Member: Ruby B
Location: In the mountains
Remote Name: 67.51.231.185
Date: February 22, 2004
Time: 10:02 AM -0500

Comments

Hi all, Ruby here and on day eight. It amazes me how things sometimes happen when you need them most. makes you really believe that there is really a God in control. This subject for this week is one that I personally have to keep in the front of my mind everyday. If I allow myself the indulgence of going into a bar or even a friends house when i know there will be booze i will be putting my sanity at risk. i have been keeping to myself these past few days, going to meetings, church, the parents, Brians. I have surrounded myself with people and situations that enhance my desire to be sane. A women came up to me after a meeting last night and reminded me that life isn't what we make it but instead it is whats happening while we're busy screwing up and trying to control it. Well just wanted you all to know i'm still here and still praying for each of you. Happy birthdays to all who have had them lately and keep it up you guys are all doing great. minute to minute, Ruby


Member: Anonymous
Location: Canada
Remote Name: 142.154.131.133
Date: February 22, 2004
Time: 10:50 AM -0500

Comments

After getting out of treatment one of the many things I learned was to stay away from people, places and things that supported my addiction. I thought I had enough willpower, that I was stronger, that I was different. I am not. It was not long I was back in the same hell. Today is day two of being sober and I am truly grateful. I went to a meeting yesterday and I'm going again today. I need to be around other recovering alcoholics and to avoid friends and places where the temptation is right in front of me. I have also prayed morning and night that my God remove the desire for that first drink, one day at a time.


Member: Ed
Location: VA
Remote Name: 68.100.37.88
Date: February 22, 2004
Time: 11:02 AM -0500

Comments

Yes, Ruby, I thought of you when I saw this topic. Then I saw your post. Great! We alcoholics are sometimes slow to learn. My bar hopping and partying at friends' houses virtually ended over 20 years ago with a DWI that threatened my career. Didn't end my drininking, however, just where I did it and with whom. I became a party of one in my own house. Now that I see, through AA, what the possibilities could have been had I seized that opportunity, I really regret my decisions. I was in my early 40s in 1982; now I've turned 65 with 1 month sober. No point in crying over what could've or should've been, I've got my opportunity now. But for those of you younger than me, please take a word of advice from an old drunk. You've been given a wonderful opportunity, DON'T SCREW IT UP! It doesn't get easier, and you may not get the extra chances I've been given. Ed


Member: DaveT
Location: Michigan
Remote Name: 68.62.35.118
Date: February 22, 2004
Time: 11:50 AM -0500

Comments

Hi all, Dave the 4 day sober alcohlic here. Thank you for the web link to aa.org. I spent all day yesterday reading the Big Book online. I never knew what I was dealing with. This really taught me. I would call myself a Stage 2 Alcoholic at this point in my life but I need to do something about it now. I want my life back. This is a very appropriate topic for me this week. On Friday I will be going to Germany on business flying first class where every kind of drink imaginable is available at no charge. Last time I went I think I cleaned out the bar. Then in Germany, it is very routine to drink at lunch and after work with collegues. God has given me a way out though. One of my traveling companions (my boss who is also a Christian) does not drink. I will need to tell him this week of my sinful condition, ask him if he could read some sections of the Big book online and then to keep me accountable. I don't know if I will able to find an AA meeting in Germany where English is spoken, that's in God's hands. In addition, I hope you all don't mind if I count on this chat room for your support. I will also have to ask my boss if it is okay to use corporate equipment for this reason. I will pray for all of you today and through the week. Have a great day everyone and try to remember tommorow will take care of itself.


Member: Bob W
Location: Grimsby UK
Remote Name: 62.255.220.114
Date: February 22, 2004
Time: 03:54 PM -0500

Comments

Whilst I am careful of going into bars, and would never enter one I did not know unless I was meeting someone, I feel I am blessed in having some very genuine and caring freinds and colleagues. Right from the start I have made no secret of my alcoholism from freinds and work colleagues. They have in return been very supportive. If I walked into my "Local" now and ordered a beer for myself one of two things would happen:- 1) If any freinds were in there they would throw me out or, 2) the management (who happen to be close freinds) would throw me out. In mid-December we had our Departmental Christmas dinner and dance. Everybody there (including wives etc.) was aware of my circunstances but because I was surrounded by my Peers, drinking was not an option. Although I must admit that when my Boss told me i seemed to be holding up O.K., I had to admit that I was screaming inside. It was a goodish night but not one I am ready to repeat too soon. But as I was saying, YES I DO have to be wary of going in places where drink is available, but I CAN go out and enjoy myself with trusted freinds. Strange thing is, when The Boy is due home from University, I always get him a couple of bottles of Real Ale and it does not bother me to have them in the house waiting for him. Stay Sober Bob W.


Member: KellyM
Location: WA
Remote Name: 67.31.177.26
Date: February 22, 2004
Time: 05:47 PM -0500

Comments

Sometimes its hard to be around your friends while they are drinking, you just have to be strong and fight temptation.


Member: katd
Location: so cal
Remote Name: 67.117.218.136
Date: February 22, 2004
Time: 07:52 PM -0500

Comments

Hi, Kathy Alcoholic here. Glad to meet you << Dave of 4 days>>. I think it is great we can all use this site when we need support and there is no other way to get it. As a Mom stuck at home with a terrible 2 year old this site has been a life saver. Your boss sounds like a God send for you right now. As long as it wont jeopardize your job?! <<ED>> I thought you were younger than 65! You sound young , not that 65 is old! As a 40 year old 65 now sounds pretty young to me. Anyway. I feel like I lost a lot of time too. We are in the same boat. Life has been happening and a lot of people have a career, a family, a home, ect that comes along with showing up for life. I have very little of any of that at the ripe age of 40. Woulda’ been nice to get sober 20 years ago, I will need to trust God and believe the path I am on is meant for me and has a purpose. <<KellyM>> If I could just be stron and fight temptation I would have stopped drinking 30 years ago! For me it has to be turning it over to my HPO that I call God and letting him fight the battle I am unable to fight. I have my footwork to do , I am not abdicating all power and choices here. Just – I know I would have stopped a long time ago if it was a matter of me being strong enough and fighting the temptation. I have 66 days thanks to that HP and my doing the work, the STEPS. Showing up here has taught me much. People with time and experience and gracious enough to share their wisdom here. Thank you all for that recovery!!!! Love and hugs to you all!!! Kathy


Member: roger s.
Location: philadelphia pa.
Remote Name: 64.12.96.103
Date: February 22, 2004
Time: 09:20 PM -0500

Comments

Hello everyone roger s here alcoholic coming up on 6 months sober. The topic of wet places and drinking occasions really touches home. I think that relates to people places and things and that is what enabled me to get any real time sober before coming to AA. The truth is I need to be around people who want the same things I want. I'm lucky to live in Philly where there is a meeting somewhere in the city just about every hour of every day. I have surrounded myself with some great guys who want the same thing I want TO STAY SOBER!!!! One of my buddies(7 years sober) gave me some good advice, stay away from any drinking occasions for the first year of sobriety if you can. If you have to attend a function hit a meeting right before and take your phone list with you just incase. thanks for letting me share.


