Member: Jenn P.
Location: Poconos, PA
Date: 3/31/2002
Time: 9:59:01 AM
Happy Holiday! Jenn Here- an alcoholic who is happy joyous and free as a result of this Program. The Third Step is pivotal for me. When I got to AA, I was already on the third step, or so I thought! (lol)I knew I was powerless and my life was unmanageable, that's why I asked for help , and I knew I was nuts and believed in a Higher Power (that's how I got here). So gimme that third step please! I found some who said slow down, but I also heard that in step three, the decision was just that, a decision. Did I want to go on My way, which had got me here (and if I continued on it would get me drunk again), or did I want to go the AA way, and go forward with the rest of the steps,which would give me sobriety and a life I could not imagine? It didn't seem like a hard decision to me. I was hurting so much anything was preferable to the life I was living. I can't do this step perfectly, you said, and I didn't. But I tried, and still do. I have become willing to turn things over much sooner than I used to. I look for the answer to my problems in the steps and with the help of my Higher Power and a Sponsor and AA friends, not in the bottom of a bottle anymore! It was the best decision I ever made. Thak you all for helping me stay sober and letting me share my gratitude today.
Member: Kelly Z
Location: Canada
Date: 3/31/2002
Time: 11:33:15 AM
Hi Kelly here, i am an alcoholic... I was raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses...God was pounded into my head. When I left at 18, I had an intense hatred for God and everything I knew him to stand for. When I left the religion, i lost everything and everyone who had ever meant anything to me, and i blame god. So, my question is, how can i find a higher power of my understanding, when my understanding is he is a cruel and heartless god, who put us on this earth to suffer until we die? It's more than 20 years since i left the JW organization, but i still have a hell of a lot of anger and i honestly don't know if there is a higher power out there for me. I know i do long for some kind of something "spiritual", but my sense of spirituality is completely warped. I guess it may be a case of mind over matter - i just don't know how i can put faith in something that completely devastated my life, made me start over, and it has never been the same. Can anyone help me to renew my faith and to see god in a different light, other than my ultimate betrayer?
Sober forever, Kelly
Member: Lessa E
Location: Chicago
Date: 3/31/2002
Time: 1:30:11 PM
Morning, folks, Lessa E here, grateful recovering alcoholic.
I had a real tough time arriving at this step. Step two - this 'coming to believe' was a toughie. I kept confusing the unforgiving, punishing God I was brought up to believe in with this HP that the program referred to. I could conceive that a number of things were more powerful than me - I mean I had my alcoholism as proof of that. But that anything could relieve me of it.....oh, that took a long time. (As for the God I grew up with, I thought that all bad things in my life were His judgement against me, which I know now is not true.)
I can remember the day when I REALLY did Step 3. It was a hot day last July. I'd been back in the fellowship over a year, but had been white knuckling it. I had been laid off from my job and was on my way to visit a financial planner to consolidate retirement plans and discuss how to move forward. I passed a liquor store on my way and decided I'd stop on the way home and buy something - ANYTHING - to get rid of the hopeless feeling inside of me. On my way back home, I stopped at the liquor store. Our 'effective heat' index here in Chicago was over 100 degrees that day. And, as I opened the door into the dark, air-conditioned, cool place that would sell me my bottle of magic 'make-it-go-away' juice, something inside me said, "I give up". That was my 3rd step prayer: "I give up." I turned away from the door and haven't thought about taking a drink since then.
Once I was able to do this - to give up the control of my life (well, I DO have to work at it - some days more than others - *G) I was able to move forward with my life, with the steps and with my faith. And, I thank my HP whom I now know as a kind and merciful God that He didn't give up on me through all this. More, I was the one turning my back on Him, on my family and friends, and trying to run things on my own.
Grateful for another sober 24 hours.
lessa_e@hotmail.com
Member: Margaret M
Location: Indiana
Date: 3/31/2002
Time: 2:41:02 PM
Hi my name is Margaret, and I am an alcoholic and addict. You're not in an unusual situation Kelly, I grew up with a Catholic background on one side, and a Church of Christ background on the other. For about six years I considered myself a "spiritual" atheist and when I got into the program I looked at the second and third step and thought it'd be impossible for me to get past them.
Five years and a two slips later I finally got it. It was the word "God" that scared me more than anything. I thought it had to be some big man sitting in the sky that was going to punish me for my sins - you know all that stuff our parents taught us. That isn't what the AA is asking for though. AA is asking for me to believe in a power greater than myself. I spent about an hour looking over some mountains in Arizona, when I realized that isn't hard to swallow.
I certainly don't contain the limit of the power and will in the universe. When I simply meditate and take in the world I know it. My interpretation of Higher Power was derived from many different belief system because this mix fits me. To be a little less vague, my sponsor asked me to write a list with what I would want my got to be, she specified for me to make it simple. I just wrote two words, "unconditionally loving". When I told her that she said "there you go, that's what you're Higher Power is."
