to enforce them among alcoholics would surely lead to disaster. But to have a "group conscience" is warm and fuzzy to me and as people come and go in our mobile world this can bend and mold to fit us all. We as groups go by the suggestions of the BB and 12x12 because they are excellent suggestions, not iron-clad laws. They were not fools who wrote these books. I'll keep coming back simply because I like it here.


Member: SuzyQnj
Location: NJ
Date: 29 Apr 2003
Time: 11:30:10

Comments

i like how the Traditions can apply to me personal life as well as AA as a whole. Every group and myself personally, has the right to be wrong. No AA police in here! SuzyQ


Member: BIKERBABE
Location: hellishellping
Date: 29 Apr 2003
Time: 13:23:04

Comments

tradition 4: each group, can make its own decisions, i heard that in the states some groups elect to say the "our father prayer" at the end of the meeting, rather than the serenity prayer, This is baffling to me, because our preamble says we are not affiliated with religion, sect, denomination etc. and then it makes me wonder, this "non affiliation" aa proffesses... that must be only within the rooms? correct? so then why in the rooms of aa is it not breaking tradition to say the "our father who art in.... isnt that a mixed message? or is it just that we got some religious types in aa who maybe don't want to affiliate us, but perhaps just wanna pray different? look man. if i was gonna sell my harley i wouldn't bring it to a tupperware party.


Member: Michael E
Location: Denver
Date: 29 Apr 2003
Time: 22:57:36

Comments

BIKERBABE, ...oh, my name is michael, and I am an alcoholic.. AA was founded on religious principles, specifically the New Testament of the Bible. The 12 steps come from this book, specifically the book of James. The early AA founders did not want to get distracted by issues of doctrine - debates between the Lutherans, Baptists, Catholics, etc., so the steps were written and "God as you understand" was added. So, saying the Lord's Prayer is quite appropriate. However, I do agree that the primary purpose of AA is to stay sober and help other alcoholics achieve sobriety. But as thousands of us in the program know, the key to staying sober is to rely on a higher power and work the steps. God bless, keep coming back it works!


Member: Leah P.
Location: Rochester, MN
Date: 30 Apr 2003
Time: 14:43:11

Comments

about the Lord's Prayer. In the book "Out devlish alcoholic personalities" there is a chapter devoted on this prayer and how it applies to alcoholics. and if you don't like the prayer... DON'T SAY IT I don't know much about the traditions, but they were created to promote group unity. and I'm glad there are no rules in AA. Rebellious by nature, if there were any rules, I would have been given the boot long time ago, that's it. This is a little "God-moment" for me to study this traditon tonight


Member: IVA D
Location: CHICAGO
Date: 30 Apr 2003
Time: 21:06:08

Comments

i'm just tunig in to this meeting. I HAVE 9 YEARS SOBRIETY WOULD LOVE TO JOIN IN. UNDERSTAND 4TH TRADITON. WITH WORKING KNOWLEDGE. PLEAE HELP.


Member: IVA D
Location: CHICAGO
Date: 30 Apr 2003
Time: 21:06:24

Comments

i'm just tunig in to this meeting. I HAVE 9 YEARS SOBRIETY WOULD LOVE TO JOIN IN. UNDERSTAND 4TH TRADITON. WITH WORKING KNOWLEDGE. PLEAE HELP.


Member: IVA D
Location: CHICAGO
Date: 30 Apr 2003
Time: 21:08:39

Comments

i'm just tunig in to this meeting. I HAVE 9 YEARS SOBRIETY WOULD LOVE TO JOIN IN. UNDERSTAND 4TH TRADITON. WITH WORKING KNOWLEDGE. PLEAE HELP. MAKE MEETINGS AT LEAST 2X WEEKLY DUE TO HOUSE FULL OF TEEN-AGERS. BUT WOULD LOVE TO JOIN DISCUSSION GROUPS PARTICULAR ON STEPS AND TRADITIONS. DAUGHTER HELPED TO LOG ON


Member: AnilG
Location: Mt vernon,IL
Date: 01 May 2003
Time: 09:24:10

Comments

I am an alcoholic I like this tradition because it brings some uniformity independence and freedom to the purpose of aa and its fellowship.I have had a chance to attend aa meetings in other countries there content is the same everywhere but the way they maintain there autonomy is excellent some do there meetings in temples some in churches some in townhall some at house rotary clubs ect It gives the workers to be flexible not change the purpose but still operate succesfully free of charge . thanks to aa and alanon. I would not be here if there was any charge or cost involved.


Member: Melanie
Location: Akron, Ohio, USA
Date: 01 May 2003
Time: 12:46:42

Comments

Hi All, I'm Melanie, an alcoholic. BikerBabe: I'm not a Christain, but I say the Lord's Prayer with my AA group here. The words express to me just what I believe AA has given me. A Father(mother, kind spirit) in heaven, whose will I will try to do, who provides for me all the good things in my life(daily bread), who forgives and teaches forgiveness, and removes my desire for drink(temptation) for He(She,It) has the power that I lack. Tradition four allows our groups to choose such a prayer, and probably has helped AA to be so acceptable to people of different cultures, languages, religions and different times. Wow! What would we do without flexibility?! IVAD: This is not a live discussion. You can post and read comments any time. You might try E-AA.com or ask around at the coffee pot page for other live discussions. Welcome! Peace and blessings to ALL!