Member: Ruby B
Location: In the mountains
Remote Name: 67.51.231.185
Date: February 22, 2004
Time: 10:11 PM -0500

Comments

Hi all, Hope everyone had a wonderful Sunday. Just got back from a meeting and it was nothing short of wonderful. Met a young women there (62) and her and i went and had coffee afterwards. We talked for at least 2 hours about everything from kids to jobs to just little stress triggers like the dog having an accident on the floor. Her advice was to basically take a new perspective on every thiing in my world. No matter what happens find one thing, be it funny, be it a chance to learn something, or just something that can put a smile on your face and instead of reacting to it sit with it a minute. I must quit looking at everything as an excuse to drink. Like everything is against me. Cause it's not. Life wants me in it. I just be willing to actually walk in it and when it gets rough i now have a few numbers of people who are willing to talk me through it. (Jim) last week you gave me a little kick start. you were honest with me about the Work. and you were right i didn't want to do the work cause quite honestly it sucks. But where there is God there is a way. I at first thought how dare he say such things but when i sat with it awhile and didn't just react i was shown the truth about me. Sanity does not come easy for me and neither does handling the truth. Thanks for being a friend and giving me the shove i needed to get serious and stop waiting for everyone else to fix my mess. you might just have helped save my life. THANKS!!!!! ((Everyone else, Stay sober lean on your friends (just make sure your "friends" aren't your disease in disguise. Love you all, Ruby


Member: jimr
Location: chicago
Remote Name: 68.165.58.176
Date: February 22, 2004
Time: 10:47 PM -0500

Comments

Humility is the key... There is a hell of alot of willingness on this page! It's really contagious. That's what I call a good infection. Being wary of wet places and drinking occasions is good advice in early recovery. It was pointed out to me I had to avoid all former trappings for a good while...former people places and things had to avoided at all costs until I got through the steps. Sometimes it is unavoidable, but taking the proper measures to be held acountable by family and friends, sponsors, emploees are a good thing. My sponsor held the carrot of "freedom" (stated in the promises)in front of me for months. Then the promises started coming true after working the steps, slowly at first, but then with more regularity... After having had a spiritual awakening as a result of working the steps........ the possibilities were endless. There will come a time after trusting in HP and working the steps that you won't have to be wary of anyone, anyplace or anything. It is a promise. Dave T. You're taking good action to help you until you get stronger. Remember one thing though...Sin is just one part of alcoholism. Alcohol is not just a moral dilema... It is 1) a disease of the Body, physical allergy manefesting itself in what is called "the phenomon of craving", as described in the Big Book in the chapter called "The Doctor's opinon" 2) It is a disease of the mind, "an obsession of the mind" as described in the chapter "More about alcoholism" with Jim, Fred and the jaywalker stories 3)It is a disease of the soul or spiritual malady: how we percieve or think we're percieved by God, OTHERS,and the world around us... We are simply in total disharmony with everone and everything, including ourselves... also described in "Bill's Story" "We Agnostics" "How it Works", and "Into Action" Once the spiritual malady clears up, our body and minds get better. We have found that Lack of Power was our dilema. Once we tap into the power we are half way home. God's speed and have a safe and sober trip. If your boss is a good Christian, you are blessed with one less dilema. Go to any length to find a meeting in germany, even if you didn't understand a word they say, the spirit of sobriety in the room will help you. I call that the holy spirit BTW. Ten bucks says they'll love to have you amongst them.


Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Remote Name: 205.188.208.101
Date: February 23, 2004
Time: 12:08 AM -0500

Comments

Hi ((Everybody)), I am Kelly a real alcoholic. I was thinking about what you said ((Katd)) about wishing we knew we were alcoholics 30 years ago. It sure would have changed my life in a big kind of way! I had no clue I was an alcoholic till I was 30 and started daily drinking after my divorce. I still chose to drink another 10 years. I know I was in DENIAL- (Don't Even Know I Am Lying) big time from the moment I admitted to myself I had a drinking problem. My progression was rapid and I was losing things quicker than I could lower my standards. Now looking back I guess that was just the way God intended it to be for me. I used to wish that I could turn back time but as I slowly am getting this program I understand that the past is the past and I can't change it. The Big Book says, we shall not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. My focus now is always on Today. If I have worries I turn it over to God and the right solution always happens in God's time, not mine. It is always what I need and sometimes what I want but my needs always get met. I think that wonderful woman you met has given you some wonderful suggestions and I would make a regular coffee time with her. As for the topic I stay out of drinking establishments. I would attend an occasion if I had a reason to be there, like a wedding. The Big Book and I differ on keeping alcohol in the house and not avoiding it but it was written in an era before rehabs. Sobering up was done by the sponsor back then. I stay out of slippery places. I like the saying, "If you hang around the barber shop long enough your going to get a haircut". Works for me! Don't drink just for today and hit a meeting... Kelly :)


Member: Ann
Location: Ohio
Remote Name: 68.171.89.218
Date: February 23, 2004
Time: 03:33 AM -0500

Comments

Well, for me to avoid slippery places would be difficult. You see, I drank at home :) So everything around me was a trigger. It was hard at first, but got better everyday. Now, I don't even think about it anymore. I do go to restaurant/bars for food. See the beer signs and makes me think about the past. I order a nice tall iced tea and enjoy my food knowing that I've done one more day sober. I love the post about being honest with everyone. I've done that, although I think I will work on doing more after reading the post, and it really does help with sobriety. It was hard, don't get me wrong. Admitting you can't handle alcohol in my mind was some sort of personality fault. Funny how only alcoholics think that. Other people just say you don't drink.. so what? Remember it is only us alcoholics that fixate on alcohol and drinking. I can't imagine a boss getting upset that you are sober. Or a truly good friend getting upset you are sober. Hey, I would think that is great if I were an employer. No need to worry about you calling in sick or whatever! I did stop at just saying it to say it. There was always purposes for telling someone. Everyone I told has been so supporting. Many did not know I even had a problem, but being an at home drinker you could probably see why. If you are afraid to tell someone that you think needs to know, tell them. You will be pleasently surprised at the response and boy does it lift that weight off of your shoulders. We all know we suffer from denial and hiding our addiction is a biggy. And whatever we can do to make our road to sobriety easier, I'm all for it! Here's to another sober 24 for everyone.