It is as simple as that, and whatever or however I chose to communicate with my Higher Power is completely up to me beyond the basics. My impression of God changes everyday, and that works for me. Believe you me, I am also constantly angry with She/He, and that is fine too.
I guess the only thing I really wanted to say is that nothing is set in stone except the basics - the steps, and my interpretation of my Higher Power. I'm not dealing with people here, I'm dealing with something bigger than that.
Member: Mary P
Location: Maine
Date: 3/31/2002
Time: 7:18:41 PM
Member: Sarah
Location: NW USA
Date: 3/31/2002
Time: 10:25:04 PM
"Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understand Him."
I asked my sponser(who had 20+ years) about "God". Her reply was try using the healing you hear and see at the A.A. meetings.
So now I call my "God" the "Healing Power"
When I was a small child I understood "God" as a "Healing Power", but as I grew older the "World and it's people" convinced me "God" was the "Winner Power", that the rule of the "world" was the "rule of the winner".
"A.A. and it's people" thru the experience, strength and hope shared has given me the ability once again to understand "God" as a "Healing Power".
Thanks one and all.
Member: Jim P.
Location: PA
Date: 4/1/2002
Time: 12:29:59 AM
I related to all the comments posted thus far relating to the 3rd step. My concept of a HP has changed dramatically over these past 3 years of sobriety. Talking openly & honesty w/others in AA about how I felt about God helped a lot. I also had to work on not so much trying to identify God; but rather to keep it simple & move in that "good orderly direction." Quite simply, I make "the decision" every day when I wake up & decide to move in this direction. My positive thoughts & actions, in turn, become God's will for me. The positive thoughts can come in the form of prayer & meditation & the positive actions come in the form of doing the next right thing. But I must never forget the "we" in this step because God works through people most of all in my life. The longer I stay sober, the clearer this becomes. Thanks to all in AA & God for making this possible!
Member: Real fkn' man
Location: Yourtown
Date: 4/1/2002
Time: 9:42:20 AM
The ONLY step we need to get rtght 100% is the 13TH STEP! Hey....any of you HOES got any extra condoms. You can use the used ones to drink coffee out of! HAHA
Member: COG
Location:
Date: 4/1/2002
Time: 2:37:54 PM
step 3 is in my opinion,one of the most understood of the steps.regardless of what bill may have said in the 12 n 12, step 3, by its own words IS ONLY a decision. i challenge anyone out there to explain how "YOU"(TURN OVER ANYTHING WITH A SIMPLE DECISION)which is All 3 is.It is sad to see how the FELLOWSHIP has bamboozeled most of it,s members either intentionaly or just out of ignorance. either way, stuck on 3 or any other step: whyitworked@yahoo.com IT IS A SIMPLE PROGRAM
Member: proud canadianw
Location: worldwide
Date: 4/1/2002
Time: 4:15:52 PM
to the REAL FKn MAN iwould like to wear a condom and run it down your damn throat maybe you could turn gay and it would shut your god damn mouth you ASSHOLE
Member: Mr. Serenity ( Ken T)
Location: Rochester NY
Date: 4/1/2002
Time: 4:46:18 PM
Greetings loved ones, Ken here and I am powerless over drugs and alcohol. I am in my third attempt at sobriety and today is my three week anniversary!(clap,clap) Finding and accepting a higher power is the most difficult thing for me. It seems to change for me everyday. Believing then not believing. Then it occured to me I do not have to believe in one thing. On any given day my higher power can be anything I choose it to be, my cat, GOD, my 24 hour coin. I just have to accept that what I have been thinking for myself is wrong, and have to ask guidance from another. My brain is sick right now and as long as I do not give in to my own thoughts and fears it will be ok. Throughn time and listening to others that are in AA "MY" higher power will always save me no matter what it may be at that moment.
Member: Stew E
Location: FL
Date: 4/1/2002
Time: 5:05:19 PM
To Kelly in Canada, I ask is it was God or the PEOPLE in the JW religion that let her down? Or could God have been the One that gave you the srength to leave the JW (and/or) the ill-advised people?
I guess I'm asking if you are placing blame where it belongs? Might that be where the credit belongs?
To the the matter of a higher power vs. people, that higher power might be the people (fellowship) for some.
God bless!
Member: Adam H.
