Member: Sarah
Location: Kansas City
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 8:09:35 AM

Comments

OK, let's see......what's a good one that isn't mentioned often in meetings? How 'bout Prayer and Meditation and the way I prayed, if at all, while drunk as opposed to now as sober, hopefully? I'd just appreciate people sharing that most important part of their sobriety with me, is that possible?


Member: Jack F
Location: Texas
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 9:46:32 AM

Comments

i have been attending an 11th step meeting most of my 7 yrs of sobriety. i realize that since taking the steps, that pray and meditation is where i really see myself and my good and bad behavior. the second i start my prayer, i realize in my heart and in my head what part i am playing in everything that is going on in my life. awarness, that is where it happens for me, in pray and meditation, thanks.


Member: Kat
Location: Boston
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 9:47:02 AM

Comments

Hi Sarah - great topic!! I've had a connection with God for over twenty years. But prior to that I was so pissed off at him for taking away everything that I loved and leaving me all by myself to find my way in this crazy world. I've only been sober for 90 days, but even in that time I find my connection stronger than ever. I pray continually throughout the day and give EVERYTHING to Him to handle. I am so much more calm and relaxed and unafraid to face conflict. It is absolutely amazing. When I was drinking or high on weed, I was ashamed to look into the face of God and felt very disconnected. He never severed the connection, but I did with my shame and guilt. But I always crawled back to Him on my hands and knees and begged forgiveness. Today it is such a healthier relationship. Rigorous honesty allows me to look straight to Him for everything and it also allows me to look straight at myself in the mirror and smile :) Have a glorious sober day to all. With love and blessings, Kat


Member: GARY F.
Location: FLORIDA
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 11:22:59 AM

Comments

REMEMBER----AA IS A SPIRITUAL PROGRAM OF DEVELOPMENT.


Member: Thelma
Location:
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 12:10:44 PM

Comments

Gary,so true for those that have not truly grasped the true HP concept of god.AA is a spiritual move in the right direction to a religious way of living life.Have you not noticed the prayers that we practice in out meetings.No matter which way you spin the closing prayer it is still a prayer about a biblical god.The bible is what the AA program is based on and the marketing move by the founders to incorporate the phrase (a higher power of our own understanding)was simply employed to have a broader appeal to more drunks who needed help as a lot of people were not into religion and did not want to be involved in religion whatsoever.But as you can see from the prayers that are used and no doubt in later steps the HP of anyones understanding is clearly defined by the program to be GOD.However the founders knew that some did not believe in god and the HP of our own understanding was born.The thinking was clearly that if you could get them through the door and if they stayed through the first 3 steps then they could be salvaged.It is the old bait and switch mentality.And it works,it worked on me.AA is a life saver.


Member: John P.
Location: Tampa FL
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 12:12:26 PM

Comments

In my drinking days, the only time I ever talked to God was when I was in trouble. Today I thank him because there is no trouble.


Member: bob k
Location: az
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 1:09:29 PM

Comments

Hi again. I learned a bit about God as a youngster thru religion. As I got older and brought alcohol into my life, God was sort of put on the back burner, you might say. I always had a negative outlook on religion and the further into my alcoholism I got, the more this negativity became. When I got to AA, I had no god in my life. Prayer was not part of my life either. Thru going to meetings and being willing to try this AA thing, I now have a HP of my understanding. I try to keep my relationship simple with my god. A prayer in the morning to get me started and then conscious contacts when I feel the need, during the day. It seems to work for this alcoholic.


Member: Joe
Location:
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 1:27:14 PM

Comments

Excellent Thelma---right on the money-Thanks!


Member: Joe J
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 2:41:53 PM

Comments

I have always believed in some type of HP, but in my drunken days used to curse God for the situation of hopelessness I was in. In sobriety (11 months) I feel alot closer to my HP, and try to keep faith. In these 11 months, I have often had feelings of depression and hopelesness but believing in an HP helps to relieve that. I cannot lose hope, I must have faith in something, or I will go back to my self distructive ways(drinking). Sometimes my will to live is week, I need hope and faith to keep me alive. I wish they would amend the BigBook and the 12 and 12 to change words refering to God as HIM, or HE. I change it on the fly as I read. ie:Step 3 made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of a God of our undestanding... instead of as we understand him.... I'm not crazy about The Lord's Prayer at the end of meetings. OUr Father... who is to say God is a man, or a human for that matter. I've known several people to shy away from AA because of it. We should remove religion from AA and only concentrate on the spiritual. How one relates to God after a meeting is their own choosing.


Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 3:08:51 PM

Comments

HI. Bill here. Alcoholic from Arizona. I have never seen nor heard God. He presents himself to me in the sights and sounds and beauty of my surroundings. I seek through prayer and meditation to improve a contact that I made earlier in the Steps. Prayer means asking and meditation means thinking. Step 11 sets the pace. When I retire I review my day. Think through my day. I ask God's forgiveness and what corrective action is needed. On awakening I think through my day. My thought life will be placed on a higher plane. I can use my God given brain with assurance. If I become indecisive I ask for help. I close my morning meditation with a short prayer. And if I get agitated during the day, I just stop maybe say a shore prayer (As in Help!!) There are four prayers associated with Step 11. And in the 12x12 is the pray by St Francis of Assisi nee Gionanni Berardone. BTW his day in my birthday Oct 4th. I generally don't use his prayer. Too long. My God understands short prayers.. (as in HELP!!) LOL...thanks see ya, Bill


Member: SMS
Location: Tennessee
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 4:27:08 PM

Comments

I do not equate meditation with thinking. My best thinking got me into the room of AA. For me, meditation is LISTENING and being open to guidance. It is the quiet voice waiting to be heard. I need to turn off my thinking and allow my intuition and inner knowledge to turn on through meditation. Peace fellows!


Member: Dennis
Location: PA
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 4:52:46 PM

Comments

Sarah, this is an excellent topic. For me, prayer and meditation are super critical to staying sober (I have 7 months now). I had tried to get sober a couple of times before, but didn't do as much with prayer and meditation as I should. What I do now is start each day with thanking God(He's my Higher Power) for this beautiful (even if it's cloudy and rainy) day and asking Him to take over my life and my will so I can do His will. I repeat this several times each day as I notice it's a beautiful day, if something goes wrong and I have to adjust my attitude, or if something really good happens and I want to show my thankfulness. At night, I read the day's passage from "A Day At A Time" (AA publication) and the day's passage from "Meditations From The Mat", a YOGA book by Rolf Gates (a recoevering alcoholic) & Katrina Kennison. All passages don't apply , but there are many, many good ones, and some are life-changing in how they teach you to think about or react to things. After this, I repeat the morning prayer, and also ask God to remove my difficulties so that others that I may help can see God's power, will, and way of life. Using these things, I have really felt the "presence" of God many times. The first was about a week into my sobriety when I was praying hard that this time would be for good. My eyes were closed, but I "felt" a bright whiteness, and suddenly became calm in the knowledge that He had told me this was the quitting time that would last. Of course, I still have to wrok at it each day, and some days much harder than others. But I now have the confidence that it is GOd's will that I stay sober. The last time was when I attended a dear friend's funeral a few weeks ago. She had passed away only 3 weeks after being stricken with cancer. I was very upset, and really missed herintelligent, thoughtful, spiritual advise. My wife misses her very much, too, but we finaly realized it was God's will, and now we have a new guardian angel. I used to ask for "things" when I prayed, like good test scores when I was in school, help with a problem at work, and a way to stop drinking. Now I just ask to do His will. It works for me. I also take a YOGA class every few months, which really helps to calm me down and relax me, and gets me to remember that I control my own destiny and can choose to drink or not. Maybe some of this will work for you, too. I hope so. Another sober 24 to all. Life really is beautiful when seen through clear eyes.


Member: Thelma
Location:
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 8:08:14 PM

Comments

SMS,honey think about what you stated,it was your worst thinking that got you sloshed and into the rooms of AA,Now it will be your best thinking since your mind is clearing up thats gets you out of the rooms and onto a healthier new way of living life.


Member: david H
Location: Nashville
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 10:44:55 PM

Comments

david, alcoholic, I must say prayer and meditation are a must for my program. Its funny to how some people would want to come in and change the most succesfull program for alcoholics in the history of mankind. EGO (Easing God Out). I not only love the lords prayer, but the Third step Prayer is a must -twice a day- for my program. And asking God for the gift on sobriety in the morning and thanking him at night. I know this is not a religous program but in the early days I understand there was always a bible at the meetings. This was when 50% of all newcomers stayed sober. Makes you wonder. Thank you God for giving me another wonderfull day sober... As for the atheist and such, try it your way. We will still be here when you get enough.


Member: davez
Location: berkleymi
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 11:34:31 PM

Comments

Prayer is talking to God, meditation is listening to God, serenity is agreeing with God. Works for me. ><


Member: Edith M
Location:
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 12:22:34 AM

Comments


Member: Edith M
Location: Petoskey,Mi
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 12:23:16 AM

Comments


Member: I'm Touched
Location:
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 12:54:06 AM

Comments

David H.,you promise,will you still be there really?


Member: Mike H
Location: Jackson Michigan
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 2:38:52 AM

Comments

My prayers when I was drinking was "God help me get out of this one". My prayers are now "Thank you God for allowing me to live, teach me to do your will". Peace and serenity to all.