Member: Ruby B
Location: In the mountains
Remote Name: 67.51.231.185
Date: February 23, 2004
Time: 06:09 AM -0500

Comments

Morning all, Well off to school to take a anatomy and physiology test. Anyone want to take it for me?? Been up since four and have spent some quality time with my HP and gave up the worry about today to him. I will sit with the events of my day until i feel that inner tug to head in his direction not my own. Here's to another day in the world of sobriety!!!God is the strength all of us need to keepiit together. He's my new drinking buddy.... (Coffee of course!!!!) minute to minute, Love ya ,Ruby


Member: Adam H.
Location: New York, NY
Remote Name: 64.232.156.194
Date: February 23, 2004
Time: 11:04 AM -0500

Comments

Adam, alcoholic. I'll never forget the day a longtimer said to me, "If you don't need a haircut, don't go to the barber shop." That was one fo a few AA allegories I was able to get right away. It really made it hard for me to convince myself that going to the frat houses to "see the people." Although I had not yet done a 4th Step when I heard that quip, I realized upon hearing it that never had never been interested in "seeing the people" at frat parties before AA; I went there for the express purpose of getting drunk. I wasn't friends with one person who drank in those frat houses, so the people were more like scenery than anything else. Pretty arrogant of me, huh? That was always my downfall when drinking...arrogance and covenient lies. Hearing that little phrase about staying out of the barber shop if I don't need a haircut helped me learn a great deal about staying out of wet places...and why. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Kel
Location: Iowa City, IA
Remote Name: 216.248.122.227
Date: February 23, 2004
Time: 11:12 AM -0500

Comments

Hello, my name is Kelly and I am 21 years old. I currently am a college student at a campus that is big party town. I try to go home as often as I can considering most of my friends here go out most of the time. I also am trying to attend meetings that don't interfer with my class schedule. Anyway I wanted to give a little history about me and say something about the topic posted. Close to a year ago I was involved in a drunk driving accident and broke my neck. I came 2 mm close to dying. I recovered, didn't really drink, but I got drunk and sometimes drove saying, 'well, in my accident, I wasn't the one driving' then close to 7 months after my accident I got picked up for drinking and driving. However those are in the past and I've moved on and have had to deal with the consequences. I was in a serious relationship with a man who was about 7 years my senior. He partied back in college and can understand why I do. However, I don't want to. Because of my drinking and my actions, he has broken up with me and has broken my heart. He said he would support me through this, but I'm not sure if he really will and he said that if I do change he might not get back together for me. However let's make this clear, I'm here because I want to and only bad things happen when I get very drunk and I have gotten into many fights with my family and my boyfriend that are not repairable. But why should I go through with this when someone I care so much for, might not even be there for me when I have changed? Also, I don't come home everyday and have to drink, but I have gotten drunk by myself and I can't just have a couple and stop. Also for the topic, I know a recovering alcoholic that works in a bar. Can you actually go to a bar while being sober? Sorry this is so long, but I would be very gracious to hear back some thoughts you might have on my situation. Thank you for your time.


Member: dave mc
Location: canada
Remote Name: 129.100.110.203
Date: February 23, 2004
Time: 11:36 AM -0500

Comments

David, alcoholic, first, Kathy, thanks for your words and memory. I did get through my "kids" issues without drinking, this time. I hope that the experience will make next time easier. It's so hard to change our behaviors, isn't it Kathy? Slippery places, 2 weeks ago I went to the bar where I did so much of my drinking, first time in 8 months. Big mistake (or maybe not) I could not believe the hold that alcohol still has on me. I don't remember what anyone said to me there as I was mesmerized by the drinks in their hands. Some of us seem to be able to go to wet places without effect, I'm not one of them. TODAY, everyone!!!


Member: KellyM
Location: WA
Remote Name: 216.204.191.62
Date: February 23, 2004
Time: 07:08 PM -0500

Comments

recovery is a risking thing to go through. you never know how strong you truly are but eventually you might have to put yourself through a test to prove to yourself that you can do it.


Member: jimr
Location: chicago
Remote Name: 68.164.6.216
Date: February 23, 2004
Time: 07:19 PM -0500

Comments

Kel, I felt the same way when my wife and I split up. I was sober at the time but many of the problems we experienced in our marriage was realted to my drinking, mosrly because of my thinking, my perception of the world was definately warped. When you said, "But why should I go through with this when someone I care so much for, might not even be there for me when I have changed?" You made think about that statement. It sounds like something I said and felt a few years back in early sobriety when our marriage was falling apart. what i didn't realise when i felt that way, is that I couldn't have possibly known how I would of felt after I had changed. I only was willing to change at the time. The change had not occured yet. Once I was willing to change for myself and not others, it was only then I was able to change. There is a part in the big book that explains the need to change for one's self before even thinking about having a happy life. In"working others" "He clamors for this or that, claiming he cannot master alcohol until his material needs are cared for. Nonsense. Some of us have taken very hard knocks to learn this truth: Job or no job -- wife or no wife -- we simply do not stop drinking so long as we place dependence upon other people ahead of dependence on God. Burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trust in God and clean house."