Location: Nagano, JAPAN
Date: 4/1/2002
Time: 7:02:19 PM
Adam, alcoholic. When I first got to this step, my sponsor wanted to say the Thrid Step Prayer with me on our knees. I was not warm to this idea at all...I wanted nothing to do with God, and I feared that I had chosen a religious fanatic for a sponsor. I did it anyway, and learned something very interesting about the Third Step as a result...that the key word in the step is CARE. We turn our will and our lives over to the CARE of God as we understand him. God as I understood him then was a Group Of Drunks (G.O.D.) whom I knew could help me get sober. I didn't realize how much they CARED about my desire to get sober until I realized that the one member of the Group Of Drunks that I had asked to help me obviously CARED enough to pray with me when I couldn't beileve and then guide me through the rest of the Steps so that eventually I would believe. My sponsor CARED about me when I said I wanted to get sober...AA CARED me when I said I wanted to get sober. The great effect I felt as a result of doing this step was gratitude that AA CARES about drunks like me and a wholehearted desire to trust that CARE and allow AA to guide me to a new life.
Grateful to be sober...and that AA still cares about those who want to get sober.
Member: Anonymous
Location: shy why die
Date: 4/1/2002
Time: 7:32:46 PM
A shy shy shy, kinda worrie why..Time a dime dime and a tie tie tie, sty why why! Jesus is Lord, Hi why why, sigh die die, I'm a why why why; Stime a dime dime, Side a wide died and tied awhile ago, and pied why die: shy why my, Side awhile ago...
Member: tie
Location:
Date: 4/1/2002
Time: 7:34:38 PM
Shake a Day Day...
Member: Jack B
Location: Palo Alto, Pa
Date: 4/2/2002
Time: 3:56:51 AM
Hi, I am Jack, a real alcoholic. I keep this program as simple as possible, step three for me is simply giving my greatest will, the will to drink over to God and don't take it back no matter what. I also need to turn my alcoholic lifestyle, Bar Stool Mentality, over to god and try a new way of life. In short for me step three is a commitment to God and the twelve step program of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Member: Stephanie
Location: New York
Date: 4/2/2002
Time: 12:11:49 PM
Hi,Stephanie Alcoholic/Addict. Kelly Z this is tough one for me also, what works for me right now is whenever it says God I change it to higher power."As we understood him". Always went to Sunday School, Church ect. growing up and I lost alot of faith somewere along the line. I hope to get back that faith in my higher power but for now I'm just keeping simple and doing what works for me.
Member: Norman C.
Location: Reading, PA
Date: 4/2/2002
Time: 1:13:29 PM
Hi, I'm Norm, a grateful alcolic. The third step is one that gave me some problems because I was not intelligent enough to realize what it meant. I tried to make it very deep and difficult, but eventually came to realize that the inportant thing was to realize that God did not want me to drink. This is an odd step. I knew one man, Chuck, who would tell anyone at any time that for him his higher power was the group. He adamantly insisted he was an atheist. However he was a very spiritual individual. He died sober, trying to save another person when the well drilling rig he operated touched some electric wires.
Member: Les
Location: San Diego
Date: 4/3/2002
Time: 12:19:50 AM
Step One was an easy one for me because my life was a complete shambles by the time I arrived in AA. Step Two was almost impossible at the time, because I was an atheist. As I look back now I realize that a particular AA meeting I attended was my Higher Power. Step Three, of course, names that Power and seemed impossible. AA members who had arrived before me told me to pretend that I believed in God and go ahead with the Steps if, indeed, I wanted to stay sober. So, I did. First I thought long and hard about taking the Step and decided I was ready to do whatever it took to stay sober. Following the direction in the book, "Alcoholics Anonymous," I said the suggested prayer. It was explained quite clearly by another AA that I did it wrong and what I should do is get a sponsor to help me understand the directions in the Big Book. Well, of course, the Step should be taken with another person and so I asked my wife and she and I did it together. We got on our knees and said the Third Step prayer together, just like Adam H. did with his sponsor. I did get a sponsor, when it was obvious that I could not really understand how to do the Forth Step and we did the Third together.
We are told clearly that a Third Step not followed immediately by the Fourth will have little lasting effect. I suspect this is because, as was previously mentioned by Jenn P., the Third Step is a decision. That decision must be followed by the rest of the program if it is to work.
With the Third Step and all the rest I've followed as closely as I can the directions given in the Big Book. This is very important to me, because it was my own way instead of the right way of doing things that destroyed my life.
I've continued to say the Third Step Prayer each day since that first time. It is part of my daily ritual upon awakening and I'm still sober after 5,400 days. What a miracle. Incidentally, I now have a deep, abiding faith in God as I understand God.
Member: ChuckM
Location: Alberta
Date: 4/3/2002
Time: 3:01:29 AM
I'm Chuck, an alcoholic
I used alcohol to change my feelings. The only way I can change feelings is by changing my thinking. Therefore alcohol changed my thinking.
The reason I needed to change my thinking was because I had the wrong idea about things in my life.
