Member: Glen H
Location:
Date: 2/25/01
Time: 9:24:38 AM
Tradition 2
Member: jj
Location: s.c.
Date: 2/25/01
Time: 9:28:08 AM
Step 8 was simple but not quite so easy. At least the first time that is. Every inventory I write sheds new insight on who I've become with the help of alcohol. When I was drinking I thought I was only hurting myself. Everybody else just needed to mind there own business. But, I did not live in a bubble, and others were affected. It took an inventory to see my part in the creation of my own misery; and a sponsor to point out how it affected others. Which is why those caring souls seemed to be such a nag. Once I realized this I prayed for the courage to change.(steps 6 & 7) Then I took the next right action by giving a name to those I had long ignored and harmed. (step 8) A man wrapped-up in himself makes for a very small package. Step 8 was the beginning of my gift of love to others and the end of my own self-manufactured misery.
Member: JanP
Location: South Dakota
Date: 2/25/01
Time: 9:58:21 AM
When I first got sober I didn't think I had harmed anyone. But as my thinking got clearer and I started to really look at the 12 steps I realized that I had many amends to make. My hardest amends was to my children and myself. I thought because I was a closet user I had protected them. I was the only one in the closet. I realized that more and more as my sobriety continued. About three months into sobriety I sat down with my children and started to make my amends. I watched there eyes and the tears start. That was when I first realized how my alcholism had affected their lives. I have been sober eight years now and I truly believe Step 8 is a part of my daily life.
Member: Christine C.
Location: Natick, MA
Date: 2/25/01
Time: 11:14:26 AM
It is important to remember that our leaders are people that we meet on an equal footing. They are not our bosses who sign our paychecks and expect us to follow their plan or find another job. They are not our landlords, who expect us to abide by their rules, or bullies who will beat us if we stray from the protection of our friends. Our leaders are the people who have walked a spiritual path before us and are graciously lighting the way for us. There are many paths into and out of sobriety; it helps us to see all these paths, although we cannot follow each of them. So our leaders--the people that we always hope will speak at meetings--guide us, help us, in kindness, but do not insist that their way is the only right way. If you find a path of spirit, you must follow it and show others; and you must realize that it is not the one and only safe path.Love and peace, Christine.
Member: Bill M.
Location: Southeast Georgia-
Date: 2/25/01
Time: 12:28:30 PM
Bill, Alcohoic In my group the trusted servants does most of the work, getting the supplies, seeing that the meeting room is open, making the coffee, nothing real prestigious, but when comes time your sponsor, usually will tell you and there is some satisfaction doing something for nothing, maybe for the first time. The surprise is how much you recieve in return. Come on Christine, the book says "Rarely have we seen a person fail that throughly follows our path. There is no "s" on path. I also found out that when they said "it's a simple program" did not mean "it's an easy program". This is the easier softer way and they wrote it down so that we could follow it. Lots of people get sober that are not in AA, I am sure. I just don't know or hang out with them. I'm thankful for this simple program.today.
Member: Gail
Location:
Date: 2/25/01
Time: 2:21:44 PM
I love this tradition. The first time I heard it I realized that a Higher Power could be expressed through a group. I had never realized that - I had always gotten frustrated with groups. Then when I heard this I realized that there is a point to all the back and forth - G-d is actually revealed in the way things work out with the group. This really helped me in AA and in the rest of my life and I became a lot more patient (or at least a little more patient) with group process. I stopped thinking it was so important to be right. This tradition taught me about being part of. Now I am getting the opportunity to be of service in an email group I belong to. It is a good feeling to be doing something because I am about 1 hour away from any face to face meetings with no car either. So this email group means a lot to me and I appreciate also that they are trusting me since they don't know me except on email and I have not been in the group that long. AA has always been willing to give me a chance and whatever I have done, people have expressed gratitude. For this I am grateful. I've gotten a lot from the ABCs (ashtrays, brooms and chairs) in AA. I'm grateful for the 2nd step. Thanks to everyone who is part of this meeting,
Member: Pam B
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Date: 2/25/01
Time: 2:53:21 PM
I'm Pam, I'm an alcoholic,
In short simple application for me, Tradition 2 means God runs the show, we seek His Will be done & revealed in each matter, we stick to Honesty, Open-mindedness & Willingness remaining open to what God speaks through the people present rather than hanging on to our own views, opinions and what "I think" about it, and the solutions will appear.