Member: MARCY K.
Location: SALINA, KS
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 2:45:05 AM

Comments

WHEN I WAS DRINKING THE ONLY PRAYING I DID WAS PLEASE GET ME OUT OF THIS MESS AND I'LL NEVER DRINK AGAIN. OR AS I WAS PRAYING TO THE PORCLAIN GODDESS. WHEN I FIRST GO SOBER MY SPONSOR TOLD ME IT WAS REAL SIMPLE. THERE IS A GOD AND YOUR NOT IT. SO I KEPT IT REAL SIMPLE AND SAID PLEASE IN THE MORNING AND THANK-YOU AT NIGHT. EVENTUALLY, I STARTED READING SOME MEDITATION BOOKS IN THE MORNING OR WHENEVER I REMEMBERED TO READ THEM. I ALSO KIND OF USED THE AA GROUP I WAS ATTENDING AS MY HIGHER POWER IN THE BEGINNING, BECAUSE IT WAS BIGGER THAN ME AND OBVIOUSLY HAD MORE KNOWLEDGE THAN ME. AS I GREW IN RECOVERY SO DID MY IDEA OF A HIGHER POWER. I'M REALLY GREATFUL THAT THERE WERE NO TIME LIMITS AND THAT NO ONE TRIED TO FORCE RELIGION ON ME OR I WOULDN'T HAVE STAYED AND I WOULDN'T HAVE 12YRS SOBER. TODAY SOME OF BY BEST MEDITATION TIME IS SPENT OUTSIDE IN NATURE OBSERVING THE BEAUTIES CREATED BY SOMETHING MUCH BIGGER THAN ME. I'M GOING TO TRY IT FOR ANOTHER 24 HRS. HOPE YOU DO THE SAME.


Member: Dan
Location: NY
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 5:26:47 AM

Comments

Going to meetings, calling fellow AA members on the phone, just talking and listening to people who sharte their experience ,strenght,and hope with me is what I call my Land-line call to God. Prayer & meditation is my cell-phone call to Him The 11 step states I should pray ONLY for knowledge of His will for me and the power to carry that out. So I keep it simple I listen to others and share when I need to Thanks for the topic Peace ODAAT


Member: AnilG
Location: MtVernon,IL
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 8:55:39 AM

Comments

Prayer & meditation works for me one of the things that I do since I have been sober is to pray daily and meditate focus to keep my self calm I look inside myself how I can improve upon me and I can remain content with my life how i can stay happy with inner myself leave all resentments hate anger out of my life and it works for me thanks to aa for giving me these tools to work with.


Member: Anne S
Location: glasgow scotland
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 9:36:28 AM

Comments

god was a scary figure in my childhood with my mother using religion as a big stick to beat me and my brother and sister.i suppose i backed off due to fear(an emotion to rule my life for 35 years)and my siblings likewise.we all went on to abusive life styles(my brother left home at 16 and i have never seen or heard of him since,my sis is a heavy narcotics user even now,and i discovered the bottle)after years of hell looking at the world thru the bottom of a glass i realized we are all worth a lot more than that and have started a life of love and recovery that is fulfilling me and my life looks and feels an awful lot better.i had to learn my mums sickness was her own and her god likewise.i prefer the term higher power and mine is loving caring and compassionate,he listens yet lets me decide how i live my day today,freedom to live and love,be right or wrong,to care or disregard and to make decisions.but just as importantly to be responsible and adult and to live and let live.my mum died a few years ago and i since found out had in fact suffered a mental illness whitch affected her reasoning.i forgave willingly and pray she did likewise.live,love and enjoy your recovery,as i keep saying,RECOVERY ROCKS!!!


Member: Monique, S
Location: Southeast, WI
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 9:53:11 AM

Comments

A prayer changed my life. I asked God 8 years ago to take the desire to drink away from me and he heard my prayer and saved me from the horrible life of addiction. I thank God now and everyday that he answers prayers. Pray, its the only way!!!!


Member: Carrie
Location: Los Angeles
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 10:10:20 AM

Comments

When I am not in tune with God, I spin out of control. I pray everyday, and ask God for help through out the day, but I also need to attend meetings atleast every other day to keep spiritually fit. Meditation and writitng are things that I haven't worked into my routine yet, but I know they will play an important part in my recovery - I just gotta start doing it! Progress....


Member: William S
Location: Ohio
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 11:33:45 AM

Comments

Prayer and meditation. Well, for me this whole thing has been about slowing down and remembering that my feelings are not facts and just because I had a thought that doesn't make it true. When I "pray" I "speak" to that Force for Greater Good in the Universe that is more powerful and compassionate that my ego. When I "meditate" I listen to it.


Member: Russ G.
Location: OH
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 4:53:47 PM

Comments

Step 11 is crucial to my spiritual well being. Each morning when I awake I humble my proud butt, get on my knees & ask God to help me. I pray the 3rd step prayer & ask Him to take away my selfishness, dishonesty, resentment & fear; just for today. Then I show up for my daily morning appointment with Him. When I make it to bedtime (made it for the past 69 months), I humble myself again back on my knees & pray, "HOT DOG!!! Thank you God for doing for me what I could never do for myself! Jesus, You are my Hero!!"


Member: saundra f
Location: n.y.
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 5:08:26 PM

Comments

This is a spiritual program not a religious program. Hello my name is Saundra F an I am Sober today THANK GOD saundra f


Member: joker
Location: not jokin
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 5:11:06 PM

Comments

people who say this is a spiritual program, not religious are either too stupid to know any better or just plain ansimple dumb dumb dummmmmmm!


Member: William
Location:
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 5:22:09 PM

Comments

Saundra,you are as wrong as wrong can be.It is ok though,as we are all wrong who view it as just spiritual and not religious.


Member: Clifford
Location:
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 5:25:38 PM

Comments

http://www.morerevealed.com/mr/chap9.htm For anyone who doubts that the program works and yes Saundra it is clearly spelled out that the program is religious based but spiritual as well.You cant have one without the other.


Member: saundra f
Location: n.y.
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 5:42:45 PM

Comments

wHAT IS sPIRITUAL


Member: saundra F
Location:
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 6:02:44 PM

Comments

We all know that there is a HIGHER POWER Right sop What is spiritual Its no chair it"s you


Member: Me
Location: Here
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 6:10:05 PM

Comments

JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONE AND ONLY GOD!!!!


Member:
Location:
Date: 9/22/2003
Time: 6:10:30 PM

Comments

you, are you dumb or what?


Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 9/23/2003
Time: 1:48:56 AM

Comments

Hi All, Kelly an alcoholic. Thanks Sarah for the topic. There is a huge difference between prayer in my religion and my prayer to my Higher Power in AA. As I read somewhere I never prayed rightly before AA. As an alcoholic I was by nature very selfish and that came out in my prayers. I wanted, I wanted and I wanted it now. In Church there are consequences for not following Gods laws. In AA if you don't follow the Steps it is your own business. They are just suggestions and all anyone will say is how they helped them in their own life. They are extremely spiritual to me because I surrendered my will over to the power and care of God, something I never did in Church. My prayers are full of (humility) today and (thanks) for what has been so freely given to me. Meditation with prayer has produced the desired psychic change I was looking for all my life. Only a psychic change could have saved me, I was so far gone. Now having had one thanks to AA and the steps I am a happy person free from the bondage of that horrible obsession. I am attending a retreat next month to learn more about the tool of meditation as we review the 12 Steps. Should be interesting. When I was new I was told to hit my knees twice a day if I wanted to stay sober. In the morning I ask god to keep me away from picking up a drink and then I read my daily reflections book. At night I hit my knees and thank God for giving me another day sober. I was skeptical at first but it works for me. If I miss a day or two I can feel the disease creeping back up. I feel irritable and discontent inside and that reminds me to get back to praying and giving over my will to God. My will does not or ever did work for me. When my mind is full of my will it is a bad place to hang around for long. Daily vigilence goes against my nature but I do this every day because it really works. If I did not see the results I would have given it up long ago like so many of the things I start and never finish. Alcoholism really is partially a soul sickness. My soul withered up and blew away in the wind at the end, it's kinda hard to be spiritual when your always drunk. I guess I'm feeding my soul now because I am happy from within for the first time in my life. 'Within' meaning not by people, places and things or alcohol filling me up. I never felt contentness like I do today. Thanks for letting me share. Kelly :)


Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 9/23/2003
Time: 1:59:20 AM

Comments

Good share Kelly. I like this description. Simple and to the point... Religous people tell you what to believe in. Spiritual people do not care what you believe in so long as you believe. Bill


Member: Real
Location: Story
Date: 9/23/2003
Time: 8:07:29 AM

Comments

That is soo stupid and exactly WHAT she was told by other NON-spiritual/religious AA idiots who can not think for themselves, so how could it possibly be that billyboy from arizona? She was TOLD that and she has NO idea obviously what is what about spiritual and religious. NOBODY is truly religious without ALSO being spiritual and you people are fools to say that crap. You only do it as a LAZY type of less-than real spirituality and use it as yat another excuse to do as little as possible-period! You UNthinking people who say that are simply spiritually LAZY, simple as that! There is NO difference for the real spiritual life.......


Member: RICHAD B
Location: Independence ks
Date: 9/23/2003
Time: 10:30:20 AM

Comments

HI TOO ALL!!!! RICHARD B AN ALCOHOLIC, COULD REALLY RELATE WITH MARCY K, YOU SEE MY GOD IS PORTABLE AND CAN TAKE HIM ANYWHERE ASLONG AS I'M WILLING TOO, AND I TAKE HIM EVERYWHERE WITH ME. HE DID'NT TURN AGAINST ME AS I DID WITH HIM I'M GLAD HE WAITED FOR ME AND TODAY I'VE GOT A GOD OF MY UNDERSTANDING. MY SOBERITY DATE IS 7/27/87 THANKS TO ALL


Member: Henry
Location: N.Y.
Date: 9/23/2003
Time: 12:59:03 PM

Comments

Hi,Henry here.I kept my God in a box.when thigs got tough i would complain how unfair my life is,meditating an asking God to bring justice to everyone who has turned their back on me.What a mess you can make of your self when you don't know how to pray.God is all good and does not deal with druckards.God and Ihave a good thing when I have a clear mind.