Wrong thinking is my problem. Big Book says that my problem centers in my mind. That's why step 2 says I must be restored to sanity, right thinking. It says I can't do it my self, I need a higher power called God. I must decide to stop doing things my way (that's why I'm here) and do them God's way, step 3.
I was screwed because I believed that God was my enemy and was causing all my troubles. Because of my wrong thinking maybe my believe about God was wrong.
In the Big Book, before the 3rd step prayer it suggests that my relationship with God is like a loving parent with a child. My father was no influence in my life but then I thought about my son and daughter. My desires, wishes, hopes and dreams were all exremely positive. I wanted them to be happy, joyous amd free.
I realized that this is the correct concept of God. My old concept was wrong thinking given to me by people who didn't know any better.
Now I can trust God to give me directions so as to end up happy, joyous and free. His direction at step 3 is to do the rest of the steps. It works. Kelly, I hope you can get this new concept of God.
Peace and Serenity
Member: Margie
Location: L.I.
Date: 4/3/2002
Time: 8:24:17 AM
Hi all, my name is Margie, I am an alcoholic/ garbage head...Before I came into recovery I had no God in my life. Thought all who believed where a bunch of pansies. After working the steps, paticularly 4 and 5, i felt the presence of a power greater than myself flow with in me. For me, my HP, is a Spirit that has always been in me, was to clogged up inside of me with fear and resentments! My ego, not getting it's way for so many years, wanted to fight and claw till it had it's way!! Found out it can never win, has nothing to ofer anyone. Once doing my steps the first time,the gate was opened, God was able to emerge within me, through me and out to others. I see the spiritual power flow from others who work the steps, stay true to themselves with honesty,openmindedness, and willingness. The steps, I beleive, are meant to all flow together. Not one at a time but all at once! It is made a decision, not a life changing move that will constipate me in anyway. It will come naturally when the steps are practiced everyday. More will be revealed in our journey of knowing who we really are, in the likeness of our creator,when we are open and willing. It is with us always, our will and all of it's oneness, will constantly block us from the universal spirit if we don't stay connected by listenting to others and sharing what we have learned. The ego/will want all to bow to it's demands. The third step simply states that it is a decision to turn our stubborn will over. The steps bring us from selfishness to selflessness in 12 simple thought processes!! Is so simple, my egos like to make everything hard for me because it demands to have it's way,does not want to share, wants to be the almighty one! If we just let go and shut up our ego, life is much easier. Thanks for all of your shares!! Much love to all. Margie
Member: Mary Allen
Location: Austin,MN
Date: 4/3/2002
Time: 11:16:26 AM
Step 3 was concern for me when I first became sober because nobody would tell me what "God" I needed to believe in to belong to A.A. Fortunately I asked and asked until I understood when someone said "God or Higher Power" can be anything you want it to be. I grasped that and tossed out the "Judge" God and believed in a "Nature" God. One who made all the animals and plants in the world and cares for them. Similar to the Native American belief of a Great Spirit.
The second concern I had was with "will" and "lives". What were these and how was I suppose to "turn them over"? Several people shared their ideas which I couldn't grasp. Then a fellow member shared that he changed the words to "thoughts and actions". The light bulb came on and this I could deal with. My thoughts and actions were something I could give to hp and with help make them better.
I am comfortable now when members mention "God". I no longer get defense and want to straighten them out. I talk to my hp as a friend, if I am angry with a friend I let them know.
Member: jackie b
Location: ireland
Date: 4/3/2002
Time: 4:09:22 PM
hello jackie b here and i am an alcoholic from ireland!! good to read you margie and yes when i came into the fellowship i believed in nothing not even myself so god was a no no for me as far as i was concerned he had let me down but i got hope in the rooms and started the program. when it came to step three one day i had it next it was gone then maybe i got it for two days and so on prgress not perfection.then i did my fourth and fifth and it all seemed to come together it was amazing. it was like i really believed there was something there looking out for me i still cant explain it.glad to have found the site could not make a meeting to night. jackie b
Member: John Wesley
Location: Hymn 16,
Date: 4/3/2002
Time: 4:36:16 PM
Happy the souls that first believed, To Jesus and each other cleaved, Joined by the unction from above, In mystic fellowship of love..Meek simple followers of the Lamb, They lived, and spake and thought the same; They joyfully conspired to raise, Their ceaseless sacrifice of praise..With grace abundantly endued, A pure believing multitude, They all were of one heart and soul, And only love inspired the whole..O what an age of golden days! O what a choice, peculiar race! Washed in the Lamb's all=cleansing blood, Anointed kings and priests to God!..Ye different sects who all declare, Lo here is Christ, Or, Christ is here! Your stronger proofs divinely give, And show me where the Christians live..The gates of hell cannot prevail; The church on earth can never fail; Ah, join me to thy secret ones! Ah, gather all thy living stones!..Scattered o'er all the earth they lie, Till thou collect them with thine eye, Draw with the music of thy name, And charm into a beauteous frame..For this the pleading Spirit groans, And crys in all thy banished ones; Greatest of gifts, Thy love impart, And make us of one mind and heart..Join every soul that looks to thee In bonds of perfect charity; Now, Lord, the glorious fullness give, And all in all forever live...