In short - we have no leaders, rulers, czars, great i ams, dictators, etc etc that are "running" anything. There is no person "in charge".
The rules and format of each individual group are decided by the members of that group, at the Group Conscience meeting, by what God speaks through each member present as a whole and then voted on.
Those rules & format may differ from one group to another, according to what past problems the group may have encountered and what the needs of each individual group may be.
One group reads the Preamble, How it Works, The Traditions & The Promises at start of each meeting - another may read only the Preamble, How It Works and the Traditions. Another may skip the reading of the Traditions and read The Promises instead.
Or in one meeting, a chair-person has to be at least 90 days clean & sober, in another they may need to be 6 months, in another they may need to have completed doing all 12 Steps, in another they could be sober less than a week.
There are no "rights & wrongs" about these things. Its all according to what God has revealed to resolve any problems and meet the individual needs for each meeting's prime purpose: To carry the message to the alcoholic who still suffers. Doing a great job at it, too - isn't He? Pam
Member: CL
Location: New York
Date: 2/25/01
Time: 5:50:27 PM
This was an interesting experience for me. I had a home group and did a lot of service positions for that group. One day, I realized I felt it was "my" group--that I was in charge. I realized I needed to take a break for a while and go to other meetings. That was good for me and the group. It's always important for me to see that other people have different ways of doing things, and that's okay, too. I'm so glad, by the way, that this on-line group is here!
Member: KimO
Location:
Date: 2/25/01
Time: 9:47:52 PM
I am struggling and am trying to see what I can do I have been sent this link hope it is okay that I am here I Am trying to understand this room and what is going on thanks
Member: DEB
Location: MICHIGAN
Date: 2/26/01
Time: 9:15:03 AM
Hi everybody, my name is Deb, and I am an alcoholic. It has been a long time since I have visited this site, and how comforting to always know that it is here. KIM, a big welcome to you! I hope you keep coming back. I just want you to know that you don't have to struggle. The arms of the fellowship of AA are always extended to comfort you, and help you realize that you are NOT alone. You must share your feelings to heal, and that is a part of what AA is all about. I too, struggled for a very long time(12 years) trying to find the truth about myself. It was there all along, I just refused to acknowledge it. It was easy for me to admit that I had a drinking problem, but accepting it was a long time coming. I now have been sober for 10 months, but I have not done this myself! I finally came to beleive that only God would help me change my world if I so desired. I prayed so hard asking God to guide me in the right direction. He did because I was ready, and most of all willing. Willing to listen, and ready to be taught about how I could possibly overcome these feelings of desperation, lonliness, and self-loathing. I just couldn't take it any more, but I didn't know how to live any other way. If that is how you are feeling Kim, you have come to the right place. Pray to God to just help you through this day, and if you are serious, He will. You then come through the doors of AA, and you will find strength that you have not had in a very long time. We cannot do this alone Kim. Please know that you are not alone ever! God is carring you until you can walk, and the fellowship of AA will love you until you can love yourself!!! And trust me you will. I never knew NOT drinking could make me feel so WHOLE. BUT, I needed a Power bigger than myself(besides alcohol) and I found TWO. One is God, Two is the loving and compassionate arms of alcoholic anonymous! You're life won't be perfect.....BUT you'll remember it! If you want to join a wonderful on-line womans group that I have been a part of for my 10 months sobriety, write back and let me know. These women have kept me sober when I was unable to get to f2f meetings. It's truly a miracle for me. I'll check in later. Until then, don't pick up that first drink, and pray, pray, and then pray some more...Hugs to all Deb
Member: AnilG
Location: Mt Vernon,Illnois
Date: 2/26/01
Time: 12:53:20 PM
AA as a group and God being with the group first welcomed me if it were because of them I would't be sober and could not have seen this new begining of my new life.
The love from the group and unconditional eternal love of god got me what I needed for a long time something that was missing in my life.
Group had been self less and has no greed they are looking for no gains which makes it special I dont ever hesitate to discuss any and all issues inthe group I think these traditions are very helpful in future for us carry them through as our fore fathers did for us.
