Member: Patty F.
Location: Chicago
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 4:16:22 PM

Comments

Hi! My name is Patty and I am an alcoholic. I would like to talk about powerlessness. I have come to see that this does not only pertain to alcohol but most especially to people. I can not make some body do something just because it may be easier for me if they conform to my way of life. I must find a way to accept all people as being exactly the way they are supposed to be for my own spiritual well being. To do this I must once again admit just how powerless I really am.


Member: Michelle V.
Location: Chicago
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 4:24:21 PM

Comments

Hi, Michelle, an alcoholic. Patty, I really like your topic. I am learning through the progam of AA that I am powerless over most things external to myself and am beginning to find that if I quit struggling when I have a problem and admit my "defeat" it empowers me. Getting to that point, though, takes a long time and I must go through all sorts of pain and struggle before I am ready to "give up." Once I do, though, things are so much easier. It's like they always tell us, live in the solution not in the problem. Thanks for sharing.


Member: Stan B
Location: Delaware
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 4:25:27 PM

Comments

Hi I am Stan B. Well they did it to me again (the cyber techs) they deleted my posting for a new topic. I will try again. I would like to discuss the concept of "not being a door mat" anymore.

When I first got sober many years ago, I was far from being a door mat. In fact no one could tell me anything because I was so darn smart. As time went on in the program, I learned that that kind of attitude only caused me more problems and I began to work on myself through the steps. The unfortunate part for me was that I went to the other extreme with it and became a "door mat" for my wife. I let her pretty much treat me like s__t because I really thought I deserved it after all the years of junk she put up with. So I spent a lot of miserable years in that marriage letting her manipulate me through fear.

As I continued to work the steps, I finally got to a point where I understood that AA does not advocate that we become door mats and allow ourselves to be treated badly. Through these steps I am now on a more balanced level. I left the marriage just recently and I have never been more sure about it being the right choice for me. My wife continues to try and guilt me into coming back but I refuse to go back and try to suffer through a marriage that is clearly over. It infuriates her that I don't let her control me anymore. I wish her the best and I do not hold any resentment toward her, but I am 100 percent sure that I will not allow myself to be her door mat anymore. For that matter I know now that I am not required to be anyone's door mat.

This program and working the steps gave me the courage and strength to finally do what I had to do. Along those lines, I have grown tremendously and I feel great that I am not in that "poor me" crap anymore. I am worth more than being someone's door mat. It took me a long time to realize that I needed to balance things out and I am very greatful that it has finally happened.

Thanks for letting me share (again) and pick the topic for the week. The topic of acceptance was starting to get to me and I really didn't want to do another week of it.

Merry Christmas to you all.

Stanb2001@aol.com


Member: Craigc
Location:
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 4:36:17 PM

Comments

Hi Patty I'm Craig and I am an alchol. I know what you mean on people and being powerless over them, however I do believe most people are good or have some good in them. There are many things in our life we have no power over the quicker we accept that the smoother our lives go. Probably not the answer you are looking for but I am sure many people feel the same way.


Member: Andi
Location: WI
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 4:58:46 PM

Comments

Andi here alcoholic. Stan I did notice that you posted earlier and then it was deleted. Nothing against your topic Patty but I am more driven this week to talk about Stan's topic since he did post earlier and was a victim of the cyber techs and also since powerlessness seems to be the topic here almost every other week.

I am no longer a doormat is a great way for me to start this week. I have been in the same situation as you Stan (as you know) and I learned very early on that being someone's doormat only allows us alcoholics to continue with the self beatings. I was a doormat when I drank and stayed that way when I got sober. My first sponsor called it humility. It wasn't until the pain got to be too much that I finally realized it was far from being humility. It was humiliation! There is a big difference between the two and it took having to find a new sponsor and working the steps vigorously before I realized that fact. I found out that I did not have to tolerate anybody else's crap, period!

I made some very bold changes in my life as a result of finding my balance with it. And I will say that I have never been happier. Thanks to God for this program's 12 steps and for giving me the right sponsor who finally allowed me to grow on my own. This truely is a blessing.

Merry Xmas to you all.


Member: Nancy R.
Location: Ponchatoula, La
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 4:59:57 PM

Comments

Hi! I'm Nancy and I'm an alcoholic. Good choice Patty. Powerlessness has always been a problem for me. It's hard for me to accept that I have no control over others. But I have learned that even though I can't change them, If I change the way I respond to them, they usually treat me differently. I used to play a victem role. People will be happy to abuse you if you allow it. When I stopped allowing it, they stopped the behavior. Acceptance is the key.


Member: Avril G
Location: Northampton UK, for now
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 5:26:58 PM

Comments

I also go along with STAN and his topic of no longer being a doormat. I have had an experience this week whereby I am spending time with my new boyfriend, with a view to moving South to set up home with him in the new Year. One fly in the ointment has been his ex-wife (She is an alcoholic) and her partner (also a heavy drinker) being unable to control my guys two sons, aged 8 and 6yrs old, so Alec had to go out to take them out of a drunken brawl situation, and bring them back here to stay for a few days. The eldest is obviously a very affected individual, and very badly behaved, and his mother seized the opportunity of leaving them with us for almost the whole week, until I decided enough was enough. This little guy has a mission, I believe. He mistakenly believes that if he plays everyone off against each other, his mother's partner will run, and I will also run, and then maybe his mum and dad will get back together. As soon as I sussed this out, I tackled him about it, and told him in no uncertain terms that I was NOT going to be dictated to by any 8yr old, and he coiuld either take our house rules or stay away. (I did discuss this with my guy first, and have his full support in this, and the situation was resolved when I asked his mother to collect them, and told her that we would not be available for any rescue mission if the same thing happened again, as we have a life to live also, and I hadn't come here to babysit two kids whilst she got pissed. I doubt I have gained any Brownie points with anyone but my guy, Alec, but he is the one I am here for, no-one else, and today I am worth more than this, and no longer lay down and let every Tom, Dick or Harry walk all over me.

I am no longer a head-nodder, just so people will love me (or even like me a little bit) You either like me or not. I really don't mond either way, because I LIKE ME. My two daughters and my family, and now my new guy love me to bits, and I know this, and anyone else is secondary. I am happy to be able to stand up for what is right for me today, and if anyone else has problems with that, well, they will have to deal with it.

Good Topic, Stan, and Patty's too, but as Andi stated, Powerlessness DOES seem to crop up quite a lot. Thanks for being there for me and letting me share.


Member: Steve Johns
Location: Maine
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 5:35:49 PM

Comments

Yep, you are right Andi. Stan posted first and I posted right after him, but I guess mine got deleted by the phantom too. I hope we can stay on subject of being a "doormat" because I really need to get some ideas about it. While I think powerlessness is a great topic I am in great need of hearing others talk about this doormat subject.

I am in the middle of a big deal in my life right now. My first instinct is to lay down and just let everyone walk all over me because I don't think I deserve better. I keep confusing humility with humiliation, just like you said Andi and because I let this happen, I convince myself in my mind that just taking a drink would be easier than dealing with all this. I am so sick of letting other people control me and walk all over me but I don't know how to stop it. My sponsor and I have been working real hard on the first 3 steps and I am now staring my 4th step which might help. But right now this situation is just beating me up all over.

I would welcome hearing how some of you were able to stop blaming yourselves for all the bad things that happen and if anyone out there had visions of taking a drink because of it. Am I the only one who feels like this? Oh well, I thank you for the topic Stan B, it really hit me hard when I read it.

Thank you for letting me share.


Member: Problemjohn
Location: near Kirkfield, Ontario
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 6:36:19 PM

Comments

Hi I'm an alcoholic and my problem is John About powerlessness this way of life has taught me that I am better to accept others as they are I don't have to agree with their verbage or their actions, nor do I have to judge them, better my efforts are directed towards myself, and trying to be a better person.


Member: Jim A
Location: Chester, CT.
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 6:42:47 PM

Comments

Hi, my name is Jim and I am an alcoholic. First time here and it is great to be here. Although I have a few twenty four hour of sobriety I am new here and any topic sounds right. Thanks for the sharing Patty and Stan. Today I do realize that I am powerless over everything except for that first drink. If I take that one though, then the story is over. I know that. Then I will become a doormat for everyone and everything. It is so much better today. Even though I didn't drink as much as many, it messed up all aspects of my life.

Thanks for letting me share.


Member: JCP  ^|^
Location: Penn's Woods
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 7:33:41 PM

Comments

What about "justifiable" anger? If somebody cheats us, aren't we entitled to be mad? And shouldn't we be properly angry with self-righteous folks?--As Bill Sees It, 309

J here, a grateful alcoholic: What good can it do to whack somebody else over the head with my sobriety. They did not make me drink. I carried a big chip for awhile, relative even to other members of my groups.

Never won anything this way, but in time it goes away, or shrinks to more nearly normal. However, all words and actions have consequences. The other person has not become inferior to a dry drunk like me, either.

Similarly--the urgent powerlessness is over alcohol. Given a release from that, other things can yield. Besides what I cannot change there is much that can be changed if I face up. Then there's always the catch: the wisdom to know the difference. It comes from only one place.

Time takes time. Happy holidays.