Member: Deana C.
Location: Brentwood
Date: 4/3/2002
Time: 5:23:07 PM
Hi, This is the first time I've been on the AA web. But here goes. Step three for me is getting up in the morning, getting on my knees in the bathroom before getting into the shower and praying that I do only what God would have me do that day. To slow down enough to here the little voice that stops me from saying or doing things that I would later realize was my will and not Gods. And then I say a short prayer asking God to help all the people I know still suffering from this alcohol weather they are dry or not. And if I stuggle throughout the day from fear, anger or frustration, I can stop at any time and find a quiet place to stop and ask for god to help. Even in the beginging if you feel unsure of who your praying to, do it anyway. The result will insure more and more faith in a higher power, "I guarantee it!"
Member: Melissa
Location: Canada
Date: 4/3/2002
Time: 11:19:48 PM
I'm Melissa, alcoholic. When I read step three early in my sobriety I got too hung up on the 'my will and my life over' part and was worried and wondering how I was going to turn myself into some kind of perfect saint- type person. (I had not previously exhibited many saintly qualities.) I don't think I even read and certainly didn't pay any attention to 'made a decision'. Thank God for sponsorship. At the time, I know damn well I was trying to impress my sponsor with my deep knowledge of the steps and be a miracle in my own eyes and a 'perfect' example of a 'perfect' recovery. Sigh. What I didn't and DON'T know about step three would fill several books. I was taught that this step is about making a decision...to do life differently. And that practicing the rest of the steps in order would let me do that. I could complicate a peanut butter sandwich, but I don't mess around with this step anymore. I just try to practice the steps. I remind myself a lot about step three because I don't want to forget that I'm trying to do life differently a little bit at a time on a daily basis. So far it's working. I'm sober and I'm content to be alive and in the world and most of the time I feel....well, joy, and serenity. Sobriety is just a miracle to me. I never, one for moment thought that I could feel this peaceful in my life. Thanks, everyone, for all your comments, and for being here.
Member: Joe P.
Location: Chicago
Date: 4/4/2002
Time: 12:10:19 AM
I'm Joe, and I am an alcoholic. Third step - Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. When I got to the third step with my sponsor, he asked me what my will was, and before I could spout some kind of philosophical BS, he answered the question for me. "Your will is to drink. God's will is that you not drink ... and continue on in the program of alcoholics anonymous". I am grateful for that simplification, as i wanted to make it really complicated. It's that simple a decision - do I go on with the life of drinking, or God's plan as outlined in the twelve steps of AA. Am I in or out? It's just a decision that is asked for in this step. But I was also told that a decision is shallow without following up with the appropriate actions, and the actions required of this step for me are to continue the rest of the steps of the AA program as directed by my sponsor. Today, when I wonder what God's will is for me, I can go back to the 12 Steps, read the Big Book, call my sponsor -and the answer is invariable there. Thanks for all the great comments.
Member: Rich R
Location: Detroit
Date: 4/4/2002
Time: 7:04:01 AM
The third step is the answer to most of my problems. I need to get out of the driver's seat. All the times that my 'personal bus' crashed, I was driving. Every time I let my Higher Power drive, we get to the destination safely! Pretty simple stuff! Thanks.
Member: LB
Location: Troy, Ohio
Date: 4/4/2002
Time: 8:34:39 AM
Hi Everyone!! My name is Linda and I am an alcoholic. Step 3 for me was finally simplified by a lot of AA meetings my first year in the program and a sponsor who "walked the talk". She simply told me to turn my "thinking and my actions" over to a power greater than myself ( all the people of AA at that point) ONE DAY AT A TIME. If I truly think of it as one day at a time, which by the way, is my entire life, than the Third Step did not seem so overwhelming to me. I simply TRY to live a little better life today than I did yesterday, apply the Steps to life situations ( and I have had a few of those in the past 16 years!!!) and changes happen through the "grace of God". Don't know exactly how it works, I just know that it does!! Thanks for being here for this alcoholic today!!
Member: Kjoe
Location: N.Y.S.
Date: 4/4/2002
Time: 10:58:03 AM
Hi All, Kjoe Addict. Alcoholic... "Of Our Understanding"..... But, we all know which, God, Bill Dubya was speaking of... can you say; Jesus? "Him", "He", "His", "Our Father","The Lord's Prayer", "Our Creator"and, so on.......
To some "Carrying The Message" is bringing God to the sinner's... this god... the One and only.