Member: jj
Location:
Date: 2/26/01
Time: 2:05:35 PM
My sponsor pointed out to me that God may or may not express Himself in the Group Conscience. It's really up to me. If AA speaks with the language of the heart, then I must share with love. Whenever I get caught up in making a point rather than sharing a message of experience, then I've lost my opportunity to help create unity within the group.
Member: bill
Location:
Date: 2/26/01
Time: 8:46:30 PM
i saw god last night,he told me to get a job,but i dont kow what to do.
bill
Member: DEB
Location: MICHIGAN
Date: 2/26/01
Time: 10:11:25 PM
Hi everybody, Deb here, alcoholic. I just wanted to thank you jj. I learned something VERY important from you tonight! Making a point, rather than sharing my experience,,,,,, Well said, and I will remember that ! Thank-you. Hugs to all......deb
Member: Jack B
Location: Palo Alto, Pa
Date: 2/27/01
Time: 2:26:23 AM
Hi I am Jack, a real alcoholic.Step two for me is what holds our home groups together.This is a spiritual movement and so the ultimate authority is the spiritual concept of the group conscience.Its voice is heard when a well informed group gathers to arrive at a decision.From my experience the voice usually comes from the calm old timer, who quietly and patiently sits back and allows the discussion to be held.Then from his vast wisdom, usually the answer is brought forth.This I have always enterpreted as the loving God expressing himself thru the old timer.God speaks to us thru others. Thanks for allowing me to share and God Bless all on our journey in recovery
Member: lulu
Location:
Date: 2/27/01
Time: 12:33:49 PM
my god help . is god
Member: lulu
Location:
Date: 2/27/01
Time: 12:33:51 PM
my god help . is god
Member: Sarah
Location: NW USA
Date: 2/27/01
Time: 1:28:53 PM
This is a very important tradition to my recovery. Once I had a sponser with 20 years, who help me a lot when I was trying to understand the concept of "God" in the third step...she told me to look at the "Healing Power" in the meeting giving everyone healing recovery, giving me healing recovery which I thought so very miraclous at 3 months. I have been to many different meetings with each having their "own personality" but I remember that the group conscience a global group conscience of all AA meetings past, present and future. Thanks one and all for the "Healing Power"!!!
Member: roo
Location:
Date: 2/27/01
Time: 1:42:01 PM
im kind of gay .my name is roo
Member: ROO
Location:
Date: 2/27/01
Time: 5:23:56 PM
BIGFOOTS COMING TO TOWN
RT AND ROO
Member: lu lu
Location: in shitter
Date: 2/27/01
Time: 5:54:35 PM
well i like in the shitter or in all myparts that open want roo and rt to dual team me
Member: Willliam.A.
Location: High-Point.
Date: 2/27/01
Time: 6:09:15 PM
Hello,William,A-alkie.
When do members become leaders,even in this day and time should we forget that sometimes as we remain free from drinking we can sometimes lose track that even before we put the plug in the jug some of us were not good listeners and could not lead a dry horse accross the street to a full bucket of cool water. It sometimes bewailes me to see often some of us try to over do things in the name of the recovery we think we sometimes possess,and look at our material things as a badge of what life and soberiety is all about and start telling folks that God has blessed us with tthese things as a results of our soberiety ,you know the house,the car,the job,wife husband,and the family back because we are now sober and winning at the game of life look what a wonderful thing that has been bestowed upon us for being the greatt person ,soooo---special in gods sight(can you see the little G in the word GOD) even some have returned to the religion of our choice,only to become holier than thou when we get to the A/A,meetings in our area yet in still we wont,cant have the time to pick up a piece of paper,a coffee cup empty an ash tray, clean a coffee pot,come early to set up the meetings to shake hands with the new-comers that have entered after we got all this wonderful stuff after getting sober,since we are a special bunch and we can run things better that any one else... I say to these people that GOD loves me too and the new-comer who may still be looking for a hand up from the terrible life that they may have just ecsaped from hope is what some of them need and maybe not listening to a bunch of know-it- all drunks sitting around trying to fix what is not broken.
Does anyone know of any situations like this in A/A.,ij your group,your area district,ect...