Member: john m
Location: brooklyn
Date: 01 May 2003
Time: 17:35:42

Comments

hello everyone, my name is john and i'm an alcoholic. tradition four, for me, is all about ego. every group can and should run their group the way the group wants to - not the way an individual in the group wants to run it. and every group can and should run only itself - not any other group, and certainly not aa altogether. for me, this balances out a kind of collective participation with a collective powerlessness, and it sets up a great environment for finding sobriety and staying sober. i think all of the traditions, when we're applying them as they were intended, will do that: create an environment that will foster sobriety. and just like if we don't do the steps we're not working on our personal sobriety, i think if a group isn't paying attention to the traditions, they're not working on creating a sober environment to support its members. i'm thankful and blessed to find just exactly that sober environment in it's own unique kind of way in every room i go to that pays attention to the traditions - including this one! i hope everyone has a lovely 24.


Member: bikerbabe
Location: hellishelping
Date: 02 May 2003
Time: 11:21:40

Comments

hey all, thanx for your shares, especially John m. So i understand the tradition, but like i said, OUR PREAMBLE SAYS.... ((WE ARE NOT AFFILIATED WITH POLITICS ORGANIZATION AND DENOMINATION. BUT I GUESS ITS OKAY TO SAY "OUR FATHER" RIGHT? I MEAN IF A GROUP HAS A CERTAIN PATRIARCAL LEANING THEY COULD ALL VOTE TO SING "O CANADA" OR THE US NATIONAL ANTHEM? RIGHT? THAT WOULDN'T HURT AA AS A WHOLE RIGHT? AND IF I'M A NEWCOMER, IN THE ROOM, ((COMING THERE TO GET RELIEF FROM ALCOHOLISM))) I WON'T BE AT ALL CONFUSED BY HEARING THE PREAMBLE AT THE BEGINING OF THE MEETING, AND THEN THE LORDS PRAYER AT THE END OF IT, OR EVERYONE SINGING 'O CANADA.... GREAT! SUPER! THANX. I AM GOING TO A TUPERWARE PARTY TODAY TO SELL MY HARLEY... I LOVE ALCOHOLICS.


Member: Ted U
Location: MD
Date: 02 May 2003
Time: 14:55:41

Comments

My home group interpets Tradition 4, by not signing court slips. We encourage those with slips to ask the person sitting next to them to sign it, rather than putting the slip in the basket or giving it to the secretary. Our group devolved into allowing cross talk. Know what we're a small group and it isn't so bad. Our group still studies the Big Book for open meetings and 12 n 12 for closed meetings. This unique flavor emphasizes what Tradition 4 is all about in my book.


Member: Kerry C
Location: Texas
Date: 03 May 2003
Time: 01:08:28

Comments

Hi Kerry an alcoholic. Thanks for this topic it prompted me to read a little about the Traditions. Bill W. used the following as an example in an article he wrote for the Grapevine in March 1948. "For example, an AA group could, if it wished, hire a paid preacher and support him out of the proceeds of a group nightclub. Though such an absurd procedure would be miles outside our Tradition, the group's "right to be wrong" would be held inviolate. We are sure that each group can be granted, and safely granted, these most extreme privileges. We know that our familiar process of trial and error would summarily eliminate both the preacher and the nightclub. Those severe growing pains which invariably follow any radical departure from AA Tradition can be absolutely relied upon to bring an erring group back into line. An AA group need not be coerced by any human government over and above its own members. Their own experience, plus AA opinion in surrounding groups, plus God's prompting in their group conscience would be sufficient. Much travail has already taught us this."


Member: bikerbabe
Location: hellishelping
Date: 03 May 2003
Time: 21:08:46

Comments

OUR MOTHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN... HALLOWED BE THE WOMAN WHO HAS THE HUMILITY TO SEE HOW SELF ASSUMING IT IS TO DECIDE GOD IS OF COURSE FEMALE, JUST BECAUSE SHE IS. NOW; I WONDER, HAS ANYONE EVER HEARD A MAN EXPRESS HUMILITY ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE IS ANOTHER SPECIES CALLED 'THE FEMALE HUMAN BEING' AND YET HE SUPPOSES GOD IS IN THE MASCULINE. HAS ANY ONE EVER HEARD OF SELFCENTEREDNESS? women here, how would you feel if you always refered to god as she or her? i personally address god in the masculine even though i am a woman, only because i've been conditioned, and i can't seem to break the habit. THE GREAT LYING BIBLE DID IT AGAIN. ps.. expressing one's opinion is not always anger. oh and thank god we all have the right to be wrong.


Member: bikerbabe
Location: hellishelping
Date: 03 May 2003
Time: 21:09:00

Comments

OUR MOTHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN... HALLOWED BE THE WOMAN WHO HAS THE HUMILITY TO SEE HOW SELF ASSUMING IT IS TO DECIDE GOD IS OF COURSE FEMALE, JUST BECAUSE SHE IS. NOW; I WONDER, HAS ANYONE EVER HEARD A MAN EXPRESS HUMILITY ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE IS ANOTHER SPECIES CALLED 'THE FEMALE HUMAN BEING' AND YET HE SUPPOSES GOD IS IN THE MASCULINE. HAS ANY ONE EVER HEARD OF SELFCENTEREDNESS? women here, how would you feel if you always refered to god as she or her? i personally address god in the masculine even though i am a woman, only because i've been conditioned, and i can't seem to break the habit. THE GREAT LYING BIBLE DID IT AGAIN. ps.. expressing one's opinion is not always anger. oh and thank god we all have the right to be wrong.