What is working for me is making a decision to stay sober, to stay in the Program and to get Help from other recovering addict's alcoholic's.... a group of drunks... this has worked for many years for me... it's solid and real.. I get good orderly direction from my group of drunks and have stayed clean & sober... which, is the main goal of AA... finding a power greater than ourselfs that will help in our alcohol/drug problem... I am not a bad sinner getting good.... I am a sick alcoholic/ addict getting well.. kjoe
Member: Patti M
Location: Massachusetts
Date: 4/4/2002
Time: 10:46:00 PM
Hi, Patti - Alcoholic. Step 3 for me is comes down to trust and belief. And placing that trust in another being not of myself. But I find for me, by mentally saying to myself here is the situation God do with it as you will, it actually gives me the strength to either act or not act upon the situation and do it rationally (which is a switch from my old behavior of irrational reaction!).
And as a note to Mr. Serenity with three weeks of sobriety, please Keep Coming. You'll learn we are all human and no one needs a title.
Member: sandyc
Location: scotland
Date: 4/5/2002
Time: 5:28:35 AM
Firstly Iād like to say thanks to everyone who has helped me in my struggle with Step 3. The second step involved me in accepting AA as a higher power - not something which is sentient or created the universe - simply a body of knowledge and experience and people which could help me to do what I could not do by myself. That higher power has meant, among other things, I can accept I am an alcoholic, learn how to avoid drinking a day at a time, stop being quite so dishonest and admit to having been such a self-centred and destructive person. But then Step 3 comes along and an abstract has to change into God. (Forget about Īas I understand Himā because that was added as a Īget outā so the program could appeal to people of all faiths.) Weāre talking about a Being who created the universe and controls it. Nowhere in the Big Book is the possibility of there not being a God - all the atheists and agnostics eventually have that spiritual awakening and those who donāt are condemned to an alcoholic hell. Itās all not very surprising because the founders of AA credited their success in helping drunks mainly to finding God and thatās backed up by Jung and Silkworth. So here I am, stuck in what I suppose is the classic predicament of an AA newcomer - want to believe but just cannnot and feeling sometimes that going forward in the program is impossible unless I can take Step 3 properly. Copping out of AA is not an option because I do need something greater than myself to restore me to sanity (I canāt go back on that). At the end of much mind racing it has to come back to following a Good Orderly Direction and trying to act in ways which I think a God if one exists would want me to. Nobody said AA was going to be easy!
Member: Sue M.
Location: NJ
Date: 4/5/2002
Time: 8:21:30 AM
Man oh man!! I am sober 6 years and have never made a committment to aa...I have 'done' the steps and then...I am done...I am well! LOL...I realize, with the help of a great man who happens to love me...that I am still at step two...insane and need to believe in a power greater than me...boy, is that hard as I have never done it before. Yet, when I drive...I crash and burn to the point of destruction EVERYTIME, all without drinking!! So, now To be at step three...to become willing...finally, now that I am so spiritually sick...I become willing. I am so stubborn and I still cannot figure out why I seem to 'love' pain to the point of it almost destroying me...thanks to me...before I ask for God's help? Thank God that He speaks through others and I am just beginning to hear and become willing. Thank God for AA!
Member: Like It Is!!
Location: Awake-At -the-switch, USA
Date: 4/5/2002
Time: 1:57:39 PM
1) After these things I saw another messenger descending out of heaven,__ having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory. 2) And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying,__ Fallen! Fallen! is Babylon the great, and is made a habitation of demons and a prison of every filthy spirit and a prison of every filthy and hated bird; 3) because by reason of the wine of the wrath of her whoredom have all the nations fallen, for the rulers of the earth with her did commit harlotry, and the merchants of the earth by reason of the power of her lusts waxed rich. 4) And I heard another voice out of heaven, saying__ go ye forth my people out of her,__ that ye may have no fellowship with her sins, and of her plagues that ye may not receive; 5) because her sins were joined together as far as heaven, and God hath remembered her unrighteous deeds. 6) Render ye unto her as she also rendered, and double ye! Yea double! According to her works! In the cup wherein she mixed__ mix unto her twice as much! Rev 18:1-6
ćWith ministers, and the world's religions, I parted right there. When they talked of a God personal to me, who was love, superhuman strength and direction, I became irritated and my mind snapped shut against such a theory. To Christ I conceded the certainty of a great man, not too closely followed by those who claimed Him. His moral teaching most excellent. For myself, I had adopted those parts which seemed convenient and not too difficult; the rest I disregarded. The wars which had been fought, the burnings and chicanery that religious dispute had facilitated, made me sick. I honestly doubted whether, on balance, the religions of mankind had done any good. Judging from what I had seen in Europe and since, the power of God in human affairs was negligible, the Brotherhood of Man a grim jest. If there was a Devil, he seemed the Boss Universal, and he certainly had me.ä Billās Story ö AA Big Book