Member: lu-lu
Location:
Date: 2/27/01
Time: 9:27:21 PM
oooooooooohhhhhh my............
lu-lu
Member: Mark W
Location: West Coast
Date: 2/27/01
Time: 11:38:45 PM
A loving God as he may express Himself in our group conscience.... I was fortunate enough to have had a relationship with my Higher Power before the days of my addiction started. I felt a true connection and spiritual relationship that I was able to experience on a nearly daily basis. During my addiction my shame and fear prevented me from looking to God, in fact I turned my back on Him in shame. This prevented me from submitting my life and my will over to His care. These were the darkest days of my life, and what made them so bad was the fact that I was running my own show, I was running my own show and in so doing I was spiraling down into a deep pit of isolation. I spent all of my time using, obtaining, and maintaining the supply of, my drug. This of course left no time to develop and enjoy my relationship with my Higher Power. At the same time I also walled myself off from the ones I love the most, my social relationships, and my professional relationships. The thing that is so amazing to me now is the fact that the day that my drug came into my life I started to do everything wrong, instead of turning this problem over to the will of God, I turned my back on God. The amazing part is that having had such a strong spiritual relationship in the past, the very thing I thought I would give up last in life was in fact the very first thing I did give up, an acute demonstration of my powerlessness over the drug and my addiction. Life is better now, I have over 100 days clean, and my spiritual relationship is once again becoming an intimate part of who I am, something I give value and time to on a daily basis. Thanks for your stories; I learn much about myself from them.
Member: Michael B.
Location: AZ
Date: 2/28/01
Time: 4:38:26 AM
Hi! My name is Michael, and I am a recovering alcoholic and addict, sober today only by the Grace of God and the Fellowship. Welcome newcomers! Thanks to those who genuinely shared!
There is a lot to this Tradition, and most of it has been discussed. However, I would like to add a few comments/caveats related to "a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience."
In my experience, I have witnessed situations in which AA groups have come to quite literally deify the decision of the group conscience, and this is something that especially newcomers and those who have been active in AA for a relatively short period of time need to watch out for.
For one thing, we know from the literature that, in the past, AA group consciences have placed unfair restrictions on who can be a member of their group, which suggests that a loving God does not always express Himself in the group conscience.
One form of this "inviolability" or deification of the group conscience that I have witnessed is when a relatively inexperienced service body uses their group conscience to overrule or undermine the decades of experience that form the bylaws and suggested practices of that service body as it appears in writing or our literature.
Member: Terrence W
Location: Cassis
Date: 2/28/01
Time: 9:01:56 AM
I am in a small village in France. There;s no AA around (and I dont speak French). It is great to read these notes: almost like being at a meeting. I am grateful for the Fellowship, grateful for my sobriety,, and right now Im gtrateful for this website.
Member: Jim K.
Location: West Texas
Date: 2/28/01
Time: 4:06:33 PM
Jim here--alcoholic in recovery.
I actually have very little understanding of this tradition beyond "no one is in charge." I have asked my sponsor many times to teach me about the traditions, and he has (very simply). He says for right now, being so new in Stage II recovery, I need to focus mainly on the 12 steps as living principles. The traditions and concepts will come in time.
I know that Alcoholics Anonymous is the first place I have ever come that I have not been asked to leave. This is the only place I can come today, after nearly a year sober, where I don't have to be accountable to anyone but myself and God. I can come as I am, and feel comfortable that way. It is not this way anywhere else in my life--not at home, at work, in my job, or even civic and volunteer organizations that I belong to. This is a comforting thought, and created a welcome feeling in me that kept me coming back, no matter how often I fell off.
Thank you for allowing me to share with you, and thanks for my sobriety.
Member: SEATTLE SAM
Location:
Date: 2/28/01
Time: 4:25:34 PM
EATHQUAKES SHAKE THE WEST AS PEDICTED........ .............MORE TO COME..........AT 8.0 ON RICHERT SCALE.......................
Member: ((((((((imp))))))))))
Location:
Date: 3/1/01
Time: 11:42:58 AM
hi lu-lu,
back to cp....................
Member: ^^)_++_+_+
Location:
Date: 3/1/01
Time: 3:53:29 PM
6969696969696969 ^ ^
* ------
Member: ???
Location:
Date: 3/1/01
Time: 4:44:07 PM
WHATS A roo?
Member: Tom M.
Location: Homosassa Florida
Date: 3/1/01
Time: 8:21:47 PM
Thank God for the steps. Sometimes you have to go back and do some again, Like the 5th. God Bless, Keep coming back.