Member: kathyk
Location: pa
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 7:57:38 PM

Comments

Hey Gang, I think that these two subjects are connected. I have a PHD in Doormat and almost always feel powerless. After great amounts of thinking I have come to the conclusion that I was taught this way of life. If I don't do what this other person wants, even though I hate it to the core, then they won't like or even worse yet, love me. My brother,13 years sober tells me that I got thru life with benevolence, he got thru with a gift of bulls--t. I have been a doormat for years because I was so afraid of hurting some one and losing their love. I am finally realizing that I am entitled to be who I am and pursue my likes and a career and if people find that hard to accept(while they are doing what they want to do), then they have the problem. I am 48 and have lived my life worrying what other people would think. What a damn waste. Let them think what they want. A few years ago I read a quote that said something to the effect...I may not agree with what you say, but I defend your right to say it. Maybe if we all took that as gospel and loved each other for the true self( maybe if some of us had the strength to be their true selves..like me) we would have an easier time. I love reading all this stuff. I apply it in my life as well as I can. I have taken a stand with my husband of 18 years, who is having a hard time with a less than agreeing wife right now. AA is wonderful until it upsets his life a little. I am a very newbie, yet I know that the only way I will not take another drink is to stand up for me, so that I don't have all those regrets and then start to feel sorry for me, which makes that first drink ever so easy. Love to all. Thanks for letting me bitch. KK


Member: kevinm
Location: fl
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 8:47:03 PM

Comments

We are sure God wants us to be happy, joys, and free. We cannot subscribe to the belief that this life ia a vale of tears,though it once was just that for many of us. bb,pg 133, Here are thousands of men and women, worldy indeed. They flatly declare that since they have come to believe in a Power greater than themselves,to take a certain attitude toward that Power,and to do certain simple things, there has been a revolutionary change in their way of living and thinking. In the face of collapse and despair, in the face of the total failure of their human resources,they found that a new power, peace happiness, and sense of direction flowed into them. This happened soon after they whole heartedly met a few simple requirements. bb. pg 50 After almost five years of being sober a co-worker of mine who i had shared some of my fifth step with, some ugly facts about myself, shared them with my boss, they imeditaly started to find a way of dismissing me , the boss had also become a pretty good friend, this all changed thanks to few wrong words at the wrong time, after 20yrs of service I lost about six months of sleep, worrying about what I could not change, the God of my understanding carried me the whole time, when I could carry myself, self pity, despair, fear of losing what i had swept back into my life, It was one hard ass time, but by the grace of God and aa I did not drink, today things are better, not like they were but better, it is only when my ass falls completely off am I willing to learn, this is still a truth for me. Maybe some day I will understand that I am powerless over everything except drinking, if I don't pick up the first one, I never seem to get drunk, thanks for letting me share, merry christmas


Member: john h
Location: abbotsford
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 9:25:42 PM

Comments

hi and merry xmas to all. john h and i am an alcoholic. with respect to "being a doormat" i am convinced that after becoming aware of who i am and what i feel, i am less in need off having people around me who need me and who will at times attempt to have me do "things their way". living with the 12 steps and traditions on a daily basis has taught me that on occasion that i really can decide to "not play the game anymore" and to walk off the field. Life gets better and accepting that at times i was not the best person to be around when drinking, but having made numerous amends, i feel that i am in a position to choose how i want to live my life today.


Member: Jim C.
Location: Anaheim, Calif.
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 9:29:31 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Jim, and I am a very grateful alcoholic. Someone earlier mentioned that the two topics of powerlessness, and not being a doormat were in someway related.

In my mind, most of the people we are powerless over, are the ones that we allow to treat us as doormats. It seems that way to me.

What I have tried to do is to set boundries with most of the things in my life, and then pray for the guidance and strength to stick by those boundries. In the past, I have allowed myself to be a doormat, out of guilt and the fear that if I made waves, people would not love me. Living with the terrible fear of being alone, I set myself up to be everybody's doormat.

Through a long process of first realizing how powerless I am over the people, places, and things in my life, then setting boundries and doing my best to enforce them, and most important, realizing that I was worthy of better things, I finally have begun to love the most important person in my life, ME. When I could do that, my life got immeasurably better.

People are going to be people, and there is nothing I can do to change them. Places and things are just that. The only thing I can change is how I respond. I try to do it in a manner that I am comfortable with. I go to a lot of meetings, I read the book, and I talk to my sponsor, and of course I pray a lot. By doing these things, I have been fortunate to have been sober for 19 years.

After all of these years, I am still learning, and I want to continue to learn. I thank everyone who offers their stories to this program. It lets me know that I am in the right place. (Kathy in pa.) You keep up the good work. I believe that you have found the right place in Alcoholic's Anonymous, and if you keep coming back, your life will most certainly be different, and will likely get quite a bit better.

Thank all of you for allowing me to share, and I hope that everyone has a wonderful Holiday Season. God Bless..........


Member: Virginia
Location: B
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 9:44:59 PM

Comments

I will be 10 years sober in 2 weeks. I am haviung to find the strength to walk away from my home group and begin to find meetings in other places because I have allowed myself to be a doormat to everyone and they seem to be punishing me for finally finding my own worth and not letting them dictate my actions. Tjis has been a very scary time but I am sure that I will have to make the change or eventually get drunk behind a whole lot of resentment. Spo, painful as it may be, I must grow and become who God intended me to be. Thanks for listening. Feedback is always a welcome thing.


Member: D.S.
Location: wash
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 10:00:47 PM

Comments

D.S. alcoholic the 4th step brought out alot of the truth about myself, and when I was able to see the truth about myself,I started to the see the true and false in others. what an awsome thing to learn,then I saw things like, how far people would go to convince me thier bulls--t was the truth. I saw how resentments blocked me from being true to myself,I saw how fear blocked me. ect. I could increase the list ad infinitum. so wonce I was able to see the truth I didnt have to be anyones door mat anymore, unless I choose to. but I do have to practice one thing ''to thine own self be true''. if Im doing anything less Im living someone elses expereace here on earth....


Member: MARYS
Location: FL
Date: 12/19/99
Time: 11:53:44 PM

Comments

HI MARYS I AM AN ALCOHOLIC. FOR MOST OF MY LIFE, I FELT "LESS THAN". I FEEL THIS WAS MOST INSTRUMENTAL IN MY BEING A DOORMAT. I FELT THAT I WOULD NOT BE ACCEPTED IF I SAID "NO" WHEN I WANTED TO SAY NO AND DIDN'T HAVE THE COURAGE. THE PROGRAM HAS TAUGHT ME THAT I AM A WORTHWHILE HUMAN BEING,THAT I HAVE VALUE AND DON'T HAVE TO COMPROMISE MY INTEGRITY. I CAN GIVE SOMETHING OF MYSELF WITHOUT GIVING MYSELF AWAY. I DO THINGS NOW BECAUSE I WANT TO NOT BECAUSE I HAVE TO. IT FEELS GOOD TO DO SOMETHING FOR SOMEONE. IT IS GOOD TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT SITUATIONS AND REALIZE THAT THEY ARE NOT RIGHT FOR ME, AND BE ABLE TO SAY NO THANKS AND NOT FELL THE FEAR.


Member: Bones L
Location: RI
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 1:21:01 AM

Comments

Hi I'm Bones and I'm an alcoholic. I'm a beginner just two days sober who recently discovered all the fellowship on the web. With regard to powerlessness: it seems to me that I did not choose to become an alcoholic, or the sort of drinker I am, and was very confused for some time because I only had a FEW horror stories, but a general and worsening dis ease as time went on. My point is, like Jim A in CT, I did not drink as much as some, yet am still in need of help. I was so afraid I'd miss all my society if I left my pub, but here y'all are! Thank you for your help. We never know what little bit of our story might help one of us through another day, and Jim reminded me today as I was slipping into denial, that we are powerless over the particular type of alcoholism we face.


Member: robert j.
Location: sunporch
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 2:38:20 AM

Comments

You mean humiliation and humility are not one in the same?..great topic, Kathy and Jim I loved what you guys shared, thanks for bein here for me,take care.


Member: KEN     N.
Location: KELOWNA     CANADA
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 2:51:06 AM

Comments

YOU PICKED A VERY GOOD TOPIC. I PERSONALY THINK WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT RELAPSING BECAUSE OF THE TIME OF YEAR & PEOPLE DO HAVE A HARD TIME WITH THERE XMAS & SOBRITY< I DO KNOW FOR A FACT PEOPLE WHO REALLY A REAL BAD TIME THIS TIME OF YEAR . I WISH EVERYBODY A HAPPY & SOBER XMAS THIS YEAR THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME SHARE & MY NAME IS KEN & I HAVE BEEN APOUND AA FOR 21 YEARS & XMAS IS REALLY HARD PLEASE HELP ANOTHER PERSON IN & OUT OF THE PROGRAM THANK U ALL & MERRY XMAS


Member: KEN     N.
Location: KELOWNA     CANADA
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 2:52:31 AM

Comments

YOU PICKED A VERY GOOD TOPIC. I PERSONALY THINK WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT RELAPSING BECAUSE OF THE TIME OF YEAR & PEOPLE DO HAVE A HARD TIME WITH THERE XMAS & SOBRITY< I DO KNOW FOR A FACT PEOPLE WHO REALLY A REAL BAD TIME THIS TIME OF YEAR . I WISH EVERYBODY A HAPPY & SOBER XMAS THIS YEAR THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME SHARE & MY NAME IS KEN & I HAVE BEEN APOUND AA FOR 21 YEARS & XMAS IS REALLY HARD PLEASE HELP ANOTHER PERSON IN & OUT OF THE PROGRAM THANK U ALL & MERRY XMAS


Member: Michael R.
Location: San Diego
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 3:38:54 AM

Comments

Michael alcoholic. I think you are a doormat when you dont have a true genuine love and respect for yourself. You base your self-worth on how you think others perceive you. Through working the steps we learn to love ourselves again. I need to remember that other people may be sick too and not become emotionally involved with them. Respect and love yourself first.


