Member: Harry K
Location: U.K
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 7:29:57 AM
I never thought I'd be first. But as it seems to be the case, I'd love to go back to the 5th chapter "How it works" and the topic on What was it about A.A that we wanted, and to what "lengths" did some of us have to go to get it. "If you have decided you want what we have, and are willing to go to any lenths to get it, then you are ready to take certain steps". I knew exactly what others had which I wanted (and it wasn't just about being sober) and as I began my journy I had to make numerous choices and sacrifices in order to get it. I'll wait until later in the week before I share what it was for me, but for now, I'd love to hear what it was for you folks. Of course if you don't like this topic, than start another. GOD BLESS YOU ALL!
Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 8:10:41 AM
It is Sunday and I'm off to Church then a meeting. I will skip the "precious blood" today because I'm an alcoholic. If the blood/ wine is fermented I can't have it. I did not want to respond to that angry person again because it doesn't really matter who is right. I can't drink alcohol of any kind today. I can have the Eucharist and as others said it is a symbolic ceremomy. It does not make me any less of a Catholic to not partake in that part of the service. Hmmm. As for Priests not being alcoholics because the precious blood won't get them drunk I have to beg to differ. I have known one Priest that was sent to a rehab for alcoholism. Priests are human beings just like the rest of us. It makes me think of one part of the Big Book that says that alcoholics have been around since the first man crushed grapes. I believe that is true and that would have been the perfect job for me in that day. Lol. Lets stay off the precious blood just for today! Kelly ;)
Member: The
Location: Truth
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 8:33:00 AM
Yes, it makes you NOT Catholic at all dear Kelly! It is NOT symbollic, that is what protestants believe who celebrate it, are you truly that ignorant?
Member: The
Location: Truth
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 8:33:45 AM
Yes, it makes you NOT Catholic at all dear Kelly! It is NOT symbollic, that is what protestants believe who celebrate it, are you truly that ignorant?
Member: nq
Location: f
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 8:36:23 AM
Your probably lesbian too, right?
Member: Ron L
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 8:39:13 AM
Ron L. alcoholic, What a great topic. This is what happened to me, A guy I use to drink with took it upon himself to pay me a 12 step call, he was sober for two years I remember telling him that if I ever wanted to stay drunk now was the time because I coulden't face all the trouble I was in sober. His reply was " stay sober one day at a time and nothing but good will happen to you," I went to a mgt. and thats when I heard, " If you want what we have," And I looked around the room wondering what you had that I wanted... Don't give me a wife & kids I lost mine & it hurt so much, don't give me a house and car I lost them and it hurt, don't give me respect & love I lost that, don't give me friends & a good job I lost all those things and I hurt so much, don't give me sobriety I tried to stay sober and I coulden't and that hurt. As I looked around at all the faces my gaze came to rest on the face of the guy who brought me, and he smiled at me, And I thought to hell with sobriety and every thing else if I can stick around here long enough to smile like that I will have derived more that what I deserve. That Harry happened over 30 years ago and Ive been here ever since
Member: Last
Location: One
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 8:44:45 AM
You need to just go to a Episcopalian or other protestant church Kelly, because that is the most basic and primary difference between such. If one does not believe in the Eucharist, then one is simply NOT Catholic. The Eaucharist the single most important doctrine and dogma in the entire Faith! If you don't want to believe it, fine---but neither you nor davez speak for the Church, only your own warped alkie minds. It would be similar to saying that one could still be truly sober even while drinking. Some believe that in the real world, but not in AA. It's the exact same analogy and you are spreading heresy as being correct, so your damn right I'm pissed as you know NOT of what you speak, yet wish to defend your blashphemeous words? Mat God have mercy on you.......
Member: Albert
Location: NE US
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 9:12:21 AM
And back to the topic at hand--------- This is maybe the best example of exactly why I so despise the vast majority of the big book. People just buy it lock,stock, and barrel without actually thinking about it. I have absolutely NO desire for anything anyone in AA nor anywhere else has. Not wanting what you have, I quite obviously am not willing to go to any lenghts to get something I have no desire for. I do however have a sincere desire to not drink alcohol and have not done so in alot of years, nearly as many as I drank now. I've not only done the steps in the way the big book describes, but any number of other ways as well, so what. What I do want is what I already have to grow even more fully. Sobriety and the steps are simply the first step in life if you will, not the end all and be all of everything as is often implied in meetings. As Harry said he wanted more than just the not drinking and I can agree and hope everybody does, that's quite honestly not only the primary purpose of AA, but all I see in not only 99.9% of AA's, but all alot of them want. I also don't view myself personally as having "gotten" sobriety nor anything else from AA, but from God Himself, and thus my gratitude lay with Him, not AA per se. For me it basically all comes down to flip-flopping the ages-old question of "Do the ends justify the means(?)," to "Do the means justify the ends?" In the end, I may not have all the answers, but I do know I love God more than I ever imagined I could love anything or anyone and I do a much better job of it without drinking. I also know it was, is, and always will be ONLY through His grace that I have developed in this manner, and I am eternally grateful. We are ALL terminally unique and our paths are all our own personal journey's, yet we're all intimately interconnected at the same time. And not just in AA because we're alcoholics, but in the entire world because we're human beings and children of God. "No man is an island unto himself."
Member: For
Location: Kelly
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 9:21:00 AM
now it makes a little more sense--kellygirl has less than a year sober and is a "victim" of abuse, poor girl........no wonder she is soo terribly confused and even sadder is that she and other woman who are most vulnerable early in sobriety but into the feminist agenda bullcrap as she obviously has---that's REAL ABUSE---let's censor THAT!
Member: Daniel
Location: Chicago
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 9:56:44 AM
Sorry to see people using this site as a bulletin board to share religious views.The AA I attend is a support network for anyone that wants to stop drinking but has trouble doing so on thier own.We don't want to impose any views on anyone.We say if you want to drink and get high thats your business and we certainly understand that.If you see what we have and want it we will share it with you.Thats all.We are not refomers.What I get from AA are ways to live a spiritual life that restores me to a healthier state so drinking does'nt look like an attractive option for today.I use AA as a pathway that enables me to have a full life.Today I work for a living,am a reliable son to my parents and friend to my friends.I'm an artist,I run, bike,and workout.I have a full life thanks to AA.I do believe that many people sober up in many different ways but for myself AA has made the most sense.I took my drinking to the gates of insanity and death.I did time in prisons and state hospitals.I've lived on the streets.In AA I find others who did the same stuff so I don't feel as alone,like such a freak.Greatful to be sober today.
Member: Johnson
Location: Colorado
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 10:00:39 AM
Ron, those are all "things." Are you saying sobriety is about getting "things?" That's exactly what I do NOT want, I want the intangibles of the full spiritual life, what do you have to offer in that most important and esential area?
Member: Robin
Location: Nevada
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 10:02:19 AM
Thanks for you shared Ron, and thank you Harry for the topic! I much prefer it to to the dribble about "The Church". My sobriety is about me not whatever else others might want to focus on. I'm new to this site and i'm excited about the first topic raised. I wish I knew what it was that I wanted when I came into A.A, I was confused and hurting. I felt like a slut and all used up at 34. About all I knew back then was what I DIDN'T WANT! I didn't want to feel used by people and a slave to alcohol anymore. I didn't want to feel alone and frightened anymore. I didn't want to keep thinking that suicide was a reasonable alternative anymore. I didn't want to keep living the same way anymore. When my cousin took me to an A.A meeting in K.C, I really felt strange. I might have felt worse! People were getting on with their lives and they all seemed to just be O.K with whatever life had in store for them. I felt very far behind and didn't think at that stage of my life I could gain what I thought others had. I went to another meeting the next day and a woman who must have been 70 started to talk. Though she was elderly, she was very well dressed and quite pretty. I couldn't put my finger on it but she just seemed to "shine". I was able to identify with her every word as to how she used to feel. For her it was all in the past. for me, it was all very present. I felt a glimmer of hope, and thats all I had at first. When she finished, she said "I was 39 years old then, and God willing, in 2 years I will be able to say I'd been sober for at least half my life". Maggie became my sponsor and died 10 years later at 87. One of many lengths I had to go through was to first stop associating with all those I used to drink with. It wasn't easy because I grew up with many of these people and thought they were my friends. Another thing I had to do was stay away from MEN! I was far to imature to allow those kinds of distractions to get in the way. I got involved with service, first to my home group, then in my area. I did as it says in chapter 5. I had to let go of my old ideas and I completly gave myself to this simple (though not always easy) program. I'm now sober 20 years and have been happily married to a non-alcoholic for 14 years. My life began when I came into A.A, It began to improve as I worked the steps. And only today I can only say that I was ATTRACTED to this way of life by others who did it before me and guided me. What A.A had that I wanted was the quality of people it helped transform. I'm not going to tell you I like everyone I meet, but I no longer poison myself by my own harsh jugement or expectation as to who or how I think they should be. They have a GOD of their own as well. And if they do what so many of us also did, they will also become happy, responsible human beings. Thanks again for the topic. I don't think I could have responded to it in a couple of sentances.