Member: FRED
Location:
Date: 3/1/01
Time: 8:48:03 PM
...IT WORKS IF YOU WORK IT.
Member: Von
Location: OH
Date: 3/2/01
Time: 3:34:25 PM
Thank God for the traditions. They are more important than we realize. If it wasn't for the traditions, I don't know where I would be today (actually I have an image and it scares me!)
I have learned that group conscience must truly be directly by "a loving God as He may express Himself", or things can still get pretty messed up. For example, there is a speaker meeting where the group conscious decided "no comments, no papers signed, no smoking (not even in the parking lot), no children". A friend went to the meeting to check it out and happened to overhear a conversation in a group of oldtimers about how "those addicts needed to get the * out of AA", (he happened to abuse both alcohol and drugs in his past). Another friend happened to take her child (it was a Sunday night), and was stopped at the door. This group to me is a perfect example of a violation of tradition 2 (for starters). Where is the "loving God" in this example? So, by choice, I choose not to attend this meeting.
The key words in this tradition are "loving God" and "express Himself in our group conscious". This means to me that as a group, we must each consult with our "God as I understand Him" or "Higher Power" expressed in our own inner conscious, then each member share the results to come to a group conscious. Otherwise, it's too easy to set up rules that prevent inclusion and then you end up with a meeting that doesn't reflect the diversity and principles of AA. Yes, those traditions are a great strength.
I recall a phrase in the Big Book, "What would the Master do?"
"I am responsible. Whenever anyone, anywhere reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA to always be there, and for that I am responsible".
Member: Not Protestant
Location: Either
Date: 3/2/01
Time: 7:17:11 PM
This tradition is a disaster!! First you have to figure out what a "group conscience" is! And that has as many opinions and dogmas as there are people who know of it! You can walk into a meeting today where they might be in a discussion on the third or eleventh step, talking about "God, as we understood Him," with some words about God followed by some of the most disgusting, gut-wrenching language you could hear! What kind of "group conscience" is this? If someone tries to talk about that, he or she is overwhelmed with opposition such as never has been seen before! I KNOW!! And all the others at the meeting laugh aloud as the vile-talkers cut him or her down!! Hey! Who needs this? You know, I carry a much better sobriety and program by staying away from these fig-leaved AA hypocrites!! And so it shall remain!! AA belongs to the Catholic Church, and all its abominable desolation!! I Know that TOO!!
Member: roo
Location:
Date: 3/2/01
Time: 8:38:55 PM
not prostitute either,
you suck..fig leaves too.
Member: roo
Location:
Date: 3/2/01
Time: 8:39:05 PM
not prostitute either,
you suck..fig leaves too.
Member: roo
Location:
Date: 3/2/01
Time: 8:39:13 PM
not prostitute either,
you suck..fig leaves too.
Member: richard m
Location: sarasota, fla
Date: 3/2/01
Time: 8:47:55 PM
it is simple ......do not drink and go to meetings ....we know that god's will or us is not to drink !...then , achieving sobriety.we found the meetings.....ever reminding us to place principals, before personalities......let go and let god .......let his will be done !!
Member: lulu
Location:
Date: 3/2/01
Time: 10:50:39 PM
i like to give it and recieve it ((MMM))) yum yum
Member: lulu
Location:
Date: 3/2/01
Time: 10:50:42 PM
i like to give it and recieve it ((MMM))) yum yum
Member: lulu
Location:
Date: 3/2/01
Time: 10:50:44 PM
i like to give it and recieve it ((MMM))) yum yum
Member: lulu
Location:
Date: 3/2/01
Time: 10:50:47 PM
i like to give it and recieve it ((MMM))) yum yum
Member: e e e who who who ah ah ah ee ee ee ah ah ah
Location:
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 12:52:02 AM
((((((imp))))) STOP SILLY. if you must use my name to disrupt these people's meetings pleeease, i beg you ,keep it confined to the coffee pot/ a.k.a.1/2 measures room.they asked me not to post goofy stuff on the step or discussion meeting sites,and i've tried to "honor" that but you are making it look like i'd never gone away... please q.t. booty, see you at the pot. love love love you, LU-LU(the real LU-LU)
Member: ((((((imp)))))))))
Location:
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 3:28:02 AM
lu-lu,
that last crap was NOT me!!!!!!!!!!!!
imp)))))
see ya at the cp
Member: (((((imp)))))))
Location: here &there
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 3:30:28 AM
ps its got to be that ROOdowhodo!