Member: Joe B.
Location: Charleston,W.V.
Date: 9/23/2003
Time: 5:00:14 PM

Comments

Hi gang, P&M helped save my life by slowing down my thinking and reactions. My emotions were out of control. Thankfully, its a lot better today.


Member: Wolfet
Location:
Date: 9/23/2003
Time: 7:57:41 PM

Comments

I have always believed in God since I can remember. Even in the bad times I've always called upon the Lord to keep me safe. I believe with all my heart that with all the times I've put myself in harms way, I should be dead today. Instead I'm sober and loving myself more each day, through the Grace of God! Who ever your higher power is, Don't Ever give up on Him, because He never gives up on us.


Member: Bron
Location: MA
Date: 9/23/2003
Time: 8:03:19 PM

Comments

For me, praying/begging God to remove my obsession was the only thing that worked. When I was drinking and using, I would beg for Him to Kill me or fix me. He didn't kill me and when I look at how I actually stumbled into an AA meeting (where I learned HOW to pray instead of woefully and hopelessly beg). . . I know that God was working dilligently to "fix" me, or at least show me that all was not lost. He got me into the rooms and surrounded me with people who can teach me to accept and depend on Him. People can have their silly debates over the terms "spiritual" or "religious" but really its such a joke to even be having the arguments. I just accept that talking to God, opening myself up to his answers (that so far aren't really answers, but more feelings of peace . . . and with that peace comes a patience...and eventually, the "way" or the correct action seems to open up before me, without me actually DOING things or MAKING firm and concious decisions. Never before has INACTION actually brought me results. Only in this way, through prayer and meditation,am I noticing that my issues, and emergencies and crisis seem to resolve themselves or dissipate. It doesn't matter what terminology I use, only that it works. I pray to my God and my God seems to listen. I truly hope that those of us hung up on the debates can open our minds and actually recieve this blessing as I am sure that it is available to all-if we only ask.


Member: Rinzai Huineng
Location: spiritual place
Date: 9/23/2003
Time: 8:32:03 PM

Comments

Thanksfor the very spiritualsharings that Ihave read, its like going to a real live meeting. But if you ask me my Hiher Power is actually money, see f one has money that means hat everything he or she does is attund to be functional and effective and its a success. It's like surmounting the obstaces and one ha the ability an capacity to do it. Just look a members ofthegroup whos got money how theya re most welcome by everybody and have a lot of support friends tha aything he says evrybody agees, thats because for the most par monay talk and i you work it part is the main part of Money if you dont work for it sureit wont come but if you work it then obviously it will. thats why my prayer is actually working hard to hav


Member: Rinzai Huineng
Location: spiritual place
Date: 9/23/2003
Time: 8:32:26 PM

Comments

Thanksfor the very spiritualsharings that Ihave read, its like going to a real live meeting. But if you ask me my Hiher Power is actually money, see f one has money that means hat everything he or she does is attund to be functional and effective and its a success. It's like surmounting the obstaces and one ha the ability an capacity to do it. Just look a members ofthegroup whos got money how theya re most welcome by everybody and have a lot of support friends tha aything he says evrybody agees, thats because for the most par monay talk and i you work it part is the main part of Money if you dont work for it sureit wont come but if you work it then obviously it will. thats why my prayer is actually working hard to hav


Member: andrew s
Location: norhfield mn
Date: 9/23/2003
Time: 9:44:47 PM

Comments

A.A. is a spiritual program and the ones who think it is religous does not fuly understand the difference between the two. I can sit down anytime of the day and do my meditations and prayer religion would require me to do it certain times of the day. as you can see there is a difference and therefre I believe a.a. is a spirtual program and ot religous


Member: artie s
Location:
Date: 9/23/2003
Time: 10:11:22 PM

Comments

my name is artie, and i'm an alcoholic, and all that means is that i can't safely pick up a drink. i have a simple prayer. "please show me the way. thank you." i don't meditate. instead i listen to AA speaker tapes from my collection i started 27 years ago. sets the tone for my day.


Member: it is ok
Location:
Date: 9/23/2003
Time: 10:12:36 PM

Comments

Andrew you are wrong,but it is ok if you want to be wrong.


Member: THERE IS A SOLUTION
Location: yes there is........ whoo hoo makes me glad like so many garbage bags.....
Date: 9/24/2003
Time: 12:52:45 AM

Comments

IS THIS WHERE THE DISCUSTING MEETING ... I MEAN THE DISSCUSION MEETING IS?... (enter smug look for the techs here).....smack smack...brack brack......


Member: Leaving
Location: on a jet train
Date: 9/24/2003
Time: 1:21:55 AM

Comments

Must be the same troll that's on the pot, a very sad person.


Member: IM ALIVE.......
Location:
Date: 9/24/2003
Time: 1:34:13 AM

Comments

Sweety !!!! SWEETIEE...... That's leavin on a jet plane.... you need to go and rent armegedon.... maybe that will lighten you up... sheesh! on one can have fun then>?..hello? friends?.... ps.... for someone who is so sad...i sure feel good ...in fact i feel slicker than a lizard in jerry lee louises hair....


Member: for
Location: it is ok
Date: 9/24/2003
Time: 8:40:16 AM

Comments

Yes Anrew is most clearly wrong, and yes- of course it's ok to be wrong as he obviously is. It's no big deal, but it is at least nice to see someone has some understanding that there is NO difference between true spirituality and true religion. Thanks for showing me that.......


Member: Brian B DOS 7/7/68
Location: Thailand.
Date: 9/24/2003
Time: 9:46:19 AM

Comments

I don't pray, there is nothing out there to pray to. I have a non interventionalist higher power, a secular faith based on humanism. However, I don't hesitate to meditate. To develop my own self awareness - To appreciate that which is beautiful, that which is compassion, love, and above all, peace, tranquility and serenity. This is spirituality. Religion in any shape or form is an inhibitor to spirituality, not part of it. To unthinkingly take on board myths, legends and impossible fairy stories, (heaven, hell and reincarnation?) stunts spiritual awareness. It's now, on this earth, part of today, around us, this is spirituality. To go once a week, to some 'whited sepulchre' just to show how 'good' we are, then commit mayhem throughout the week, cheating, lying, self- agrandisement, power broking, is the worst form of hypocrisy: but, it's OK, we did penance, acquired credits, did confession, so all is fine, isn't it? Don't pick up the first drink, then you won't get drunk - oh, and meditate.


Member: Sharon Frey
Location: Warm, sunny, Portland, Oregon
Date: 9/24/2003
Time: 11:23:14 AM

Comments

(((Brian)) you know I disagree with your beliefs but I will defend you to the last breath that I have. I pray yes, to MY God, the one I found in AA not the one my Dad the preacher had. I'm more with Sanders and a few others but this program taught me to see the loving God in this world and to open my eyes and ears and be WILLING to listen to others, and to think for myself. Prayers used to be a "Christmas list". I want, please give and thanks I guess. Today I have a loving God and I ask for HIS/Her will im my life as I found that I'm not the one who "walked on water". I just got drunk. Today the compulsion to drink has been removed, been in the AA program for a few years, and I carry on a running conversation with MY God and I do take time to meditate and find which side of the street is mine and then get busy and clean that side only. AA says a God of YOUR understanding, and there is room for all. Troll, I'll keep praying for you and hope and pray that someday you will change your attitude. Enough from this preacher's kid. Starting to sermonize..time to hush Love and prayers to all for YOUR God's will in YOUR life. Sharon


Member: Charlie Darling
Location: Key West Fl
Date: 9/24/2003
Time: 12:01:08 PM

Comments

Hi family gret to be here with all of you today, and have read some great stuff. If you don't have a HP find something such as GOD a GROUP OF DRUNKS. I go to an attitude adjustment every morning it is a 45 min meeting, and we read the 3,7 and 11 step prayers, and I try to incorprate each one in my life daily. Yes it is a spiritual program, and right now I have been doing alot of praying, and asking my HP to help me get through all this stuff without picking up that drink, and thanks to all just for today I don't have to have a drink. My ceiling in the kitch has a big hole where the person fixing it does not know what he is doing, and they can't find the electric for the ceiling fan. No I don't think this is the house that Jack built, but pretty close. I shared about all the stuff that is going on at my house, and it helped this morning, and yes pray helps, and it does work when I ask for help, and get out of my own way, the answer comes, it may not be what i hoped for but I get the answewr. Today I am grateful for all that life as given me ever since I put the plug in the jug, and for that I am eternally grateful. I just had to sound off as I don't wish to get down as I know where I will end up. Have been on the phone all morning, and that helps just talking to other Alcholics who understand the crazies, that we used to drink over. Thank you all for being here for us. Peace and Love, Charlie Darling kwduke_1999@yahoo.com


Member: Kim D.
Location: Bridgewater
Date: 9/24/2003
Time: 12:46:30 PM

Comments

Kim here - alcoholic. Sarah that's an easy one - while drinking my prayers were of the same essence: "Good Lord, help me out of this jam and I'll turn my life around, I promise." Sober, my prayers vary, include others but always ask for "God's Will to be done in my life and the humility and acceptance to be able to identify and carry it (His will) out."


Member: Jim M.
Location: Texas
Date: 9/24/2003
Time: 3:47:51 PM

Comments

It is sad to see people fighting over spirituality and religion. Each recovering alcoholic has the right to develop his/her own form of spiritual enlightment that works. No one should be critical of that nor should anyone impose their form on others. Some of the teachings in the Big Book go back as far as Buddha who lived 500 years before Christ. Others can be found in all religion and others are just good sense. Why argue and criticize. Just do good, feel compassion and do not resent others for their path to serenity and peace of mind. Jim M.