Member: Anne S
Location: glasgow scotland
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 10:17:34 AM
glad to see daniel making sense here.aa is not a religious program it is a recovery program helping many of us to stay sober on a daily basis the rest of your life is up to you but be warned aa gives us a consience and surelywe can learn to raspect each other as individuals.rock on recovery.peace and love to you all.glad to sober.
Member: Mike H
Location: Jackson Michigan
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 10:23:44 AM
To me, it is all about change and the willingness to change. I had to throw out what didn't work and find things that did. Working the steps to the best of my ability. Going to meetings to share myself with others and learn from others. Just being with others that share the common need of not drinking and doing something about it. This is what works for me. As for the "Eucharist" it is "symbolic of what Christ did at the last supper" and has nothing to do with AA. It is your choice whether or not you participate in drinking from the cup. It is not manditory for faith or belief and yes I am Catholic.
Member: Nancy
Location: Missouri
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 10:25:19 AM
Awesome words, Daniel. My hope is to continue to stay sober-ODAAT-and to help other alkies to achieve sobriety. Period.
Member: Alkie
Location: and priest
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 10:43:13 AM
Of course you don't have to partake of the Precious Blood, you just have to believe it is what it is, NOT symbollic! Read the liberal publication of Sept. '03 Liguorian and its cover stry on dissent. The only things that are essential to be in communion with the Church are dogma's, of which there are very few. The main one mentioned is the most basic of the Real Presence--period---or you are NOT in communion and hence NOT Catholic. That not only from one of the most liberal publications in the world, but I'm a priest and you people are trying to tell me about Catholicism, go figure....
Member: Anne S
Location: glasgow scotland
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 10:48:26 AM
nancy you are truly my kind of person.i never look at a new member as a religion.i came to aa with no faith hope or charity in my heart or soul.i only knew i could go no further down in life.five years later i have hope faith and i love aa.thank you all for being my higher power till i have the strength to search for my own.o.d.a.a.t.
Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 10:50:28 AM
Hey Everyone, So sorry to post the above on todays board. At 7am it was still last weeks board, or so I thought? and I just wrote it for me thinking it would be erased soon. I think the topic for the week is a good one and we should let bye-gones be bygones and let it go. I need to hear about recovery and How it works, Thanks Harry for the topic. Going to whatever lengths to get sober has me here today and not laying in my sick bed. I no longer resemble a sweaty jack hammer anymore either... BONUS! I'm just very grateful to be around sober and happy. Kelly :)
Member: Anne S
Location: glasgow scotland
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 11:15:53 AM
aa tells me there is a reason for everything and i believe it.kelly,follow your heart you seem so nice.daniel you got me talking on my very first aa site(sometimes i dont have the words at the "live shows")feels great to talk openly.nancy,like i said my kind of lady.drink dictated how i lived for many years today i make reasonable decisions for myself.yea sometimes they are the wrong ones but as long as i am willing to learn from them they are useful.that to me is recovery willing to learn,who would have believed it from a child girl and eventually a woman who lived with bad choices every day till i found aa.today i decided not to lift that first deadly drink!!!be good,stay sober,it truly is the way forward.
Member: D-Flat
Location: ND
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 11:37:08 AM
"GO to any lengths" that little saying has always held my attention,i was afraid to go to meetings at first, and actually be around people that were sober and seemed happy, at first that bugged the shit out of me, (there fakin it)i thought, but as i went throught the steps with my friend and begin to see myself for the first time and how i was reacting to life, and that my recover starts from within, i started to feel some of the promises come true in my life, like losing my fear of people, now i truely do want what my higher power has and will give me, Peace and the ability to live on lifes terms ..
Member: Beto L
Location: Tampico, Mexico
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 12:35:50 PM
At my first meeting I was impressed by the eyes of the sober people in the room. I had carried a bottle of "gets the red out" eye wash around in my pants pocket for years, and my eyes never had the sparkle that their eyes had. I haven't had a drink since my first meeting over 28 years ago. My eyes sparkle now, too. Of course I wanted to stay sober. I was told that if I put half as much effort into staying sober as I did into staying drunk, I would never have to drink again. I'm happy to report that it didn't even take that much effort. Beto
Member: Kat
Location:
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 12:44:16 PM
I don't want what others have, I want what God wants me to be. And clarity of mind, body and spirit is essential to hear His call and do His will. AA has provided me the steps to surrender and cleansing so I can be a conduit and vessel to God's love and light. At the end of our days, when we are called home, I believe that God is simply going to say "What did you do with what I gave you?" NOT "Why weren't you more like Kelly or Ron or that angry priest?"
Member: Marie
Location: Tennesee
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 12:50:52 PM
Welcome all. Glad you are here and glad I am here. You are exactly what got me sober and keeps me sober. Anne S-- Glad to see you posting. I have a hard time doing that myself. Thanks for the good thoughts everyone. It is nice to find people happy in sobriety.
Member: Sue A
Location: Michigan
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 1:08:08 PM
I wanted what my first sponsor had - desparately. She had a sober husband with a job, three gorgeous kids, she was slim, she was blond, she had money and friends. In the year she was my sponsor, I watched as her divorce that secretly-drinking bum because he was molesting the kids, and spend most of her money finishing her education so she could support those kids and keep them in therapy. What she didn't lose was her sobriety, her sanity, and her friends. Boy, when I moved away, did I want what she had. And, by the grace of God, I've been sober long enough to have a sober husband, a 13-yr-old daughter, a career, and enough money to keep a roof over our heads on a daily basis. Oh, yeah, and a Higher Power who loves me, who isn't out to get me. Aren't I just the luckiest drunk ever?
Member: Mark from New York's inventory
Location:
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 1:09:07 PM
happy sober and contentment to you all. Thanx for all your shares... i see that unfortunate example of catholisism is still finding fault and making sure to point it out to you all... tell me priest...don't you ever get tired of your act?.. have you ever heard of the concept of change and growth? must a tough row to hoe for you. Angrily trying to shove others into marching the way you think... and get a load of the vicious attacks and vulgarities he called me the other day... what was that again Mark for NY..? dumb bitch?.. oh yes that's right that's what it was you called me. very nice. Apparently you have so much hot air to share with us dumb bitches and losers that you have to post under a dozen different names to get it all out... And what makes you even sicker is you'll all of a sudden come out with a "heartfelt and seemingly genuine post.. and on the next beat your a vicious attacking viper... (sweetheart) i think the proffesionals have a name for you. you might want to look at that. So now that i have spoken some truth about you, and taken your inventory...HOW DO YOU LIKE IT?)) im probably guaranteed to hear some more abusive posts from you. oh well; guess you gotta do what you gotta do... (LET'S FACE IT MARK FROM ALBANY NY) YOU PROBABLY LEAD A 2 FACED DOUBLE LIFE OF LIES... I BET THE PEOPLE OR PRIESTS WHERE YOU ATTEND MASS WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW YOU ARE USING THIS SITE TO VENT YOUR ABUSIVE OTHER PERSONALITY ON THE INNOCENT VICTIMS HERE ON THIS SITE... GOD; I DON'T EVEN WANT TO IMAGINE WHAT OTHER SITES DO YOU USE TO HURT PEOPLE AND FORCE YOUR VIEWS AROUND? I'LL BET YOU'LL COOK UP SOME LIES ABOUT ME AND POST THEM AT ME NOW EH?.. NO DOUBT YOU'LL SHOWING YOUR TRUE COLORS AGAIN. IT MUST BE PAINFUL TO BE YOU. WELL LIKE I ALWAYS SAY.. see ya wouldn't want to be ya.
Member: L-RAY
Location: SCOTLAND
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 1:19:54 PM
Good topic Harry when i first came and relised that i had to get of my arse and do something about my life! the lengths well for me it was bringing the program into my life! i had to knuckle down and give this a try! and time passed and life became good and drink didnt play a part in it- i still do ftf meets and sponser< i was willing to go to any lengths Harry and finding god was a positive step forward,and i found true serenity! ill be 17years sober to-morrow the 15th so i did something right lol Regards L-RAY
Member: PBJ
Location: Dallas
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 1:47:16 PM
Hola and thanks for the topic Harry. It's interesting that you should mention 'How it Works.' Several days ago, we had a new person come to our group and he told about his first experience with A.A. and hearing 'How it Works.' He told about sitting at that first meeting while a female 'old-timer' read 'How it Works.' He said she was on oxygen and had her oxygen tube in one hand and a cigarette in the other. She was alternating between taking a breath of oxygen and a puff off her cigarette. When she got the part that states, 'If you want what we have . . . ,' he just got up and left. He said that even though he was just one day sober, he could spot a phony a mile away. If she had come to A.A. for all those years and couldn't stay clean and sober for the hour a meeting takes, even though her addiction caused her to be on oxygen, he sure didn't want what she had. Of course, he was right. Luckily, he decided to give A.A. another try and came to our group, which is a clean and sober group. I'm glad he did. The lesson to be learned is to always remember that we set an example for the newcomer. If you want to smoke or do any other drugs, that's of course your business. But, when you are representing A.A. in any form, leave your drug addiction at home. No one like phonies, and that includes phony sobriety. So, if you're not yet totally clean and sober, please put your addiction on hold when you come to meetings, lest they see your addiction and decide that the message is 'How is Doesn't Work,' instead of 'How it Works.'