Member: Agreeable
Location: Israel
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 12:31:55 PM
So you can see by the comments here after "Not Protestant Either's" words on this 2nd tradition what the "group conscience" of this group is!! It seems quite evident that you just cannot get rid of this deranged and abominable scum who tear apart anyone's Good constructive words to "grow along spiritual lines!" If there is anyone out there who can convince me that the therapeutic benefits of a collectively engaged program of AA is worth any more than the scum that collects on the walls of a cesspool, I am sure ready to read it!! For AA properly practiced saved my life!!
Member: Barry L
Location: PA
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 1:15:38 PM
I'm Barry and I'm an alcoholic,
This is one of the trickier Traditions, a lot of good stuff has been shared. I agree with most of what Michael B. shared and he is in line with the example given in the text of the 12 and 12 re: this tradition.
It is important to a Group when applying the traditions to apply all 12 in any major decision affecting Group conscience, If a Group has survived for 20 or 30 years on its existing guidelines, then experience shows they must be doing something right, but many times a group of recent arrivals decides the Group conscience needs changing, not based on Traditions or on the past experience of AA as a whole, but based on a selfish need or want.
There are some fine examples in Von's share but I wish he/she? had given more details.
No smoking not even in the parking lot, I have seen a few Groups do this, It is usually added because the Group is in danger of losing its meeting place, because some of us smokers refuse to put our buts in an ashtray, and litter the landlords ground, and the landlord says take care of this problem or get out.
No papers signed, Many groups make this decision based on anonymity (of the signor)and that we are not affiliated with the courts, as I have seen it applies to the Chairperson or officers, any Individual Member can sign a court paper if they choose.
No children, this is always a hot one, Von did not say if this meeting was "open" or "closed"? This is one of the rare areas in AA where there is an actual definiton and its on the blue card read at the start of the meeting, the Group conscience cannot overide the blue card especially if they are listed in the meeting directory as "open" or "closed" if it is an Open Meeting "anyone is welome to attend" even children. If it is a Closed Meeting, "only people who have a desire to stop drinking and think they have a problem with alcohol" may attend. A group may vote to change weather it is open or closed but they cannot modify the definition on the blue card.
An oldtimer used to always tell me the 12 Steps get us sober but the 12 Traditions keep us sober and protect us from ourselves.
Thanks for letting me share my opinion.
Member: Anonymous
Location:
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 4:33:58 PM
"For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority--a loving God as he may express himself in our group conscience, our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern."
Would to God, that I, even I, would be accounted worthy, as to be accounted amongst the number of those who are considered as such: "as trusted servants." One such as is discribed in this tradition must indeed be a servant, a servant of God that is; One who places the Lord always before him; One who leans not on his own understanding in whatsoever is set before his feet on any given day. It is with God that he has to do. A man such as is discribed here, one that is a leader has in fact ceased from his own wisdom. No longer does he rely on his own preceptions, but that of God's. According to his own inclinations he may say to himself, self, this man should stay and this one should go. Or why do we tolerate in AA. so much as we tolerate? Why continue to make this an open meeting where everyone is welcome? Is it not so that without so and so things would progress so much the better? But this he sets aside according to the counsel of God. He is not his own. Such is a trusted servant who does not govern; He sets his own wisdom aside to rely on the preceptions of God who is the one untimate authority who knows the thougths and intents of all and moreover, knows his own purposes that he would to purpose in AA. which is His. We would to have all things according to our likeing, some like the coffee hot, some like it cold, some like it in the pot nine days old. A trusted servant of God knows to think of others more highly than himself, but even in this, on any given day he must inquire. This then, is the key to being a leader or a trusted servant in AA or abroad, that he has what he has, The all important ingredient: Connection with God that he might by it not establish a righteousness of his own according to his thinking, but a righteeousness that is of God according to his preceptions, which is to him a blamelessness, a blamelessness that comes from the fact that whatsoever he does, he did according to God rather than himself, this is in fact his innocence, even in the face of those around him who thought otherwise as to his conduct. He inquires of all things whatsoever he says or does that he may then say of himself in truth: that is that he is a trusted servant who does not govern. NO one otherwise could in fact be trusted....