News article:
Lawsuit Says Church Hid Sex Crimes Fri Apr 5,12:09 PM ET By JAY LINDSAY, Associated Press Writer BOSTON (AP) - His nickname was "Father B," he drove a flashy black convertible, and he seemed to know how to relate to children, including the boys in the Roman Catholic parishes where he was assigned. The late Rev. Joseph Birmingham is also accused of sexual abuse by a growing list of those boys, including 13 who on Thursday joined in a lawsuit against the Boston archdiocese and church officials, including Cardinal Bernard Law. The suit charges the church with covering up Birmingham's sex crimes, shuffling him between six parishes and ignoring parents who told church officials about the abuse. Birmingham, who died in 1989, started in Our Lady of Fatima Parish in Sudbury, Mass., in 1961 before moving to Salem, Lowell and then Boston. He was promoted to pastor of St. Ann's Parish in Gloucester in 1986, then worked at St. Brigid's Parish in Lexington just before his death. The suit said Law tried to silence one victim who told him about Birmingham by laying hands on him and invoking the power of confession never to speak of the matter. The archdiocese issued a statement saying it "is committed to investigating all allegations of abuse in accordance with our policy and providing outreach and counseling support to victims of abuse." At a news conference Thursday, some of Birmingham's alleged victims said he was an engaging priest who joked with them, treating them to ice cream and taking them for rides in his convertible. Eventually, they said, Birmingham would molest them after getting them alone in various ways ÷ such as taking them to the rectory, scheduling just one altar boy for mass, or dropping them off last in the car. "Each one of us would be thinking, 'Which one of us is he going to grab?'" said John Morris of Shelton, Conn., a former altar boy in Salem. The charges of a cover-up are similar to those the church faces in the case of defrocked priest John Geoghan, and attorney Robert Sherman said the numbers of abuse allegations could come close to the 130 boys who said Geoghan molested them. Michael Hogan, 47, made the first accusations against Birmingham last week. He sued the archdiocese, saying Birmingham molested him hundreds of times during the 1960s. The amended suit filed Friday also claims Monsignor John Jennings, who dealt with personnel issues at the archdiocese, rebuffed a group of parents who traveled to Boston in 1970 to tell him that Birmingham was abusing their children. Mary McGee, who led the group, said Jennings told them to be careful not to slander Birmingham. He also refused to warn the pastor at Birmingham's next assignment in Lowell. A call to Jennings, who lives at an assisted living home, was not immediately returned. Thomas Blanchette, who said he was abused by Birmingham when the priest was in Sudbury, said he spoke to Cardinal Law about Birmingham at Birmingham's funeral in 1989. He said Law expressed sympathy, but tried to silence him by invoking the power of confession. Since January, dozens of priests out of more than 47,000 nationwide have been suspended or forced to resign. In Los Angeles, in e-mail messages reported by a radio station and a newspaper, Cardinal Roger Mahony told one of his lawyers that the Los Angeles Archdiocese made a "huge mistake" by failing to turn over three sexual abuse cases involving priests to police. In an e-mail dated March 27, Mahony told his attorney, Sister Judith Ann Murphy, that the diocese should have talked with police detectives about three of the sexual abuse cases. "If we don't, today, 'consult' with the detective about those 3 names, I can guarantee you that I will get hauled into a grand jury proceeding and I will be forced to give all the names, etc." The content of the e-mails was first broadcast Thursday on KFI Radio and later published in the Los Angeles Times. It was not clear how the messages were obtained; church officials reported the incident to the FBI, which was investigating whether Mahony's e-mail had been tampered with. The church's lawyers had sought to prevent the publication of the e-mails, but a judge denied their petition. The Times reported last month that Mahony had removed six to 12 priests accused of wrongdoing dating back as far as 10 years. Archdiocese officials have refused to disclose how many priests were accused. The e-mails suggest there are eight. "If I recall, of the eight priests involved, five have already been reported to local law enforcement agencies," Mahony wrote. "That leaves three." In Ohio, the Diocese of Cleveland said a priest newly accused of molesting a girl in 1980 was found dead Thursday of an apparent suicide. The Rev. Don A. Rooney, 48, was found in his car in a pharmacy parking lot with an apparent head wound. Elsewhere: _ A lawyer for the Archdiocese of Atlanta said the archdiocese has responded to six claims in the past 13 years accusing priests of sexually abusing boys. Court records show payments to settle the cases have exceeded $500,000. _ The Archdiocese of New York said it will appoint a committee to investigate sexual abuse allegations against priests. Under the new policy, claims that are deemed to be well-grounded will be reported to authorities even if the victim does not consent.
Member: Bernie S.