Member: RICHARD M
Location: SARASOTA, FLORIDA
Date: 9/24/2003
Time: 4:05:47 PM

Comments

hello my name is richard m, i am an alcoholic........today is 6479 days of contiguous abcense from alcohol.......since i began dec 28, 1985. yeah god .he provides the grace each day ........and what a life i have led.always real and exciteing............love , peace and happiness is the key............ AS THE SAYING GOES "KNOW GOD , KNOW HAPPINESS".......NO GOD ........NO HAPPINESS...WHERE DO YOU FIT ? .PLEASE DO NOT GO BACK TO DRINKING..YOU ARE WORTH AND GOD DOES LOVE YOU ~~~~~~~~~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Member: Ron F.
Location: Tucson,Az
Date: 9/24/2003
Time: 4:33:19 PM

Comments

I believe A.A.was based on many sources including psychology and relgion as Bill W. says himself in A.A. literature.God was changed to Higher Power not only to retain athetiests and agnostics, but those of other faiths.Christianity is far from being the largest religion in this world. Should we deny Buddists,Islamics, and Hindus? We are active in many countries.I also feel that deep understanding of a Universal Power --whatever it is ,is far past the ability of any human mind to comprehend.I think for A.A. to work we do need a higher power But that term can work well for all of us.Spirituality is a feeling from an unknown outside source.Religions of which there are many were created by humans and differ. I hope each of you finds your own higher power you can name as you wish, and it will work as well as many others have.


Member: Its true
Location:
Date: 9/24/2003
Time: 5:30:29 PM

Comments

Ron F.,AA is mainly based on the desires and thoughts of raving control freaks,like Frank B.,Bill W.,Dr. Bob.You cannot have religion without spirituality.You should read the above link posted by Clifford,it will tell you what you need to know about AA.


Member: Leia
Location: North Georgia
Date: 9/24/2003
Time: 8:43:31 PM

Comments

The topic I believe is about the change in my method of prayer. When I was drinking I use to pray those fox whole prayers."God get me out of this one and I will nevern do this again". LOL; But today I thank my Higher Power for everything I had to go through to get to where I am today. I have a concious contact with my Higher Power. I trust that whatever comes down the pike is meant to be. Everything in life is a lesson or a blessing and in the end they are all belssings. Sometimes when I am going through shit and I think it is awful, it turns out to be the best thing for me. My Higher Power has a sense of humor. LOL. There is a simple yet profound question that really helps me "How important is it?" Right out of the Big Book. You know life is not free of problems but it is okay. I can be happy and find some joy in each and every day no matter how bad it may seem. Life is a journey and we all have our own perception of the path our lives follow, be it joy or pain. As for me, I choose joy, and faith in my Higher Power makes that possible "One day at a time".


Member: Clifford
Location:
Date: 9/24/2003
Time: 8:50:17 PM

Comments

Leia,this is right out of the big book too.Check it out.http://www.morerevealed.com/mr/chap9.htm


Member: ABW
Location: UTOPIA
Date: 9/24/2003
Time: 11:44:01 PM

Comments

HI I AM ABW A GREATFUL ALCOHOLIC?ADDICT. I THOUGHT A BIT TODAY OUT OF MY RECOVERY>>>HECK I EVEN ALL MYSELF SOME BREAKS DURING THE DAY> DAD WAS A BANKER < ME NO. GROWING UP IN THE LIFE I HAD WITH MOM AND DAD, DAD GAVE ME A BOOK ON MEDITATION ABOUT TEN. I LIKE PRAY AND GROW RICH. MY TRIP WAS TO MEDITATE AND I DO RITUAL MAIC........HAVE A GOOD DAY.


Member: AMY C
Location: OAK FOREST IL
Date: 9/25/2003
Time: 3:13:16 AM

Comments

hi, amy , alcoholic, thanks everyone for your comments. For me, AA is and always will be a spiritual progam. As for religion, believe in what you want as long as you BELIEVE. I know today that God (or whoever or whatever we believe in) is doing for me what I cannot do for myself. DOS 10/28/01.


Member: Bill L.
Location:
Date: 9/25/2003
Time: 8:25:26 AM

Comments

Amy,it is ok to be wrong and you are.


Member: Daniel
Location: Chicago
Date: 9/25/2003
Time: 10:08:21 AM

Comments

I hope we can all find a power that will work in our lives.A power that will enable us to find freedom,health,and the stregth to live productive lives.Sometimes when I here people at meetings being argumentitive/imposing there beliefs on others I can't help but think maybe they need a little more pain.Believe me I understand having a bad day. When I see others willing to spend time on line wating to find people to oppose I think get a life.Get a job,go to school,talk to a newcomer,a sponser, whatever.Today I work hard at getting along with others.It's not my job to point out faults in people I run across.My job is to be a good example in the way that I live.


Member: Susan A.
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
Date: 9/25/2003
Time: 11:35:50 AM

Comments

Hi All, I'm Susan and I'm an Alcoholic. Great topic. My 'prayers' used to be of the selfish 'get me through this one' variety - 'Oh, look, I'm knee-deep in hand grenade pins again, I guess I'd better ask God to get me out of this'. Today, I seek out a spritual connection all day, and pray to know what it is that my God wants me to do, and then to be given the willingness and power to do it. I check it out with others, and I get into action. God's given me peace, and a desire to be of help to others, for which I'm very grateful. This is not tied into an organized religion or anyone else's beliefs of 'right' and 'wrong', and there's a straight, close connection between my God and me. I say 'God' because that's a word I was brought up with, though my God is SO MUCH MORE that what I was taught. If I'd been brought up Swahili, I'd have a different word for my spiritual connection. IT DOESN'T MATTER, FOLKS. My opinion: Choose a warm and loving connection of your own, for YOU, and drop the rest of the BS and old ideas that are keeping you in turmoil. This is about recovery, and isn't a game. --It is interesting to me that the only people here showing their intolerance of others ("you're wrong, you believe wrong, you think wrong, you're 'god' is wrong, etc.") are those who claim institutionalized religion or intelectual superiority are the ONLY way to go.-- I love the spiritual program of AA, where 'the desire to stop drinking' is the only requirement for membership. The acceptance I got of ME -as I was at the time- was a real lifesaver, and the first time ever in my life I'd felt that I wasn't being judged as wrong for something. Please, Bill L, Clifford, 'Its True', no name, etc, practice tolerance and stop being so negatively critical of others. Thank you, Ron, Amy, Jim, etc, for passing the message. Love to you all.


Member: JIM G.
Location: Okla.
Date: 9/25/2003
Time: 1:07:31 PM

Comments

It is this alcoholics opinion that we are born of the spirit of God so spirituality is god given. Religion is designed by and created by earthlings so I disagree that the AA program is "Spiritual, therefore it is also religious". Jim G.


Member: Joey
Location:
Date: 9/25/2003
Time: 5:22:32 PM

Comments

Jim G.,you are right on the mark there my friend.Just another denomination of believers,that is all AA is.


Member: Rinzai Huneng
Location: Spiritual Place
Date: 9/25/2003
Time: 7:01:00 PM

Comments

Hi everybody I just read what have posted and its hardly comprehensible by those clerical errors. I guess the bottomline of what I was saying is that phrase we always say at the end of the meeting, "It works , If you work It!" And If you work hard for it then money comes to you for being sucessful and hard working, like the Protestant Work Ethics. My HP is actually Money, if you see at the back of our money bill there is an Almighty Power on the top of the pyramid, a triangle with the "eye", which incidentally we AA also uses as our logo. I believe that this figure was first conceived by the Free Masons who most of our Presidents before were, thanks goodness essentially atheist. I kinda go in that line of thinking but what I could see is what I could believe and that sure is Money and its values in acquiring it: productivity and blessings from being "good". When one has money people are drawn to you and agrees with you, one has power and social influence, a circle of successful friends, a very good living condition, respected by the community. Relationships are smooth and one could afford to be charitable for good causes and be hailed for it; it is of course exactly a different story if one has got no money and is in poverty. Of course like most of us walking through the doors of AA we were broke but when we got sober we work for it and now that we are on our feet again, it is actually money that made it possible for us to be accepted and aford to raise a family let them go to school, etc. If some fellow AA's would diagree with me I advise them to do a little expeiment and give all their money to the poor and observe how peple treatments on you changes in regards to your wealth and money. Perhaps you say that this is not a spiritual way, what more spiritual can you get when you follow Jesus Christ admonition to give everything to the poor and follow him? In that way one could know how much money really means if it is not the real Higher Power of this world. When one has money of course there are times when one is sad, and have all these human feelings but to compare if one has no money there you will get the picture of who the real Higher Power is. I know I don't ahve th masculing gender God as our steps suggests, God as you conceive Him to be, my God is an It, I hope this is acceptable to the masculine gender God guys. thanks for letting me share.


Member: Bonny G
Location: Hot Springs, AR
Date: 9/25/2003
Time: 7:10:55 PM

Comments

Hi all, Bonny, grateful recoverying alcoholic. I just got back online and my first thought was to visit this site again. It's just like the rooms of AA! Thanks Sarah for wanting to know HOW we prayed before getting sober as to now. I did as I saw mentioned earlier, fox-hole prayers and today they are "Thank You" prayers. I don't personally believe that anyone corners the market on the best way to pray, I just like knowing that God hears my prayers from the kitchen sink as well as He hears them from the bedside. God Bless you all and keep you sober another day. It's so good to know that no matter where we are, AA is still working!