Member: Pam B - Sobergirl91 at hotmail dot com
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 2:41:08 PM
Hi, I'm Pam, an alcoholic. When I got to my 1st AA mtg in 1981 when I was 28 yrs old, I seriously did not think I had a drinking nor drug problem - I was tricked into going for other reasons by a man I'd never met before who had 7 yrs sobriety & was 12-Stepping me without my knowing it. >>>>> at 23 yrs old, due to a profound significant spiritual experience directly w/God, from that day forward I'd been living by faith w/a compulsive-obsessive type thirst to know every word the Bible says -& trying to live it to the best of my ability each day. I had stopped all the drugs but did not think my drinking was objectionable in any way (believed it was my "reward" at the end of each long hard week) >>>>> For several months prior to that 1st AA mtg - I had developed an inability to stand myself but couldn't place any reason for it. - also had developed a growing sense of impending doom that I couldn't place any reason for (was always in a constant knot of intense anxiety) - & I had also become convinced that I had some strange mysterious mental illness of some sort that I'd be locked away forever if anyone ever discovered the way I honestly think & feel about things. >>>>> at that very 1st mtg I felt the Presence of God so strongly that I knew He wanted me there, so I paid attention trying to find out why. I was amazed to discover that I am an alcoholic as I listened to all the shares & totally identifyed w/being powerless over alcohol. I realized that I had been allowing alcohol to run my life - not God!-I wanted to be free so I could let God run the show how He wants me to live. >>>>> I was doubly amazed to hear shares of others having the same kind of thinking as I'd been keeping secret about myself having - & the same sense of impending doom & inability to stand themselves - only they were also sharing solutions they'd found to grow free of it all thru the 12 Steps. I wanted to know what these 12 Steps are & see if doing the same would also free me. >>>>> I listened to shares of what their lives used to be like & could hardly believe the sparkle in their eyes & happy glow about them that more than showed they'd been healed & grown freed of their miserable pasts. I wanted to have all this that they now had for themselves too. >>>>> I knew without a doubt that all things are possible w/God - & I believed this AA thing is what He wanted me to do so I could fullfill my deepest heart desire to grow towards my ideal goal of getting right w/Him. - I wanted to achieve Sobriety also. >>>>> I surrendered w/willingness to go any lengths - do whatever I had to do - rely on God for that continued strength & willingness to do so - pray each morning for this, read BB, journal, phone the sponsor each morning as I was told to do, make it to a mtg ea day, pray for God to remove the cravings/desire/thoughts of drinking ea time I had one & call other sober AA's to talk about it, keep saying the Serenity Prayer & to keep my focus on what God wants to change in me - let Him also take care of whatever changes anyone else may need, stay away from drinking/drugging friends, family, persons places & things, put effort into getting to know sober people & making new friends among them, join a home group & get active to help put on the mtg ea week, keep sobriety my #1 priority before all else each one day at a time, give thanks at night - no matter what, don't drink. Do whatever next right thing is set before me each day & pray to put my thoughts on what I might do to help someone else instead always looking to whats for me. Thats what willingness to go any lengths has been for me. Thanks for letting me share. Pam
Member: Anne S
Location: glasgow scotland
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 3:20:37 PM
had to take my labrador to the vet(bee sting)an act of being responsible,great stuff even tho it cost a fortune for a vet on sundays.thats recovery again.harry thank you for posting a topic that made me take a good look at what lengths i would go to to firstly get sober then to stay sober.i used to go to every meeting crying and feeling my life was ruined after i started to listen to people sharing i realized i had lived in a bubble of selfishness so my first thing to go was self will run riot next my 24 years of marriage we no longer communicated,and worst of all no longer living at home with my son.my son used to say aa was brain washing but on my second aa birthday he said he now thought of it as "dry cleaning"my husband and i have one of the best broken marriages ever(still a small bump in the road but nothing awful)and i live a good life today.i cant share a part of my recovery as it is too painful and only for my sponser to hear.suffice to say my height is five foot two inches my lengths cannot be measured.a rocky road anyone can travel if you are willing to go to any lengths.come on in,the water is lovely!!!!!grateful to be sober.love to everyone.ps the dog(columbus,so called because he is an explorer)is good now,medicine works so does aa x x
Member: NOT MARK
Location: NOT NY
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 4:58:06 PM
Who the hell is Mark from Albany, New York? Would somebody please tell us ALL as only this one sick person seems to think he/she knows something the rest of us don't. Also funny how someone keeps harping on the damn cigareetes thingy, I mean geez, I never smoked and agree yet your driving me batty with the whole speally deally dolly......see ya's on the flip
Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 5:20:59 PM
HI. Bill here. Alcoholic from Arizona. And worse. Big book thumper; Traditions keeper; accused bleeding deacon; and of all things a confirmed Episcopalian that does not attend religious services on a regular basis. I am simply amazed that I have stayed sober this long carrying those burdens. :) Going to any lengths for me was to get into the steps as outlined in the Big book as quickly as possible. So two of us got together and started, him sober one day, I sober 7. In today's intelligent AA he would have been told he wasn't ready yet. :) Someone asked me one time what I expected out of sobriety. It did not take much thought. Home, family, decent job, nice automobile. Community, a normal life. I got that and much more... both spiritual and temporal. AA is much more of a start living program than it is a stop drinking program. Material things. Yep I got em. Just sold one of my homes at a good profit. I doubt very seriously if I will drink over that one. On the light side.. Many times I have heard someone say they did not want to win the lottery and such;l and every time about 30 old timers would raise there hands and yell, "I'll take it!!" Me included :)Thanks for being here and being a part of my sobriety today. Love ya, Bill
Member: ((ATTENTION ALL WHO SEEK COMMUNION WITH ABUSERS
Location: SEE THE CATHOLIC PRIEST
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 6:05:14 PM
For The "alkie and priets" dude who posted his intelligent thoughts on communion. ( a few further thoughts for ya buddy.. (sweetheart) you may know how to do communion, but why don't you also try confession... for instance.. why don't you tell your catholic colleagues that you called me a "dumb bitch here yesterday... you are in fact a vulgar abuser of women and men here on this site at times. and why don't you read a few books and learn what abuse is, and get some recovery on the issue as you definately have the problem.. sheesh buddy! you think anyone gives a rats rear end what you do and don't know about what?... get real!.....You sure your not in a black out or something?
Member: BABE
Location: not confused about why im here.
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 7:00:10 PM
Thanx for your share bill...everyone.. (our real purpose is to be of maximum service to god and to those around us...big book.. don't remember what page... this statement is a great relief from self pity, self getting, wanting more, and not being satisfied with what we do have or how it went etc etcetera... because that is not our real purpose.... works for me..... Also: as alcoholics 'selfishness is the root of our problem,, none of us wants to think of others and give of ourselves, unless we have to do these things in order to stay alive ourselves according to the big book selfishness kills us, god makes that possible... ? well maybe he does and maybe he doesn't .. but i'll tell ya what.. there are alot of people dieing from starvation needlessly... so i ask you.. isn't that a very good example of how selfishness can kills... there are some gems in that book.
Member: siobhan
Location: washington
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 7:26:33 PM
good topic. when i first came to aa, three years ago, i did not think i was an alcoholic. i couldn't understand how an entire room of people could be happy AND sober. i couldn't get my head around the idea of never drinking again and being happy about it. but, i couldn't go on living, drinking the way i was . by the time i got out of treatment, i knew very well the extent of my disease and slowly came to terms with my new life. the best thing my sponsor ever told me was 'just don't drink RIGHT NOW'. i cannot worry about tomorrow, or later. i can barely handle the responsibility of today. and i am happy with my life, now. so i can say i am happy in my sobriety, for however long as it lasts. ODAAT
Member: ronie b
Location: md
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 8:34:01 PM
okay...hi all...i wanted a life free from a living hell....i got it by listening to the people within the fellowship...i didn't chase it as i did my alcohol, but i allowed myself the freedom for it to come to me....i take each day as it is and do my best to stay sober...i hope others can do the same...take care
Member: PattyK
Location: catskills
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 11:50:38 PM
Hi all, I'm Patty, A grateful recovering alcoholic. Let me just start out by saying some people seem to be missing the topic. I'm also a recovering Catholic, but we need to get over it sometime. Anyway, I guess what attracted me to the program was that people seemed so happy. That's what I wanted. Yes, I wanted to be sober, but I really wanted to be happy, even just for moments. I was miserable when I was drinking, I didn't know it then but the longer I stay sober, and attain some happiness, the more I realize how miserable I was. Someone else said it, in the beginning, I didn;t understand the peaceful easy attitudes of trhe people there, I too thought they were faking, or maybe some kind of cult or something, but sticking around has shown me that sobriety improves life, at least for this alcoholic. Thanks for letting me share, and thank you all for sharing, and can we please get past the religion stuff now? And, yes, who is Mark from NY? W
Member: Kathy F.
