Member: Craig L (Dogmanor@yahoo.com)
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 7:38:33 AM

Comments

Craig here another real alcoholic (Page 21). When I drank I was always afraid. I dwelled on things that happened, things that might have happened and things that might happen. All of it brought me more anxiety and anger, which I tried to escape in the bottle. I learned through the 4th step, all of my anger and resentments were due to fear. Today I still have fear, but thanks to the steps and AA, I don't have to drink and try to run from it. Let's talk about fears this week. Thanks


Member: Gerald L.
Location: Lennox, CA>
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 7:43:58 AM

Comments

"Service" Types of in AA and experiences. I have been sober in AA for over 20 years and its amazing to me that lots of people with more than 5 years of sobriety have no Idea what a DCM or a GSR in AA is. Maybe its just the local I live in.


Member: Jules H.
Location: Iowa
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 10:02:45 AM

Comments

Hi Jules here,alcoholic........fear is a good topic. The longer I stay sober and connected to the AA program, the more I'm aware and ready to face my fears head on......but there are a few fears I'm not ready to face and I'm not sure I want to. When I was drinkin, I used to drive the interstate all the time, and had some close calls. At the end of my drinking, I shut down on life altogether, including driving. Now I drive again but avoid the interstate cause of the fast pace driving, I like to take the scenic route,and I feel that's O.K. More will be revealed.........Thanks for being here and helping me stay sober one more day!


Member: Becky Y.
Location:
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 10:03:33 AM

Comments

This weeks topic,uh let me think for a minute will be ARE OLDTIMERS REALLY THAT SMART OR IS EVERYONE ELSE SO DUMB THAT THE OLDTIMERS JUST SEEM LIKE THEY ARE THAT SMART. Well from perspective I think that the only thing that they think they know about is the program.Dont fool yourself kids,anyone after attending meetings and really delving into the inner workings of AA for oh say anywhere from 6 moths to a year knows just as much as any of the oldtimers,what the oldtimers possess that the rest of us dont is more actual time without taking a drink tahn the rest.Does anyone really believe that just because they have not drank since we have that they are any smarter than the average bear.My gut feeling is that the oldtimers have finally found a place where they feel important and have all the power for an hour a day and possibly longer everyday if they can find anyone who can wants to play follow the leader more than an hour per day.This should make for an interesteing topic this week as teh past few weeks have not been too impressive.


Member: man o man
Location:
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 10:13:06 AM

Comments

No one gives a shit what a DCM OR GSR in AA means,we just came to stop drinking not to stop thinking for ourselves so we could be indoctrinated with endless oneliners and slogans being our new vocabulary to impress teh oldtimers as to say look am I saying the right things now.


Member: Martha w.
Location:
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 10:19:25 AM

Comments

Jules,fear of driving on the interstate has nothing to do with drinking.It is rather a chemical imbalance in the brain that freaks you out when the flow of traffic is greater than the speed than your brain is taking in activities around you.See a good doctor and get something that will allow you to function normally again.I know because I suffered at one time with the same symptoms and they were not all confined to fears of the freeway.Take a look at an SSRI such as Lexapro,Zoloft,Celexa just to name a few.Chnace are you will be improved in all areas of your life.


Member: Mike G
Location: Saint Paul
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 11:13:27 AM

Comments

Hi, I'm Mike and I am an Alcoholic. Fear has run my life for far to long. It's present in most every decision I make. It keeps me in hiding. One of my bigger fears has to do with what others think of me and acceptance. It's the kind of fear that keeps me from saying much during fellowship and from attending sober parties. One thing I'm coming to realize is that our fears are self-fufilling and will continue in the vicious cycle if we allow it. So with my fear, if I continue to feed it by isolating, hiding, and shying away from others, it will haunt me forever. But if I do as the program suggests and turn these fears over to my HP and pray for their removal then maybe someday I can live without fear. It's not an easy task, but it's getting easier. Thanks.


Member: SO TRUE
Location:
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 11:19:58 AM

Comments

FEAR OF THE OLDTIMERS,WE ARE TERRIFIED


Member: Beverly J
Location:
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 12:06:04 PM

Comments

FEAR! this is a great topic for me and glad to have a program that gives me an opportunity to identify what's really going on with Me. To finally have the courage to admit how I really feel. Just yesterday my boyfriend revealed that he read my journal/diary. Well my initial response was fear. Only because I could not immediately remember what I had written. But what came next was calm in the midst of feeling violated. But All I could do was to Remember that everything written was the TRUTH about how I really feel about this relationship (very toxic), and mostly because of fear, not ready to say to them. One thing I know for sure is I don't want to drink again over anything, and I will no longer allow anyone to pollute my recovery.


Member: Ron L
Location: Winnipeg Man Canada
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 12:24:36 PM

Comments

Ron Alcoholic Fears yeah I know all about fears all I got to do is remember what it was like as I stayed sober one day at a time. I couldn't sleep with the lights on and I couldn't sleep with the lights off. I was scared that I couldn't stay sober and was fearful that I was going to slip. I was facing 5 criminal charges and was scared I was going to go to jail for 5 years. scared to tell my sponsor about these things, thinking he would have nothing to do with me. Being sober I was scared of the police they meant nothing but bad news to me. I could go on and on about my fears, But some place along the line I found a group of people who never judged me for what I had done, What I had become, Or what I really was, They excepted me for what I was trying to do and that was staying sober one day at a time. They shared with me how they over came their fears and how they found a higher power that enabled them to do so. Yeah Im an old timer, and if anyone thinks that I get off at sharing what happened to me with some new guy thats just coming into the program. that I feel important by sharing what happened, that I speak from some spiritual hill top, Think again, If I were to speak down to anyone from my position of recovery or my length of sobriety I know that my words would fall on deaf ears. So why do I hang around ? Well that is our primary purpose. I owe it to the new member, and I owe it to the guys and girls who done it to me, But most of all it helps me. HELPS ME WHAT????? Well when you get 30 years you'll know why and I won't have to tell you. thanks


Member: Mike H.
Location: Jackson Michigan
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 12:36:21 PM

Comments

At one time fear was necessary to help protect me from danger. My addiction twisted this fear into every aspect of my life. I no longer felt "safe" in any situation unless I was drunk. At the end I didn't even feel safe when drunk. As more time goes on being sober I am learning how to deal with fear properly. It is not easy and it takes a lot of work but the benefits I have received is well worth the effort I have to put into it every day.


Member: rgf
Location:
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 12:36:24 PM

Comments

Ron,anyone would be scared if they were looking at 5 offenses chraged against them,you should not have done the crime if you could not do the crime,GOD can be found at church,seek and ye shall find.


Member: big bill
Location: west kingston,RI
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 4:02:54 PM

Comments

i fear that i will never be able to stop getting drunk.i decided to go back to aa for a post graduate course last monday.sober monday,sober tuesday,[went to a local aa meeting tuesday] wed.thurs.,sober.got loaded friday.i got up sat. am.and dumped a1/2 gallon of wine down the kitchen sink.i drank the other 1/2 gallon the night before.i cleand up the yard today i had 1 acre of all that beautiful fall foliage all over my yard.wen i finished ifelt that i deserved a reward.guess what ??? i am having a very large glass of wine as i type this.please tell me what to do.there is always wine in the house,my wife enjoys it.i really want to quit.


Member: BIKER BABE FAN
Location: DRY CITIES, WA
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 4:11:30 PM

Comments

This is my first time sharing. Thank you to all that have. I feel that anyone who has shared has already overcame some fears and are on the path to a smoother road. Since my admission to alcoholism and a treatment program, I have found that I have an easier approach to success by being as optimistic as I can. In other words trying to make something good out of something bad. First willing to change at my age, is what I feel is an accomplishment. Any change for the better at any age is great. Next I had to fill some idleness with activeness; overall less TV, more hobbies, more fitness, and legitimate fun without alcohol. I joined a church and found there were alot of functions available through the church that were social fillers. I have been attending a substance abuse program where I have actually became quite comfortable with the people in my group and now look forward to seeing them. I look forward to better change all the time thus finding it easier to overcome my fears. One of my fears was writing this; because I have read so many slammer comments after people just tried to share. So what if what they had to say did not appeal to others or even if it twisted others; it is just being able to express inner feelings by venting and the only important replies are the positive ones. If we all look at this web site as a group, we can help each other overcome our fears and difficulties. I hope what I have shared helps maybe just one reader change for the better. Thanks Craig for being brave enough to open this week and helping me to overcome another one of my fears-sharing. Enjoy life!