Member: kelly h
Location: nj
Remote Name: 141.150.201.51
Date: February 23, 2004
Time: 07:22 PM -0500

Comments

Hi my name is Kelly H I have been sober for 54 days i have never shared neither at my home group or on line. Although i have wanted to alot but without drinking i'm kinda of shy.But last night i went to dinner at Applebees with 23 fellow aa's they both have more than 8 yrs together one of them is my sponsor and before we went in i got real nervous,she asked are you ok? I said yes but there is a huge abr in there she is like yeah we are going to eat ...Well I secretly prayed to take the obsession away at that moment and i fogot all about the bar hardly noticed it! It's just a way i see GOD working in my life to help me get through each day one at a time thanks for luistening! kel


Member: Kel
Location: Iowa City, IA
Remote Name: 216.248.123.144
Date: February 23, 2004
Time: 09:23 PM -0500

Comments

Jim - Thank you so much for responding back. After I wrote that, I thought about it and before I can make any relationships right again, I must make sure I am at peace with myself and have faith because that is the most important. I also sent an email to really close friends and family members saying that this is my decision and I can't make anyone happy or try to, unless I feel happy about myself, and I do. My friend wrote back, 'I know that the ending of your relationship had a part in you getting help, but know that you are the most important factor and your happiness is just what I want.' She couldn't of said it any better. If you don't mind me getting kind of personal, you said that it was better when you did it for yourself, but do you still speak to your exwife? I've only corresponded through emails to my ex with him not responding. I don't really care if he does not take me back, but I don't want to lose his friendship you know? I also went to my first AA meeting today, it went really well. Everyone was so nice and welcomed me with open arms. I spoke with another girl and she invited me to one of her meetings tomorrow night. I know this is my first day of joining AA, but I haven't felt anything that feels this right before for a long time! Right after I sent emails out, I got three calls from my dear friends and they said that they were so happy for me and it takes alot of courage (which it does) just to admit it. My one friend even cried. I felt so touched knowing that I mean that much to them. I just know deep down that this is one of the best decisions in my life. Again thank you! Talk again soon!


Member: DaveT
Location: Michigan
Remote Name: 68.62.35.118
Date: February 23, 2004
Time: 10:39 PM -0500

Comments

Hi Dave an alcholic here. It has been 5 sober days now. I went to two AA meetings so far. One last night and one tonight. Felt good to meet some new people who took a geniuine interest in me. They told me 90 meetings in 90 days. I might miss a few with the trip to Germany but they gave me their emails to communicate. I did find they have some English speaking meetings there (mon - Fri). Hopefully I will be okay thru the weekend. By the way Jim, thank you for clarifying this condition. In my meeting tonight they said the same thing, it is a disease that needs to be kept in remission and the only way to do it is through meetings. The more I learn about it the easier it is for me to understand why I could never quit drinking on my own. Thank you Kelly for the advice, ask GOd to deal with the obsession when it can't be avoided. Also, a guy at the AA meeting yesterday said maybe I sould not rush into telling my boss to soon about this since he may not understand. At this point it is better to discuss this with the fellowship of AA members. I think I will take that advice. After all I am only in step one. I pray you all have a great sober day tomorrow.


Member: jimr
Location: chicago
Remote Name: 68.164.6.216
Date: February 24, 2004
Time: 02:01 AM -0500

Comments

Kel, We were seperated 2 times in our marriage, once legally...just celebrated our 22nd aniversary back in October. It only works if you put blinders on for your sobriety. God & Sobriety First, the rest takes care itself. They have a saying in AA... "First things first." Good luck! Hope to see around SC. best wishes to all.


Member: Ruby B
Location: In the mountains
Remote Name: 67.51.231.185
Date: February 24, 2004
Time: 05:45 AM -0500

Comments

Hoi all, ((Ed)) where are you buddy???? Hope you all have a great day!!! love, Ruby


Member: Tracy
Location: Little ole England
Remote Name: 62.255.64.7
Date: February 24, 2004
Time: 08:06 AM -0500

Comments

HI I have been sober a little over a yr now...even so each day I need to do what I did yesterday to keep me sober today...I just read the following info on the BB and its like I have just read it for the first time..it still gives me the motivation to carry on learning and growing and the hope to carry on carrying on... "To show other alcoholics PRECISELY HOW WE HAVE RECOVERED is the main purpose of this book." A powerful statement! Note that the capitalized words in the sentence above were capitalized in the first edition of the book. Subsequent editions italicized these words. I'll have to use caps instead of italics when adding emphasis where the book does. I look forward to it every time I see my Aunt Pat out in Newton, New Jersey. She makes a wonderful strawberry shortcake. After years of visits I finally asked her for the recipe which she gladly gave to me. I went home, followed the directions as they were written and viola! the strawberry shortcake I have always loved! Then my ego gets involved. I think a little more sugar in the whipped cream would improve it. Maybe frozen strawberries. Or let's use Cool Whip® instead of real whipped cream. I make the cake using my version and it isn't anywhere near as good, in fact I am disappointed. The Big Book shows us the specific recipe for sobriety and, if we follow it carefully, we will get all the benefits of The AA Program. If we change the recipe we will get something else and we will be greatly disappointed.


Member: KimM
Location: Florida
Remote Name: 66.245.81.76
Date: February 24, 2004
Time: 11:40 AM -0500

Comments

WELCOME to all who are newcomers and I hope all of you decide to post on a regular basis. It helps me sober for today to know that the insanity is still in full force. Early in my sobriety I was told that I was powerless over People, Place and Things (most commonly known as the PPT's). This included wet places and drinking occasions. I was also told how to handle these varitity of things in my life. If I did not need to be in the bar, why should I be there. Don't test your sobriety, my first lesson. If for some reason I had to go to a get together of normal people or a wedding, take someone with you that had a stronger sobriety time than you. This was the person that will help you get through any situation. She taught me not to sit my drink of club soda or soda pop down and return to pick it up later. I was dumb and naive when I first started out. Second lesson, not everyone thinks you are cute when you first become sober. They would rather have you drunk and do what they do. They do not like people who remember what they did when they were drunk. What occupation that some people in recovery take is none of my business. Their sobriety most likely is stronger than mine and they can manage the bar happenings better than me. I do go to eat with alot of recovering alcoholics sometimes there are just two of us and most of the times there are more. We go to places that we can enjoy the atsmophere and conversation and food. Some of the best restraunts have big bars. I am not there to soak of the suds, I am there to eat and share my life with others. Just as I am in the rooms of AA and here online, share my life with other alcoholics, is my main objective for today. Love to all Oh what a day to live in Sobriety KimM Florida


Member: Gage
Location: swamp
Remote Name: 152.163.252.68
Date: February 24, 2004
Time: 12:32 PM -0500