Member: bill t
Location:
Date: 9/25/2003
Time: 7:18:02 PM

Comments

the figure of the eye over the pyramid was an illuminatey symbol for enlightenment and they were one of the first antireligious groups. they believe all can be proved throuh science and that there is no higher power look beyond the political figures they were the first satanist


Member: Becca
Location:
Date: 9/25/2003
Time: 7:31:16 PM

Comments

Bonny you know full well that prayer by the bedside is essential for the aa program,it is ok to pray at the kitchen sink but only if you do not stray from the teachings of our AA Doctrine.Please Bonny do not stray.Bedside prayer in the evenings is a must.


Member: Johnny S.
Location: Bronx, NY
Date: 9/25/2003
Time: 7:33:01 PM

Comments

I believe God doe'snt care what name you call Him or what religion or nonreligion you follow;only in how you treat yourself and others. He's interested in how we'r doing in the reality of now. We can only experience God in the "now". What keeps us from the "now", is our "E.G.O.", the mother of all fear's.


Member: huh
Location:
Date: 9/25/2003
Time: 7:39:02 PM

Comments

what johnny


Member: Pat T
Location: FL
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 3:27:56 AM

Comments

I only have one thing to say about whether this is a spiritual or religious program or not, DOES NOT MATTER!!! Does it work for you? If not, oh well, keep your "stabs" for another cause. OK? I am not a terribly religious person, but I believe in god. I think that each individuals outcome in life is entirely a decision that THEY make. Some need GOD with that step, Some just need to make the STEP! Take Care, That's all/ Thank you ALL!


Member: Debbie W
Location: Federal Way, WA.
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 3:49:41 AM

Comments

Hi, Im Debbie,Alocholic. I have always beleived in God. I was one of the lucky one's that didn't get a dui,or hit someone or something. I have always beleived that God was looking out for me. In all my days of drinking and driving ,I have no idea how I never got caught. Point is this drunk for whatever reason stopped drinking almost 2 years ago. I found AA and it is the BEST thing in my life. Spirtiual or religous, I pray twice daily on my knees at my bed and whenever I need to during the day. I feel blessed and grateful to have found AA and God, or God and AA.Believe in yourself and it dosen't matter.. If it work's for you... Debbie DOS 10-7-01


Member: Pat
Location: FL
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 4:31:57 AM

Comments

Hey Ron F!! Just want to thank you for saying what I couldn't, or just maybe for what didn't come out as clear as they way you could explain. Each individual may have a "higher power" but what I think it all boils down to is that you only have to believe in yourself. It's all up to you -- Your life and choices. If you screw up, it's NOT anyones fault but yours. AND not to to CRITICAL or JUDGEMENTAL, BUT for all of those that think it was all the belief and praying to "God" that got them this far..... Do you blame HIM if YOU screw up and fall back?!!! THEN What? Believe in YOURSELF!!! Wish everyone ALL the best. PT / FL


Member: Anne S
Location: glasgow scotland
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 6:51:16 AM

Comments

greetings from bonnie scotland all.as i said before i am grateful for aa in my life and i prefer the term higher power but agree totally with johnny s. does it really matter what name we give to whatever we believe in.charlie loved your god..group of drunks anology.works for this alcoholic.jim g,hit it right on the head tho,its spiitual not religious,if we are spiritually well it help us to have love and compassion for other people no matter what.thanks to all of you and my hp for helping me stay sober another day.recovery rocks!!!


Member: Gerald L.
Location: Los Angeles Ca
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 8:12:53 AM

Comments

Good for you Susan A.Its always good to hear someone with a mature grow-up "AA" message. There is a lot of good "AA" here. My opinion is to ignore the non "AA" atuff and enjoy a good meeting. DOS 3-2-82.


Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 8:22:37 AM

Comments

Hi ((Bonnie)), Thanks for your upbeat message. Keep sharing! ((Johnney NY)) Loved your quote! "Words of wisdom Lloyd, words of wisdom". Makes me wonder what is the sum of all our fears? Fear itself? Your all God to me, a group of drunks looking for some good orderly direction. God Bless. Kelly :)


Member: Rinzai Huineng
Location: Ivory Tower
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 10:32:58 AM

Comments

Hi Family, I got a new nick name which you can call me- Troll, I'm alcoholic. Yes, Step 11. I was raised Catholic and a very devout one should I say, especially when I started getting sober. I was poor and as the saying goes, "In poverty faith is as good as fortune". Even when I was already 5 to 6 years sober I had 5 novenas and recite the rosary every day. I think that it was due to the fact I had some alcoholic personality problems that I have brain damage and some insanities like depression that I couldnt function normally with people so I was in poverty most of the time and in these times I was fervent in seeking help from God. By the time I also was introduced to eastern meditation that at first my mind had a hard time keeping it still but as the years past I was getting better in doing it. I was also an outdoor person that sometimes I would climb mountains alone and camp at the summit to have a quite time with God. One time in Elysee Park at the Rockies in Colorado, I nearly burned the forest because the fire got out of hand, but due to my incessant call for my Higher Power to help me stop the fire, miraculously it did stop with only one gallon of water that I have, (the ground was about 3 inches of dried bark and foliage thats why the fire quickly spread. But in my 13 years of sobriety now I have concluded that the more spiritual one gets, the more isolated, misunderstood and the more one finds the world as a very unspiritual world to be. So as St, John of the Cross says in his' "Dark Night Of the Soul" and St. Teresa of Avila's, "Celestial Palace" one becomes more and more drawn to that Ivory tower and easily falls to selfish indulgences like thinking oneself to be better than others, etc. I was caught in a double bind, not exactly Shakespeare's, "To be, or not to be", which is the choice of committing suicide or not, but the bind of spirituality versus reality. And I had gone deep into my spirituality that I was devoid of human affections or would shun away from it because of the reality that human relationships are actually primarily based on money values, believe me I've been to 3rd World Country poverty situations. But it's a wonder with human nature to be moralistic when the subjectivity is focused to be moralistic, you know what I mean? Like for instance with people going to churches for example people are too happy and satisfied to hear about God's love and brotherly love for each other etc., while for the most part because of this moralism Religion and its Institutions were the prime motivations for major wars in past and present. But of course not all of us could think and realize that Reality because that goodness is the only one that supports our sense of identity, say for example us, Christians with its moral values. Thats why its very hard to comprehend why its morality has been the cause for indifferences and bloodywars, for from religion stems its political differences. I know people from AA would say, "well thats why we have a God of our own conception", but the truth is always more than the surface when you see that as Bill W. had written down about his spiritual religious experience of that 'Glowing Light', the format of the Steps is really of the Protestnt Christian type when even until the 4th edition of the Big Book God is still referred to as a He and that means a whole lot, to a point of hypocrisy. And the main thing Im pointing out is that because we AA's have been so sold out to our gratefulness of AA's principles in saving our lives and giving as new ones we become blinded by some facts which makes us hypocrites and fanatical, ready to defend our true faith by fighting back or judging others that they are lesser in our standards of happiness and sobriety when they are sharing diffeent views from our own. But that's also okay, "whatever works" is the same as saying "the ends justify the means". For me the more suffering I find in life (and believe me I hate suffering and seek happiness), the more motivated I am to seek solace in spirituality and in the Spiritual World I discovered, everything is exactly opposite to the Real World. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Trollslave
Location: also in an Ivory Tower
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 11:09:42 AM

Comments

Wow Rinzai}}} You have just made my day with enlightening and insightful comments into the human condition. Not only do I share those very same views, and hence similar values, I too am called "troll," LOL-- Funny how they call evil good and good evil the real world of which AA is but a very minute element of, huh? It is always refreshing when I see someone has truly seen things as they really are and has the humility to speak the truth in both humbly and in love. Thank you kind person, thank you........


Member: aa
Location: ss
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 11:19:35 AM

Comments

Hey Rinzai))) Ever heard of the Illuminati?


Member: sue e
Location: ct
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 11:43:58 AM

Comments

hi everybody,i'm sue, i'm an alcoholic.it's my first time here@ staying cyber.i'm back in aa after 5years of"don't drink and come to meetings",after hoping to "get it by osmosis" i stopped coming,i never worked the steps, andi got drunk after 12 years without a drink.that was 8 months ago,and now i truely believe that working the steps,which have shown me how to have a relationship with my higher power thru prayer and meditation really is the easier, softer way.when i began to let go of self will and learned to trust in God,only then did He do for me what i couldn't do for myself.


Member: Susan
Location:
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 12:53:13 PM

Comments

Right on Renzai,it is the truth and we all know it but we turn the other way for the sake of the program.


Member: Johnson
Location: Colorado
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 4:07:05 PM

Comments

Except the part about the referencing of "He," that's fairly enlightened there Rinzai. Why the vehemence toward the simple semantic of a clear reference to The Almighty, it makes no sense whatsoever, unless you're a woman with a chip on your shoulder. Are you just that? Either way, it's irrelevant as Jesus was clearly a male and hence a He, there's nothing to argue about if you're a Christian, it's as simple as that. As part of the Trinity He is also a refence to the Father---NOT mother---and at times and in certain contexts the whole of mankind----NOT womankind. In those cases it's nothing more than a semantic reference and if you get that bent out of shape over such an UNimportant matter as that when you are not only in the wrong, but your spiritual life needs some serious work and you belong in an ivory tower away from others. Roman Catholics do NOT use inclusive language, so you mean you left the Church of Jesus Himself over that? You've got to be kidding me, right?


Member: Give the catholic crap a rest
Location:
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 4:24:30 PM

Comments

He left because the wine flows,yep real alcohol,not blood but the real deal.


Member: just for
Location: you
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 4:41:30 PM

Comments

So it's ok to Catholic spirituality crap, but not any other, huh? Anyone telling me to give it a rest will only make me shout it from the rooftops as it is The Truth. Besides, people like you who are as you just displayed ignorant, need to be taught the Truth as it is His Precious Blood, not alcohol, whether you or others who are ignorant believe so or not. Can anyone possibly be closer to God than to drink of His Precious Blood daily? I seriously doubt it........