Location: Texas
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 12:10:46 AM
I'm Kathy, an alcoholic. A smile is the one clear memory I have from my first meeting. It belonged to the woman who agreed to meet me there after my call to the AA hotline. She looked so peaceful and kind that I figured she was not an alcoholic, but she was and she became my first sponsor. I wanted whatever she had, and eventually one day I was able to greet a newcomer with my own smile. On the matter of communion wine, the Big Book says that "Those having religious affiliations will find here nothing disturbing to their beliefs or ceremonies." In my experience with alcoholics who have issues about their religion, I have known a sponsor or other trusted AA member to suggest the name of an understanding church leader; and I have known cases where the troubled alcoholics's own minister, priest, etc. personally helped or referred the matter to one who could help. There is a Solution!
Member: Les
Location: San Diego
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 1:19:13 AM
I attended AA Meetings on regular basis for about six months while still drinking. Shortly after finally getting to a Meeting sober I decided to quite drinking forever. One month later I had another drink and as that whiskey went down my throat I admitted to my innermost self that I was powerless over alcohol and at that point became willing to go to any lengths to gain and maintain sobriety. I soon discovered that the lengths necessary where to take the Steps of AA in the order they are presented following the directions in the book Alcoholics Anonymous with the help of someone who went before me. Also, attend AA Meetings every day because I drank ever day and do my best to not drink between Meetings. At the time the idea of doing all that caused intense fear. I was told to pray for willingness. When I pointed out that I was an atheist I was told to act as if I believed and go ahead and pray. The first thing I prayed for, I suppose, was the courage to pray. Anyway, damned if it didn't work or at least it has worked for 5,930 days.
Member: BABE
Location:
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 1:19:41 AM
thanx for that..kathy.. i really like that,,"there is a solution"... and im so grateful im in the solution i guess i must have really ruffled some feathers of the abusive types here on the pot... as the daggers are just flyin at me from all these anonymous Posters .... it must really bum them out to know that it doesn't work on me.. im happy and lovin my life and the changes i made in me today... whoo hoo...
Member: kym n
Location: portland or
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 1:50:58 AM
i was so happy to find this meeting/ when i asked a woman to sponsor me she asked me what lengths i was willing to go to to STAY sober/ the desperation i had was so overwhelming that i agreed to anything/ today i know that everything that was suggested for me to do was not some new formula only to be used on me/ thousands have done so before me and i see it in every meeting that i attend/ i know what i came to this program to get and that was a life worth saving what i stay for and strive for is spirituality/ i want that serenity and special inner peace that comes from living the steps/ i want to be there for the miracles/ i want to be the one that reaches out my hand and gets the gift of taking another alcoholic through the big book and seeing the light come on when they realize that all the answers to their problems are answered somewhere in that awesome book/ today i am grateful for what god has given me and oh so grateful for what he has taken away/ thank you/ kym
Member: harry
Location: north carolina--waiting for the monster
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 7:10:32 AM
people dont look and certainly dont act happy at the meetings ive been to and ive been to thoushands. thats just brainwashing to believe they are happy, they are most all miserable, especially if they smoke cigies. i dont want a damn thing anybody in aa has i want what i have myself.
Member: aa
Location:
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 7:23:57 AM
Babe you are anonymous as it gets
Member: Dr. Bob's friend too
Location: Florida
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 7:58:41 AM
Hi All..I'm glad to see that this is just like a regular AA meeting...Everyone talks about whatever it is that they "relate to". I am not Catholic and don't care about religious dogma, but I thank the real alcoholics on this site that are attempting to carry the message; I am enjoying their comments. As for what I wanted in AA, it was not to hurt anymore. Thank God I didn't get what I deserved, as AA has given me a life second to none. I am sober and happy and most of all, free, to accept or reject everything that comes my way, with a clear mind and conscience. I am grateful to you all that you are here when I need you. I will be back. Thanks
Member: Joe P
Location: Chicago
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 11:36:01 AM
My name is Joe, and I am an alcoholic. “If you have decided you want what we have, and are willing to go to any lengths to get it, then you are ready to take certain steps”. What you had and have that I wanted and want is freedom from the compulsion to drink alcohol. To be able to live life without drinking. To be able to believe that I could get through a 24-hour period without alcohol. Then I saw that you all found some kind of power that allowed you to be happy without drinking, to have contented sobriety. You found a God that worked for you. That’s what you have that I want. And so I took those certain steps, and I received all that and more. Thank you for all your comments.
Member: Kat
Location:
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 11:39:19 AM
I went to a meeting last night and then came home and said to my husband, "Honey, I think I'm the happiest person in AA." And I asked him, "Do you think there's something wrong with me?" I absolutely LOVE the fact that I found the strength through God to walk through those doors to my very first meeting. I have been on a healing and spiritual journey for 13 years and yet kept hitting a brick wall as I tried to "white knuckle" my quitting drinking on my own. Each time I would find some excuse to drink. However, AA has given me the soul/heart foundation of everything I have learned in my healing that was once on a mental level. It seems like the missing piece in my puzzle and I am thrilled and in awe and wonder to have found it. And yet, last night, at least 3 or 4 people came up to me and said "oh those first timers, so excited... but just wait!" Wait for what? My life to get even better? I have a husband who adores me, two amazingly brilliant teenage sons, a career that is blossoming before my very eyes, a deeper relationship with God than I ever had before and complete and total sobriety. Why the hell can't I be happy? Yes, I love what I'm learning at AA, but there seems to be a pervasive sense of rehashing all the doom and gloom. Some people seem like they just can't shake that. In all my healing I have learned that what you think about you become. What you focus on you manifest. I only want to manifest joy and love, health and abundance for myself and others. Maybe I am a Pollyanna wearing my rose colored glasses, but from my perspective the view is glorious and I only pray that others can experience this true elation. Yes I know that there will be things that happen beyond my control and I will be shaken to my core. Believe me, I'm an expert in that as my dad died when I was 10 and my mother when I was 16. But I cannot worry about what might happen and I strive to stay in this precious moment. I pray that my attitude will rub off on others rather than the doom and gloom rubbing off on me. I pray that God will keep me humble so I don't ever think I'm "holier than thou" and I am so very grateful for another day to do God's will and live my life to the fullest. I pray for that for all of us.
Member: Leland
Location: SB
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 2:32:15 PM
Is there anything more sad than someone stalking an AA message board?
Member: day day day
Location: chain chain chain
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 4:42:16 PM
They are of the world, and speak they of the world, and sin waits at the door and would to have you, all the more reason to leave off with such a task as the world would have you bask, for there is no bask at last only task upon task and it'll never last; a tisk it a task it a green and yellow basket and all is well that ends well..
Member: klt
Location: usa
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 4:47:37 PM
I really like Kat's story. A successful AA should talk about his/her successes. I'd be careful about the "pink cloud" thing..where everything is great initially. Then life turns routine, you hit a bump and its back to drinking. That has happened to me more than once. After my last relapse, I had my back against the wall. Couldn't function with or without the alcohol. I was despondent. I then promised myself and my HP that I would stick with AA and work the program. I got a sponsor. I do 3-4 meetings a week. So far, so good. If you're doing good today, thank your HP and ask for another good day tomorrow.
Member: Stumpy
Location: Texas
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 5:45:21 PM
Bonjour, Kat. I was so happy to read your post today. My, things have gotten a lot better since your 'sponsor incident.' I am so very happy for you. That's fantastic. Don't worry about those that say 'just wait until she gets off that pink cloud.' They're probably among the many who have never gotten there. Just acknowledge that you understand that someday you will be off that pink cloud, but that will be the day when our Lord takes you up to Heaven on a golden cloud. Until then, enjoy the ride. God Bless You.
Member: .Joe B.
Location: Charleston,W.V.
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 7:49:47 PM
Hi gang, Joe B. here. This is ny third meeting on CYBER. I have been sober since 1Aug.78. It seems to me the meeting and members need to pay attention to the Traditions while the meeting is going on. Also, suggest members use their sponsors, Thanks......