Comments

I'm Gage and I'm an alcoholic. Three years ago this day, I drank for the entire day at Mardi Gras. I wasn't really a party drinker, my drinking had gone way past that. I was a maintenance drinker by then. And I was an outright drunk. Mardi Gras simply afforded me the opportunity to drink from sun-up to sundown, and I took it. I got very drunk by the end of the evening, went into a blackout, and ended up having a profound moment of spiritual clarity when I looked into the eyes of my three year old and saw myself, a terrified little boy who never grew up. I realized what a beast my best friend, alcohol, is -- he thrives on the destruction of innocence. That ended my drinking and began my relationship with AA, and I am so grateful for it. A simple program. So simple, even a drunk can get it. A handful of simple, clear principles, practiced on a daily basis for a daily reprieve from alcoholism. I can go anywhere I need to go. That includes somewhere where people are drinking if I need to be there. I'm not desperate. I'm okay in the skin I'm in, and I am having a wonderful time raising my son, taking care of my family, and being to the best of my ability the person I was intended to be. That's enough for me. With a topic like this one, you are probably going to be given lots of advice. I'd say consider all this advice. But in the final analysis, all anyone can really say is that the world is not going to change on your behalf. It is a drinking world. Not everyone has our problem with alcohol, and if they'd like to drink, they should. The world won't change, but we can change in order to live in it without drinking. So, take the steps. Do them to the best of your ability. Clear away that clutter, make room for a power greater than your own to come in, and you will experience something drunks normally don't get a taste of: Freedom. Thank you all for helping me stay sober. I love you.


Member: Cynthia
Location: Clarence NY
Remote Name: 24.48.74.133
Date: February 24, 2004
Time: 02:45 PM -0500

Comments

Early in my sobriety, I was in a real panic when I had to go to a business party or function where alcohol was. What was I going to say? Why wasn't I drinking? Not everyone knew that I was in recovery. The most amazing thing happened though. No one really even noticed that I was drinking water or soda. And even more amazing, they didn't care. I was the one who was afraid, I was the one who used to count. My Husband and I made it through the Holidays joyfully, it was the best ever and I did not have to drink to be a part of a group or be funny, or stupid. Wet places don't bother me anymore, but a note of caution I guess, I was a home drinker for the most part, not a big partier anyway. I also would honestly say I enjoy hanging out with sober people much more than drinkers or drunks.


Member: Ed
Location: VA
Remote Name: 68.100.37.88
Date: February 24, 2004
Time: 07:49 PM -0500

Comments

Hi all! Ed, an alcoholic. Just passed the 5 week mark yesterday and as several of you have said it does indeed get easier. Not easy, mind you, but I find myself thinking about alcohol a lot less now. And I'm also telling myself not to think I've got it made lest I fall. Today I had the strange experience of my brain actually working the way it once did. Didn't even realize it hadn't been working these past several years, but there I was saying to myself that I actually remembered this feeling. Frankly, the clarity of thought and the fact that none of my thinking had anything to do with alcohol felt great. JimR has noted the Big Book promises on more than one occasion (page 84 if I recall). I'm nowhere near there yet, but at least I can really believe it now. Thanks for your many words of wisdom, Jim. ((Ruby)) how did your exams go? Guess you probably won't know for sure for a while, but I bet you have an idea.


Member: jakob
Location: nyc
Remote Name: 206.216.60.109
Date: February 25, 2004
Time: 08:47 AM -0500

Comments

7th day sober here (NYC)--- this morning I'm okay---but last night every cell in my body was screaming for alcohol---i'm scared something unexpected might trigger a relapse -----any 'cheater' techniques recommended for use at parties, etc.? Thanks, jakob PS: the postings on this site really do help---the one from the guy who said he wasted 20 more years after an early relapse...scary


Member: Adam H.
Location: New York, NY
Remote Name: 64.232.156.194
Date: February 25, 2004
Time: 09:37 AM -0500

Comments

Jakob, please come to my homegroup on Thursday nite in Manhattan...7pm @ 60th and Park Ave. It's a beginner meeting where you can ask more specifically about how to handle parties. Hope to see you there.


Member: jimr
Location: chicago
Remote Name: 64.109.136.4
Date: February 25, 2004
Time: 11:17 AM -0500

Comments

Jakob, if this site helps, adam's invite to you for you to try a face to face aa meeting will help twice as much. In the meantime hang in there and try your hardest to avoid former trappings where alcohol is present. I know it's not easy because alcohol is so accesable. Prayers and/or meditation worked for me until I could get to a meeting with people who shared a common problem (alcohol). The techniques you'll find there are not only life saving, but I promise you, if you honestly apply them to your life, you'll find a new happiness unlike you've never experienced before. It doesn't happen overnight, but shear willingness works wonders. Good luck.


Member: Kel
Location: Iowa City, IA
Remote Name: 216.248.124.199
Date: February 25, 2004
Time: 03:16 PM -0500

Comments

Adam and Jakob - How's NYC? I was there in December and absolutely fell in love with it. Right now I'm at the U of I and it is a big party school. Anyway, I'm on my fifth day of sobriety, and haven't felt better. I haven't felt this good about something for a long time. I've taken this AA thing approach as almost the opposite, it's just too easy, and anybody can do it, and if I fail, then I am a poor excuse for a person. Anyway, it's funny what you mention. My friend who doesn't know I'm sober called me last night and left a message saying, "well you're probably out getting drunk being it's Mardi Gras and all" He invited me to his birthday tonight, and I have to stop by, I'm sure there will be plenty of drinks there, but there is no bone in my body that even wants one, so I'm not nervous about going at all. This along with the meetings do help so much. Also I have a question some other newcomers might have. How long does it take to complete the 12 steps? A response would be great. And Jim, I'm so happy that you have been with your wife that long! There are many factors besides alcohol that could break up your relationship, but it hasn't. Congrats!


Member: Ann
Location: Ohio
Remote Name: 64.12.96.103
Date: February 25, 2004
Time: 03:43 PM -0500

Comments

Wow, all of the posts this week are great. Seeing all of us helping each other is just a neat thing. You know I don't know of any other organization that this happens like this. I just want to say from my heart that I don't believe anyone will relapse that truly does not want to from the gut. It took me til I was 43 years old. I wasn't a big drinker for most of those years, but I guess I grew into it and a family tragedy really sped it up. But when you get to your bottom, you will know it and nothing will make you go back there again. Always keep a picture of your ugliest moment in your mind. Only you will know what that is. For me it was getting a DUI with my 10 year old son in the back seat. When you think of reaching for a drink, bring that picture back. It turns my stomach every time. Sobriety has been wonderful for me. I still have a 6 day stint in jail and probation thru July but I wouldn't change a thing. Unfortunately a DUI was what it took for me. Hopefully some of you will not need to go that far. I think about all of you everyday. Here's to a sober 24 for each and every one of us!