Member: Lee C.
Location: Eastern US
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 6:54:52 AM

Comments

Hello to all of you

Welcome to Jim in CT and to Bones - *very big smile* I am new here also. I just arrived back from vacation (cold turkey from net access) and appreciate everyone's ongoing searching discussions.

I am indeed powerless over alcohol, and a long list thereof. However, I do remember that my actions and words have the potential to influence change in others; perhaps not on my time, or perhaps not in the ways I might have expected...but nonetheless, there are several things that I am not powerless over - if I percieve myself as a "doormat" it may signify a desire and capability to affect change.

To Steve Johns...I try to keep bringing into my consciousness that I am changing the past as I type these words, because this site and the words I've read on it have now become part of my past, and the words I add are on thier way to becoming part of your past, and many others who I can't even imagine...every meeting I attend, I am changing the past, every newcomer I work with, I am changing the past. With this in mind, I realize that what I've done can't be changed, but what I do can be - *grin* sometimes I confuse myself in this particular line of somewhat philosophical reasoning.

To Ken - in my limited experience and strength (but lots of hope), holidays can be a tough time. Because I know they are stressful for me, whether I feel good or bad that particular year, I make it point to go to a couple more meetings than usual, and keep close contact with other people, a Higher Power, and with my self.

Hmmm, sounds simplistic. Maybe it is - yet I have enjoyed several Christmases sober. And geez,*rolls eyes* I know that sounds a little cliche - at any rate, I find that the Big Book refers that we should keep our head in the clouds with God, and our feet firmly planted on the ground --- remain vigilant in our sobriety while also in prayer kind of paradox.

Thanks to all for letting me listen and share - Merry Christmas!


Member: Lel S.
Location: New Mexico
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 7:57:08 AM

Comments

Happy holidays to you all - I think the two topics of powerlessness and being a doormat go hand-in-hand. Some people think being powerless means giving your power away and thus let otherr walk all over them, become "people pleasers" - this kind of seems like a CODA topic which is alright with me since we had to close our meeting this past week - everyone wanted the meeting to be there but no one was willing to commit to come everyweek or help chair - but that's a CODA issue- AA teaches us that we're powerless over people/places/things - we get the power from GOD to take action in our own lives (make choices) but we have to let others do the same - that's the tough part.


Member: Robert  B.
Location: Boise  Idaho
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 8:33:16 AM

Comments

Hi. My name is Robert and I am an alcoholic.

I arrived at the doors of AA utterly beaten. Through the process of recovery I found that I can walk through life with my head up and look my fellows in the eye without hesitation. As recovery has healed my mind, body, and spirit, fewer people have felt the inclination to attempt to use me. As I have grown in recovery the urge to use others has fallen away.

The admission of powerlessness has proven to be a gift. As I grew to accept the aid and guidance of a power greater than myself, I became empowered by the spirit. Whether in the Fellowship or in the mainstream of life, being empowered by the spirit allows me the freedom to see fools and sages as my equals... to meet all men and women at eye level. I no longer need to greet each new person looking for an advantage, a weak spot, or a threat.

There is freedom in recovery: Freedom from the bondage of self; freedom from the numbing indignity if drunkeness; freedom from being a victim; freedom from needing a victim to use.

Peace Robert


Member: Jean-Claude T.
Location: Belgium
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 8:35:27 AM

Comments

My name is JC and I’m an alcoholic.

Thanks for the topics, Patty and Stan. They’re complementary for me also. Powerless over people, of course, I will not change them or their ways of thinking. But on the other hand, I have the right to have my opinion and my way of seeing things. When I drank I was always trying to get forgiveness in doing everything I was told to please others, ‘til the next binge. Being sober, I have nothing more to be forgiven (at least if I try and live the Steps in my everyday life), and certainly not the fact of having a disease.

I have to accept my powerlessness over things and people I cannot change, but I must have the courage to change the things I can. One thing I can change is my relations with other people, by listening to them, then expose my point, with calm and not trying to stress them at first hand like I did before. As for the wisdom to know the difference, ...... I must admit I don’t have it everyday.

Thanks for letting me share. Merry Xmas, stay safe. jc.toller@euronet.be - ICQ 36308407.


Member: Another Stan
Location: Outside the construction trailor
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 9:46:42 AM

Comments

I too agree these two topics are interconnected. When I ACCEPT that I am POWERLESS over people,places,things and I turn my life over to His Will I take the first step towards serenity. When my attitude is focused on gratitude I don't have to stinkythinky my way into feeling like I am a doormat.


Member: Barry W.
Location: Michigan
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 11:12:58 AM

Comments

Hello everyone, I'm Barry and I'm a commom ordinary drunk. Good topics. What was most helpful to me regarding these issues came after an inventory. BB pg.76 ...we then look at Step Six. We have emphasized willingness as being indispensable. Are we now ready to let god remove from us all the things which we have admitted are objectionable? Can he now take them all-every one? If we still cling to something we will not let go, we ask god to help us be willing. When ready, we say something like this:"My creator, I am now willing that you should have all of me, good and bad. I pray that you now remove from me every single defect of character which stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant me strengh, as I go out from here, to do your bidding. amen." We have then completed Step Seven. Merry Christmas everyone and a special thank you to the members doing service work so that this sight could be here.


Member: Bill T
Location: KY
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 11:49:52 AM

Comments

Bill here alcoholic. Well ive got something to say here, I want to talk about this doormat stuff. I treated people horrible when I was drinking. So you think I'm gonna get sober and all the sudden I'm just Gods gift to the world? I don't think so, I can still be a jerk sober. And most of the time when I'm being treated like sh__ by others its because i've pissed someone off or im trying to exert my will on someone and they're not liking it. Now there is such a thing as unacceptable behavior and this is when for example someone breaks the law, for example assaulting me or damaging property, and i will call the authorities but in othert cases I must look for my wrongs and attempt to correct myself. As for powerless, I am not powerless over my life anymore, with Gods guidance I am empowered to do his will.


Member: tony g
Location: ma
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 11:53:44 AM

Comments

hi tony alcoholic,my higher power is my consultant(God)i bring my concerns to him.you really grow in this program,day by day,not by just reading it but by doing it,practicing these principles in all our affairs. i have some continuous sobriety and i'm still powerless to alcohol,but i'm being the person i was intended to be.if someone wants to treat you like a doormat...pray forthat person everyday...pray that they have the same things you would want.....merry christmas to all,and your family's and freinds


Member: Mike
Location: Here & There
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 1:05:49 PM

Comments

Good stuff here. To Bill T, no where does it say that once we get sober we become God's gift to the world. Conversely, it is also not written anywhere that we are to accept being treated badly by other controlling people. Give me a break here, you sound as if you are saying that we deserve to be walked all over!

You are missing the point that I think Stan B is trying to get across. Self love! We spend so much time hating ourselves and thinking we don't deserve good things in our lives and then we wonder why we relapse or we can't seem to be happy in our lives. There comes a time in sobriety that we must learn to finally love ourselves and stop the insanity of thinking we deserve to live in constant pain and suffering. I drank to relieve such distressful feelings about myself and honestly I would drink again if I believed that that was all I had to look forward to (constant pain and suffering). The 12 steps are designed to help us get to the point of loving ourselves not staying in that continuous self destructive cycle of seeking other people's acceptance and approval and basing our self worth on their opinions and actions.

Stan B., you must be true to yourself and that dear friend is the only way to freedom and happiness. Don't let your wife bully you into thinking that your choices are worthless. They are not. It is sad that she is hurt but sacrificing your love of self and the joyous life God wants for you would be worse. It is clear that if she is trying to control you by threatening you she herself is in alot of fear. Fear is a rejection of God. It says to your HP that you do not trust the path that He has shown you. The fact that you made your choice Stan and you are feeling good about it speaks very loudly to God. I TRUST YOU! Good luck. I know that it is hard but do not let anyone wipe their boots on you. You are worth more than that.


Member: Dianne
Location: mt. top
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 6:13:00 PM

Comments

Dianne here,alcoholic. Our sister program has helped me with the powerlessness an doormat issues in my life.I now consider myself a double winner. Happy holidays and stay sober.


Member: Tedd T.
Location: Omaha, NE
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 8:07:09 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Tedd, and I'm an alcoholic. When I was drinking, I never knew what the word powerless meant. Heck, I was powerful. Everything was my way or the highway. But then the alcohol stopped flowing, and I realized something...I was powerless. I wanted a drink so bad, I could taste it. And in life in general, I wanted to be in control. I wanted people to act a certain way, but somehow they didn't want to. I guess when I was drinking, I just didn't care. Now I do. Thanks.