Member: LYNDA B
Location: UK DEVON
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 4:48:14 PM

Comments

HELLO FAMILY ITS BEEN A WHILE SINCE IVE BEEN ON THIS PAGE..THANKS FOR COMMENTS SO FAR..SORRY ABOUT THE CAPITALS..IM STILL LEARNING TO TYPE AND USE CP..IVE BEEN AROUND THE PROGRAM FOR NEARLY 20YEARS..BOY DID I STRUGGLE..HAD TO DO IT MY WAY OF COURSE..FEAR FOR ME AS BEEN THE ROOT OF MY ILLNESS..MANAGED TO GET SPELLS OF CLEAN TIME THEN I RELAPSED LONGEST I EVER DID WAS 3&1/2 YEARS..LONGEST RELAPSE 7YEARS..FEAR KEPT ME IN ITS GRIP FOR SO LONG..FEAR OF LIFE FEAR OF DEATH..FEAR OF LOVE FEAR OF HATE..FEAR OF BEING ALONE OR IN A CROWD..FEAR OF REJECTION AND ABANDONMENT..FEAR 0F COMMITMENT..FEAR OF THE PAST PRESENT AND THE FUTURE..FEAR OF FEAR..AND MORE..SOOO MUCH FEAR..THE GOOD NEWS FOR ME ON MY JOURNEY I HAVE FACED ALL MY FEARS..I NO LONGER FEAR FEAR..I LET GO OF MY OLD LIFE..SURRENDERED COMPLETELY TO THIS PROGRAM TRUST IN MY HP..REPLACED FEAR WITH..LOVE ACCEPTANCE UNDERSTANDING COMMITMENT SELF LOVE AND RESPECT..GOT LOTS OF NEW FRIENDS IM A POSITIVE PRODUCTIVE GRATEFUL RECOVERING ALKI AND I LOVE IT..JUST OVER TWO YEARS SOBER..LOOKING FORWARD TO THE REST OF MY LIFE..LEARN EVERYDAY..LIVE AND LOVE IN THE PRECIOUS PRESENT..KEEP EVERTHING VERY SIMPLE..LOVE AND CHERISH MYSELF THEN IM HEALTHY AND FREE TO LOVE AND CHERISH OTHERS..LOVE AND LIGHT TO YOU ALL BYE FOR NOW X


Member: Joe S
Location: Earth
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 6:00:37 PM

Comments

THe first itime that I realized fear in my sober life was when a friend who had promised to pick me and my daughter up for my daughter's soccer game cancelled out... I sat for some time thinking about who that I could ask to take us... as I thought of different people to ask, my mind would play out the whole conversation where the person would say no... I was paralyzed with fear that no one would want to take us... then and I mean right then I realized what part fear was playing in my life. I went over to the phone and called my sister... right away she said "sure!!! I've been trying to think of something to do that would get me out of the house" GEEEEEZ!!! I finally realized that, yes... there is fear of say like a big mean dog... but then the unfounded fear that grips us invisibly is far more destructive.


Member: Boop
Location: NH
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 6:27:36 PM

Comments

I find that when I truly truly turn my will over and trust in a HP I am not fearful. Prayer and meditation!


Member: Barb Mc
Location: PA
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 7:35:08 PM

Comments

Barbara, Alcoholic. Some fear is healthy. Fear that if I put my hand in a fire I will get burned. Fear if I run in front of a truck I may get killed. Fear if I don't pay my electric bill I may wind up without lights. These are fears that keep me safe and doing the "right" thing. Those big irrational fears that used to haunt my days and nights as I snuggled up with Carlo Rossi or the Gallo Brothers and every so often John Jamison, are gone. I thank my God every day that I had a sponsor that insisted that I get involved in service work early in my soberity. I know what a GSR is. I know what a DCM is. For the first 8 years of this wonderful journey I lead meetings, made coffee, was secretary, made coffee, helped clean up, set up chairs, made coffee and took responsibility for my soberity. Before I came into AA I never even knew what a detox or rehab were. I had never been in a jail. Carrying the message took me to all those places. And I am very happy that I can go to those places and in an hours time leave. I got so involved in AA I didn't have time to think of drinking. The best way to keep sober is get involved either with AA or work with another alcoholic. I have 14 plus years in the program and don't consider myself an old timer. I still have lots to learn. My grandmother used to say that the day you quit learning is the day you die. Think I'll keep coming so I can keep learning. I have a lot to do yet. If it is God's will I will stay around and realize my dream. I want to have 40 years in the program so when I'm 90 I can bring my cane into a meeting and pound some good old fashioned AA common sense into the newcomer. And to Big Bill in RI, Don't pick up the first drink and you won't get drunk. Try water, iced tea or a soft drink. Add a chocolate bar and you just might make it.


Member: Stumpy
Location: DFW
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 10:21:56 PM

Comments

It looks like we have several topics here today. First, the topic of fear. That one is easy. I put all my faith and trust in God, my Father in Heaven, and in Jesus, my Lord and Savior. "Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid." John 14:27 Second, on the topic of GSR, DCM, etc., I don't really care about that at all. Here in North Texas, we had a "trusted" servant at the area level steal $15,000 of AA money earlier this year. Several of the area reps wanted the guy prosecuted since the guy skipped out with no attempt to repay the money. They were rudely shouted down by the majority. They didn't want any bad publicity for AA. For some reason, they decided to misinterpret the tenth tradition to mean that you can't call the police when a crime is committed. Go figure. I don't want any part of that bunch. I just don't give cash to AA anymore. I just purchase coffee, etc. On the third topic, Becky, old timers are not any smarter than anyone else just because they are an old timer. I'm an old timer myself, but that means nothing. I gained my education from college and graduate school, not AA. But, your observation is correct. Some of those old geezers think that because they have been around awhile, they somehow acquire special knowledge. Just remind them that if they came into AA with a drunk IQ of 75, not that they're sober, they still only have an IQ of 75. On top of that, most of the old goats that I know still sit around in meetings and smoke all day. Since nicotine destroys the brain after long term use, due to the lack of blood caused by nicotine's damage to the arteries, their IQ is probably lower than 75 now. However, as you noted, it is the only place where they don't feel inferior and some people give them some respect. So, let them have their little bit of fun. Even children are allowed to go to Fantasyland when they visit Dinseyland. Thanks all. May God Bless You in all ways and in all things.


Member: Patty K
Location: Here
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 10:25:38 PM

Comments

Good topic Craig, Hi everyone, even those of you who seem to want to make fun, or comment negatively on someone's sharing. Maybe you want something we have, huh? Anyway, fear was a big part of my active days. Fear of people, of the dark, of speaking my mind, fear of rejection and of loving, I really identified with you Barbara. Fear of fear. And more fear, my fear only went away when I was blind drunk, and if I was drunk, I was blind drunk, you can bet. I was never done until I couldn't see, a pass out, throw up, black out drunk was I. Today, 7 years after finding out I didn't have to drink and finally getting connected in this program, and finding a connection to a Higher Power, my biggest fear is ever going back there. I hold fear of alcohol as my most healthy fear. I've come a long way since getting sober. I can sleep with the lights off, inside and out. I can speak to anyone, anywhere without fear of being judged, my career is succesful and I have the respect of my peers and supervisors. Mostly I have self respect and self esteem, words that did not compute during my drinking day. I'm going through a rough time right now, marraige on the rocks, but thanks to my HP and my friends in the program, even though my disease tries to tell me a Bud would make me feel better, I don't have to go there. Thanks for letting me share. Have a great week everyone.


Member: Deeanna S.
Location: T, OK
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 12:16:46 AM

Comments

I'm Deeanna S. I'm from T. OK. I think fear is a great topic, because I am afraid of the future...I am coming off a relapse, and sober out of detox a week, with 13 days sober...I miss my sponsor, I am far away from my home group and AA friends...going crazy without a mtg. for two weeks...going to treatment center for a month when I get back home...I get pretty restless, irritable, and discontented... I do a lot of praying, and call my sponsor on the phone, and my friends, I'm afraid of the changes I'm going to have to make, been in depression for months...divorce, etc...but I try to have faith that God will direct me in my whole life to make me a better person, and give back to the people that have helped me...Thanks for letting me share...take care every one and God bless you all as you trudge the road of happy destiny.


Member: petersen
Location: washington
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 12:26:38 AM

Comments

what a great topic. all my life i ran on fear- but the mask it wore was anger and aggressiveness. i was afraid even to be or look afraid- so i made sure i didnt. day by day i work through different fears and i exercise the steps with them. i have been sober a little while and am grateful but i must do these things every day. this disease will always be with me, i must'nt forget the pain and humiliation of my last drunk. this is acunning baffling powerful disease. TO BIG BILL: keep coming back regardless. go to as many face to face meetings as you can pack in. when i am down i go to different meetings across and even out of town. i get alot of good stuff. this program does not work for those who just NEED it, but for those who really want it. we had a fellow come in our fellowship in my home group who was homeless, dirty, scary, many people shied away from him but myself and a few others took him under our wing and he has done very well- he has gone out but he has come back. he gives me hope - he wanted what we had - to be able to live w/o that drink. wanted. keep coming back my prayers are with you.