Member: Lyne G.
Location: Rancho Santa Fe
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 8:07:11 PM
My name is Lyne and I'm an alcoholic. Good to be at a meeting today. Happy B-Day L-RAY! And welcome to those of you who are new to AA. This is the only good life I have ever known. You are HOME. You are SAFE. I beg you to stay. We tell you to keep coming back. I say, "Just Stay. Don't leave." Give this thing a chance. Thank you for a great topic--going to any lenght. I just got surgery last Wednesday and I can't go out probably for another week or so. I'm used to going to 3 meetings per week and I miss them. So, this is good. To participate in my recovery and listen to other sober friends talk about being sober. My soul needs it! Going to any lenght has meant for me, when I called AA on June 21, 1982, and they asked me if I wanted to go somewhere, to say yes. They took me to Detox, downtown. When they asked me to stay for the 10-day program. I said yes. When they suggested I go to a recovery home for alcoholic women, I said yes. When they told me to get a sponsor, I said yes. When they told me no dating for the first three months, I said yes. They told me that they didn't really care how I felt or what I thought, that I just needed to get the "job" done--show up early, pull up some chairs, put your $1 in the basket, clean up afterwards, talk to newcomers. It's been more than 21 years now. My beloved sponsor SherAli asked me to call her every Tuesday at 7:00 PM and I said yes. I am current with my sponsor. She knows what's going on with me. I call her before making decisions when I'm uncertain. She gives me directions and I say yes. Someone called me this morning to speak at their meeting and I said yes. I sponsor three wonderful ladies. I take the Steps of AA everyday to the best of my ability. I love AA. My sobriety date, June 22, 1982 is the most important detail to know about me--the day when I came to you, the day when the only good life I have ever known began. My prayer is that all of us get to keep the sobriety date that we have today for ever and ever. I thank you for mine.
Member: petersen m
Location: washington
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 9:08:45 PM
one; our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon aa unity. two; for our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority -a loving god as he may express himself in our group conscience. three; the only requirement for aa membership is a desire to stop drinking. four: each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or AA AS A WHOLE. five: EACH GROUP HAS BUT ONE PRIMARY PURPOSE, TO CARRY ITS MESSAGE TO THE ALCOHOLIC WHO STILL SUFFERS. ten: Alcoholics Annonymous has NO opinion on outside issues hence the aa name ought never be drawn into public controversy. twelve: Annonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions ever reminding us to place PRINCIPLES before personalities. Sorry--petersen, an alcoholic hi everyone. thanks to anne and daniel for not breaking tradition. i typed out a few that seemed to apply to some of the above controversy concerning religion, it was heartbreaking to read some of it. the spirit of AA is love, tolerance, acceptance, understanding and compassion. i sincerely hope that there wer no "brand new" "never ever exposed to aa" newcomers visiting the site, for some of the postings do greatly affect aa as a whole, i surely would have run if some of those were the first thing i ever saw in aa, and because aa is the only thing that saved me from myself- running away because of a bad experience surely would have killed me for nothing has ever worked to keep me sober exceptt aa. so when i share i try to ask myself- is what i'm about to say something that could hurt? am i angry? am i trying to vent? if i were a newcomer how would i take it? not to say we should'nt hide the truth or sugar coat anything for that would not be helpful either but we should not do harm, i go to some wonderful face to face meetings where such behaviour would warrant a person being asked to "please try a different meeting, we uphold our traditions here, or stay if you like, but harmful conduct as breaking tradition will not be tolerated." it is rt in our group conscience and said at the beginning of meetings. it is great. I am sorry that i shared nothing on the topic presented, i hope that some of you will find the principles of the program useful someday and will learn to live in the "greatest peace, partnership and brotherhood " with all no matter their spiritual or religious belief.thankyou i am grateful to the many of you who shared about sobriety- real sobriety. and thankyou to everyone else who reminded me of either where i came from or where i sure don't want to end up by not staying spiritually fit.
Member: SS
Location: Texas
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 10:54:28 PM
I'm dissappointed in the "online meeting",although I have read some good stuff. I too won't drink from the communual cup, #1 because it's alcohol #2 because of germs. People can be so mean spirited about things and just get carried away over a simple statement not meant to offend anyone. What attracted me to AA in the beginning was that these people knew how to stay sober and I didn't have a clue. They also were happy and I loved that as I was so miserable at first. I got happy fast because I wanted it so bad and 9 yrs.later I am still happy. It works if you let it and are willing to take a few simple suggestions. Anyone new to sobriety will probably be scared off by this poor example of an AA meeting. I think some of the folks that write in are just using this to sound off and be ugly. If any of you out there reading this are thinking of coming into the program please don't think this is typical of AA,it isn't!! I came to this meeting to see what it was like and if I should "suggest" to some of my sponsee's to do this when they can't get to enough meetings in a week. I won't recommend it to the newer ones as they don't need anymore negativity in their lives. I loved the letter from Robin. You go!
Member: Kat
Location:
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 11:32:35 PM
God bless you too Stumpy and everyone here. I addressed the "issue" with my sponsor in a very direct and assertive manner and it felt great to dare to risk conflict. There was a tremendous amount of learning going on in all directions. It felt great to work through an issue rather than run from it as I have done so often in my past. And to get back to the topic, I came to AA to finally take off the mask and stop pretending and be real. Yes, it's scary, but it's so worth it. I've spent my life trying to get everyone to like me and then I read "Women Who Run With the Wolves" by Clarissa Pinkola Estes and she said "If you live your life trying to please others, half the people will like you and half won't. And if you live your life according to your own truth, half the people will like you and half won't." So the way I look at it now is, if I have a conflict and look to God first and then confront it, there can be two possible outcomes; either there will be greater communication and understanding, or the other person winds up in the half that doesn't like me!! It's only change and it's all good. It has been said that the only one who likes change is a wet baby :) love & blessings to you all
Member: Kat
Location:
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 11:43:41 PM
By the way, Clarissa Pinkola Estes, was also hired to teach story-telling to the students at Columbine High School in Littleton Colorado, to help them heal after the massacre on April 20, 1999. There have been studies that show that every time you share and tell your story there is deep healing. I guess that's really what AA is all about. Healing blessings and sleep well my friends.
Member: Thank You Petersen M
Location:
Date: 9/15/2003
Time: 11:49:29 PM
thank you for carrying the AA message
Member: Susan
Location: West Michigan
Date: 9/16/2003
Time: 12:27:13 AM
What a great topic--I find myself asking "Do I truly want what AA members have?. I believe I do. Am I willing to go to any lengths to get it? After numerous relapses, I believe I am. I have elected to move my family and I in with my parents. I am not a spring chicken. I sleep in the living room. However, my family is supportive and the area is much, much better than the city I live in. I know I am taking my alcoholic self with me; however, I have been focusing on AA literature, the steps, and meetings since I've been here. It is hard living with approximately 10 people in one house; but my gut feeling (which I know is my Higher Power) is that my life is at stake. What is most important? My home or my life? My children or my home? I pray I can keep them all -- however, for me, first things first means staying sober one hour at a time, then one day at a time, and I have a much better chance of doing this living with my parents. I truly believe I am BEGINNING to be willing to go to any lengths to stay sober -- but I know I have a long way to go. Please keep me in your prayers.
Member: Ron L
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 9/16/2003
Time: 12:40:36 AM
To Johnson from Colorado, I don't really like to cross talk but here I am ready to answer your question. First I never had a mother dad or family as I was a childs welfare case living in one foster home after another. I am a half breed Indian and back 67 yrs ago that was not a thing to brag about. In one of my many homes I was beaten over the head at every turn I still have the scares, In another I was told Indians are not suppose to be smart in school, in another home I was paid for stealing bread, milk, and one of my jobs was to go check the garbage at the food store for any rotten food that was thrown out I was to bring that home and I ate it, when I came to A.A. I was 37 yrs old and it was there that I realized that as a kid I never once was kissed or hugged. I have a grade 6 education, I never knew any thing about the things you want me to talk about on my arrival. But Im going to tell you some thing. after I came here and was sober a few years I was offered a job with the Department of Health and Social Developemet as a drug and alcohol specialist,Going into northern schools and talking about alcohol. I then went from there to the Health Sciences Center one of the largest Hospitals in Canada working in the 28 day alcohol program, I got into the mining racket and after one year was made a supervisor, I ended my working career making $ 100,000 a year. Im sorry that I never arrived here a spiritual giant. but I came here a broken down man who became a boot legger drug pusher. I had five criminal charges to face the worste one being that I stabbed the hotel manager 3 times If you think that I came here to gain material things, please think again. I take no credit for the things that happened to me I know that when I offered myself to God things changed, I like what God built with my life and Im sorry if you don't approve. I have a wife,home,car and a truck, 8 handicap at the golf and country club I belong to, I go to 3-4 mgt. a week. I have spoke where there has been 3,500 members present, and I am a sponsor. I have love in my heart, and Johnson I still have only a grade six, but Im going to pay for you anyways.