Member:
Location:
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 4:44:52 PM

Comments

that's ok to bash Catholic spirituality?


Member:
Location:
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 4:45:13 PM

Comments

that's ok to bash Catholic spirituality?


Member: Joe B.
Location: Roswell, GA
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 5:24:17 PM

Comments

Phew! Y'all keep coming back! Here's a small tip that's helped me tremendously with my prayer. When "the committee" in my head gets too busy to allow me to say my prayers to myself, irrespective of where I am (hopefully on my knees) I say my prayers aloud. It helps me focus on my Higher Power and bring some quiet to "the committee" in my head. It doesn't need to be loud, just barely audible but spoken seems to do it. Also, I love the comment way up above that prayer is talking to your Higher Power, meditation is listening. Very excellent. This is my first post. I'm sure I'll be back. Thanks for being here and letting me share.


Member: JUST FOR Y0OU RIGHT BACK AT YOU
Location:
Date: 9/26/2003
Time: 6:10:36 PM

Comments

Just for you,it is not blood let alone precious blood.Check with the church secretary who handles paying the bills and somewhere there will be a file with receipts in it from the liqour store or liquor wholesaler for the purchase of the wine.It does not matter,no way no how can wine be blood no matter who does the whodoo on it and blesses it.It is strictly a ritual for the followers of catholic faith.If I go buy a case of wine and get some priest to bless it then I would have a case of HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD.Dude that crap is so far out there,no way no how is there any blood left from that long ago and if there was even an inkling of HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD the scientist would go JARASSIC over it.Now if you are indeed in AA YOU ARE NOW A WILSONITE.We are not religious only spiritual.AGAIN US AA ERS ARE WILSONITES.


Member: BABE (eye spy) with my little eye..another fricken spy!... gee wiz and i was just gettin over my paraniod problem....bummer
Location: Thanx for the joke: made me laugh like so many hyena's....
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 2:06:21 AM

Comments

Hey kiddies.... how's the struggle and fight club doing?..ha ha.. ((well, i got problems.. care to hear about them?...right..forget it then.. my opinions? NO?.. but they're so important! are you sure?... okay... maybe i'll try and say something extra specially smart then..blink blink, bat, bat, bat. orshould i share some genuine wellness...howd that be?... right. here goes.. i pledge to try not to "bash aa, catholisism, fagism".. ((ha ha... i crack my self up)).... what else is there?..lesbianism... trollism' alcoholism?...hahahahaha.... oh man i wish i had some friends and something to do on a friday night, but nope, guess i must be a real creep or something.. oh well i can always get out my trusty pen and make my gratitude list... that should make me feel 100% in a hurry.. lets see i haven shit myself today... i havnt started evil on the pot.. i havnt made any sexual advances on the men (not the women, sorry not into lesbianism' i was born heterosexual, yes i was just born that way..sue me!)) hmm maybe i shoud think of others and be a do gooder for a bit. that should earn me some brownies with the big guy in the sky...hey and thanx for all the jokes and wonderful shares.... bye now.


Member: Jenny W.
Location: SW, MO
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 2:25:23 AM

Comments

Religion is a very controversial issue in society today. that is extremely apparent by some of the postings that i've read. but some of you have forgotten that the idea behind AA is to find a power greater than yourselves could restore you to sanity. that power is discovered individually, by you, in private. AA does not say that you have to have the same religious beliefs to belong to AA OR TO GET SOBER. If you want to argue the faults of one belief system compared to another try addressing these arguments to a theology discussion rather than trying to create divisions within AA.


Member: (viewpoint)
Location:
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 2:33:45 AM

Comments

.... A.A. is not allied with any sect denomination,politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Just a little reminder that those who are posting here with no regard for our preamble have no idea what its all about. And those of us who have an idea what its about, wouldent waste our time to reply


Member: Wilsonite........
Location: cast away......
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 2:49:07 AM

Comments

what's that you say wilson... i know, i know, i hope everyone stays sober and is blessed by god with good things too. yes yes i know they are probably doing the best they can with what they have. Yes wilson; i like them too....pardon me?.. you think everyone here is pretty awesome?.. me to wilson.. now go to sleep you crazy cook of a volley ball or something.... nighty night wilsonites.


Member: just for you
Location: back at cha
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 8:33:30 AM

Comments

Using that illogical logic, then Jesus didn't actually turn the water into wine either and it was just water and hence you could drink it endlessly and not get drunk, right back at ya? Again, it makes no difference what you believe, that doesn't change the facts. Besides, even if it weren't, who would you be to say someone can't believe the Truth, pray tell?


Member: the real
Location: deal
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 8:34:16 AM

Comments

Warring with Christianity David Limbaugh (archive) September 27, 2003 | Print | Send When I was on "Hannity and Colmes" Monday night promoting my book, "Persecution," Alan Colmes took me to task for its subtitle: "How Liberals Are Waging War Against Christianity." "Are you saying liberals can't be Christians?" he asked. I want to expand on my comments. I am not saying that liberals can't be Christians, nor is the purpose of my book to demonize liberals. In the book I document in painstaking detail with abundant evidence how secularists and strict separationists work at cross purposes with Christianity and Christian religious liberty. And it is undeniable that secularists and strict separationists are, by and large, political liberals. Does that mean that liberals cannot be Christians? Of course not. I have many liberal friends who are Christians. But it does mean that political liberalism, in my view, is at war with Christianity in the sense I describe in my book. Why Christians would want to participate in that war is beyond me, but it is not my place to challenge the authenticity of anyone's profession of Christianity, irrespective of their political ideology. But before leaving this particular point, I should call your attention to a column I read last week in the Religion Section of the Los Angeles Times by John H. Bunzel, a former member of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights and presently at the Hoover Institution. My friend Alan Colmes might want to check out this article, because Mr. Bunzel said, "Millions of Americans do not believe in God. They do not invest moral authority in a transcendent source such as the Bible, or deal in absolutes of right and wrong, or divide the world into simplistic categories of good and evil. Such people, and I include myself among them, have tended to find themselves more comfortable in the Democratic Party than in the Republican Party, where a marked strain of Christian fundamentalism runs strong." Indeed, most liberals I know support the extreme separationist principle. They seem to believe that there should be no mixture whatsoever of church and government, and even that Christians ought not to be so public with their faith. They are constantly berating conservative Christian politicians for openly professing their faith. Generally speaking, political liberals also often support values that I believe are incompatible with the Judeo-Christian ethic. Their intense commitment to the separationist idea has the effect of suppressing Christian religious freedom. The secularists or separationists (and you liberals know whether the shoe fits here), maintain that they advocate strict separation between church and state first because the Framers designed our system that way, and second because it promotes our liberties. They are demonstrably wrong on both counts. The Framers did not craft a constitutional system separating church and state. They prohibited Congress from establishing a national church, such as the Church of England. They clearly did not forbid the government from all involvement with religion and particularly the Christian religion. On the very next day after the first Congress passed the First Amendment they set aside a national day of prayer and Thanksgiving. Is it not safe for us to infer from those juxtaposed actions that they did not subscribe to the strict separationist principle? There are scores of other examples detailed in my book. The predominantly liberal separationists are equally wrong in asserting that the separationist principle -- to the extent they would strictly apply it -- promotes religious liberty. For in case after case, their expansive and dishonest reading of the Establishment Clause to enforce a strict separation has the effect of suppressing religious liberties. When school administrators tell little 5-year-old Kayla that she can't join hands with her classmates to thank Jesus over their snacks, they are not protecting us from religious tyranny by preventing the establishment of a state church; they are suppressing religious liberties. When they tell a high school gospel choir that it cannot sing at a church memorial event to honor the victims of 9-11, they are not safeguarding our religious liberties but smothering them. If our self-professed separationists are truly motivated by the separationist principle, why don't they object when the government endorses values that are hostile to Christianity? Could it be their true motivation is a bias against Christian values? So you liberals out there who say you champion religious freedom, please get a copy of my book and find out just how wrong you are. And those of you who are Christians, we'll graciously welcome you anytime to the "right" political side.


Member: Rick H.
Location: Cypress,Texas
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 9:26:56 AM

Comments

Hi Family,I am an alcoholic,my name and problem is Rick I glad the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.I'm greatful that people I met in early recovery actually read the "BIG BOOK" and let me choose a GOD of my understanding. Prayer & Meditation is a gift I get to enjoy anytime I want.My HP is concerned with me when whenever I seek HIM,in whatever channel I allow HIM to use me to do HIS will.I have FAITH today only through my daily spiritual maintenance.Through daily Prayer & Meditation I am able to see GODS WILL FOR ME IS TO BE HAPPY,JOYOUS AND FREE.My will for me is to destroy my life with ALCOHOL.Sure am glad Iwas able to make a decision to turn my life and will over to HIS care again today!!! LOVE & TOLERENCE IS OUR CODE Thanks for letting me share


Member: JUST FOR YOU
Location: RIGFHT BACK AT YOU
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 9:55:56 AM

Comments

Well if one believes the jesus concept then one has to believe that he changed water to wine,but where does it say that any actual earthling (one not having a mother for a virgin}has the power to convert wine to blood,hell if thats the case why cant the annointed ones just use tap water and perform the transition right in front of the congregation,I will tell you why, it is not possible for that to happen.So the old fable tale of being blessed to do so cause the elders said so comes into play.Why cant these same annointed ones bless the other anonointed ones to leave the children alone.Because that is just that (crapola).Now I know that this one will be a big shock for you,but MARY WAS NOT A VIRGIN,YEP THATS RIGHT SHE WAS GIVING IT UP JUST LIKE SO MANY WOMEN GIVE IT UP TODAY OUT OF WEDLOCK,THAT JOSEPH WAS A FORGIVING FELLOW,BUT YOU KNOW HE HAD TO BE ASHAMED SOMEWHAT,NOTHING HAS CHANGED EXCEPT WOMEN HAVE RIGHTS NOW AND THAT IS A GOOD THING.