Member: Rarely
Location:
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 1:21:33 AM

Comments

LORD SAVE ME FROM YOUR FOLLOWERS. AND PLEASE LORD DON'T MAKE ME A SAINT, SOME OF THEM ARE SO HARD TO LIVE WITH. Hi my name is Rarely and Im an alcoholic, Great topic


Member: Andrew
Location: Northern California
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 6:16:03 AM

Comments

Hi all, I'm Andrew and I am an alcholic. Fear is a great topic and thanks to all for the insights. I am having financial trouble, and the fear is just making me crazy. I have been sober almost 90 days. I go to meetings everyday. I am working the steps and I am halfway through the fourth step. It's three am and I'm awake tonight worrying about money. I'm glad to be able to come here and get strength from folks. I'm working on "turning it over" but it's hard for me sometimes. It's seems so easy for some, but it isn't for me. Thanks for listening.


Member: ex problem drinker and now a thinker
Location:
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 8:23:59 AM

Comments

The topic is why do Oldtimers think their shit dont stink.Have you ever noticed how miserable they are,do you really want what they have.Just stop the drinking and have what you once had a life without alcohol and build on your rediscovered self in a positive way without alcohol.If you choose not to drink you may as well reap the rewards and go forward with your life instead of talking about alcohol for the rest of your life.PLEASE EVERYONE STAY ON THE TOPIC.


Member: Joe R.
Location: Florida
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 9:53:21 AM

Comments

My name is Joe and I am a alcoholic. I have learned in A.A. that I can pray to my higher power to remove my fear and to take care of me. I now walk through my fear which makes me stronger. No matter what, I don't drink! Today I feel my feelings and turn it over to my higher power.


Member: Gerald B.
Location: Los Angles
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 9:57:05 AM

Comments

Some people find faults, as if it were a buried treasure.


Member: mike
Location: mount forest,ont canada
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 9:57:59 AM

Comments

Hi am Mike second time around . One of my worst fears while in the program I had a hard time admitting my true feels of people than I got to now my sponsor real will and it came to my first one year and he had done a little talk about the relationship that grow between us and admitted to the whole group at the meeting that he loved as a bro then that brought me more anxiety I had no one ever say say that to me and I had that feeling of him as well a few months later I got to speak at his birthday and I finely admitted that I loved him as a bro as well and it felt good in saying that out loud you never hear guys show our feels to each other but I now say it more and more to other members


Member: B. J. L.
Location: Midland, MI
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 10:12:25 AM

Comments

Here is the most recent link concerning the truth about Bill W, for those that are interested: www.orange-papers.org Seek the truth in all things.


Member: Kathy F.
Location: Texas
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 10:17:50 AM

Comments

I'm Kathy, an alcoholic. When I was drinking, I reached for booze whenever I was struck with rational or irrational fear. In sobriety I was given tools to help me respond to fear. My goal, drunk and for several years sober, was to figure out my "right" response or combination of responses so I could eliminate fear. Later I understood that the response itself is the key, although I do not always remember that in the throes of fear. As for service work and old timers: Service work helped me to practice interacting with other human beings in group settings. All old timers have accomplished one thing I honor: They have not picked up a drink.


Member: Tod H.
Location:
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 10:19:03 AM

Comments

My biggest fear is keeping the will power to continue not drinking, and with the lord and my families support I believe I will conquer my problem.


Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 10:58:36 AM

Comments

Hi, Kelly, alki here. Thanks ((Craig)) for the topic of Fear. You have been around here a while and I enjoy your honest shares. Working step 4 I went back to my first memory at 4 and it was (fear) and that remained so till I got sober and real with myself. I always tried to cover it up with a bunch of disguises and getting looped so I felt no fear. I am a survivor of violence and a prominant Dr. in Boston told me the only therapy they have for fear and panic is to walk through it with the help of another person. The fear that rattles around in my head is more like a suffocating terror. It can really imobilize me quick. Sobering up has helped me to be able to deal with some of this fear. Speaking in meetings was tough and sometimes I just can't but when I can I feel better afterward. I know that alcoholism was one way to shut myself off and not deal with my feelings. I drank mainly though because I'm an alcoholic and I liked the black peace. When I stopped drinking and getting honest I could see the big picture better. I need to work on my PTSD by walking through it, getting back on the horse that threw me. Being sober I can and hopefully will continue to do this tough work. Peace. Kelly :)


Member: Donna
Location: LA
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 11:10:24 AM

Comments

Hi everyone. Donna, alcoholic/addict. Fear is something I think we all struggle with at some time. I am having to learn to unlearn all the fears that were instilled in me as a child and the ones I have now. I get paralyzed with fear. I understand that fear is related to faith. I haven't had much faith in anything for so long. I will have 2 weeks tomorrow. I am just trying to have faith for today that God will keep me sober if I do my part. Thanks for letting me share here.


Member: Amanda C
Location: Atlanta, GA
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 12:47:16 PM

Comments

Amanda, Alcoholic- I have never shared online before, and I have only shared once in a live meeting. Fear of sharing has always been an issue for me...but I fear a lot more than that. I am not new to what recovery is, but I am new in the program. This is my third time in the past 2 years trying to get clean. I feel that I am a failure, and that I will never be successful in my mission. Today is my 6th day clean, and I want nothing more than to pick up yet again. My disease keeps telling me that maybe this time, I could control it. I know that that will never be possible, but it is offly tempting to try it. I have trouble making friends, and especially female one's. I have come to believe that fear of remaining friendless will be my ultimate downfall. Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Thanks for allowing me to share my thoughts.


Member: Amanda C
Location: Atlanta, GA
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 12:47:26 PM

Comments

Amanda, Alcoholic- I have never shared online before, and I have only shared once in a live meeting. Fear of sharing has always been an issue for me...but I fear a lot more than that. I am not new to what recovery is, but I am new in the program. This is my third time in the past 2 years trying to get clean. I feel that I am a failure, and that I will never be successful in my mission. Today is my 6th day clean, and I want nothing more than to pick up yet again. My disease keeps telling me that maybe this time, I could control it. I know that that will never be possible, but it is offly tempting to try it. I have trouble making friends, and especially female one's. I have come to believe that fear of remaining friendless will be my ultimate downfall. Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Thanks for allowing me to share my thoughts.


Member: Martha C
Location: Texas
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 1:15:46 PM

Comments

I identify with you Amanda. I have been in and out of AA so many times over the past 20 years, it's been like a revolving door. I have a tremendous fear of never truly getting sober and dying drunk, even after all the trying. I know that I can't think about that though. I can only be in today, staying sober today and trusting in my Higher Power TODAY. I guest it's up to Him to do the rest. God Bless you. Here's hoping, no believing, that we can both make it - not because we "did it right this time" but because we gave up and trusted our HP completely.


Member: Gomez
Location: NM
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 2:22:42 PM

Comments

FEAR, This is a great topic. When I first came into AA I thought I feared nothing. I soon came to find out I feared a whole lot. Thanks to the program of AA and the good people have met. I fear less now. The one thing I fear the most is myself, because I am my worst enemy. When my mind starts thinking crazy things I am likely to react on them. What I was told that if I listen to my mind I most likely will react, if I listen to my heart I'm better off flipping a coin, now if I listen to my inner self I will be ok. I no one thing I still haven't had to drink. I no if I just keep taking it one day at a time and call my sponser, and work my steps I'll be ok.


Member: Burt W
Location: NJ
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 4:34:56 PM

Comments

This is my first time on your web site and found it by searching for some answers. On the topic of fear, I am searching for answers because I am fearful of losing the people in my life that I care most about. Especially the people that I love and that have been with me for years. For the past year and a half my drinking has escalated to hard alcohol specifically whiskey. Now when I go out I drink an entire bottle of whiskey along with a few shots. I have always been the life of the party and now I am just the talk of party and people do not respect me anymore. I am fearful that if I stop drinking I will lose my ability to have a good time. I know I have a problem, because recently my drinking is making me abusive. I have read some of your posts and they are very helpful in learning some of your coping strategies. One question I have for everyone...I am in my late 20's and my social life for a decade or so revolves around drinking, what are some of the activities or strategies that you did to distract you away from wanting to go out and get drunk? One other issue of fear that I have is my fear that someone will recognize me if I attend an in-person AA meeting. How did you find the courage to attend. Thanks, for providing me an outlet.