Location: Nova Scotia
Date: 4/5/2002
Time: 10:11:28 PM
My name is Bernie, alcoholic. Looking back, I see that as a child I had a fairly good understanding of someone else's understanding of god. But, I didn't understand him. I followed many roads and I tried many times to gain such an understanding. "A.A.s tread innumerable paths in their quest for faith." Today, I use the word god because it is the only word in the english language that describes the point I am trying to make. Whatever or whoever it was that reached down into that gutter and pulled me out...that was a power greater than me. Ebby said it best in Bill's kitchen..."Why don't you choose your own conception of God?"
Also, a brief word on Tradition 3. It does not matter if we are tall or short, rich or poor, pink or brown, straight or gay; it does not matter. It does not matter who we voted for last year or what kind of car we drive, whether we are willing to listen or just came to make noise; it does not matter. If we have a desire to stop drinking, we can come here. Even troublemakers can be teachers.
Member: John K
Location: St Helens OR
Date: 4/6/2002
Time: 12:16:58 AM
Right on, Bernie. I had a difficult time with step 2, so much so that I kept getting drunk for six years before sobering up. Until I was willing to "choose [my] own concept of God" (as, it was pointed out to me, it is italicized in the Big Book) I could not realize that it was my concept that was screwy, not God. And it was sheer arrogance that kept me from doing this step. I was so convinced that I knew all about God (from my Sunday School and youth groups, which were excellent but I twisted them up), that my mind was closed against the idea of choosing a concept that would work for me. What I learned from doing the exercise was that my God is much bigger than my concept. Having a concept that works enabled me to truly "turn my will and my life over to the care of God as I understood him." You know, I showed up at this site about an hour ago, and after reading all the comments and sharing in these two meetings, I feel much better. It must be true, "the message can be transmitted as well by (e)mail as by word of mouth." Or whatever. I'm glad you guys are still here. I have recently moved to St. Helens, OR from San Jose, CA and have been feeling out of sorts. I know, though, that if I don't violate myself or my integrity, that I feel good. I wish I had logged onto this site sooner. I love you all.
Member: John K
Location: St Helens OR
Date: 4/6/2002
Time: 12:17:12 AM
Right on, Bernie. I had a difficult time with step 2, so much so that I kept getting drunk for six years before sobering up. Until I was willing to "choose [my] own concept of God" (as, it was pointed out to me, it is italicized in the Big Book) I could not realize that it was my concept that was screwy, not God. And it was sheer arrogance that kept me from doing this step. I was so convinced that I knew all about God (from my Sunday School and youth groups, which were excellent but I twisted them up), that my mind was closed against the idea of choosing a concept that would work for me. What I learned from doing the exercise was that my God is much bigger than my concept. Having a concept that works enabled me to truly "turn my will and my life over to the care of God as I understood him." You know, I showed up at this site about an hour ago, and after reading all the comments and sharing in these two meetings, I feel much better. It must be true, "the message can be transmitted as well by (e)mail as by word of mouth." Or whatever. I'm glad you guys are still here. I have recently moved to St. Helens, OR from San Jose, CA and have been feeling out of sorts. I know, though, that if I don't violate myself or my integrity, that I feel good. I wish I had logged onto this site sooner. I love you all.
Member: AnilG
Location: Mt Vernon,IL
Date: 4/6/2002
Time: 10:23:18 AM
I am an alcoholic and an addict I have been sober for over 4 yrs now. Step 3 always reminds me what is it that helped me in the first place turning my will over to God because my life was unmanageble on my own.I thank all AA and ALANON members for keep reminding of this step that Only God can help take care of our Insanity for us of Drinking .
Member: Bill F
Location: Lost Angelese
Date: 4/6/2002
Time: 8:12:13 PM
By age 12 the God of my upbringing had condemned me to hell for all my bad and evil thoughts. And then there was Jack Daniels - a god who accepted my sacrifices, dollars, and took care of all my horrible feelings. And then I had nor more sacrifices to give for Jack and I was all alone. I could sit in a lot of funny positions and contemplate my navel while rubbing a sonorous brass bowl and chanting in a couple of not-understood languages. And I was still alone. A man came to my house and carried me to a small room with a lot of smiling people and I didn't have to be alone anymore. In the course 6,574 days since I quit make offerings to Jack, I have wrestled mightily with finding someone else's God and eventually found my own. My higher power is spiritual and permeates the universe. It does not require sacrifice of animals, vegetables, minerals or even sons. If I pause and listen and do what is in front of me as I see the right, correct, way to do it - I am content and happy. A recovering priest I never met helped me through a tape. "Whatis God's will for us?" He asked. "God's wil for us is to be happy." If I am unhappy I am not doing God's will. When I pause and ask and listen to the spirit of love which is the universe - I remain happy and sober.