Member: katd
Location: so cal
Remote Name: 67.115.11.2
Date: February 25, 2004
Time: 06:20 PM -0500

Comments

Hi all, kathy alcoholic here, I was a solitary drinker. Never with people or in bars. Makes it tricky to avoid that wet place since it whereever I am ;-) I do have to stay out of my brain though when I start thinking about drinking. I have to try and remember to pray and not start that debate in my head with myself as I will loose, experience proves that. My sponsor said to try a change of scenery too. If I am inside go outside, if I am alone go to the store or something. That sorta helps. Like you <<<ED>>> the desire to drink is less but still there. I have to call my sponsor most days to tell her I am wishing I could have a drink. THough at this point I know that just cuz I think it does not mean I have to do it! WOw that was an epiphany! I have been feeling friendless of late. I know it is my job to make friends but I suck at it. I look forward to doing the steps to get to the promises and hopefully get past some of this fear that shuts me down. I hope you are all doing well this 24 hours. my best to you, Kathy


Member: Ed
Location: VA
Remote Name: 68.100.37.88
Date: February 25, 2004
Time: 09:36 PM -0500

Comments

Ed, an alcoholic, here. Felt on top of my game yesterday. Today I've been bottom fishing. What goes up must come down, and that, I guess, includes my mood. Rethinking everything was apparently set off by agreeing to take over the coffee making/setup at the Tuesday meeting I've been going to. What I had done, without thinking it thru, was make a commitment. Up until yesterday, I really was taking it one day at a time -- not sure whether I would drink the following day or not. Now I feel obligated to show up, and if I'm going to show up I probably ought to be sober. For that reason, and some other equally poor reasons, I was really getting close to the edge this afternoon. Went to a great meeting tonight and feel much better now. What I'm discovering is that the more meetings I attend, and the more I post here, the more people I feel I would be letting down if I decided to take that first drink. Several people at the meetings I attend have taken time to talk with me -- have in fact invested something of themselves in trying to help me see things more clearly. That's true of several of you here too. Used to think it was just a polite throw away line for those celebrating sober anniversaries to thank those in the rooms for helping them. Now I'm beginning to see the truth in that statement. This had nothing to do with the topic for the week, but I did feel a need to say it. Thanks for being here. Ed


Member: jimr
Location: chicago
Remote Name: 68.164.228.125
Date: February 26, 2004
Time: 01:15 AM -0500

Comments

Ed, i quit going to meetings along time ago. I have at least four AA commitments a week. Kel, don't let your gaurd down, enjoy sobriety today, but learn to keep it. Find a sponsor. All you have to do is ask someone at your next meeting. As far as the steps go, trust a sponsor to help you go through them correctly. The more action I took, with good coaching from my sponsor, the better "it" got. Getting "IT" takes ACTION...1.admitting I had a problem and seeking help...2 willingness to believe in a power greater than myself...3 making a decision to turn my will and my life over to that power...4 Taking a good hard look at myself as the root of my problems trough taking personal inventory... 5 became accountable to my God and another human by admitting the exact nature of my wrongs...6 was willing to finally let go of the defects that almost ruined my life... 7 actually let go of those defects by practicing the opposite of those defects i.e. if i practiced resentment before, I now practice forgiveness... if I was inconsiderate and impatient, i now practice kindness and excercise patience.... 8 took the list of those I hurt in my fourth step inventory and became willing to makes amends to those people... 9 began to cleared the wreckage of my past by making the amends on my step 8 list... 10 conitnued to watch for signs of negative behavior (displayed by me, not others) in my life and promptly admited when I was wrong 11. practiced spiritual conditioning through daily prayer and meditation to keep in touch with the power that keeps me sober. 12 after waking up spiritually and feeling comfortable in my own skin again, i give back what was freely given to me by helping alcoholics and others get "it" if they want "it". Life is grand when I'm not drunk.


Member: Ruby B
Location: In the mountains
Remote Name: 24.25.156.236
Date: February 26, 2004
Time: 10:15 AM -0500

Comments

Good morning all, Have been busy doing the work instead of talking shit. Alady at my meetings has been helping me alot (although neither of us can see her as my sponser, She's has cancer and prognosis isn't great--- she has been sober almost 28 years though and her story is so much like mine it's kinda scary) I was telling her that i started step 4 and the first list i made was really short. so she started probing and when we were done i had a three page list. Holy crap i love to bury the truth but this lady is amazing.. it's like she can see inside of my head and heart. So now with the list completed i have spent alot of time praying to God to help me, to forgive me and to clean my slate. Went to see my childhood priest yesterday and explained what was going on. He was great also and we talked for hours. He said that God never quit loving me even though i have sinned countless sins. Instead he said God loves the sinner because they are the ones who truly need him and once they come to the point where i'm at they are unbelieveably willing to have his spirit come in and do wonderous things. well this morning i didn't get with the first thought in my head being about my desire to drink and i didn't even dream about it last night. now if that's not a miricle i don't know what is!!!!!!! (Ed) I am so proud of you. You made a commitment and you stand by it. I know the feeling of thinking you could let people down and that alone has both it's advantages and disadvantages. Be real with yourself and do what you can and if the pressure causes you to have a bad day or two maybe you need to step back a little till it feels right. I love you and my concern is that you be sober. You so deserve it and all the blessings it will bring!!! everyone else... thanks for being here, we take what we need and leave the rest for someone else. one word, one sentence can change my whole attitude. THANK YOU minute to minute, Ruby PS. (Ed) Got a 98 on that test. God blesses me so much everyday!!!!Have a lab practicum on next Tuesday. Study Study Study


Member: AZbill
Location: azbill1172@cox.net
Remote Name: 68.226.19.133
Date: February 26, 2004
Time: 02:52 PM -0500