Member: Pattw/2tees
Location: Oregon
Date: 12/20/99
Time: 11:59:33 PM

Comments

Hi, all, Patt, grateful recovering alcoholic. I find the subjects are very closely connected, thank you both for suggesting them. I am powerless, but not HELPless. I have the program to tell me how to live my life, with the help of my Higher Power. I do not roll over and play dead for anyone, nor do I think anyone wants me to. If they do, they're in for a rude shock. I try to treat others the way I would like to be treated and expect that today. If someone is unkind to me or tries to manipulate me it is not in the least bit necessary for me to go along with that kind of behavior. I will not allow it, and I used to allow all kinds of foolishness. Today, I don't feel it's necessary to be a chameleon--I am changing, but that is a process that I ask my God to help me with, not something that is imposed on me by others. There needn't be any anger involved with saying, "Stop." As our sister program suggests we say, "This behavior is unacceptable." (Sometimes I have to tell MYSELF that.)

Thanks for letting me share. "Trust God, clean house, help others."

Hugs, Patt


Member: kevinm
Location: fl
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 12:58:06 AM

Comments

to the new comer, keep coming back WE need you!! i need you, This to shall pass, i can't count how many times i heard that, but it was true, it does pass, (TIME) things i must earn,Recovery begins when one alki talks with another,don't drink and go to lots of meetings, let go, hang on, seems you guys talk in circles the first few months i came in, or was it the fog in what brain i had left, not sure, but i am sure of this, if i don't pick up that first drink i don't ever seem to get drunk, that was a very hard concept for this alki to understand, my sponcer told me he has never seen some to stupid to get this thing, but plenty of people to smart to get it, i then became very willing to listen to learn, learn to listen, slowly but very slowly recovery started, thaank you all for being here, cause i am not all there yet, merry christmas, happy new year, stay sober no matter what, don't drink and go to meetings, help another alki, God bless all of you!!


Member: amy
Location:
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 12:23:52 PM

Comments

Hi i'm amy and i'm an alcoholic. Thanks for all the dicussion. I have been to some meetings lately but have not been able to talk. I'm real ashamed that i have drank again. Been in and out of the program for the last 17 years. Have put years together at times but do not understand what makes me think i can do things differently. i know that AA is the only thing that has worked for me. Last time i was sober an oldtimer told me to read the first step in the 12 and 12: "...accepting this disease and all it's devastating consequences..." This is where i'm at right now. I need willingness. Say a prayer for me. Merry Christmas and thanks for letting me share


Member: Barbara G
Location: Maine
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 12:30:00 PM

Comments

Happy Holidays everyone, I am Barbara and I am always one drink away from the last drunk. My higher power whom I choose to call God never lets me forget that truth. On the topic of powerlessness: It has been my experience that the only person that I can change is myself and that is a difficult undertaking----once I got that part and began to work on changing my thinking , my friends, my attitude, my places to go for fun, my beliefs about alcohol and what it really did to me and my life----I came to realize that getting to that place where I could understand powerlessness and door mat stuff is a process. I came to recovery and boy did I think that you people were whacky. The first drink never got this drunk drunk, grateful for being an alcoholic, yeah, sickoes, powerless, not me. Repetetion was such a darn waste of my time. My thoughts were always negative and warped. I did keep coming back and the process of recovery kicked in about eight months into my daily attendance at meetings. I began to realize that these powerless whacks were staying sober for extended periods of time and I was struggling to stay away from that one drink that would get me back on the battlefield with alcohol. Well folks, I am now a powerless, grateful, repitious, sober, somewhat sane recovering alcoholic. I will celebrate 11 years of sober living in June of 2000. I can only win the war with alcohol by staying tuned to other recovering alcoholics that have a desire to stay sober for one day. Soberiety is a process and never an event. It takes courage and desire that passes all understanding. It has been a worthwhile journey for me. If I can stay sober and do whatever it takes to change me, then I don't have the time to allow people, places or things to have any power or control over me and my preciously serene life today. I read, I write, I pray, I talk to other recovering alcoholics and I never, ever forget that I am powerless over alcohol. The only way that I can win the war with alcohol is to die sober. I did battle with it for 29 years and lost every battle until I found you and others like you who were willing to share their experience, strength and hope with me inspite of my warped opinions. I am now a whacko recovering alcoholic who says that I am grateful to be a recovering alcoholic with the willingness to change everything that I have to change to remain sober for one day.


Member: Barbara G
Location: Maine
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 12:30:03 PM

Comments

Happy Holidays everyone, I am Barbara and I am always one drink away from the last drunk. My higher power whom I choose to call God never lets me forget that truth. On the topic of powerlessness: It has been my experience that the only person that I can change is myself and that is a difficult undertaking----once I got that part and began to work on changing my thinking , my friends, my attitude, my places to go for fun, my beliefs about alcohol and what it really did to me and my life----I came to realize that getting to that place where I could understand powerlessness and door mat stuff is a process. I came to recovery and boy did I think that you people were whacky. The first drink never got this drunk drunk, grateful for being an alcoholic, yeah, sickoes, powerless, not me. Repetetion was such a darn waste of my time. My thoughts were always negative and warped. I did keep coming back and the process of recovery kicked in about eight months into my daily attendance at meetings. I began to realize that these powerless whacks were staying sober for extended periods of time and I was struggling to stay away from that one drink that would get me back on the battlefield with alcohol. Well folks, I am now a powerless, grateful, repitious, sober, somewhat sane recovering alcoholic. I will celebrate 11 years of sober living in June of 2000. I can only win the war with alcohol by staying tuned to other recovering alcoholics that have a desire to stay sober for one day. Soberiety is a process and never an event. It takes courage and desire that passes all understanding. It has been a worthwhile journey for me. If I can stay sober and do whatever it takes to change me, then I don't have the time to allow people, places or things to have any power or control over me and my preciously serene life today. I read, I write, I pray, I talk to other recovering alcoholics and I never, ever forget that I am powerless over alcohol. The only way that I can win the war with alcohol is to die sober. I did battle with it for 29 years and lost every battle until I found you and others like you who were willing to share their experience, strength and hope with me inspite of my warped opinions. I am now a whacko recovering alcoholic who says that I am grateful to be a recovering alcoholic with the willingness to change everything that I have to change to remain sober for one day.


Member: Curt M.
Location: N.Y.
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 12:59:00 PM

Comments

Hi everyone, my name is Curt, I'm an alcoholic. I'm rather new to the program, and I liked what Ken N. brought up. I'm going to have a hard time with the holidays this year because I'm alone. But I do have a lot of wonderful people in the program that I can lean on. I expect it won't be easy, but I will make it through. Thanks to you all for being there, and Happy Holidays!


Member: alan d
Location:
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 2:03:10 PM

Comments

Hi, im alan ive been in the fellowship for yearsbut am sober only 5 weeks and have discovered aa on the net about 5 mins ago good to know its there


Member: APRIL C.
Location: LB.CALIF.
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 3:08:59 PM

Comments

HI IM APRIL,ALCOHOLIC.(IM BEGINNING TO THINK THAT'S MY LAST NAME!) IVE BEEN IN AND OUT OF THE PROGRAM FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS. I'M 26 YRS OLD AND HAVE SUCH A HARD TIME DEALING WITH THE POWERLESSNESS I HAVE OVER ALCOHOL.IVE RECENTLY "FALLEN OFF THE WAGON" AND IT LOOKS AS THOUGH MY COVER IS BLOWN- THAT IS, MY FAMILY HAS FOUND OUT. AFTER MANY YEARS AND MANY REHABS WE'VE ALL HOPED THAT I COULD NOW BE CURED!! BUT IT SEAMS AS THOUGH KING ALCOHOL HAS FOUND ME. I WAS/AM VERY MUCH THE "CHAP" WHO WHISTLES IN THE DARK...I THOUGHT BECAUSE NOW THAT I AM MARRIED AND HAVE A WONDERFUL DAUGHTER THAT I WOULDNT DARE BECOME POWERLESS OVER ALCOHOL AGAIN.IM GLAD YOU ARE ALL HERE. IT IS LIKE A LIGHT PEERING INTO A VERY DARKENED ROOM. THANKS AND GOD BLESS.


Member: Tom A. 7/25/60
Location: Carlisle, AR
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 3:23:42 PM

Comments

Good Afternon!

A Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all who read and post on Staying Cyber's discussion meeting. My name is Tom A. a grateful sober alcoholic today, by the grace of a wonderful Higher Power and this fellowship we call A.A.