Member: jerry d.
Location: newberg,or
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 5:01:16 PM
barry, if the chairperson does'nt wish to sign a court or probation slip,then it is ok for any member to sign it? is this acceptable with the courts and probation dept?
Member: jj
Location:
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 6:33:41 PM
Dear Jerry from Newberg --- Even though you didn't ask -- Here's my take on your question. It's my understanding that Alcoholics Anonymous is not affiliated with any court system in any universe. As members of AA we are accountable to no outside agencies. We are only held accountable to our Higher Power. After all that's the One that keeps us sober. --- I've often heard at meetings that if any of us get to Heaven it's only because we were backing out of Hell. Appearantly we can do all the right things with all the wrong motives and still recover. But, since signing a piece of paper does't help me then it just depends on my mood. If I chair a meeting I usually ask if there are any Birthday Cards, Death Certificates, or Probation Papers that need to be signed before the meeting starts. I let those folks know AA is not part of the court system. I also tell them if they don't want to come to a meeting then they should have their friends sign the paper. Frankly, who cares who signs the paper. If someone from the courts called me up to verify a signature I would simply tell them meetings are anonymous for a reason; and if they can't figure that out on their own then they will just have to attend some open meetings to get a better idea of what is going on. If the courts are confused why some Groups refuse to sign probation slips then those officials need to attend that meeting to gain greater understanding of the situation. In a way AA's success has become it's downfall. We've become so attractive an organization that outside agencies and programs have either adoped our steps|traditions or, demanded compliance. Either way, we look like we belong to that system when in fact we stand alone. I often wish the court system and treatment facilities would leave us out of their chaos.
Member: Fed Up Too!!
Location: All Over!!
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 6:40:00 PM
I indeed agree with a lot of what "Anonymous" says, but I wonder if he, "Anonymous," has ever had any one agree with what he says on this stinking Internet forum? Or even face to face for that matter? These AA reactionaries who refuse to grow with God "along spiritual lines" and have nothing at all in their still "self will run riot" minds that agrees with the basic concepts of established AA therapy, have (not will) destroyed this life-saving program, and it is indeed beyond salvation!! If I were God, which I am not, I would see AA be forever destroyed according to the scriptures, as they dictate that toward any false-religion, which most of AA's milk-feeders on the breasts of the "mother of harlots and abominations of the earth," starting with the first "Christian" inquisitorial scum of the ancient Catholic Church, who needs to be recompensed "double according to its works!!" I'll have no more of AA!!
Member: Fed Up Three
Location: Everywhere HA!
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 6:45:11 PM
I indeed agree with a lot of what "Anonymous" says, but I wonder if he, "Anonymous," has ever had any one agree with what he says on this stinking Internet forum? Or even face to face for that matter? These AA reactionaries who refuse to grow with God "along spiritual lines" and have nothing at all in their still "self will run riot" minds that agrees with the basic concepts of established AA therapy, have (not will) destroyed this life-saving program, and it is indeed beyond salvation!! If I were God, which I am not, I would see AA be forever destroyed according to the scriptures, as they dictate that toward any false-religion, which most of AA's milk-feeders on the breasts of the "mother of harlots and abominations of the earth," love, starting with the first "Christian" inquisitorial scum of the ancient Catholic Church, who needs to be recompensed "double according to its works!!" I'll have no more of AA!!
Member: Disgusted Too!
Location: Deceitville
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 6:47:27 PM
I'll go along with every word of that!!
Member: Barry L
Location: PA
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 7:00:46 PM
Jerry D.
a quick double dip to answer you're question, what jj said is pretty much in line with my feelings/experience with this, in groups where I've seen this come up if the group conscience voted no to signing, it has been pointed out to the minority that they are free to sign as individuals, and I have never actually heard of a court or probation officers trying to verify a signature. You may get some interesting input if you pose this question on the Coffee Pot
Member: BEWARE
Location:
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 7:01:35 PM
REPENT YOU SINNERS REPENT/EARTHQUAKES WILL ROLL
BEWARE
Member: jerry d.
Location: newberg,ore
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 7:16:38 PM
thank you jj that pretty much somes it up,if the chair/sec. dose'nt wish to sign,i'll just have another member at the meeting sign it.i need this for myself,but at the same time i dont want any more problems with the po/courts.
thank you
Member: jerry d
Location: newberg.ore
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 7:33:59 PM
i posted at the same time barry,thank you.