Member: AnilG
Location: MtVernon,IL
Date: 9/16/2003
Time: 8:57:30 AM
I am an alcoholic what works? for me is the 12 steps everystep is well thought of begining with the desire to stop drinking and life becoming unmanagable with the understanding of HP and our character defects it keeps reminds us what we were and what we can be if we remain sober thanks toaa and alanon.
Member: Kat
Location:
Date: 9/16/2003
Time: 9:13:11 AM
Ron L - bravo... what a fabulous transformation through the power of God. Keep that love in your heart and forgive anyone who doesn't get that. You are suma cum lovely in my book!!
Member: Joe J
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Date: 9/16/2003
Time: 9:17:41 AM
Hi, Joe J, alchoholic. What I wanted was peace. What I wanted was to calm the storm in my head. What I want is to be able to live and behave like a "normal" human being, have healthy personal relationships, be content with myself and the world around me. When I was drinking, I was angry. Lots of people told me "Joe you're an angry young man" Well, as I aged the only part of that statement that held true was the ANGER. I was always pissed off at something. I always looked like I wanted to tear someone's head off. SOber 11 months now, and early into my sobriety I started to ask God to remove this anger in a daily prayer. Fantasies of killing or beating the crap out of someone are few. I feel alot more at peace with myself and the world around me. And this is all I want..........PS. For those of you who come on here to crosstalk, grow up. If you want to trash people, go to a chat room.
Member: to Ron L
Location: another trudger
Date: 9/16/2003
Time: 9:49:38 AM
Your share made my day. It is people like you who help me stay sober just one more day. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Member: Angel G.
Location: texas
Date: 9/16/2003
Time: 9:53:21 AM
I have had so many gifts in the program. The first gift was realizing that I could be one of these truly happy people I would see who were happy even when they weren't drinking. See I could stop drinking, but I couldn't stop drinking and be happy. Another gift was realizing that it was ok to have a brain that works differntly than other people's and to utilize the spiritual tools that AA offered me, while also becoming willing to do what my doctors told me to do. My brain healed, and is still healing. My Spirit began to burn with God's love. Next came productivity, and usefulness. With that came purpose and direction. With surrender and prayer came material gifts of financial security. I own a business that I love, and I am using the talents God gave me. I feel connected to my Higher Power at all times. The newest gift has been the gift of faith, and the return of beliefs I thought I'd lost. I am in recovery, and I am a Catholic, and I am so grateful to God to bringing me home. Angel
Member: Bridget
Location: Phoenix
Date: 9/16/2003
Time: 12:26:41 PM
September 16, 2003. This is a glorious day for me cause you see 18 months ago today I had my last drink. The road has been rocky in places but never as rocky as it was before I came here. Word of advice to new comers out there listen to old timers they have words of wisdom. I wish I would have. Will not go blow for blow with my ups and downs but just thought I would share my experience strength and hope. Thanks for listening and God Bless.
Member: Kerry M
Location: new orleans
Date: 9/16/2003
Time: 1:10:42 PM
Thanks for the alcoholics who are sharing their experience, strength and hope. I loved what Susan from West Michigan shared about her struggle and about how she was going to any lengths. I was blessed with a healthy dose of wilfulness so I have also struggled with staying sober ... usually for years at a time before I grow complacent and slip. Today I realize that often my relapses were avoidance of life on life's terms and I get to create drama by slipping and getting sober again. Today I am willing to forgo that and stay sober through the good and the bad times. Willingness has been a key for me. I know that if I am willing then I am starting in the right place. It's really all that God asks of me before we start the journey through any problem - willingness to do things differently, willingness to go to a meeting, to open up to my sponsor, to take the steps as needed. I have learned two basic things for myself - the first is that I am unable to stay sober by myself - and that life is undoubtedly more rich and fulfilling when I am sober. One more day. Thanks for letting me share.
Member: Johnson
Location: Colorado
Date: 9/16/2003
Time: 4:01:50 PM
Thanks for that RonL. It was nice indeed. I however am still much more interested in the spiritual gains than anything to do with house, wife, car, golf club membership, etc. In the end those things aren't going with any of us and are of little relevance. Besides there are some like myself that had cars, houses, wives, many memberships to many prestigious clubs, whatever else money could buy before, during, and after full-blown alcoholism reared its ugly head. The education thing I don't really see as relevant either as even though I have the most advanced eduaction possible, I am always learning, so what does that have to do with anything either. I doubt God is going to ask for with my MD or your 6th grade certificate. Maybe because I do what I do and I'm getting a little older I am pondering my own mortality even more than before, I don't know. Either way the point is simple, we are all equal in death and wife and belongings aren't going to be with me when I stand before the Creator on judgement day. I do see how some could confuse sobriety with getting things and I commend you on all your accomplishments, but the one that strikes a chord with me is the love in your heart that you profess. I hope and pray for you to my friend. May that love not only continue to grow, but manifest itself in ways none of us could ever envision.............Peace
Member: steveo h
Location: london
Date: 9/16/2003
Time: 4:08:21 PM
a willingness born of desperation is the one thing that got me sodriety, through the AA proramme i was given sobriety, the real gift "the man on page 18" gave me was that i no longer think as i did,and i know Gods will for me, try the ten commandments!
Member: Jan BB
Location: Paris, France
Date: 9/16/2003
Time: 4:14:01 PM
Hi everyone and good topic Harry. For me to go to any length was to finally surrender to not drinking and using, one sober day next to another sober day no matter what. My willingness grew out of the slow clairty what sobriety was offering. As I could see around me people who were truly happy, joyous and free of alcohol and drugs, the desire to go further, to push beyond the limited scope drinking and using gave me. My life still opens in sobriety, in ways I could have never imagined. Remaining teachable, one sober day next to another sober day, creates a life I never dreamed possible. ((Ron L.)), Bless you my friend, HOPE for ((Everyone))janbbparis@yahoo.com
Member: Anne S
Location: glasgow scotland
Date: 9/16/2003
Time: 5:26:44 PM
this is for Ron L,i ccame to this site for the first time ever on sunday and loved my h.p. even more than usual for allowing me the freedom to speak to other alkies on the other side of the world as i think it is an enormous priveledge but you ron just blew me away!!!!!you seem balanced happy and really really really contented.you are my example for today.get rid of the fear Anne,let go and let god,take it easy and keep it in the day.i am brand new this week to the net (thanks to my son for the computer)and this is my dream to learn from everyone good and bad.there are people who criticise everywhere but sometimes they are fantastic examples of how NOT to work a programme,yourself,how to work it well help others,share openly,qnd enjoy life a day at a time.thanks ron.thanks EVERYONE,and thanks aa.i love being sober and semi normalish.
Member: Rocco S
Location: Virginia
Date: 9/16/2003
Time: 8:51:34 PM
Rocco S, alcoholic here. The most important thing is that it works. Been in recovery 15 years today. I was fortunate enough to get this program 4 months after I turned 21. I honestly beleive today that I would not still be alive if it was not for this simple program.
Member: Dan
Location: NY.
Date: 9/17/2003
Time: 6:54:57 AM
Hi All Dan Alcoholic here. Good of you to pick this topic Harry. I came in beaten down crazy from alcohol and drugs. I did not care what you people had, all I waned was the chaos and insanity to go away. I had so much fear,anger,despair,resentments,guilt and shame. I had absolutely no self worth at all. I wanted the pain to stop without using.. I came and I stuck around for awhile and I Learned how to listen. I really did not get this program as they say this program got me. What I wanted all my life was release from the Bondage of Self. It was simple but by no means easy Just One Day At A Time. I keep coming and I keep kearning about myself and I try my best to help others God Bless All The TROLLS
Member: Judy F
Location: LA
Date: 9/17/2003
Time: 10:13:02 AM
What wouldn't I do to have found AA @21. How different my life would be. God Bless
Member: Susan A.