Thank you Patty F. and Stan B. for givng us two good topics. I can relate to both of them and I suspect that they have much in common as some have mentioned. Early in my sobriety someone suggested that I buy a dictionary and when I had trouble with words to look them up and when I seen these two words I found it necessary to look them up. My dictionary said that powerlessness was a noun meaning lack of power. Seems as though I've read that somewhere in our literature that our delemma was "lack of power" and that we needed to find another source of Power and I believe the three pertinent ideas on page 60 of the Big Book suggests a good formula for finding that Power, it has worked for me. My dictionionary did not have a definition of "doormat," but I remember how I felt when I arrived at A.A. "A Big Bag of you know what" I hated myself and another one of those good ole truthful A.A's told me about the old song that Bing Crosby sang "Accentuate the Positive and Eliminate the Negative and Don't mess with Mister in-between." This may sound crazy to some of you, but they suggested that when standing in front of a mirror look at yourself and sing "I love me, I love me, I'm wild about myself." And, if I would do this little exercise until I loved myself and you know in time the miracle happened. You see I was also told that the trouble with most alcoholic's is that we expect 8 years of sobriety in 72 hours and believe me it does not work that way.

A special welcome to all newcomers, keep coming back until the miracle happens.

Enjoy Your Sobriety Today by Staying Away from Slipery Places.

God Bless - Tom A. ate@gte.net

Welcome to all but especially the newcomers, keep coming back!

Enjoy Your Sobriety Today by Staying Out of Slippery Places.

God Bless - Tom A. ate@gte.net


Member: Arlene C
Location: Northeast Washington
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 6:09:53 PM

Comments

Hi, my name is Arlene and I am an alcoholic. I want to wish everyone a happy holiday and a sober new year. I remember that when I first came into this program, my sister who had walked this path before me, told me that sometimes the only thing do do was to stand and hurt. Pain is part of the human experience, and if I said yes to life there would be pain from time to time. What a concept! I had run from pain all of my life. Nothing has caused me as much pain as not accepting my powerlessness. Only when I accept my that I am powerless, can I turn to a power greater than myself.

As for being a doormat. After I finished my forth step, it was no longer possible for me to allow other to treat me poorly. I had to know who I was was, before I could stand up for myself. I had spent may years trying to get approval from others that I lost my own approval. I can not do that again. It is really "To Thine Own Self Be True."


Member: Shannon S.
Location: California
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 6:28:11 PM

Comments

Hi everyone. My name is Shannon and I'm an alcoholic. All my thanks and gatitude to my higher power and AA for another sober holiday season. Best wishes to you all. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!


Member: john f
Location: pa
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 7:02:28 PM

Comments

hi there, My name is John and I'm an alcoholic.I've been sober for 2 years but the last 2 months I found myself withdrawing from the fellowship.I havn't picked up yet but my head is a mess.If anyone has been here please share.Email me at johnfarren24@hotmail.com thanks for being here.


Member: patd
Location: mich
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 8:07:17 PM

Comments

Patd an alcholic I will not let xmas day go by without hanging out at a meeting place for a couple of hours in case someone comes in. I am in my first year and a gooooooood friend in aa asked me to remember the ones still needing us. I want to be there as you all were for me the day I walked through the doors. Merry Christmas


Member: Frank C.
Location: Texas
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 8:33:21 PM

Comments

Hi, My name is Frank and I am an Alcoholic. "We addmitted we were powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unmanagable". Boy, when I realised they were including me in the we, things took on a whole new perspective. I don't worry about being powerless over people places and things. Really I am in denial when it comes to that because not only am I an alcoholic, I am also a con. I expect it to be hard to get people to see things my way. But the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking and if I know I am powerless over alcohol and want to leave it alone then I am in. I have been sober since 6/14/91. It is my ---th time around. I had eight years before and lost it because I forgot I was powerless over alcohol. It took me three months and a couple of felony indictments to remember but today I know it and I hear that is what counts. As far as the doormat deal, I may be guilty of allowing it sometimes by choice. I think I am getting tired and it is hard to remind people of my reputation all the time. Especially young people I just meet. If I am mistreated too bad though I change my enviroment. Really I am just here because of my problem with alcohol so I should not comment on all those other psycological topics. Thanks for letting me share and Merry Christmas All!!!


Member: Kevin K
Location: Rochester, Wa
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 8:42:23 PM

Comments

I like Stanb's comments on quit being a doormat im done haveing feet wiped on me ! Im outta here Happy Mellenium and Merry Christmas to all drop me an email I luv to meet any of you fine people!

KevinKilgore@Mindspring.com


Member: Roy S.
Location:
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 8:43:37 PM

Comments

Powerlessness is a good topic for me. It seems that I have some real trouble when I cannot have some sort of say as to what is going on in my life. Accepting what happens as the will of my HP has been one of the toughest things to change in my life, but also one of the most satisfying. It has definitely been a great help to me in my recovery. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: DonF
Location: NH
Date: 12/21/99
Time: 11:11:48 PM

Comments

Hi I'm Don, recovering alcoholic. A lotta good sobriety shared here. Also good Al-Anon. My first exposure to 12 steps was the latter, but I wasn't into acceptance yet. Still was defending my right to drink. Had to stop drinking to understand the way of life being offered. Read a term above that I heard in PA, double winner, someone in AA who also is in Al-Anon. Al-Anon is the real source of understanding how to deal with the drinking or behavior of OTHERS. Detachment is the key. I need to go back to Al-Anon to learn to detach from her SPENDING now, or else detach her from me.

Have a good sober day, all.

Donaldo88@aol.com


Member: Toni
Location: Melbourne Aust.
Date: 12/22/99
Time: 6:31:07 AM

Comments

Hi everyone I'm Toni a recovering alcoholic. I've been sober 2 and a half years and still find it very hard to accept that I'm powerless over other people especially my partner but I've come to realize that somethings aren't any of my business. I liked your comments Another Stan and Tedd.T. They were very helpfull. Thanks for sharing, Merry Christmas to all. Toni


Member: Rich R, slowly recovering compulsive person :-)
Location: Detroit
Date: 12/22/99
Time: 5:15:44 PM

Comments

I'm Rich Alcoholic. I like what someone above me said about it being my last name. That way we ALL have the last name (Alcoholic). That makes us all related, brothers and sisters! Now for the topic...I act like a doormat a lot and I've been sober 9 years. So, what's up??? It's about time I get some self-respect and stick up for my rights! On the other hand, I also know that acceptance of others is very important for me. I like what it says on page 449 of the big book...and I can find NO SERENITY unless I accept that person, place, thing or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be. Nothing, absolutely nothing, happens in God's world by mistake. It took me 44 years to find recovery and I still don't have it down pat yet, so I need to cut other people some slack. Thanks for the topics.


Member: BrettG
Location: Ky
Date: 12/22/99
Time: 9:02:14 PM

Comments

Hi everyone!Brett alcoholic,I agree with the other guy from Ky.He said basically that we must look at ourselves,"selfishness-selfcenteredness that we think is the root of our troubles","so we think our troubles our of our own making" both from the big book. I don't think I need get into fights with 8 year old kids who as the big book also says in the Family Afterward "years of living with an alcoholic is almost sure to make any wife or child neurotic.The ENTIRE family is,to some extent ill"bb pg 122. I know if I use the principles of the program I will not become a doormat nor will I care if someone tries to use me as one. Merry christmas,remember this is a family disease,practice these principles at home.


Member: Gerald
Location: Florida
Date: 12/22/99
Time: 9:28:08 PM

Comments

My first time here and only felt the need to state this because of what BrettG from KY said. Brett, the fact is that there are many of us out there, myself included, thinking we need to beat ourselves up for the rest of our lives because of the damage we caused our family and friends. We also seem to have the very bad habit of allowing these very same people to use and abuse us. This is the other extreme that many alcoholics go to and it just plain ain't healthy. We must find a balance and often times that is saying "goodbye" to those people who think it is now OK for them to walk all over us. It is fear and guilt that leads us to this other extreme. These two defects not only destroy us as people, but eventually (if we don't stop the sick cycle)they lead us to the booze. They are both defects that say "I do not trust the path that God has shown me, therefore, I will stay here and be treated like dirt because I am too afraid." Pretty stinking thinking I would say.

Saying that I will not allow these people to treat me like a doormat is definately no self centered nor selfish. It is called self respect! Something this program teaches us along the way.

Happy Holidays to you all. Stay sober.


Member: Doug K
Location: West Mich
Date: 12/22/99
Time: 9:46:55 PM

Comments

Hi everybody, my name is Doug an I'm an alcoholic. I have come to beleive that I am powerless over everything but my own thoughts and actions. Period. But by those same thoughts and actions I can acheive some peace and serenity, deep peace and serenity, in my life if they are focused on my spirituality.

On the matter of boudaries, I agree immensely with Bill T. While I am currently sober longer than any time since my birth, it is not as long as I drank, compulsively. I do not feel that I am especially equiped to make demands of, nor expect much from others. While it is easy to set boundaries with people none too close, ie, fellas I work with, close friends, etc; I find it extremely difficult to set boundaries with those I love the most,ie, wife, family. While the tenth step helps, I am aware of how self-decieving I can be.

Do I focus on what I fell I deserve? Or do I focus on my spirituality? At these times, while not of a religious nature, I can't help but hear the St. Francis prayer rumbling through my head.