Member: Joel
Location: Wi
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 5:16:10 PM

Comments

Burt, the only requirement for attendance at a closed meeting is a desire to stop drinking. I too am in my late 20's, and my life did revolve around drugs and alcohol. AA not only saved my life, but taught me how to live life on life's terms (including how to have fun), and most importantly, brought me to my higher power. You need not worry about being recognized, as that would actually be a good thing for you also. You will be welcomed with open arms. The people in AA have done what I've done, thought what and how I used to think, and have what I want, sobriety. I only need to do what they've done, and I have for the past 8+ years. You have a choice, you don't have to drink anymore if you don't want to...and AA can help you do that.


Member: Dave
Location: Iowa
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 5:54:00 PM

Comments

I'm an alcoholic with almost 18 months sober. I think old timers are very important in the program because they often have had the same problems I have been having and usually give good advice after the meeting. it says aa is a group of men and women whose only desireis to help people stay sober


Member: Barb Mc
Location: PA
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 7:34:55 PM

Comments

Barbara, alcoholic. This is for Burt W in NJ. You are afraid to attend a meeting because someone might recognize you? And you are not afraid that someone might recongnize you when you are being stupid and drunk? Don't you think that everybody you know realizes that you have a problem with alcohol and will back you wholeheartedly when you finally try to help yourself? I'm originally from NJ and know that there are meetings just about 24 hours a day round the clock there. The only people you will lose are those that want to keep drinking and by those I mean you bar buddies not you real friends and family. Coming into AA was the best thing I ever did. I love the life I now have and know I wouldn't have it if it weren't for being sober. Run, don't walk to the nearest meeting and don't worry about what anyone else thinks about you. You are the most important person there is right now. Take care of yourself. NOW!!!


Member: Melissa
Location: Canada
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 9:49:12 PM

Comments

Well, that's a normal fear for a lot of us - who's gonna be at that meeting? I remember seeing this woman from my kids' school at the very, very first meeting I ever went to. God, I was just paralyzed with fear, and dead certain that she was going to tell everyone that I (The Great Melissa) was at an AA meeting. Didn't hear a thing that meeting, except the voices in my own head, and I didn't get sober that first time in AA, either. I stopped going to meetings and, I swear, I hid behind trees for six months every time I picked my children up for fear she would see me and trumpet out loud my terrible secret to all the other parents. When my addiction crippled me beyond all hope, I went back to AA and of course, she was still there - that woman didn't even know who I was! I had to TELL her our kids went to the same school. This story has a pretty sad end, because she had a sad end; she died of causes directly related to active alcoholism two years ago. Anyway, Burt, and any other newcomers, support and encouragement, there is hope - for me, it was fear of dying that brought me back to AA, this disease can and does kill, but it doesn't HAVE to, not for everyone.


Member: Susan W.
Location: St. John-USVI
Date: 11/3/2003
Time: 10:11:05 PM

Comments

Hi everyone-Susan, alcoholic. This is my first time at an online meeting. The topic of fear is always a good one -who doesn't have fear?! Today my biggest fear is ever getting complacent in my recovery. For me the best thing I ever did when I came into the halls of AA was to get involved in the fellowship. That was key with me. Once involved I got to know you and gone was the fear of the unknown. One thing I heard in these halls that I just love is that what anyone thinks about me is none of my business. I put my sobriety first-always. I know that anything I put in front of my sobriety I will lose anyways. You also need to change the person you brought into these halls. That is what the l2 steps will do for you. I thank you all for being here, especially the newcomers.


Member: More Revealed
Location:
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 12:01:36 AM

Comments

Closed meetings is where the real indoctrination takes place.The purpose of teh closed meetings are to transform the unsuspectiong who are having a hard time beig transformed.Remember what happens in the meetings stays in the rooms,especially the closed meetings.The open meetings can be attended by anyone and the what is said here stays here does not carry much weight in openmeetings,but is a biggie on the closed meetings.


Member: Les
Location: Caleeefornia
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 12:13:19 AM

Comments

What a great subject, Craig L. When I first got sober my drinking had cost me jobs and lose of the use of my profession. I felt intense fear when I thought of the future and what I could do for a living. To complicate matters the company for which my wife worked was downsizing and her job was very uncertain and she was our only support. I had been without a real job for some years also we were of an age when jobs are not easy to come by. Sometimes this fear of future financial difficulties became so intense that I suffered anxiety attacks. These attacks were characterized by rapid heartbeat, muscle tension, and hyperventilation which threatened consciousness. One of the AA old timers, who had suffered the same thing as a newcomer, gave me advice and a paper bag to carry in my back pocket. When the attacks would come and hyperventilation started I would whip out my bag sit down and breath in and out with the bag over my mouth and nose until calmness returned. With the dawning of a belief that a Higher Power, a Power greater than myself, could restore me to sanity combined with the act of turning my life and my will over to that Power I came to rely upon faith. I would remind myself that all I need do is take the next indicated step and turn the results over to my Higher Power. I was, indeed, powerless over the outcome of my actions. To worry about and fear the future was meaningless. What will happen will happen. All I can do is my very best in applying the Principles of AA in all my affairs right now, today. I need only trust in God, as I understand God, that all would be well. The amazing thing is that all has been well. The Program works, it really does. When fear overcomes me now I still do the same thing -- remind myself that right now I am all right, take the next indicated step, and I remind myself that I am powerless over what the future may bring. Carpe diem -- seize the day.


Member: Danielle P.
Location: Bonney Lake, WA
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 3:15:21 AM

Comments

I am an alcoholic/addict and my problem is Danielle. Thanx for the good topic. i kinda like the fact of the 3rd tradition. becuase i am completly opposite of craig l. when i drank i becam fearless one night while drunk and stoned i learned that you can face challenge and win as long as your not affriad of it. that night i decide that doing back flips off a chair sounded like fun. luckly i had enough common sence to do it on to a bed. unfortunitly i broke the bed. i soon also relized (while i was drunk and high) that you can face ANYONE as long as your not affraid of the. this is true. i have broken many ribs. and im just a fat 16yr old girl! lol. i think being fearless in recovery can be a good thing anf a bad thing. you don't wanna be so fear less that you hold your buddys drink for him while you only have a month of time. but you don't wanna be so paronoid that you can't leave your home for fear of being tempted cuz that will happen any way. any way thanx to the peeps who set this system up


Member: Danielle P.
Location: Bonney Lake, WA
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 3:15:38 AM

Comments

I am an alcoholic/addict and my problem is Danielle. Thanx for the good topic. i kinda like the fact of the 3rd tradition. becuase i am completly opposite of craig l. when i drank i becam fearless one night while drunk and stoned i learned that you can face challenge and win as long as your not affriad of it. that night i decide that doing back flips off a chair sounded like fun. luckly i had enough common sence to do it on to a bed. unfortunitly i broke the bed. i soon also relized (while i was drunk and high) that you can face ANYONE as long as your not affraid of the. this is true. i have broken many ribs. and im just a fat 16yr old girl! lol. i think being fearless in recovery can be a good thing anf a bad thing. you don't wanna be so fear less that you hold your buddys drink for him while you only have a month of time. but you don't wanna be so paronoid that you can't leave your home for fear of being tempted cuz that will happen any way. any way thanx to the peeps who set this system up


Member: S.
Location: DFW
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 10:05:22 AM

Comments

Amanda, you are not a failure. Failure is an event, not a person. My suggestion is that you dedicate your life to Jesus Christ this very day. Ask for the forgiveness of your sins and your Father in Heaven will forgive you. You will be born again and a new person in Jesus Christ. Read the epistles of Paul and you will understand. Ask God and ask Jesus to heal you and relieve you of your alcoholism. If you are a true believer, you will be healed. It worked for me, it has worked for countless others, and it will always work for people who believe and who earnestly ask. No man-made program will work in the long run, be it AA or any other twelve step program, acupuncture, aversion therapy, drugs, etc. Only God and His Son Jesus Christ will heal you. - - - Also, I am glad to see you speak of the fact that you want to be completely clean. When you rely on the love and healing hand of God and Jesus, you will have no need for other drugs - nicotine, anti-depressants, barbibuates, etc. God Bless You, Amanda. May the peace and love of Jesus Christ be with you this day and evermore.


Member: lkl
Location: usa
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 11:29:45 AM

Comments

For years, I was 0plagued with fear and anxiety. I drank to relieve it. The more I drank, though, the worse it became. Then I came to fear the drink itself but couldn't figure a way out until I went to AA. The program helped me make it one day at a time. I haven't had a drink for quite awhile..I no longer crave it nor do I live with fear and anxiety. As far as the old timers, the folks I know in that category are great. Their experience and wisdom in the program are an inspiration for me.