Member: colleen.n
Location:
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 9:11:17 PM
hi to all, tradition 2,how could anyone read this and say this is not a god program.isnt this higher power as you understand it ,really just semantics at its highest form?i agree that we need to not scare away newcomers with religion but the steps and traditions are filled with god references,is this not denial on peoples part to say itis not a religous program? i love god and i love aa.
Member: ROO
Location: FROM ROO
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 11:16:50 PM
lu lu its not me posting that stuff, havent been here since i apologize to you . 2 weeks ago i believe. ROO is serious about soberity . cant stop people from using my name, on sites but all i can say is AA WORKS BUT AA does not exsit without the people in it ,thank you all for saving my life we can i cant do it alone . love and HUGZ to all on site if your new give your self a chance. life worth livingig if you try a little, only reguirement i desire to stop drinking ..
Member: ROO
Location: FROM ROO
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 11:16:54 PM
lu lu its not me posting that stuff, havent been here since i apologize to you . 2 weeks ago i believe. ROO is serious about soberity . cant stop people from using my name, on sites but all i can say is AA WORKS BUT AA does not exsit without the people in it ,thank you all for saving my life we can i cant do it alone . love and HUGZ to all on site if your new give your self a chance. life worth livingig if you try a little, only reguirement i desire to stop drinking ..
Member: ROO
Location: FROM ROO
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 11:16:58 PM
lu lu its not me posting that stuff, havent been here since i apologize to you . 2 weeks ago i believe. ROO is serious about soberity . cant stop people from using my name, on sites but all i can say is AA WORKS BUT AA does not exsit without the people in it ,thank you all for saving my life we can i cant do it alone . love and HUGZ to all on site if your new give your self a chance. life worth livingig if you try a little, only reguirement i desire to stop drinking ..
Member: ROO
Location: FROM ROO
Date: 3/3/01
Time: 11:17:01 PM
lu lu its not me posting that stuff, havent been here since i apologize to you . 2 weeks ago i believe. ROO is serious about soberity . cant stop people from using my name, on sites but all i can say is AA WORKS BUT AA does not exsit without the people in it ,thank you all for saving my life we can i cant do it alone . love and HUGZ to all on site if your new give your self a chance. life worth livingig if you try a little, only reguirement i desire to stop drinking ..
Member: LU-LU -are we all reading the same books? mines big blue and
beautifull, i also have a 12&12 NOT 12 BUY 12 12 AND 12...
Location: i just can't believe some of the crap on her as well as f2f
mtgs...
Date: 3/4/01
Time: 12:18:15 AM
colleen you butt hole THIS IS NOT A RELIGIOUS PROGRAM!!!! it's a god of "our understanding" is a door knob god ? a statue ? a room full of "drunks" ? is jesus god? is buda god? is love god? is nature god?is a lover god? money? is satin? for some YES. is everything god? LONG AS IT IS NOT ME.but then am i not part of everything... this is a "SPIRITUAL PROGRAM" ALTRUISTIC, a person need not even believe there is a god!!Although it makes life a lot easier. ever hear of a sober athiest? i have met a few, one i knew recently died,with 17 or so years... ironically he died on the toilet of a heart attack, on christmas eve... lots of people miss him... lots of us don't.read your book JUST THE BLACK! we all get to believe in a higher power of our own understanding, they wrote it that way for zealot religious freaks like yourself and annonymous,the only requirement is a desire to stop drinking, god or no god this program works. ask any sober aethiest! if you can find one...
Member: Shirley
Location: Alaska
Date: 3/4/01
Time: 10:00:50 AM
Hello everyone, my name is Shirley and I am an alcoholic. As I read through all the comments, I am gratified my many, scared by the thinking of some, for example, who are we to take another's inventory? But most of all, I am grateful for the reminders in the traditions that I did not come to AA on my own. I too, had a deep personal relationship with my God as I undertand him, but as one of you said, I was admitting 30 years before I was accepting. My God was always there, I just wasn't ready to listen. Today I am sober and free. I appreciate this site as we have only started AA in our remote village this past fall. Thank your for your honest sharing and keeping me reminded that sobriety is a gift just like today.