Thank-you Doug


Member: Mike F.
Location: Winnipeg Mb
Date: 12/22/99
Time: 10:09:27 PM

Comments

Powerlessness is a state of confusion, brought about by our desire to control the world around us. If we can remember that we are no longer running the show, then proceed to say a prayer, and offer our selves once again to our higher power, then we find the comfort in his care that we so desperatly looked for in the bottle. We are no longer running the show. My sponser pointed out to me early in sobriety that the great "I" was not the center of the universe. Since god has all power, My goal today (just for today) is to atune myself with his wishes for me, and to stop giving other people the power to control my destiny. I do this with acceptance, that they may be sick individuals too, and we don't treat sick people meanly. Also, I try to remember that the only power people have over me, is the power I give them.


Member: Jack C.
Location: Frozen Wisconsin
Date: 12/22/99
Time: 10:48:48 PM

Comments

Always remember, "Life is God's gift to us. What we do with it is our gift to Him"...and thank God, we only have to do it one day at a time! There is little difference between a short life and a long life. Both are but moments in time. Live each day as it were your last and you will find many blessings and much happiness...without drinking. Merry CHRISTmas. It's the reason for the season!


Member: Mike R.
Location: Wyoming
Date: 12/23/99
Time: 1:45:15 AM

Comments

Mike here greatfull alki just want to thank everyone for sharing all of you have been great helps in my sobriety. you keep me sober at 3 in the morning when I don't want to wake anyone on my phone list and am going nucking futs wanting a drink you help bring me out of self. Keep up the good work and I'll keep comin back happy holidays to all and enjoy today as I keep being reminded if I have on leg in yesterday and one leg in tommarrow I'm pissin on today. Love ya all. MR


Member: Michael B.
Location: AZ
Date: 12/23/99
Time: 2:03:47 AM

Comments

Hi! My name is Michael and I am a recovering alcoholic, sober today only by the grace of God and the fellowship. Welcome to the newcomers! And thanks everyone for sharing on two excellent topics!

I've tended to focus my thoughts about powerlessness on my disease. Today, at least, I know that I cannot pick up a drink in safety, which, in turn, requires me to rely on the grace of God and the fellowship.

As far as being powerless over other people, things, etc., I feel that is generally true as well, although a judge who is in AA might feel differently. In any case, I've learned from a recent life-threatening illness I'm facing that I have no power over insurance companies in getting them to approve proper treatment, i.e., they're denying me treatment that might save my life and there is nothing I have been able to do about it. I guess that's powerlessness over people and things!

Regarding the topic of willingly being a doormat, I feel there is no room in the AA philosophy for that. Willingly being a doormat strips us of our dignity, doesn't help the aggressor, and undermines the idea heard in AA halls that we are no worse than anybody else. Sometimes the term "tough love" is used to describe this philosophy. In fact, the Big Book emphasizes this type of approach over and over in various scenarios, even in the chapter "To Wives" (see bottom half of p. 108).

PS. Jack C. in Frozen Wisconsin: In case your new to this site, your comments would be more appropriate for the Coffee Pot. This is a discussion meeting where we share our thoughts on a specific topic(s). Thanks.


Member: Paul Q
Location: Toronto
Date: 12/23/99
Time: 7:08:27 AM

Comments

LACK OF POWER THAT WAS OUR DELIMA.........

Once GOD manifested himself in me as result of working ALL the steps........

People Places and Things have nothing to do with my control....I'm not GOD anymore what a gift.....

When powerlessness enters my life its because I'm trying to be the power....

GOD controls my circumstances in order to mold me spiritualy and this takes many powerless situations in my life as he casts the mold....

LOVE and SERVICE pquigley@sprint.ca


Member: Paul Q
Location: Toronto
Date: 12/23/99
Time: 7:09:04 AM

Comments

LACK OF POWER THAT WAS OUR DELIMA.........

Once GOD manifested himself in me as result of working ALL the steps........

People Places and Things have nothing to do with my control....I'm not GOD anymore what a gift.....

When powerlessness enters my life its because I'm trying to be the power....

GOD controls my circumstances in order to mold me spiritualy and this takes many powerless situations in my life as he casts the mold....

LOVE and SERVICE pquigley@sprint.ca


Member: Fred M
Location: MD
Date: 12/23/99
Time: 7:49:01 AM

Comments

I'm Fred and I'm an alcoholic. When I think of powerlessness, and maintaining it as part of my state of mind, I return to the moment of clarity God gave me the day I stopped drinking. That morning, I knew I was defeated, that I could control nothing in my life, and that I had to turn to a source outside of myself for help. It is that feeling and reality that I try to maintain in sobriety. It is one of humility and gratitude, which includes powerlessness. At my face to face meetings, I see people still struggling, and it is my opinion that they don't yet understand this concept. To me, defeat and powerlessness must come before other steps can be achieved. As for being a doormat, I was my own worst enemy. It took years of prayer and sobriety to realize that I have worth and value and don't need to dwell on past sins. I bring value to myself and others by practicing the steps and the Golden Rule. When I demonstrate that I have self-respect, the respect of others follows. Thanks for letting me share. Love, Fred


Member: ROB S
Location: VA
Date: 12/23/99
Time: 2:51:01 PM

Comments

HI EVERYONE ROB ALCOHOLIC. I HAVE BEEN AROUND A FEW 24 HRS BUT IM JUST COMING BACK TO MEETINGS LIKE I SHOULD HAVE ON THE FIRST PLACE. TALK ABOUT POWERLESSNESS MY WIFE OF 13 YRS JUST ASKED ME TO SEPERATE. MOST OF THE PROBLEM IS ME. WE ARE BOTH RECOVERING. SHE HAS GROWN IN UNTOLD WAYS WHILE I HAVE JUST GLIDED.I AM REALLY POWERLESS OVER HER DECISION. THE ONLY PERSON I CAN WORK ON IS ME. I HAVE SINCE REDEDICATED MYSELF TO WORKING THE STEPS ALL OVER AGAIN BUT THIS TIME TO MAKE ME A BETTER PERSON FOR ME .I HAVE NO IDEA OF THE OUTCOME OF OUR SEPERATION AND THE ONLY WAY FOR ME TO CONTINUE ON WITH MY LIFE IS FOR ME TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF. HP IS IN CHARGE OF MY MARRIAGE. MERRY X-MAS TO ALL .


Member: Jacqui E
Location: Lisbon, Ohio
Date: 12/23/99
Time: 4:23:54 PM

Comments

HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE!! Before I could accept that I was powerless over alcohol I could not stay sober. I tried living a whole year sober with out surrendering and I got drunk. The second time I went to AA for help I had to admit defeat and surrender completely. It has worked so far, I have been sober almost 4 years this time. When I find something or someone unacceptable I lose what ever serenity I have. When I can accept something or someone to be as it is my serenity is restored. I'm not saying that I am a doormat. I've learned to be a positive force and I also know when to walk away. I have found that most people do not disrespect people who have self respect. I can not change other people. I can set an example by the way I choose to live my life. When I admit that I am powerless I am empowered by my higher power.


Member: iris
Location: asd
Date: 12/23/99
Time: 6:11:26 PM

Comments

Hi Happy Holidays to everyone, my name is iris and i'm an alcoholic I just want to check in, read some nice sharing. I constantly have to be reminded in my life about powerlessness and all the steps that's why i go to meetings It's a great relief if i can let go by getting reminded that i'm powerless about people, places and things and a lot of thiings of myself to, sometimes the only thing that i'm not powerless over is my attitude. actually as i'm writing now i can see it a a great freedom idon't have to be the centre of it all anymore. But i know i'm only that relaxed because there is no person place and situation right now that i want/nééd(help,afraid) power over. It's always different when you're in it.

This Christmas is the first one that i can enjoy, i always had problems with this time of year, and still some gravings too. But i can enjoy it thanks to recovery, the programm and God. Thanks all for sharing and letting me share in this meeting. Bye!


Member: Denny B
Location: nickel dime quarter
Date: 12/24/99
Time: 1:07:23 AM

Comments

Hi, everyone. To me, when I think of powerlessness, I also think of surrender....I remember reading something to the effect that.....Recognition of powerlessness is the foundation for surrender, but the act of surrender comes with the total acceptance of that powerlessness.......Thanks... I love my family!


Member: Ken S.
Location: surrey B.C.
Date: 12/24/99
Time: 2:12:36 AM

Comments

Hi ken's my name and alcoholwas the game. Ive been going to meetings for along time now. Since i became to my knees on how simple this is i've come upon agood life. as far as being a doormat subject goes i spent amany years looking for that something or someone that would/could bring me oneness.After so much group it became aparent that surender to the 12 step process and God was all i needed. my willingness to walk away from situations that infringe on my integrity became easyer.of coarse there was times that sadness followed these losses but life is to short to live in unhappyness. Each lesson of life brought me better understanding and acceptance and as a side mesure my faith musle grows stronger. As far as the powerlessness subject goes this single word can and does bring uneasyness in my life for arn't we all the great directors.how many times must i read page 449 only God knows? Marry xmas everyone ken s.