Member: getting better and better
Location: thanx to you all.......
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 2:39:26 PM

Comments

Hey thanx so much to the BABE FAN in DRY CITIES)) just what i needed to hear to help me get well today. I thank you sincerely. by the way: ((YOU CAN CALL ME BABE)) BIKERBABE WAS MY OLD HANDLE. look me up if you have some extra time on your hands. bye now.


Member: Leland
Location: SB, CA
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 3:49:53 PM

Comments

I so enjoy the anti-AA strings, however there is such a sadness in flaming a web site where folks come to be positive and try and lead a sober life. Nonetheless, this topic hits me directly today. All day I've been stewing in fear about taking a business trip. One thing seems to come to mind about my fears: I'm powerless over everything that will happen during the trip except my behavior and my attitude. Both my attitude and behavior can be effected by the steps and if I take a moment to remember my past (seeings that I have a very short memory.) First my last 72 hours of drinking were full of fears: can I stop drinking, will I live, will I have a place to call home... Next, recalling all the difficult times in soberity and realizing that in the 10 years of sobriety, I have yet to be let down by the program.


Member: Bill M
Location: Georgia
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 5:07:58 PM

Comments

hello i am new to a.a. my fear is starting back drinking again. you all seem to depend on the 12 steps so much . that can any one tell me were i can find them on the enternet. so i can make me a copy of them. i enjoy reading all your thoughts. i been two weeks with out a drink an counting. thank god.


Member: Cedric O.
Location:
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 5:17:46 PM

Comments

FEAR THIS IF YO CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH http://aorange1.tripod.com/


Member: blanche
Location:
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 6:26:31 PM

Comments

Oldtimers are just a pile of broken records covered in crap. They don't scare me, just bore and depress me. Makes you want a drink just listening to them.


Member: us
Location: everywhere
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 6:48:52 PM

Comments

http://aorange1.tripod.com/ wow talk about fruitcakes! roflmao! some mental midget obsessed with bashing AA. lol for the real deal get to a local meeting of AA and try to identify with the drunks there. If you don't want it or dont like it you are welcome to go! Never seen any pressure to force any one to do anything in AA. also the only true AA site on the web is: www.aa.org


Member: Terry
Location: UK
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 7:50:05 PM

Comments

fear is healthy, stops complacency and smugness...I wish. Anyway the first ten years of my recovery was about not drinking cos I was scared of what it did to me. Now I dont drink cos I'm scared I'll have to back to the bloody meetings. Stay safe


Member: john b
Location: kentucky
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 10:23:34 PM

Comments

my name is john, alcoholic. I owe aa my life. I had little chance of surviving even another year before I came in to the program. At the time I was unemployable and had caused my family a great deal of sorrow. That was 18 years ago. I now have a beautiful family, a good job, my health and (most days) my sanity. I still have fears, but the meetings, the steps and my friends in the program help me walk through the ordinary fears of life.


Member: Richard S.
Location: San Diego, CA
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 10:43:32 PM

Comments

My name is Richard, I am an alcoholic. First time here. I used to live in fear. I liked being there. It was something I knew well. Now I don't like it. Now I write about it and give it to the 'God" I believe in, through the 12 steps. For me this works. Thanks for being here.


Member: Jeff
Location: Ne.
Date: 11/4/2003
Time: 11:31:58 PM

Comments

Fear? When i think of the fears i had when drinking i just dont know how i was able to handle life as i was living it. The best way i can explain it is to give you page #`s 63 & 64 from the book of Alcoholics Anonymous. This is what worked for me. For the newcomers who dont know what i`m talking about get you hands on the book & read it. Or you can read it on-line. Thanks. http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~clyde/BillW/BB_Introduction.html


Member: Dietrich M
Location: Afghanistan
Date: 11/5/2003
Time: 1:07:31 PM

Comments

The thing about old timers, is that they have made it this far sober, and yes not all of them have the quality of sobriety I want, but they still got it. Theres no need to be afraid of them, and when they complain about what you are doing, take it with a grain of salt, sometimes they are right. And if you think they are wrong, ask your sponsor.


Member: Bob
Location: Uk
Date: 11/5/2003
Time: 1:33:23 PM

Comments

Hi Bob here, alcoholic. I read what Amanda shared. Yeah, I know the feeling well .. As long as I said 'I WAS GOING TO CONTROL IT' it didn't work. In and out of AA rooms and liquor stores like a demented yoyo for years. As the book says - We are powerless over alcohol. I had to take the 'I' out of the equation. When I finally realised that I wasn't in control - I had to look for help from a higher power. I don't know how to say this properly but when I think of drinking I ask for help and guidance... not for ever ... just for now. Just for today, one day at a time... If nothing else just keep going to meetings and don't drink in between them. Bye... I'm going to a meeting.


Member: Bob
Location: Uk
Date: 11/5/2003
Time: 1:33:38 PM

Comments

Hi Bob here, alcoholic. I read what Amanda shared. Yeah, I know the feeling well .. As long as I said 'I WAS GOING TO CONTROL IT' it didn't work. In and out of AA rooms and liquor stores like a demented yoyo for years. As the book says - We are powerless over alcohol. I had to take the 'I' out of the equation. When I finally realised that I wasn't in control - I had to look for help from a higher power. I don't know how to say this properly but when I think of drinking I ask for help and guidance... not for ever ... just for now. Just for today, one day at a time... If nothing else just keep going to meetings and don't drink in between them. Bye... I'm going to a meeting.


Member: AZbill
Location: azbill1172@cox.net
Date: 11/5/2003
Time: 3:08:09 PM

Comments

Hi Bill here. Alcoholic from Arizona. On fear. I was full of it when I quit drinking. Fear of alcoholic seizures. Fear that AA would not work for me. Some minor fears. All were taken care of with several fourth steps. On Service. I have been at area but choose to let the younger members to that. I believe in the spirit of rotating leadership. All I do now is work with the professional community on the CPC Committee locally. I do not consider sponsorship as service work. I sponsor to save my butt, just as my sponsors did to save theirs. On "Oldtimers" I have not had a drink in several years. I will not apologize to the stereotypers and cynics for that. I have no control over the passing of time. So if oldtimers bother you then move on. Anyway it is not the distance from the last drink that counts, it is the distance to the next one. In that we are all equal. The next drink will get most alcoholics drunk. I meet with my sponsees as equals. I cannot get anyone sober or drunk. That is your choice not mine. If you need help I will try; if you do not want what I have to offer then just press on. On intelligence. I did not get intelligent in AA. But I got sober enough to earn a degree and get published in my field. Not too shabby for a jackass that came from the alleys and sleeping in sheds. I believe that covers it all for now. Take care I love you all and there isn't a darn thing you can do about it. Bill


Member: day day
Location: chay chay
Date: 11/5/2003
Time: 3:16:32 PM

Comments

When I am in fear or doubt, I remember this verse from the bible: "Fear thou not, I am with thee, be not dismayed, I am thy God, I will strengthen thee, yea, I will help thee, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness"..


Member: CH
Location: US
Date: 11/5/2003
Time: 4:07:59 PM

Comments

I'm Carolyn and I'm an alcholoic. One thing I've heard around the tables in my homegroup is something that could be food for thought about old timers. So if you are upset at an old timer and carefully taking his/her inventory, erase his/her name and replace it with your own. You spot it you got it. About fear...When I'm spiritually fit, and that means totally trusting God, I know that God will take care of whatever it is. It may not turn out the way I wanted it, or feel okay to me, but I don't have to drink over it.


Member: the
Location: mav
Date: 11/5/2003
Time: 7:10:49 PM

Comments

Damn Carolyn, can you get any stupider? Just because someone "spots" something doesn't mean they "got it!" As a matter of fact, it very likely means they are smart enough to recognize idiocy and stupidity hwen they see it and not hide behind some dumb-ass saying like that you just parroted----yack-yack....


Member: the
Location: mav
Date: 11/5/2003
Time: 7:11:56 PM

Comments

Then you attempt to instill fear into the newbies by not letting them share their true feelings and thoughts, unless it matches up with the aa-brainwashing techniques you so readily employ....


Member: Joe B.
Location: Charleston, WV
Date: 11/5/2003
Time: 7:41:38 PM

Comments

Hi gang, fear and pride are the opposite sides of the same coin. It took a lot of written 4th steps to see it. Someone told me Stick With The Winners.Enoiugh said about drunks with more sobriety time than you. About that song, oh Lord its hard to be humble, perfect in every way. My sponsor told me if you dont believe what we say and want to go out again, here is $5 ,go out and buy yourself a bottle. Its more powerful than I. I learned that in 79, after my wife left with the kids, and i did stay sober.So if you dont accept what i say, thats your problem.