Member: Rnzai Huineng
Location: existence
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 12:27:00 PM

Comments

Thank you for letting me express some of my deepest hearfelt convictions and experiences regarding my spirituality and the support you gave for it; however, there are two points I'd like to clarify from the reactions of the group in regards to my views: First, I am in no way contradicting the traditions about, "AA is not allied with any sect, denomination, policy, or institution, does not wish to engage in any controversy neither endorses nor opposes any causes" (I hope I got that right). I was not against religion in any form of it nor the semantics of the use of the masculine gender for humanity and God. What I was primarily concern about is "Cultism", the sense of "we" to the point of blind fanaticism, the very reason why from the beginning Christians were engaged with major Bloody Wars in the World for the Church was advocating it all the while to the people that they are the good guys therefore, they must fight evil, even though as Christians they are followers of Jesus Christ's commandments: "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, give bread to them that hate you, etc., etc. ..This is a perfect example of how humanity works by following ideals that are exactly the opposite of their actions in reality, as is Hypocrisy is really the Reality of things. It is so outrageously absurd but it is still a wonder why nobody ever thought of it. And we as AA's are not immune to this "Cultism" phenomena of our human side, because we could only survive in herds and most of the singled out revolutionaries and prophets including Jesus Christ, Socrates and Galileo were silenced and put to death by their societies because they disturbed the equilibrium of their respective Cults or Culture. The point that I'm driving here is that we AA's tend to believe in a certain way which is not very tolerant with other's point of view, like I see them very self-righteous AA's in some form of hierarchy in group politics and talking down to people because they are"more sober" more "moral" more "working the steps", etc. But when you point out the fact that Bill Wilson had written in the Grapevine Magazine (Emotional Sobriety) that he had great bouts of severe depression for 10 years after being sober and stated that even the Steps would not work for it, perhaps the Big Book is a little bit suspect for it was only 3 years that Bill Wilson and the group had started that it was first published and they already figure it all out in that Book everything like for instance the Promises, A Vision For You, Working With Others, etc.,So if Bill W. had a "good quality" time in his sobriety to have written down the Holy Grail of Sobriety which members are proud of to be heirs, why then was he actually in great pain in depression before and after years the Big Book had been written? See, but because we as members of the herd have been sustained and survive by the very goals and principles of the herd we could not conceived of its painful reality rather we tend to be defensive and would actually reason out alibis which are unreasonable just to prove that it actually works so that means that it's the truth despite the facts. The point is how can one be in great depression and still write about the 11 Promises, A Vision For You, etc. when you are not still experiencing it or you still don't have it? It makes the whole thing ridiculous and hypocritical but I know for the most of us we dont even have the capacity to comprehend simple facts like this because for the most part we just wanted to fit in and not question things so that we would not disturb the peace and function normally with others. The choice is ours, "to be happy and functional but wrong, or to be right but be miserable?" 'Whatever works' is 'The ends justifies the means', and Robert Frost's, "The Road Less Taken" and Thoreau's "Walden Pond" are romantic and very American alright but again they are spiritual goals which binds us but our actions are exactly the opposite of it. That's how the eastern concept of the Yin Yang works, in fact thats how the Universe works and this is my second point. Thank you very much. Peace and War is one reality in existence.


Member: Renzai supporter
Location:
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 12:49:56 PM

Comments

Renzai,well said and all so true,here is a link that breaks it down to where even the simplest of minds can comprehend it.http://www.aadeprogramming.com/index_frames.html When the page comes up,look on the left side of the page and click THINK,THINK,THINK and your whole world of AA will be revealed.Remember Bill W. said that more would be revealed and here it is.Tell us more Renzai,you make for good reading.


Member: Brice
Location: from the confessional
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 2:35:54 PM

Comments

Hello and good morning. thanx for that interesting info....I respect your beliefs and your views about god. and it is probably a great comfort for you. im glad for you. I have no reason to argue back and forth about your god given right to do and believe exactly as you chose. In fact, i think its a sickness in itself to find reasons to argue with others, when you really don't have to... i fall short on my efforts not to do so, but for the most part now i think ive got it manageable. "hey" did you argue with someone today?..NO? well then that's the main thing....lets make a cake! you are right about the 'herd' concept. i was one of those people who just didn't belong in aa. It helped me to get sober, and i will always be grateful for that, and it gave me my god, but after that, i really tried very hard to become' one of the herd, and at times i was, and even felt like it. but then my independant nature, and ability to think for myself would always take over. although i worked as good a "pro-gram" as any; did service work, read all the literature, and had a good knowledge of the steps, traditions, and concepts... the strange uncomfortablenesss would always come back. i began to actually withdrawl from people there, and i lost interest all together after a while because it seemed to be the same thing, same power struggles at the service level, and the heavy tension in the district meetings was always thick. (But don't you know it was because i was so selfish and didn't care about anyone)) according to my sponsor at the time, because we cannot admit to anything contradictory, it had to be my fault, and i spent years taking responsibilty for crap that wasn't my issue)) how nice and abusive was that? It was a horrible feeling to even be there anymore. i don't think im better than anyone there, and i wasn't resentful whatsoever, just happy to see how much i had grown to be grateful for, and i gave back big time. but i didn't want to subject myself to the stuff i had long worked past anymore because i felt stuck, i badly needed to move on. like i said, i worked hard, maybe too hard, because it seemed like i grew right out of there so to speak. My getting well was not tolerated, especially by the power hungry elders... and my independance wasn't workable to them i guess, and so there it is... i wasn't even wanted there and i could feel that. i must have stayed for at least 2 years after i realized i didn't belong, when i finally left for good, i felt a huge relief and realized i hadn't left sooner because i was terrified by the very cultish-mantra's like;... "you'll die if you don't go to meetings" or "if you don't go to meetings you'll drink again" and so on. it took some time to 'deprogram myself, but i did it. (and regardless of what you think, im not saying this because i am angry, or have an agenda to hurt aa, these are simply the facts of my experience, strength and hope. and i will not buckle under the attacks of tradition 3's only desire tactic to get rid of me.. i have something to share and im going to share it. Another thing they said that was not true (at least for me) was the slogan "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic'.. i have the odd drink now and again, but i don't abuse it. i might have two drinks, sometimes more, but as soon as i start to feel over my limit it turns me off, and i stop, because i don't like to feel sick anymore, so obviously something has changed in me big time! i don't get drunk and black out and carry on like the village idiot and drive my vehicle after ive had even 2 drinks because its not responsible period, simple, but at one time i was totally alcoholic. i had to go to meetings and i had to quit, and get straightened out, but after many years of it, i lost my fear of killing myself by the drink, its pretty amamzing, i'll bet there are many out there like me,,,and i think its good for at least some one to be here and share it with others. (it seems like after a while, the problem becomes placing so much emphasis on the drink problem ling after a person has recovered, year after year after year, and a person develops a kind of paranoia about it, and its unhealthy in my opinion, if you want to be 'that devout about an issue, why not make it god, and your relationship to him, i call mine "Jesus Crist. Once my foundation was so firmly established in god, i found it effortless to be generally healthy and in good safe hands. It seems like aa has taken a social problem and literally made a religion out of it. if i was a problem gambler and i had recovered, i personally think it would be rather bizarre after 20 years of no gambling; for someone to be saying to me, "how's your day going?, not so great today i reply, and they then look at me and say.."well did you gamble today?... no..well that's the main thing....I would probably think they were nuts and had a severe case of living in the past... especially if they went home and made a cake for me and then had a celebration over my not gambling 20 years later... bizarre,, its called move on... quit living in the past...5 years was enough for me..it is now my belief that after you've given yourself to 5 years of giving back, getting a foundation, its probably time to move on.. if your still stewing around in aa for longer than that, then you havn't got what you were suppose to get, and some take longer than others.. thanx. i got some beliefs today that are healthy, and i didn't get them from aa, i believe in the marriage bond, heterosexuality, abortion is murder, heavy smoking is gross, foul language is not good, and Jesus's teachings are absolutes, how can there possible be anything bad about what Jesus taught. look at how much is saved by the sacred marriage bond and not having sex outside of it.. no diseases. unwanted births, abortions, jealous ragers and hurt people, the list of what happens to people when they are promiscuous is a mile long, but how comforting to know your mate is for life, and real security is yours, not false. nowadays people get down with each other because they are so controlled by thier sexuall instincts and its really discusting... like animals being led around by thier genitals.. how gross is that?... people who can't even develop friendships first with the opposite sex, because thier sex driven lust takes them over before they even know the person.. how "unintimate" can you get...