Member: Dean S
Location: Phoenix
Date: 12/24/99
Time: 2:59:38 AM

Comments

Hi! My name is Dean and I'm an alcoholic. Powerless? Who? Me? After all-I got where I was by my own willPower! Of course where I was really wasn't where I wanted to be. I did agree that my life was unmanangeable but the rationalization was that anyone's life would be a mess if they had the problems that I had. The love and patience of my sponsor and you who had traveled the road to recovery ahead of me finally led me to believe that I too was powerless over alcohol. My insanity was self induced via my enormously inflated ego, which kept me believing that I had the power to direct my own life. It was when I said to my Higher Power "God I am powerless over alcohol and my life is unmanageable. Please take charge of my life and help me be the kind of person you want me to be today" that life took on new nmeaning and finally I was on the road to recovery. I now know a loving God who has all power. Thank you AA friends for teaching me that love is the answer no matter what the problem is. I love you and wish you a Merry Christmas, Happy Holiday Season and a Happy, Sober New Year! Thank you for sharing with me.


Member: steve L.
Location: southeast MO.
Date: 12/24/99
Time: 7:13:02 AM

Comments

morning all, a fine and happy holiday to all. how cuold i be powerless, i had just come off my term of suprime rule of all my coulded eyes could see! i was the foot that stepped on the mats of this world. ilive by "takers get the honey, the givers get the blues". so how was i to give up this right? talk about a painful jounery!was i truly the center of all the pain in my life.darn right i was!when i,m not getting my way now,this instant,when your not bowing to me when your sapose to! god what a hard lesson! but by no means am i a door mat. only,and i mean by my choce am i the if i want to be. it comes from keeping myside of the street clean, comes from a strong sponser who cares,from a great home group,practicing these principals in all my affares.ALL of my affares. and knowing that that i,m now longer the king. also i dont think i have the strenth or or right to get angery.i,m not saying i dont ,but im learning that every day. Thank you all have a great christmass ,safe and sober new year,to those worried about these happy days,remember its really just another 24 hours till tomorrow Love in the program


Member: Anna Nimity
Location:
Date: 12/24/99
Time: 9:22:23 AM

Comments

Sorry for being "off topic" but I found this website that has free AA speaker tapes... http://www.angelfire.com/mi2/srcp


Member: kevinm
Location: fl
Date: 12/24/99
Time: 9:41:18 AM

Comments

If a mere code of morals or a better philosophy of life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us would have recovered long ago. But we found that such codes and philosophies did not save us, no matter how much we tried. We could not wish to moral, we could wish to be philosophically comforted, in fact, we could will these things with all our might, but the need power wasn't there. Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly. Lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live, and it had to be a Power greater than ourselves. Obviously. But where and how were we to find this Power? Well that's exactly what this book is about. Its main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself which will solve your problem. pg.44@45. bb Don't drink, go to meetings (FtF) its just another 24 hrs, somtimes min. call your sponser, call another alkie, clean house, trust a God of your understanding, help someone else, Merry X-mass to and God bless you!!!


Member: Corky S.
Location: San Antonio, TX
Date: 12/24/99
Time: 9:45:09 AM

Comments

In a couple of weeks it will be 28 1/2 years sober.I sobered up when I had just turned 30 years old. One night someone urinated on my kitchen walls and I was confronted with it. I called AA and have been sober ever since. I am active in AA. I love to listen and share at AA meetings. A few weeks ago I heard a woman in a meeting say that she lived in utopia. Now although there is a Utopia, Texas not far away, she really meant in the futureistic sence. She had verbalized what I felt but could never find the exact words for. In the Big Book, on page 25, there is some very critical information! These guys made a chapter in the book called "there is a solution." On page 25 of that chapter, there is a paragraph that begins,"there is a solution". That phrase is in italics. I think they were emphasizing it! At the end of those instructions, in that paragraph, is a part about being rocketed into a 4th dimension of existance the likes of which we had not even dreamed as the result of our labor. Today I try to focus on the solution and not on the problem. If I live in the problem, then the problem gets bigger. When I live in the solution, the solution gets bigger. It's my choice. I love you all! Corky S. 7-8-71


Member: ;-)
Location:
Date: 12/24/99
Time: 10:01:57 AM

Comments

Can we got off the powerlessness kick....I was encouraged at first because it finally looked like we were going to get into some daily life stuff (doormat talk)and here we are again talking about a bunch of superficial stuff. Why are the topics the same here every week? I am sick of hearing the same stuff week after week. Gratitude, Powerlessness, Let go and let God, etc. How about we talk about things that happen in real life and what we do to get through them with the assistance of this program. This is a discussion meeting isn't it? And please, Tim V., don't post back and say "then why don't you pick another topic?" There was another topic posted this week and we still have posting after posting filled with all the "magical" BS talk, like I am powerless over everything and I have to let go of things and turn them over to God. PLEASSSSSSE, people these statements are great but hearing them week after BORING week turns them into nothing more than a bunch of shallow blah blah....This program is turning into a huge BORE!


Member: Corky S
Location: San Antonio, TX
Date: 12/24/99
Time: 10:16:57 AM

Comments

..and practice these principals in all our affairs. Listening to an AA meeting will not make you well or even better. Applying these ideas to your everyday life will. Corky S. 7-8-71


Member: ken s.
Location: Surrey B.C,
Date: 12/24/99
Time: 10:57:57 AM

Comments

good morning it seems I can't forget that its the simple stuff I hear at meetings that helps keep me clean today. Living on the west coast here in vancouver I found out fast how I could develope a new altime low. after many years of drincking I found a needle and the hard stuff. Coming baack became more dificult and freqent. All the sico babble only left me more screwed up though I did learn that the problem did start and end with me,so I needed and did become openminded.So today its just a mater of keeping it simple and when I hear people go off about the slogans of our program I tell myself to remember when I made life more complicated than need be.I'm thankfull I can enjoy the little things in life, children when I get them, birds that fly by and countless other things. giving back, volentering, and sharing how I strugle with keeping my life as simple as the program now is in my life boils down to its realrealrealrealrealbadifIuse and lifes realrealrealreal good if I don't. the choice is mine. I hpoe everyone has a relaxing xmas. ken s


Member: MARY K
Location: BOSTON
Date: 12/24/99
Time: 12:05:29 PM

Comments

Mary, alcy

SHORT VERSION OF THE SERENITY PRAYER:

F_ _ K IT !!!!!

To ;-) Have you forgotton that alcoholics have built in forgetters? You have either not been around very long or are "recovered" - else you would know the necessity of repetitiveness. There - gave you something to cop a resentment over - happy now?


Member: ;-)
Location:
Date: 12/24/99
Time: 1:21:52 PM

Comments

Mary K - Some obviously are sicker than others but there comes a time when it means getting off of our dead asses and doing some real life work. Oh please, spare us the drudge of hearing another AA excuse for not dealing with real life "I have a built in forgetter." If I am working the steps and practicing these principals in all my affairs how the hell can I forget. Please save the excuses for those who wish to play around with this program and leave the action to those who wish to live prosperous sober lives.

Self pity never got us anything but drunk!!! Keep that in mind!


Member: MARY K
Location: BOSTON
Date: 12/24/99
Time: 4:01:16 PM

Comments

Mary, alcy

To ;-) - Ditto to my previous comment.


Member: Mary J
Location: Seattle
Date: 12/24/99
Time: 4:04:21 PM

Comments

Hi,

I'm Mary and an alcoholic. Powerelessness is a good topic for me at this time of the year. Sometimes I feel swept up in all the commercialism of the season and not the reason for the season.

This is also the time of the year that the temptation to drink is very strong because of the parties and activities.

When I am at these affairs I do feel very powerless, but that goodness there are alternative beverages and a society that is becoming more aware of the power of alcohol over some of us.

May you all gather strength during this season.


Member: Barbara G
Location: Maine
Date: 12/25/99
Time: 1:22:59 AM

Comments

I am Barbara and I am an alcoholic. I remember when I too had many opinions about the whole AA way of life and like they told me, :-) keep coming back and in time you will overcome that sense of frustration and boredom.. I have managed to stay sober for 10 years and it was accepting that I was powerless and accepting that these people who irratated me whee the pople that saved my life and introduced me to a whole new way of life. Keep coming back :-) don't quit before the miracle happens. If I could overcome my bad feelings toward "AA, so can you. I do know what serenity is today. I do know what gratitude is for me. I have a higher power whom I choose to call God and He has put the right people in my path that were just what I needed in my early days of recovery. I don't care if I am 20, 40, 60, 80, ig I don't drink alcohol today, I WILL NOT GET DRUNK. tIGER OF maine.


Member: KEVIN M.
Location: NEW YORK
Date: 12/25/99
Time: 5:10:37 PM

Comments

HI! My name is Kevin I'm an alcoholic. I am working on my first step. I got out of rehab Nov. 24 but I've been around A.A. for about 15 yrs. I have just begun to feel that I am honest with myself about being powerless over alcohol. These feelings have helped me to honestly and thouroughly follow the path of A.A.'s before me. I would appreciate any other sharing on this topic, especially your experiences with the first step. MERRY XMAS!!!!!!


Member: Mike R.
Location: Sheffield
Date: 12/25/99
Time: 8:22:37 PM

Comments

Hi,folks! My name is Mike and i"m an alcholic. Powerlessness is what I felt before I started going back to meetings. I mean, I knew what I was doing to myself, and my family, but I could always seem to find a way around those feelings just by doing a few 12oz curls. After getting out of jail, off the ground, or out of whatever ditch I had managed to park in, guilt was all I felt. It now appears to me that this is the most powerful form of powerlessness that I as an alcoholic, can feel. I have found that the fellowship of AA is a very good way to battle these thoughts. Thanks much for being here for me tonight. I am visiting family for the holidays,and could not find a meeting here. Thank god for the net.Y'all take care and have a happy holiday season.