Comments

Hi Bill here, alcoholic from Arizona. Newcomers should be very wary of wet places. I consider anyone a newcomer that has not been through the steps at least once. I say that because it is through the steps that we learn how to live without drinking in a society where drinking is acceptable. Once we are spiritually fit we can do all sorts of things that alcoholics are not supposed to do. In the chapter, "Working With Others" (Step 12) It warns us that any scheme of combating alcoholism which proposes to shield the sick person from temptation is doomed to failure. The rule is not to avoid a place where there is drinking, but only if we have a legitimate reason for being there. I just love it when the waitress brings the menu and asks if I care for a drink from the bar. My stock answer, "Hon, I would love several drinks from the the bar, but I have to be in Denver in three months." The look on most of their faces is priceless (especially when the "light" comes on). I just don't go into the same type of bars I used to, nor do I hang out with the same type of people I used to. I wear Life and this Program like a loose garment. Have fun. Love ya, Bill


Member: Becky R
Location: Central Oregon
Remote Name: 66.62.141.123
Date: February 26, 2004
Time: 07:42 PM -0500

Comments

Hi, Becky, alcoholic & addict here. Grateful to be clean and sober. Great topic. I was just invited to Reno for an AA Convention. Sounds innocent enough, but with only 114 days clean and sober, I am not ready yet. I am sure there will come a time when the clinking of ice in a glass and a smoke filled room doesn't trigger me, but not now. Maybe not ever. I enjoyed the saying "If you don't need a haircut, don't go to the barber." How true that is. Why put myself in a situation where the focus will be gambling and night life. Too slippery today. I am going to suit up, show up and do what I am told and stay sober for today. Take care and thanks for sharing. Becky


Member: Grateful to be sober
Location: Michigan
Remote Name: 216.86.80.12
Date: February 26, 2004
Time: 08:14 PM -0500

Comments

((Becky)) Great job! You are starting to listen to that little voice in your head, God's voice, trying to lead and help you. You are not ready if your inner voice tells you you're not. When we were drinking, we drown out the sound of that voice, couldn't hear the voice of reason. When the alcoholic fog starts to clear, we find we can make good rational decisions like we never have before! The only time you should be in slippery places is when you are spiritually fit and feel you can handle it. Otherwise, it could be diasterous. Keep doing what you are doing!


Member: Ed
Location: VA
Remote Name: 68.100.37.88
Date: February 26, 2004
Time: 08:21 PM -0500

Comments

Ruby - Good goin on the exam and thank you very much for the kind words of support. Sounds like you've found somebody really good to help you with the steps. And that is the primary purpose of a sponsor. AZBill, I truly did laugh out loud. What a great line. See ya in Denver. Ed


Member: Peggy E
Location: Salem, Oregon
Remote Name: 67.164.52.213
Date: February 26, 2004
Time: 10:41 PM -0500

Comments

Slippery places are dangerous when we are new especially. "If you sit in the barber shop long enough you WILL get a haircut!" For me it is like Russian Roulet - never know when the gun will go off. I have been around it if I have reason to be there and am spiritually fit. Another day sober. Peggy, alcoholic


Member: billy
Location: bradenton fl.
Remote Name: 24.92.218.69
Date: February 27, 2004
Time: 05:04 AM -0500

Comments

I want to try agine but I keep going back to drinking I been on and off this AA I dont even know how many times Iam 52 now and would like to know what to do


Member: Doug
Location: Wilmette, Illinois
Remote Name: 67.36.179.23
Date: February 27, 2004
Time: 09:23 AM -0500

Comments

First of all Billy you are not alone. This is a simple program for complicated people. Go get your Big Book and read page 30. If that page describes you the sign your name in the margin and date it. Now get ready to take action. You mentioned that you are "on and off" this AA program. That is your trouble my friend. You have to get into AA. You can't get off something that you are "IN". I needed to stay with the winners and do what they did until their voices got louder than the voices in my own head. I needed to go to meetings ... I lived at meetings ...I hung out in other AA's homes and offices ... I called AAs ... I got a sponsor who was tougher than me and I did what I was told. I haven't had a drink since. You can do this Billy ... just don't drink or use NO MATTER WHAT! - d


Member: dave mc
Location: canada
Remote Name: 129.100.110.213
Date: February 27, 2004
Time: 02:30 PM -0500

Comments

Hi everyone, David- Alcoholic here. It is a beautiful day here, and I mean beautiful. I'm going to stay away from slippery people and places today. Tomorrow can look after itself. Thank you to everyone for being here, learned lots this week.


Member: Kim D
Location: Bridgewater
Remote Name: 209.113.227.200
Date: February 27, 2004
Time: 04:15 PM -0500

Comments

I like the saying... "Stick around the barber shop long enough and sooner or later you'll get a hair cut."


Member: Joe P
Location: Chicago
Remote Name: 67.73.139.4
Date: February 27, 2004
Time: 05:14 PM -0500

Comments

My name is Joe and I am an alcoholic. My short version would be that I can't put it any better than Azbill. I've heard a few very practical bits of advice. Arrive late, leave early. Always have your own way out just in case you need to get away quick. Take sober support along. Have phone numbers ready to take along just in case. Know what meeting you can go straight to from wherever you are. But under NO circumstances let yourself get stuck where you have no way out and nowhere to turn. Early on I turned down a fishing trip with my brother-in-law because I knew they would be drinking, and I really didn't like the notion of having to swim for sobriety. Billy - I'd suggest getting back to f2f meetings and getting a sponsor and get back into taking the Twelve Steps. That is, if you are willing to go to ANY lengths, because that is what may very well be required of you. Joe - joep041699@mindspring.com


Member: Joe P
Location: Chicago
Remote Name: 209.86.101.52
Date: February 27, 2004
Time: 10:20 PM -0500

Comments

I was thinking of all of you tonight as I sat in the barber shop. No, that is not an analogy, I was really in the barbershop. The woman asked me what I wanted and I replied, “A hair cut”. Seemed funny to me at the time. But imagine, Friday night, and an alkie like me, who looked forward to nothing but drinking when Friday night rolled around, sitting in a barber shop stone cold sober getting a hair cut. And it seemed the most natural thing in the world for me to be doing. Stick around. Life is good, by God’s Grace and this program of Alcoholics Anonymous. Life without alcohol becomes the normal way to live. Joe - joep041699@mindspring.com


Member: jimr
Location: chicago
Remote Name: 69.3.222.147
Date: February 27, 2004
Time: 11:43 PM -0500

Comments

Bill, My advice might not be what you want to hear. You said yourself you been in and around this AA thing for years. It's time to get to work. Do what you don't want to do, get a sponsor and work the program. Don't be easy on yourself for once in your life. God and others can only help if your willing to seek that help.