Member: ITS MEDICATION TIME!!!
Location: HOW TO FEEL GOOD PART 3 (SECTION 12)) ARTICLE 10
Date: 11/6/2003
Time: 12:06:14 AM

Comments

DONT'HANG WHERE USERS HANG..((BUT DON'T JUDGE THEM WHEN YA LEAVE EITHER))... FIND IN YOUR HEART FORGIVENESS FOR "ALL OF IT" ((REAL OR IMAGINED)) ;) TAKE IT EASY ON YOUR YOURSELF AND OTHERS)) GIVE YOURSELF A BREAK AND LIKE MAGIC YOU'LL GIVE OTHERS A BREAK)) DON'T COMMENT ON OTHERS COMMENTS AND DONT' ASK THEM TO SEE THIER PANTIES, BUT DO CALL THEM SMARTY PANTIES IF THEY HAVE HAD SOME SUCCESS)) (YUK YUK YUK! ;) BYE NOW. DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHAT YOUR NOT GETTING, ITS PROBABLY FOR THE BEST ANYWAYS....GET GOD, GET PEACE, GET A LIFE. THANX, I'LL GO AND DO THE SAME. 3 SLAPS FOR THE NEWCOMERS; THE STEP ONE SLAP, STEP 2 SLAP, AND THE STEP 3 SLAP....SLAP SLAP SLAP... :)


Member: Take your own medicine
Location:
Date: 11/6/2003
Time: 2:21:00 AM

Comments

Member: the Location: mav Date: 11/5/2003 Time: 7:11:56 PM Comments Then you attempt to instill fear into the newbies by not letting them share their true feelings and thoughts, unless it matches up with the anti aa-brainwashing techniques you so readily employ.... Your full of it just like me!!!!!!!!!


Member: Mike M
Location: MA
Date: 11/6/2003
Time: 6:15:09 AM

Comments

I heard the phrase "you can't scare an alcoholic" in AA. I learned that means our fear of alcohol will not be the only thing to keep us from taking that next drink. For the real alcoholic as described in the big book I must apply the principles of the steps in my life to overcome the alcohol problem. The fears in me that are damaging are the self centered ones. The disease is fear generates charactor defects and charactor defects generate fear. And on and on until I drink. Then the alergic reaction of craving sets in. Staying sober today has much less to do with me being afraid of alcohol and a lot more of my acceptance that I will drink again unless I practice the spiritual program of recovery in AA. It looks like another great day to be sober! (always does)


Member: PappyPaw B.
Location: Lower Mi USA
Date: 11/6/2003
Time: 11:04:45 AM

Comments

I had a wonderful thing happen to me right off this morning...I awoke sober. Because of this I have a choice of how I will spend this day. I shall celebrate by giving myself another day without drinking alcohol. I am PappyPaw and I am a grateful alcoholic. The Older the Piano, the more apt it is to be out of tune. Old Timer and Bleeding Deacon rhyme.. I knew right off when I had learened everything...No one ask me any more questions! For me Faith mellows fear. I want to be free of fear but find myself very human. I need God to give me the needed strength to live a life where I do not have the need to drink. I find these "Spiritual Needs" needs fulfilled at the meetings where "Spiritual Gifts" are freely offered to thise who want. I thank all for the "Spiritusl Gifts" of this day. PappyPaw


Member: lkj
Location: usa
Date: 11/6/2003
Time: 12:26:10 PM

Comments

I think the "AA Secrets" stuff is a bunch of baloney. AA is a program that offers people an opportunity to get sober and stay sober with the support of other alcoholics. AA clearly states that if an alcoholic can get sober without the program..then their hats are off to that person. Alcoholism is a mind/body disease that defies a conventional cure. AA is a rather unconventional program designed to deal with this disease. For folks who are new or in doubt, attend a few meetings with an open mind. Disregard all the crap about Bill Wilson. He had problems but he also designed a program thats saved millions of lives. Talk with people who work with alcoholics, they'll provide true insight into the value of the program. Most recommend it. Be wary to claims posted on the internet. For that matter, you don't have to believe me. Give AA a try..there's a reason its been around for so long. Good luck.


Member: jkl
Location:
Date: 11/6/2003
Time: 3:37:15 PM

Comments

lkj,choosing to drink is not a disease,are you that stupid to believe that,you are just as dumb as yu are stupid dude or dudette,the crap about Bill W. is true.


Member: right on pappy
Location:
Date: 11/6/2003
Time: 3:39:18 PM

Comments

Yes pappy,it is all about choice,people can either choose to gets sloshed or they can choose to be responsible like you and so many others have.


Member: d. nicole shandley
Location:
Date: 11/6/2003
Time: 3:50:13 PM

Comments

hello to my fellow recovering friends. what i got from this weeks topic is fear of everyday life things that we really have no controll over. i to ran from my fears for a really long time. i also ran from things i didnt want to deal with, in my life. i only have 60 days clean right now for the fourth time trying, and my biggest fear right now is of messing up or relapsing. i am scared to death of being put in the hospital again, and again. anyways thanks for letting me share.


Member: Ron L
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Date: 11/6/2003
Time: 5:29:28 PM

Comments

Some people look for faults as if it were a buried treasure. It would be nothing short of a big laugh if we were to look into the private life of those who get of at dressing down Bill W. And the A.A. program. We know better than most that as long as were pointing the finger at some one else we don't have to look at ourselfs, a neat trick except it will catch up to us sooner than later, as most of us know.


Member: ponytails53@
Location: yahoo.co.uk
Date: 11/6/2003
Time: 7:43:17 PM

Comments

thinkinking 4 ourselves,duh. my best thinking got me into A.A. Get a grip!!


Member: Hank
Location:
Date: 11/6/2003
Time: 9:33:57 PM

Comments

ponytails,listen to yourself repeating crap that you heard upon your arrival in AA,just cause they told you that does not mean it is true.The truth is your worst thinking got you into AA and just imagine this it will be your best thinking that gets you out of AA and onto a more productive life,and who says there's no hope for us alkies.The slogan your best thinking got you here is something told to the newcomers to silence them when they question just what in the hell is going on and then they are politely told that their best thinking got them to the doors of AA.It is simply a way of telling you to shut up and listen because you know nothing and believe every word as if every word they say is true.Sadly ponytails,folks such as yourself buy into every bit of.


Member: Hank
Location:
Date: 11/6/2003
Time: 9:34:55 PM

Comments

ponytails,listen to yourself repeating crap that you heard upon your arrival in AA,just cause they told you that does not mean it is true.The truth is your worst thinking got you into AA and just imagine this it will be your best thinking that gets you out of AA and onto a more productive life,and who says there's no hope for us alkies.The slogan your best thinking got you here is something told to the newcomers to silence them when they question just what in the hell is going on and then they are politely told that their best thinking got them to the doors of AA.It is simply a way of telling you to shut up and listen because you know nothing and believe every word as if every word they say is true.Sadly ponytails,folks such as yourself buy into every bit of.


Member: Deborah H
Location: Atlanta
Date: 11/7/2003
Time: 2:21:06 PM

Comments

Hi, Deborah, alcoholic. My fear early in recovery was that I had to believe everything everyone in a meeting said. My wise sponsor told me to listen anyway, ask about things that confused me, and share when I needed to. I left many early meetings feeling that I was doomed because I don't "do the God thing" and the paradoxes of the program had me reeling. Or I was upset that some people (many times old-timers) frown on treatments like psychotherapy or antidepressants. Or I just wanted a drink! I came to realize that I wanted a drink anytime I had a feeling, and since we are creatures with constant feelings, I constantly wanted OUT. I was fearful, and therefore angry, all the time. I just got sick of feeling that way, so I learned to listen more, especially when people said, "You know what? It doesn't have to make sense to you. It just has to work." And it works for me, HP or no. My anger can always be bridged back to fear. It just feels better to be happy. I try to be kind, I try to be patient, I try to be tolerant. Sometimes I am. I learned that in AA.


Member: Deborah H
Location: Atlanta
Date: 11/7/2003
Time: 2:21:16 PM

Comments

Hi, Deborah, alcoholic. My fear early in recovery was that I had to believe everything everyone in a meeting said. My wise sponsor told me to listen anyway, ask about things that confused me, and share when I needed to. I left many early meetings feeling that I was doomed because I don't "do the God thing" and the paradoxes of the program had me reeling. Or I was upset that some people (many times old-timers) frown on treatments like psychotherapy or antidepressants. Or I just wanted a drink! I came to realize that I wanted a drink anytime I had a feeling, and since we are creatures with constant feelings, I constantly wanted OUT. I was fearful, and therefore angry, all the time. I just got sick of feeling that way, so I learned to listen more, especially when people said, "You know what? It doesn't have to make sense to you. It just has to work." And it works for me, HP or no. My anger can always be bridged back to fear. It just feels better to be happy. I try to be kind, I try to be patient, I try to be tolerant. Sometimes I am. I learned that in AA.