Member: kevinm
Location: fl
Date: 12/25/99
Time: 11:46:28 PM

Comments

To kevinm , the first step is the only one I could do 100% , that's what my sponcer said , the rest of steps are needed as a foundation. If you are truly ready,and only you will know,It was suggest to me to get busy as this is a action program, I did not have much difficulty in the first three steps, I balked hard at the forth and fith, its were the rubber meet the road for me or so i thought, I did not want to write that inventory, nor did I want to tell someone all that s--t i had been carrying around, but I did. Time after time newcomers have tried to keeo to themselves certain facts about their lives. Trying to avoid this humbling experience, they have turned to easir methods. Almost invariably they got drunk. Having persevered with the rest of the program, they wondered why they fell. We think the reasonis that they never completed their housecleaning. They took inventory all right, but hung onto some of the worst items in stock. They only thought they had lost their egoism and fear; they only thought they had humbled themselves. But they had not learned enough of humility, fearlessness and honesty, in the sense we find it necessary, until they told someone else all their life story. Pg. 73, I don't think for this alkie I could have stayed sober very long without this step, my date is 7/29/94. By the grace of God and the fellow ship of aa i have'nt picked up a drink since.


Member: Jeanne A.
Location:
Date: 12/26/99
Time: 8:31:36 AM

Comments

Good Morning. My name is Jeanne A. and I'm concerned about my drinking habits. Over the past several years, I've begun to have alcohol in the home. I often drink two large glasses of wine in the evening. Yesterday, I drank five bottles of beer over eight hours. Recently, I was traveling for work and, two nights in a row, I asked for another glass of beer while colleagues requested a dessert coffee. I am seeking moderation. My plan is to stop drinking for one year so as to gain control over this habit. My question is whether I should attend special meetings or if this site will be sufficient. It's a beautiful morning here and life is good -- I want to keep it that way. Thank you, in advance, for your suggestions and comments.


Member: toni k
Location: boise id
Date: 12/26/99
Time: 10:52:30 AM

Comments

hi guys...my name is toni and I'm an alcoholic from boise. I have never done this before, been on the internet for aa i mean. What an amazing tool. Anyway, for Jeanne, know body can tell you whats too much or if you are even an alcohilic. Thats a decision you have to make your own self. see ya


Member: Katherine Ann
Location: Dayton, OH
Date: 12/26/99
Time: 11:34:50 AM

Comments

Katherine Ann, Alcoholic/Addict. Kevin M. - I am early in recovery as well. I know how difficult it is after rehab. It's like you are in this "safe place" in rehab where you are not around people or places that make you feel out-of-control. You are surrounded with people that have the same feelings and understand what you are saying. However, that is not reality. The problems you had are still there and you have to face them. I get over-whelmed very easy because I've always had someone in my life taking care of everything for me and I am on my own now and have to make my own choices. I have a difficult time making the smallest decisions...but for today, I have decided not to drink. Today...I have been sober on my own (after rehab) for 6 weeks! Thank you for all your helpful comments. Have a safe, sober and wonderful holidays!


Member: Terri S.
Location: Wis.
Date: 12/26/99
Time: 11:36:09 AM

Comments

Good Morning to all,Greatful Alcoholic here,remembering why I do service work is to be of help & to learn to get out of being so selfish, secretary & treasure makes it my meeting & to be apart of the whole, be part of the solution not the problem,Thanks to you all I am teachable today. through the Grace of God & the A.A. fellowship, Have a safe New Years.


Member: Terri S.
Location: Wis.
Date: 12/26/99
Time: 11:36:15 AM

Comments

Good Morning to all,Greatful Alcoholic here,remembering why I do service work is to be of help & to learn to get out of being so selfish, secretary & treasure makes it my meeting & to be apart of the whole, be part of the solution not the problem,Thanks to you all I am teachable today. through the Grace of God & the A.A. fellowship, Have a safe New Years.


Member: Terri
Location:
Date: 12/26/99
Time: 11:53:15 AM

Comments

HI all, My name is Terri and I am an alcoholic. I dont know how this works for new topics but I would like to hear from you all about the importance of meetings. I have been in AA before I had about 5 yrs of sobriety and went back out. I can say this was mostly due to the fact that I quit going to meetings. I have now put together about 2yrs and again find myself avoiding meetings. In the time I was back out I got all of my "yets", I lost my children, my house, I filed bankruptcy lost a job but most of all I lost all of my self dignity. I find myself now playing with the idea of drinking with the new year holiday coming up, I'm scared. Anything anyone has to share would be great, thanks for letting me share.


Member: Natalie S.
Location: Glenolden Pa.
Date: 12/26/99
Time: 12:07:35 PM

Comments

Hi room! My name is Natalie S. and I am an alchohalic and an addict. I hope everyone had a merry Christmas. The only thing that bothered me was that durring the anual christmas toast I wasn't really able to join with the wine. But I gotta get over that I guess. I just afew days ago got out of Mirmont which is a Rehab. I had been there for 2 weeks and they wanted to keep me longer but I faught it. I am kinda sick right now but I said before at least I'm not sick from drinking past my limit or o.d.ing on some drugs or something. I don't know I feel really wierd right now because still after rehab, all the meetings, getting a sponser, having some clean, time relapsing more then once, and all the bad stuff that has happened to me from drinking and druging I STILL want to use! I feel like an idiot. It's like a war going on in my head, I really don't know how to explain it. I keep on thinking stupid things like,"I'm not as bad as most people," and,"I got in this stuff by mistake," or,"I'm still young I just had my 16th Birthday in rehab!" I feel like 2 diferent people its crazy. Sorry if I'm not on the exact topic of this meeting. Thanx for letting me share!:)


Member: Bonnie Z.
Location: PA, USA
Date: 12/26/99
Time: 5:49:32 PM

Comments

Hi, Bonnie here, alcoholic. To those of you who are new, or feeling things and wondering who can identify with them-----someone has felt and can identify with those same things! Just read the Big Book(Alcoholics Anonymous), go to meetings and share, and someone will say, "I've been there." We may be different in some ways, but we have our alcoholism and recovery in common. We're in this TOGETHER, that's what the UNITY is all about. Feel free to e-mail, JTBSFRIEND@aol.com. Peace.


Member: Greg M
Location: New Orleans
Date: 12/26/99
Time: 6:29:59 PM

Comments

My name is Greg, I am an alcoholic. After 11+ years of continuous sobriety, I am finding it very hard to accept that I am "still an alcoholic". I some ways I guess that I have never fully accepted that I am an alcoholic. Sitting through meetings is more and more difficult. I have trouble relating to newcomers. They seem so different. The solution to my problem is to attend more meetings, get a sponsor (mine died a couple of years ago) and so on. Thanks for listening.


Member: kelly b
Location: ny
Date: 12/26/99
Time: 8:46:58 PM

Comments

Hi, Kelly an alcoholic here - alot of great reading here this week. On being a doormat - I've been one my whole life. I've always done what someone else wanted because I wanted to be loved or be the good guy. Well, even in recovery I find that I'm still powerless over feeling that way - but I am getting better. At meetings I have been told that right now I may need to be a little bit selfish and do what I need to do to get well. They're right. Once I started dictating what I wanted to do, I found that the family (parents, siblings) were very supportive after they got over the initial shock. It's hard to say no after so long - but it certainly has helped me to get my life on a better track. Now, I don't feel quite so pressured and need to have that drink! What a great feeling. So, hopefully my doormat days will be behind me! Thanks for letting me share. Kelly


Member: kevinm
Location: fl
Date: 12/26/99
Time: 10:38:07 PM

Comments

to jeanne and that other new-be, step over to the nearest, bar , drink one or two and try to stop, stop for a year or so, if you don't ever find yourself wanting a drink or takeing one then you are probley not a alkie. I heard one of the best speakers in aa, was sober about eight years, she was twenty. You don't have to drink like others, or as much, or as long, females usually don't before they reach that point, but if you find that you are unable to leave it alone, then?? Only you can decide, at least that's what I was told or that's what i heard. For this alki its aa or amen, thanks for letting me share, have a safe and sober new year!!!


Member: TomJ
Location: Wyoming
Date: 12/26/99
Time: 11:49:50 PM

Comments

R.E. Kevin & Bonnie. . . I'm just a sixty day newbie, 2nd day "on the aa net" and am on the net as there are no meetings going on in this town (just returned from a 20 minute wait in a Lutheran Church parking lot).I had a good friend who drank some then decided to quit on his own and shot himself 4 months later. I was scared to quit alone, tried to control my drinking, tried to not drink, etc,etc, but eventually the court required an AA meeting, and now I am no longer scared to quit, and the wife no longer calls my cell phone to see if I'm still alive. I finally found somewhere to relax. We only have a few a week around here, but some is better than none and the net is always on. I think the net can only back up tthe face-to-face at meetings, but any other newbies who haven't made their first meeting. . . try it. I'm convinced that it can save your life, or extend the heck out of it. I don't fear losing my "best friend" anymore as I have found a better one in AA