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
Date: 9/17/2003
Time: 4:11:59 PM
Hi All, I'm Susan and I'm an Alcoholic. Thanks for a good topic, and thanks Ron L., Beto, Bill, Lyne, etc who give back what was so freely given. You bring a warm smile to my face & heart. As for me - I didn't know what AA had, or what sobriety meant, or any of that stuff when I first was pushed into meetings; what I WANTED was to stop hurting so bad, for my mind to quit racing, and to quit doing things I felt so ashamed of. Flip side, I also wanted everyone to get off my back, to go away so I could drink like I wanted to, which was the ONLY cure I knew anymore (I did NOT want to stop drinking). At about the third meeting, something sank in; our speaker was a classy old black gentleman (about as opposite of me as you could get at the time) in a nice suit who spoke about doing the same horrible types of things I'd done, and felt the same shame, remorse, etc. He looked so happy with himself and his life, and talked about finding a new way to live that freed him from the obsession to drink. It clicked with me that I only knew how to live using a bottle and was terrified of anything else. He said he kept it simple - He asked God what to do, then he tried his best to do it. And he had three words he kept in a checkbook cover in his jacket's inner pocket - Restless, Irritable, Discontented - that he watched out for each day, because they would take him back to drinking. If he stayed in touch with God and worked his program of action, he didn't have to drink and he didn't have to feel those things. Well, I knew I HAD to drink, and I had ALWAYS felt those things. Right then, I WANTED what he had. I want to be sober, happy, contented. So, I tried to do what he said he'd done. Just like I try to do the good things I read about in what ya'll write here. You know what? It's worked for me too!, and it just keeps getting better, because I continue to WANT IT! I've got so much more than I originally asked for, and am especially grateful to be of use helping another to see they can find a solution, also. Thanks, All, for being here.
Member:
Location:
Date: 9/17/2003
Time: 4:33:38 PM
how sad all you people seem to think about is material gain equalling sobriety
Member: petersen m
Location: washington
Date: 9/17/2003
Time: 5:35:27 PM
thankyou to all of you who have experience strength and hope to share and do share it. what i saw at meetings that i wanted was to have the ease people around the tables seemed to have. being 'comfortable in my own skin', being able to handle life without trying to control everything or escape when it didnt work out my way,(life on lifes terms) i saw around me people who still had problems but didnt live in them instead looked for solutions. i saw people who were positive, who had seemed to find a little bit of peace and happiness. mind you not all of them were that way but i followed the ones that were cuz i wanted to find out how they got that way. they went to meetings, had sponsors, worked the steps, and worked with others and tried to apply the principles in their lives. life is not perfect, never will be, and thats ok today. it is not about money or anything material i dont think it is for alot of us, this thing is an inside job, thanks for letting me share, and thanks for sharing with me, glad to be sober one more day.
Member: Richard S.
Location: Shreveport LA
Date: 9/17/2003
Time: 9:49:43 PM
I am brand new to this. Chapter 5 is where my book was open before I turned the computer on though. I began drinking when I went into the Navy in 1977, and had not stopped until very recently except for short periods of time. When I was able to quit it was with the aid of the fellowship of a good church so I do understand the spiritual part as being a neccessity. But this time I needed some psychiatric help as well. My doctor said she would be drug and alcohol testing me each time that I came in for an appointment, so I decided if I must quit I must first get off of cigarettes. I found out from my social worker that a brand new veteran's home had opened up here in Shreveport that I could live at if I were discharged from the hospital to it, so I put myself into the hospital in order to do so. After 1 week in the hospital I have been able to get off the cigarettes ok and not craving the alcohol or drugs either. The home I have moved into has been a blessing as one of the staff members has introduced me to AA and taken me to meetings, and there is a nice local church that was involved with the home and I have become a member there as well. Richard S. Shreveport, LA
Member: BABE
Location: out from under the bridge
Date: 9/18/2003
Time: 12:55:03 AM
Hello just lurkin around to see if there is anybody i can disagree with... (gee wiz... there's no one!!!! help ! (WHAT'S HAPPENING TO ME.. AAHHHHH IM MELTING... AHHH...WHERE'S THE BRIDGE I LIVE UNDER...QUICK! I HAVE TO GET BACK TO THE TIRED OLD WAY I KNOW AND LOVE...
Member: BarbK
Location: NW
Date: 9/18/2003
Time: 3:20:04 AM
Hi Barb here, grateful alcoholic...thanks PetersonM for bringing this meeting back to what it supposed to be.....the topic at hand. My story is pretty simple.....the last time I drank I was so sick I thought I was dying....or wished I would because I felt so bad. I was sick and tired of feeling sick and tired and was willing to do anything to stay sober. I checked myself into rehab and it was the best thing I have ever done for myself, my family and the people who love me in my life. It was 21 days of structure, companionship with people who understood what I was going through, spirituality and lots of love. I will never forget it and use the tools to keep me working my program. Don't get me wrong, there was some hard times in there but I was and am still willing to do whatever it takes to stay clean and sober. Life is so much better now,....my thinking gets clearer and my heart gets fuller every day. Thanks everyone!!
Member: Dave
Location: Greensburg PA
Date: 9/18/2003
Time: 4:36:14 AM
Hello all. I'm Dave and I'm an alcoholic. I have been to meetings alot of places, and well, this is quite interesting. (as all are) The things that I wanted most when I got here (after the cars, money, house, job, and basically to have everythign go my way) was the serenity that I saw in my first real sponsor. He was cool headede and seemed to always know the "Next Right Thing" (I thought that he came up with that one. I listened to him, and started to pray to my HP (Any one will do so long as you believe) and he told me that all I had to do was Love him, be nice, and if I didn't know what to do, I could do nothing. Then he eventualy gave me a gut feeling that seemed to know the Next Right Thing, and I've found a small part of that serenity that I wanted/ want so badly. Nice to be sober today, Would be nicer yet to be able to slep, but this too shall pass.
Member: sandi
Location: southern hemisphere
Date: 9/18/2003
Time: 9:42:21 AM
What i wanted most of all from recovery was to have me back. to feel good about me like I vaguely remebered feeling when I was a kid. it's starting to happen, I'm getting a soul deep interest in me as I become more active in making choices. The irony is that as I develop conscious contact with me and HP, the more connected I become to the human race, and the more fulfilled I feel. God works thru people, thanks for your postings everyone.
Member: Ret N
Location: Visiting Poconos
Date: 9/18/2003
Time: 11:27:56 AM
Thanks Peterson M for your comments. I am a month sober on Saturday and certainly am disappointed in some comments on the board. Nice to have people bring the topic back into focus. I wanted a life free from the insanity I allowed into life from drinking. I have had periods of sobriety some long, some not. But I do want what AA members have when I hear them speak at meetings. My life has improved so much in the last 4 weeks, I could almost go into a manic phase. I try to keep balanced though, knowing the unbalance can lead me to go back out. What comes to my mind is "practicing these principles in all our affairs." Boy does that make my life better. Thanks Ron L for a wonderful summation of your life. I see nothing wrong with reaping rewards from living a clean and sober life. My needs are basic and simple at this moment but if good things come my way I don't think I'm going to ignore them. I'm grateful for all the opportunities given me in this program and spirituality is one of them. It's an ongoing process for me and one that allows me to learn and grow continually. Thanks for sharing everyone. Love to all. Ret
Member: RICHARD M
Location: SARASOTA , FLA.
Date: 9/18/2003
Time: 4:10:39 PM
hello,my name is richard ...i am an alcoholic.......my sobriety date is 12/28/1985...............i am very gratefull for not have had a drink since then......chapter 5 is excellent......however it is best if you read the first four chapters.........it is all about notputting the alcohol in our mouths..........after that there is alot more ........however it is outside of AA and youmust not drink in order to attain it,,,,,,,,love , peace and happiness to all........remember ..any lenghts means no more alcohol................for an alcoholic ,.that is really serious business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Member: PAULINE C
Location: ONTARIO CA
Date: 9/18/2003
Time: 7:51:03 PM
I'm an alcoholic and my nameis Pauline thank you to Paterson and Ron and the others who share on the topic I've been here before and was very dissapointed when I started to read the posts tonite It made me sad to think that things had deteorated so badly.when I first came to the doors all I knew for sure was that I finally felt like I belonged. I knew if I continued to drink I would die by my own hand or by someone elses. I had no choice but to do whatever I was told if I wanted to live. thank you for listening luv in AA Pauline
Member: Lance
Location: Pittsburgh Pa originally Cherry Hill NJ
Date: 9/18/2003
Time: 9:31:49 PM
Hello, My name is Lance and I am an alcoholic, I have had a relapse 2 times in the past 8 years...the two relapses have lasted one evening however they have been horrible...I had 5 years and 2 years and now that I have relapsed 31 days ago I feel like I am starting over...I stayed away from meetings plenty of times and recently have been very much involved the last 30 days attending 28 meetings....I really believe that meeting makers make it as I return to the rooms of AA and see the people that were there when I left and how much they have grown...It really sucks that I can ruin everything with 1 relapse and have to now explain all my actions to my family...I am 43 and now my wife has to go through the thoughts of my past relapse and AGAIN I am not trusted...I feel great after going to all these meetings the past month...the most I attended in so many days....I need to move on and not forget..But Darn if my wife does not bring things up NOW in my Face...It's HARD! Thanks for being here...1st time on this site
Member: Diane
Location: North Florida
Date: 9/19/2003
Time: 7:27:15 AM
Hi Everyone, I'm Diane, a real alcoholic. I enjoyed the topic and all the comments from other alcoholics..it is easy to pick out the sober ones. Ron L, your story touched me..I too am from Winnipeg, but I have been living in Florida for the past many years. You remind me of another man who touched my life so many years ago. He also had very little education and when I met him he was incarcerated at Stoney Mountain Penetentiary for life for murder that was committed when he was drinking. He was released and became a real example of the AA program and like you, he became a counsellor and helped many people to a life of sobriety. I will always remember his spirit! I came to AA to get the courts and my family off my back; I was a teenager and I came to AA in the late 60's when there really were no young people!! I became involved in the creation of the Young People's Group in Winnipeg along with several others. You have really brought me back to my roots today. After many years of sobriety and a move from Winnipeg to Florida, I decided to pick up a drink again. I figured that it would be easy to get back to AA if the drinking didn't work for me. It didn't, but it took me 13 1/2 years before I put together any time in sobriety again. I now am sober over 10 years in the program, but realize that it is much easier to stay sober than get sober. I am grateful for this meeting online because I have recently moved to an area in Northern Florida where there are not as many meetings as there were in South Florida and I am missing the daily meeting schedule. Bless you all for being here, just dismiss the rude, misplaced comments. They just go to show us that some, indeed, are much sicker than others. I am grateful for this meeting and all your comments. I will be back. Thanks.