Member: ponytails53
Location: yahoo.co.uk
Date: 11/7/2003
Time: 3:41:52 PM

Comments

"a more productive life". how about practicing these principles and trying to carry this message? wow! not bad for an in the gutter drunk.


Member: for ponytails since you did not get it the first time,keep reading it until you get it
Location:
Date: 11/7/2003
Time: 5:14:59 PM

Comments

ponytails,listen to yourself repeating crap that you heard upon your arrival in AA,just cause they told you that does not mean it is true.The truth is your worst thinking got you into AA and just imagine this it will be your best thinking that gets you out of AA and onto a more productive life,and who says there's no hope for us alkies.The slogan your best thinking got you here is something told to the newcomers to silence them when they question just what in the hell is going on and then they are politely told that their best thinking got them to the doors of AA.It is simply a way of telling you to shut up and listen because you know nothing and believe every word as if every word they say is true.Sadly ponytails,folks such as yourself buy into every bit of.


Member: GloriaS
Location: West
Date: 11/7/2003
Time: 7:26:43 PM

Comments

This is the first time I've been to an online meeting and I'm shocked at the lack of acceptance and respect I've heard. People shouldn't have to be afraid of getting attacked in an AA meeting and called stupid or preached the gospel of Jesus Christ. None of those things are part of the program that I'm aware of. So many people have said that they only stayed in AA at first because they felt safe to be who they were. Anyway, I'm just trying to promote a little kindness here.


Member: Steve
Location: Orlando
Date: 11/7/2003
Time: 8:16:58 PM

Comments

Go Gloria-First time here. I really need a meeting and was outside smoking thinking WHAT A BLESSING. I am here with the kids all weekend, cant get to a F2F meeting, then come back in to the back biting. No thanks. I always heard fear is a lack of faith and that is how I tackle fear--on my knees. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Kim V
Location: Seminole FL
Date: 11/7/2003
Time: 9:48:09 PM

Comments

Kim V here alcholic, I use to sing on from NC but have just recently moved back to Fl. a few months back. Fear. I thought when I joined AA and did the steps that all my fears and anxiety would go away. You know what it doesn't go away, but I am learning to deal with it much better. The fear is not as intense and I am no longer scared of everything single thing every single minute. I am learning new coping skills and learning that what I choose to tell myself either decreases or increases my fear and anxiety. Becky what is your problem with old timers, miss now it all. If your around in 10 years I bet you'll have some answers that some new timers don't. the longer you stick with anything in life the more your learn about it. that not only comes from an old timer but it also comes from PLAN COMMOM SENSE. BIG BILL I know I could never have quit drinking with a spouse who drank and kept alcohol in the house. What lengths are you willing to go to stop drinking would be my first question to you Bill? Back to fear. Today fear of losing my life, soberity and anything that means anything to me is a healthy thing. It sure helps me think things through. thanks for letting me share


Member: Larry C.
Location:
Date: 11/7/2003
Time: 10:28:05 PM

Comments

Kim V.,Some of what you say is true.However cmon child there is nothing to learn in our program beyond a year or so.About all the oldtimers learn to do is to lead a meeting and keep things on topic,hey its their hour of the day to shine,so they think they shine,let them think it.Other than that you know no more than the average member who has a year or so in the program but the inner workings of the program prop these old farts up to be something,larger than life if you will.(only in an AAers eyes)The genreal public would laugh at such nonsense. FEARS ASS.


Member: Shorty
Location: Tacoma
Date: 11/7/2003
Time: 10:41:20 PM

Comments

Larry C., excellent analysis my friend. One of the things Bill Wilson got right was his observation that AA is nothing but a 'spiritual kindergarten,' I have been in AA for over ten years, so I guess some would consider me one of the old farts (at least I have been referred to by that term). But, I graduated from AA long ago. However, when I to go to a meeting, I see some of those really old farts sitting there repeating those dumb AA slogans just like a kid in nursery school reciting meaningless nursery rhymes. It is really sad. But, as you note, maybe that's all they can accomplish. Good thing it is not done in public. As you correctly observed, the general public would laugh at all of the juvenile nonsense.


Member: Mary S
Location: Western WA
Date: 11/8/2003
Time: 10:14:30 AM

Comments

Fear...of being blessed with many years of continuous sobriety and having your inventory taken by others who have fear of looking at their own lives and therefore, look for that which they do not like in others- I have a character defect it is that I am HUMAN and therefore, I will not always say what you want to hear. Be patient with the old timers you who are young...If you keep coming back to take Their inventory you may become an old-timer yourself someday and then you will have your inventory taken by the fearful newbie too. "You will suddenly realize God is doing for you what you could not do for yourself..."


Member: robert
Location: toronto
Date: 11/8/2003
Time: 11:13:54 AM

Comments


Member: June w.
Location: Nashville, tN
Date: 11/8/2003
Time: 4:30:33 PM

Comments

I am an alcoholic, named June. Talk about the "Old Timers", if it wasn't for them I would not be here. They made a path for me. I listen to them in the rooms.I might not like what they say...but I listen...I take their suggestions...wondering why????then My HP reveals what is going on and why i did what was suggested. There is Service, Recovery and Unity and without the traiangle we would not have the balance we need in AA. If one leg is not right with the other two...it is lopsided and the we have a problem...Where ever there is a problme....there is a solution. That is what the BB tells me. Thank you for letting me share


Member: JK
Location: Il
Date: 11/8/2003
Time: 7:02:21 PM

Comments

I'm sober and I've been sober and a single Mom for quite awhile now. Sometimes when I go to a meeting I just want to say what I need to say and to feel accepted.But in my area, (like someone already pointed out} there seems to be juvenile things going on and sometimes I leave feeling angry or some other unwanted emotion. Then if I start thinking about it - I get confused.Its hard some times to find peace of mind but I know that peace comes from God who I pray to help me stop drinking. One conclusion I come to sometimes some aa's want to control things.Right now I'm thinking about not having my so called home group because of some of the juvenile things and thoughtlessness that happens.So I guess I'll have to fit in somewhere else which is a great fear for me - even to this day, because I'm sober for awhile.


Member: Joe B.
Location: Seattle
Date: 11/8/2003
Time: 8:37:58 PM

Comments

I've heard it said that AA is a society of sheep, led by parrots. In my experience (23 years plus) I needed to hear the "stuff" repeated several times before I got it. Even so, I needed to hear it again and again before it "popped into my mind" before my taking a drink. I'm glad to hear anyone's new ideas, and I often learn when I hear someone new repeating an old idea.


Member: Jane
Location: Kentucky
Date: 11/8/2003
Time: 9:42:26 PM

Comments

JK, I'm sorry to hear about your experiences in AA meetings. Unfortunately, it is common. Whenever I go to a meeting, I try to remember that only two percent (2%) of the people that come to AA ever get clean and sober. So, ninety-eight (98%) of the people there don't have anything meaningful to say. As you noted, they are juvenile, immature, unintelligent, mean spirited, dishonest, etc. I just try to tune them out and listen to the 2% that are clean and sober. Until a new program comes around that actually works and has a higher success rate, that's the best we can hope for today. God bless you, JK, and stay clean for your kids.


Member: AA sucess rate
Location: Highest
Date: 11/8/2003
Time: 10:14:54 PM

Comments

Not true Jane. AA works. You do not have the facts.


Member: AA sucess rate
Location: Highest
Date: 11/8/2003
Time: 10:25:20 PM

Comments

Not true Jane. AA works. You do not have the facts.


Member: kimberley
Location: seattle
Date: 11/8/2003
Time: 11:20:03 PM

Comments

Kimberley here recovering alcholic and old timer, if you want what we have and our willing to go to any lenght to get you are ready for certain steps some here are not readf for those steps so hears some oldtima wisdom, fear=lack of faith, fear knocks and faith answers, F.E.A.R. F--K EVERYTHING AND RUN, FACE EVERYTHING AND RECOVER AND FINALLY EVERYTHING IS ALRIGHT, There are only 24 hours in a day and its one day at a time i will say that your anxiety levels measure the distance you are from god or a hp. keep coming back it does work if you work it, take the cotton out of your ears and out it in your mouth.


Member: Hamish
Location:
Date: 11/9/2003
Time: 12:41:58 AM

Comments

Hi all - Hamish here - grateful alcoholic. I try and do the 3rd step to deal with my fear. I haven't had a drink for just over 2 years and have been doing step 1,2 and 3 on and off. I know that it is time to do a 4th step. I need to make peace with my past and my fears - need to say goodbye to shame and guilt. I think the 4th step will help me do this. I need to accept that God loves me and I'm worthy of his love. Bill from Arizona please keep up the good work, I always enjoy and sometimes need your posts! I've been coming here on and off for about 1.5 years. Sending hugs to all / one day at a time don't pick up the first drink and go to meetings! AA works.