Member: Ruby B
Location: In the mountains
Remote Name: 24.25.159.252
Date: February 28, 2004
Time: 11:32 AM -0500

Comments

Hi all, Well here i am at day 14!!!! This may not seem like a big deal to some of you but to me it means i have gone past the length of time i did before i relaplsed last time. Seems weird but all night last night i thought if i can make it through tonight i can keep doing this. i went to three meetings yesterday and spent the rest of my time surrounded by sober friends. you see i couldn't be alone because my biggest enemy can be myself. But here i am the sun is shining, went for a long walk with the hubby this am. (yesterday was our 11 year anniversary). he still loves me and i him but we know i need to continue with my program before we can make any plans for our future. but just for today God and I can do this. He'll provide the strength and I'll do the leg work. I have found if i put even a fraction of the energy i put into getting a drink into staying sober the rewards and blessings keep coming. (Bill) i was just like you and one month ago i reentered AA. unfortunately i was just talking the talk. Admitting to everyone else that i was powerless over drink and drugs but in reality wasn't accepting it myself. and i relapsed . it was unbelievably easy to just drink. Next day i came to this site and got a wake up call that i needed. God will help us to find snity and strength but we have to be willing to do the work. go to any lengths to stay away from drink. to listen to that tug inside that brings you here instead of your flesh that screams for a drink. my favorite saying is keep doing what you've always done ....keep getting what you've always gotten. don't know about you but now when i drink all i get is crap, dui's, regret, self-contempt, headaches, heartaches, and the list goes on and on. Stop doing what you're doing. God, AA and all of us and in the rooms are there for you but you have to be willing to be humble and admit to yourself you need us. Good luck and we're always here. (jim) Thanks again, i thought about you alot yesterday. (Ed, kim, everyone)) have a great weekend and stay sober and smiling. it is getting better. Love, minute to minute, Ruby


Member: KimM
Location: Florida
Remote Name: 66.32.91.170
Date: February 28, 2004
Time: 12:29 PM -0500

Comments

RUBY- Way to go, and keep coming back. I know you have what it takes to get sober and enjoy this gift that we have in our lives. I'll be praying for you with each passing day, so you are not alone in your struggles. Billy- HMMMM! So you have been around and around AA. And you keep coming back. Has anything changed since you go back out and come back in? Are you WILLING? Most people can accept all they want, but if we are not WILLING to go to any lengths or willing to be willing; it just doesn't work. I thought I was on top of my world, but I hit all of my bottoms in one consecutive moment. I was willing and still am.


Member: DaveT
Location: Michigan
Remote Name: 129.9.163.105
Date: February 28, 2004
Time: 05:37 PM -0500

Comments

Hi all from Germany. This is Dave in my 10th day of being sober. I have been in wet places the last 24 hours yet had no desire to drink. It is a miracle. I have not gone this long without drinking since I was 19. I am 44 now. It was great to read all your posts today. I have a few words to share on how I have been able to stay focused on going this long. When I was drinking, I spent so much time planning on when I could get away and drink as much as I wanted without accountability to my family and friends. Now I am focusing all that energy on planning to go to the next AA meeting. This really helps to get my mind off alcohol. Today I went to the place the AA meeting was supposed to be but no one was there. The posting must be old. Anyway, it was a great couple of hours of driving around in a Mercedes E-class singing praises to God and with joy in my heart. I pray all of you have a great and sober Sunday.


Member: Ed
Location: VA
Remote Name: 68.100.37.88
Date: February 28, 2004
Time: 10:43 PM -0500

Comments

DaveT - Just wanted to say good goin. Hope you have better luck finding other meetings. And watch it driving on the autobahn, I don't think we're used to the speeds they drive. Know I'm not. ((Ruby)) I'm really proud of you. I have confidence you can make it. But beware, there will be some more tough times to come. The program, the AA friends you make, and God will see you through -- but you (and I) are the one who actually has to make it through. Ed


Member: jimr
Location: chicago
Remote Name: 68.164.228.196
Date: February 29, 2004
Time: 02:19 AM -0500

Comments

For next week... a sugestion for a topic or series of topics in the comming week instead of cliches and sayings. How about outlining the big book with topics relating to each chapter starting with "The Doctors Opinion" Possible topic for that chapter could be: Alcoholism is a disease of the body, mind and spirit. Group conscious or a request to the topic czar? hehehe best wishes to all!


Member: Shannon
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Remote Name: 64.12.96.103
Date: February 29, 2004
Time: 12:19 PM -0500

Comments

Shannon the alcoholic from Milwaukee venturing back into the fold. I alway seem to re-emerge on Sunday morning and find myself trying to get in on the meeting right at the butt end. Wet place and drinking occasions are all around me. A home and bar drinker, living in beer city. I struggle to make the changes I need to and I keep failing at it. I was charged with assault in January and had the good fortune to have the charges dropped. Monday I was stopped and charged with OWI (also known as DWI or DUI) and possession of THC. I have only been driving since I was 29 (now 34), I used to be a smarter alcoholic, so this is my 1st. Though I have driven drunk countless times. I cannot seem to get myself sober. I pray and try and cry and hope, but it all goes down the toilet the minute I decide a beer sounds like just the thing. And I seem to decide that most days. For years I rationalized that if I only drink beer, it isn't like being a hardcore alcoholic. Have even had folks at AA meetings back me up on that logic (truly). But 12 beers as a starter before going out just isn't sane. Poison is poison and the black outs and crazy behavior are just as destructive, whether fueled by hops or grain. I will keep trying. Now, I have today sober. I can keep myself sober for just today. Just this one day. Thanks again for listening to me! Shannon


Member: Bob W
Location: Grimsby UK
Remote Name: 62.254.0.30
Date: February 29, 2004
Time: 02:34 PM -0500

Comments

Shannon, If only drinking beer means your not a hardcore Alcoholic, then I'm the Pope!! I have never realy had the taste for spitits (just the odd shot on special occasions)but have always (since leaving school) drunk plenty of beer. If I was on night shifts I would make sure there was at least a gallon of beer in the house for breakfast. If I was on afternoons (2pm - 10pm) then I'd make sure there was PLENTY in for when the pubs closed and, of course for breakfast. When I was on the early shift, well do I have to say? So yes, just drinking beer can make you a hardcore Alcoholic believe me. And anybody that tells you different IS A FOOL!!! Stay Sober Bob W.