Member: Brice
Location: from the confessional
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 2:41:06 PM

Comments

Hello and good morning. thanx for that interesting info....I respect your beliefs and your views about god. and it is probably a great comfort for you. im glad for you. I have no reason to argue back and forth about your god given right to do and believe exactly as you chose. In fact, i think its a sickness in itself to find reasons to argue with others, when you really don't have to... i fall short on my efforts not to do so, but for the most part now i think ive got it manageable. "hey" did you argue with someone today?..NO? well then that's the main thing....lets make a cake! you are right about the 'herd' concept. i was one of those people who just didn't belong in aa. It helped me to get sober, and i will always be grateful for that, and it gave me my god, but after that, i really tried very hard to become' one of the herd, and at times i was, and even felt like it. but then my independant nature, and ability to think for myself would always take over. although i worked as good a "pro-gram" as any; did service work, read all the literature, and had a good knowledge of the steps, traditions, and concepts... the strange uncomfortablenesss would always come back. i began to actually withdrawl from people there, and i lost interest all together after a while because it seemed to be the same thing, same power struggles at the service level, and the heavy tension in the district meetings was always thick. (But don't you know it was because i was so selfish and didn't care about anyone)) according to my sponsor at the time, because we cannot admit to anything contradictory, it had to be my fault, and i spent years taking responsibilty for crap that wasn't my issue)) how nice and abusive was that? It was a horrible feeling to even be there anymore. i don't think im better than anyone there, and i wasn't resentful whatsoever, just happy to see how much i had grown to be grateful for, and i gave back big time. but i didn't want to subject myself to the stuff i had long worked past anymore because i felt stuck, i badly needed to move on. like i said, i worked hard, maybe too hard, because it seemed like i grew right out of there so to speak. My getting well was not tolerated, especially by the power hungry elders... and my independance wasn't workable to them i guess, and so there it is... i wasn't even wanted there and i could feel that. i must have stayed for at least 2 years after i realized i didn't belong, when i finally left for good, i felt a huge relief and realized i hadn't left sooner because i was terrified by the very cultish-mantra's like;... "you'll die if you don't go to meetings" or "if you don't go to meetings you'll drink again" and so on. it took some time to 'deprogram myself, but i did it. (and regardless of what you think, im not saying this because i am angry, or have an agenda to hurt aa, these are simply the facts of my experience, strength and hope. and i will not buckle under the attacks of tradition 3's only desire tactic to get rid of me.. i have something to share and im going to share it. Another thing they said that was not true (at least for me) was the slogan "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic'.. i have the odd drink now and again, but i don't abuse it. i might have two drinks, sometimes more, but as soon as i start to feel over my limit it turns me off, and i stop, because i don't like to feel sick anymore, so obviously something has changed in me big time! i don't get drunk and black out and carry on like the village idiot and drive my vehicle after ive had even 2 drinks because its not responsible period, simple, but at one time i was totally alcoholic. i had to go to meetings and i had to quit, and get straightened out, but after many years of it, i lost my fear of killing myself by the drink, its pretty amamzing, i'll bet there are many out there like me,,,and i think its good for at least some one to be here and share it with others. (it seems like after a while, the problem becomes placing so much emphasis on the drink problem ling after a person has recovered, year after year after year, and a person develops a kind of paranoia about it, and its unhealthy in my opinion, if you want to be 'that devout about an issue, why not make it god, and your relationship to him, i call mine "Jesus Crist. Once my foundation was so firmly established in god, i found it effortless to be generally healthy and in good safe hands. It seems like aa has taken a social problem and literally made a religion out of it. if i was a problem gambler and i had recovered, i personally think it would be rather bizarre after 20 years of no gambling; for someone to be saying to me, "how's your day going?, not so great today i reply, and they then look at me and say.."well did you gamble today?... no..well that's the main thing....I would probably think they were nuts and had a severe case of living in the past... especially if they went home and made a cake for me and then had a celebration over my not gambling 20 years later... bizarre,, its called move on... quit living in the past...5 years was enough for me..it is now my belief that after you've given yourself to 5 years of giving back, getting a foundation, its probably time to move on.. if your still stewing around in aa for longer than that, then you havn't got what you were suppose to get, and some take longer than others.. thanx. i got some beliefs today that are healthy, and i didn't get them from aa, i believe in the marriage bond, heterosexuality, abortion is murder, heavy smoking is gross, foul language is not good, and Jesus's teachings are absolutes, how can there possible be anything bad about what Jesus taught. look at how much is saved by the sacred marriage bond and not having sex outside of it.. no diseases. unwanted births, abortions, jealous ragers and hurt people, the list of what happens to people when they are promiscuous is a mile long, but how comforting to know your mate is for life, and real security is yours, not false. nowadays people get down with each other because they are so controlled by thier sexuall instincts and its really discusting... like animals being led around by thier genitals.. how gross is that?... people who can't even develop friendships first with the opposite sex, because thier sex driven lust takes them over before they even know the person.. how "unintimate" can you get...


Member: Joe L.
Location:
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 2:47:32 PM

Comments

There you go folks,another true story and testimony of a person becoming fully recovered and moving on to other sapects of their life.Like the man said stop living in the moment and the your guilt and shame from something that happened so long ago in your life,it is called maturity.


Member: pay pay
Location: day day
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 4:58:11 PM

Comments

"Don't quit before the miricle happens" and though I've never seen water turned to wine, I've seen him keep a coffee pot a going, when there was a mile long line! A little prayer from me, from way back there you see, kept it going, and I was the only one knowing!..


Member: 1st Time
Location: Traveling
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 7:43:18 PM

Comments

I'm having a hard time,dealing with a very close family members death. Usually, I go out and drink for days!! Go on binges, off and on. But, I came to find out that. Drinking and using drugs, are not going to help me at least one bit!! And I'm dealing with my family's death slowly. Here I was mad at God for awhile, but come to really think about it. At least he wouldn't have to deal with all this ludicris in this world!! Then, everything happens for a reason also. God doesn't put you through anything you can not handle!! Even though it seems you can't handle it, you can!! Even if you have to take it a day at a time. Or even by hours or minutes. You all take care and hang in there too!! Later, thanks for letting me share.


Member: Kellog
Location: NY
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 8:17:58 PM

Comments

Wow, Rinzai and Babe(yeah--I know it was you, not some Brice charachter), you cats are alright and actually gave me some hope from reading your posts. Something I can't say has been done more than a handful of times in the year or so I'v been coming here. For that I truly thank you! I'm not in 100% absolute agreement, but the degree of honesty and open-mindedness is astounding as I had practically gien up on this site altogether. What the heck, maybe God doesn't want me outta here yet, huh?


Member: Marcy K.
Location: Salina, KS
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 9:51:00 PM

Comments

You know what they say opionions are like aholes everyone has one. It seems to me the ones of you so set on religion are being diverted from our primary purpose which is to carry the message to the alcoholic who still suffers.


Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 11:25:39 PM

Comments

Brice, Or whoever you are, RR? Why would you post all that if your obviously not even an alcoholic? Cut and paste it over on Rational Recovery where it can be appreciated by the few there that are not alcoholics. Why go to so much effort to prove what you are not? Do you miss AA so much you have to come here and post? Maybe you could start an 'Alcoholic No More' board?


Member:
Location:
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 11:48:05 PM

Comments

Kelly, you are truly in need of help as you have no clue of what you speak......


Member: gray davis
Location: california
Date: 9/27/2003
Time: 11:56:53 PM

Comments

Marcy and kelly need to go start their own---less than a year-sober & brainwashed so please dont disrupt my comfy little aa-world of make-believe club. You two are truly idiots1


Member: Guess Who???
Location:
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 1:46:04 AM

Comments

Yes, life is good and this board is too. Tomorrow is another shot at yet another wonderful day. Sobriety rocks! There is a solution and that is to not drink, go to meetings, call your sponsor, ask for help and pick up the phone it ain't that heavy! Yes, my brain is washed and it really needed one, how about yours, need a little shampoo?


Member: Brice is nice
Location: in the confessional........
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 2:18:24 AM

Comments

Kelly)) i'm sorry if what i posted, upset you. (i really mean that) i hope you will feel better soon if you are still burning over it. as i had said, i didn't post it to hurt you and i don't intend to run down aa. it was simply my experience. if your new, i really do believe that you should work as hard as you can on your recovery and abstain from alcohol in the early going. i think its great that you seem to be trying. "Your big book will tell you that if you RR in the least bit reasonable, that you will admit that there is plenty wrong with you about which plenty must be done. i was there once, and i can tell you it took years, there is no quick fix. i still have work to do and always will, but the severe emotional twists that your 12 by 12 talk about are all but gone now, but i had to work really hard. So Kelly, i wish you well in your journey, and we'll see you down the road of happy destiny okay? rule 62 honey,,,rule 62. On another note; did you all know that it is possible to heal to the point of being able to enjoy alcohol and not want to go right off the deep end and kill yourself with it? This has been true for me, for quite some time now)) am i the only one who has this experience to share?.. i would like to hear from others..on the issue...and i would like to calmly address those who will be angry about that right now in advance:.. i would like to extend my sincerest empathy for your angersome states over someone elses gig)),..it is rather interesting, don't you think? btw; why would anyone need to get angry over it? im sure not angry, and i don't hate any of you here, so hey.. have a safe and sober night... and so will i. i will also continue to enjoy the odd drink along with sober thoughts, sober actions, and sober decisions etc....thanx. prayers all around.


Member: catfight diner?
Location:
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 2:27:53 AM

Comments

TABLE FOR 2?.....SAUCER OF MILK?....RRRRROOOOWWRRRRRRR SFFFPTTT SFFFPTT..fur fly fur fly... mmmeowwwrreeeewwww!!!!!!


Member: private
Location: in the army...last name PARTS.....HA HA HAHAHAH
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 2:31:07 AM

Comments

hello.....


Member: SuzyQ
Location: Safford Springs,Ct
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 2:51:55 AM

Comments

hi PARTS!Welcome.When I was drinking,I couldn't even think,much less pray.My very low bottom was a hole that I dug underneath the bottom of the proverbial barrel.When I was completely licked and surrender or die were my only choices, I began to pray.God mercifully hesrd that prayer and brought me back from the gates of death to the rooms of AA.All of you taught me how to pray for His will to be done.I pray every day now,the third step prayer,I pray that He will direct my thinking(I need all the help I can get in this department!)and I pray that He help me be patient, tolerant, kind and loving, that I have the opportunity to help another person today...


Member: I stopped
Location:
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 4:25:11 AM

Comments

........ If you find your self in a ........ DIGGING


Member: I stopped
Location:
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 4:27:38 AM

Comments

........If you find yourself in a hole........ STOP DIGGING