Member: Titus
Location: Northern Canada
Date: 11/9/2003
Time: 2:49:48 AM

Comments

To all those who think they are some kind of intellectual genius when it comes to interpretation of the A.A. program of recovery. I ask why of earth do you come here when you could be making your own mark by writting a perfect program for recovering alcoholics that would be void of any criticism from all the nuts out in the world. Just imagine a program that those who can't put a week of sobriety together could come on your site and have nothing but praise for your fine work. I guess that would be asking to much cause you can't stay sober long enough to make any sense out of what your saying on this site


Member: BIG BILL
Location: WEST KINGSTON,RI.
Date: 11/9/2003
Time: 5:21:18 AM

Comments

BURT W. NJ DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHO YOU WILL MEET AT AN AA MEETING,THEY ARE ALL DRUNKS JUST LIKE YOU.


Member: Anne S
Location: glasgow scotland
Date: 11/9/2003
Time: 9:06:44 AM

Comments

bill m welcome to a whole new life honey,dont drink today and try to hang out with others who do the same.dont know if you have local aa meetings but if you do ,go to as many as you can especially if you dont want to coz those are the times you need them most,good luck babe,you and aa can do this together.az bill thanks pal,your posts are always relevant and are always good for me,you are just so much better at saying it than me.never been good at explaining things but super sensitive about life for years.i am getting a little better now and accept its just not one of my god given talents.been good to get back on-site and know everyone whose name i recognize are well.today i am not going to drink because i neither need to or want to,that feels good and so does being part of a fellowship that supports that decision on both counts.love ya all..soberiety rocks!!!!!


Member: Anne S
Location: glasgow scotland
Date: 11/9/2003
Time: 9:24:14 AM

Comments

bill m welcome to a whole new life honey,dont drink today and try to hang out with others who do the same.dont know if you have local aa meetings but if you do ,go to as many as you can especially if you dont want to coz those are the times you need them most,good luck babe,you and aa can do this together.az bill thanks pal,your posts are always relevant and are always good for me,you are just so much better at saying it than me.never been good at explaining things but super sensitive about life for years.i am getting a little better now and accept its just not one of my god given talents.been good to get back on-site and know everyone whose name i recognize are well.today i am not going to drink because i neither need to or want to,that feels good and so does being part of a fellowship that supports that decision on both counts.love ya all..soberiety rocks!!!!!


Member: Amanda
Location: NW Montana
Date: 11/9/2003
Time: 9:38:54 AM

Comments

I thought the purpose of this web site is to support and encourage each other to stay sober. Canít we try a little hared to help those who are struggling with their sobriety? Those angry with AA who feel the need to set such a negative tone and help no one. Any method that works to help someone stay sober is good. It is better than having them out there drinking and using. Jane, your statistical quotes about AA success rates are low and incorrect. AA has been calculated to have a 10% success rate. To be honest, I am not sure how anyone could accurately quantify the success or failure rate because of the nature of meetings and the program. We donít ďjoinĒ AA or check in for a 28-day stay where someone could include us as a part of a study. I do know that formal rehab programs, where you are there for 28 days, such as the Betty Ford, Hazelton and Pathways (who by the way all use a form of AA that is incorporated into the program) quote follow-up sobriety rates of 10 to 20 percent. What I do know is this, I am an intelligent professional that tried several private and very expensive outpatient rehab programs because I was extremely resistant to going to AA. I thought it would be filled with losers and street bums smoking and drinking coffee as the feebly talked about how they ruin their life by boozing. OK, some of the meetings ARE like that and meet a need for those people. I am happy they are sober! I shopped around until I found several meetings that were helpful to me. I was lucky during my early sobriety to live in a city area where I could find a variety. I started by attending an after work group that had many professionals that I could relate to. While I hated going to AA, I knew these AA people had something I did not have; sustained sobriety. I wanted to know how to achieve that so I kept going to the meetings. I found a sponsor by asking the group leader to help me. My group had two physicians, several software programmers, a lady lawyer, a teacher in a masters program, an advertising executive, a stock broker and various other professions. There was lots of great support in the room. Because the meetings were moderated by someone who was good at meeting process rarely did I ever hear garbage and negativity in the room. I stopped feeling like a failure myself and learned how to stay sober for more than a few weeks at a time. Now it has been 4 years of sustained sobriety. So if I am one in 2% or one in 20%, I donít care. It worked for me and it can work for any of you out there reading this post. LOTS of people are sober because of AA and that is good enough for me. Simply put, AA works if you work the program. Please be kind to one another. We are all just trying to get by! I thought the purpose of this web site is to support and encourage each other to stay sober. Canít we try a little hared to help those who are struggling with their sobriety? Those angry with AA who feel the need to set such a negative tone and help no one. Any method that works to help someone stay sober is good. It is better than having them out there drinking and using. Jane, your statistical quotes about AA success rates are low and incorrect. AA has been calculated to have a 10% success rate. To be honest, I am not sure how anyone could accurately quantify the success or failure rate because of the nature of meetings and the program. We donít ďjoinĒ AA or check in for a 28-day stay where someone could include us as a part of a study. I do know that formal rehab programs, where you are there for 28 days, such as the Betty Ford, Hazelton and Pathways (who by the way all use a form of AA that is incorporated into the program) quote follow-up sobriety rates of 10 to 20 percent. What I do know is this, I am an intelligent professional that tried several private and very expensive outpatient rehab programs because I was extremely resistant to going to AA. I thought it would be filled with losers and street bums smoking and drinking coffee as the feebly talked about how they ruin their life by boozing. OK, some of the meetings ARE like that and meet a need for those people. I am happy they are sober! I shopped around until I found several meetings that were helpful to me. I was lucky during my early sobriety to live in a city area where I could find a variety. I started by attending an after work group that had many professionals that I could relate to. While I hated going to AA, I knew these AA people had something I did not have; sustained sobriety. I wanted to know how to achieve that so I kept going to the meetings. I found a sponsor by asking the group leader to help me. My group had two physicians, several software programmers, a lady lawyer, a teacher in a masters program, an advertising executive, a stock broker and various other professions. There was lots of great support in the room. Because the meetings were moderated by someone who was good at meeting process rarely did I ever hear garbage and negativity in the room. I stopped feeling like a failure myself and learned how to stay sober for more than a few weeks at a time. Now it has been 4 years of sustained sobriety. So if I am one in 2% or one in 20%, I donít care. It worked for me and it can work for any of you out there reading this post. LOTS of people are sober because of AA and that is good enough for me. Simply put, AA works if you work the program. Please be kind to one another. We are all just trying to get by!


Member: Pi "The Prophet" Koan
Location: Right here, Right Now
Date: 11/9/2003
Time: 11:04:29 AM

Comments

Hi Pi here alcholic. My fear right now is that it's already the first day of the week yet the topic has not yet been changed from last. And now the scripts won't scroll down that it only writes in one straight line. I have been "ON" from sometime now because I'm different, vulnerable, odd, poor economic and cultural upbringing, etc. etc., which I really fear in my life and people who are predators, which a bunch of people herd among themselves to be their leaders and chiefs,pry on easily. But I tell you if I didn't fear my experience of being drunk I wouln't have written anything here right now because I probably would be out there happy drinking with people who are the "normies". But I'm not and that's why I know I don't have any desire at all to drink. See even if I have 13 years in sobriety I feel shitty, haywire and get a lot of panic and anxiety attacks and all this has its caused in my drinking days. Drugs doesn't make people so violent as much as alcohol does, it's only when alcohol is mixed with drugs that there would be a lot of crazy stuff that really will freak your brain out of whack. and if you are used to it while groqwing up, chances are your habits and personlaties are hard to break even though how much you want to change and know better. Fear is actually the dominant force in this life. Without it you would die. And Love as what those other moralizer and know it all think is the answer to fear, is actually Fear in itself. We fear who we love most. Another aspect would be the religionist, what keeps them on the moral side? It is their fear to go to hell after they die, that's why they are motivated to do and say good things, even though they don't know that it is all hypocrisy but hey like me if you are doing the right thing of not getting drunk then you don't get drunk and suffer from being drunk. But right now I have more fears to face up to, and that is the people who antagonizes me, give me a hard time and prey and put me down in any way they can because they can. Knowing that you are being HAD by the real demons on this life and what you can do to change it. For fear serves its purpose for challenges and the karmic burn out with time. Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of God and to those who are the torturers and accusers they know well enough where they belong even in this life. For the happiest people are the most evil in their moralizing ways.