Member: Anne S
Location: glasgow scotland
Date: 9/19/2003
Time: 8:30:21 AM
i dont think being sober is just about amassing pysical things but they are nice to have and after many years of being pysically and mentally destitute it is a good feeling to indulge occasionally.i lost my job this week(my employer drank the profits,,ironic huh?)and there are no more treats till i find another but its not important what counts is i dont want to drink.maybe i grew up when i wasnt looking!!!!!i hope and pray my ex boss finds this programme(i cant get her on the phone scares me what she is going thru)and i treasure my soberiety more than ever knowing what i know now,but i just felt like saying i work hard for everything i am and every thing i have.does that really make me a bad alcoholic today???love aa love being sober love me x x x x
Member: Kat
Location: Boston
Date: 9/19/2003
Time: 11:52:37 AM
I heard a guy at a meeting ask "Did you drink today? Did you murder anyone today?" and if the answer is "No" then it is a great day. (((Anne))) you are not a bad alcoholic. I love my life, my home, my clothes and my purpose. I worked for two years at a homeless shelter and I would come home and be thankful for my bed, my quilt, my journal, my pen, my kitty purring beside me, my toothbrush, and every blessing that I had. Abraham Lincoln once said "You cannot help the poor by becoming one of them." I want to make a lot of money for what it will enable me to do in the world. Yes, I can do things now in every day acts of kindness... but kindness alone cannot send a poor orphan to college. I want to someday have a foundation that will help orphans go to college. I was an orphan and had to put myself through college and only could go to state schools and work non-stop to support myself. I think it was Ghandi who said "happiness is wanting what you already have." I definitely want what I have. I have a clean and sober life filled with love, joy and the comforts of home. And I don't believe for one minute that it makes me a "bad alcoholic" May we all have a blessed, sober day filled with an abundance of joy and love. Anne - you dream job is only a breath away... I can feel it :) Kat
Member: Rod M
Location: Innisfail, Ab.
Date: 9/19/2003
Time: 2:02:04 PM
I love you Harry from North Carolina, thanks for sharing brother.
Member: yt
Location: usa
Date: 9/19/2003
Time: 6:53:08 PM
Lance, Ask your wife to try Al-Anon. If she's willing, it'll help her put your relapse in perspective and help her recovery. Al-Anon really helped my wife deal with life. Today I'm sober. We both go to our meetings and enjoy each other's company again.
Member: Harry K
Location: U.K
Date: 9/19/2003
Time: 9:29:53 PM
Hi folks, I'm back and totaly blown away by all the great posts! I chose the topic because I was reflecting on my life the other night and had such a feeling of gratitude for the life I now have and how it was through A.A that I was able to get it. My sobriety date is May 24th 1993. That was the first time I ever went to a meeting. My last drink and drug was the day before. I didn't come to AA to get sober, I didn't even think I had a problem! I came to AA only to bring some woman to the meeting. My motive was to get laid! I took her to the same meeting for 8 days hoping I would get laid afterwards and it didn't happen. On the 9th day she had left town and I went back to the meeting by myself, never to see or hear from her again. I must have sat in the rooms for about a month before I even heard "If you want what we have" mentioned. And let me say in south Florida where I got sober, every meeting began with someone reading "How it works" so I wasn't all there anyway. But I knew something was going on and though I hadn't a clue as to what it was, it kept me comming back. At first it was the smiles on peoples faces. It was the way in which people greated each other when they came in. I couldn't believe it was real, but I knew it wasn't phoney. I was attracted to this. Then I began to see that people just got on with life nomatter what the circumstances. Break-up of a marriage or relationship, loss of job or car or house or whatever. It didn't keep these people back from being happy and sober. And then the penny dropped for me. Thats what I wanted. I wanted to be able to be O.K with life independant of all the crap I once thought was so necessary to be happy. I wanted to be free from "myself" and my anger, false pride and petty hangups which made me a prisoner to mt sick head. I wanted to have real friendships and people who genuinly cared for me. I also wanted to be able to care for others as well. I wanted to be O.K with Harry. Something I was never able to do. But thats what I wanted and the willingness to "get it" came down to many things. I had to put away the booze and stay away from those around me who drank. I had to go to meetings every day (that was easy because I liked the meetings) getting a sponsor was a different story. I never liked asking for help and having to humble myself to ask someone to sponsor me was not an easy task, but I did. Then I had to listen to his subtle commands we call "suggestions". That wasn't easy either, but I did. I had to read the first 164 pages of our basic text so I had a reference and idea as to what we were all talking about. Someone earlier said they had the gift of desperation, and that was true for me. I didn't just admitt to myself that I was done but I had "internalised" it. I knew I was finished, I "Stood at the turning point" but I could only go forward into the unknown, I had to do everything differently to the way I was used to doing it. Thats what you had that I wanted, and thats what I had to do to get it. But what did I get? I got it all! A.A did not introduce me to GOD, but it taught me how to have a relationship with my GOD. This is not an equal relationship either. GOD's in charge of my life now, not me! I need to do the footwork but its really up to GOD as to what the results are. I have a method of self reflection and evaluation that I use daily. If I fall short of what I would have liked for myself, I pray that I do better the next day. If I'm happy with my behaviour that day, I give thanks and go to sleep. I often make mistakes and try to run the show again which enevitably brings me pain and confusion. I know I'm human so I am able to forgive myself. In learning to forgive myself, I don't need to judge others because they are also human. That saves me allot of grief. I'm responsible for myself today. I'm no longer the "victim" unless I choose to be. I no longer indulge in "self pity" so I rarely (if ever) choose to be a victim. I learned that in my 4th step. Being the victim sucks. Having said that I do run into people who take advantage of me. I'm not jesus so I can't always turn the other cheek. I try to learn from it and move on. I can't afford the resentment, justified or not. I remember "GOD's in charge". I have real friends today, the kind that I always wanted. And I've also learned how to be a friend. As for material gains? Yes, I have lots of those also. But I found by being responsible and honoring my commitments to people and dealing with people honestly in my work, those are some of the rewards. I know some are offended bt others needs for money or financial security but i'm not. I'd rather have it than not, but I don't judge people for wanting it. Who the hell am I to say what's right or wrong in what a person needs. If I place MY values on another persons programme or desires then I'm the one who gets hurt. They have a GOD also, and who am I to judge. I admitted a long time ago that my life was unmanagable. My life is still unmanagable so I wont try to manage anyone else's. My GOD runs my life, I'm just the footman. Thank you all for confirming what was important for me early on. Thank you all for sharing your experience, strength and hope. Thank you all for heping me to stay sober and keep reminding me that THIS is the real world. GOD bless you and once again, Thanks for letting me type!
Member: Rick P.
Location: Upstate NY
Date: 9/20/2003
Time: 10:09:10 AM
Hello People, My name is Rick, I'm an Alcoholic. I'm back in recovery for the upteenth time. Hopefully, I will get some helpful feedback on my questions on the topic. I think it is "Going to any lengths". So, here goes. My second marrige broke up 2 1/2 years ago. I was devistated. You guessed it. My wife couldn't stand my drinking. My life and life style were torn apart. I couldn't think straight. I quit my job of 15 years. Lost my home and car. That was the easy part. I also lost the love of my two daughters,friends, and family. To make a long story short, I wound up sober, in a homeless shelter. My time ran out there and I found myself living on the streets, sober and attending all the AA meetings there were within walking distance. I had only sober friends, some alcolic and some not. Before this I had completed rehab twice. I thought I had gone not to any, But all "Lengths". What could I have done differently? Where did I fail? Needless to say, after 6 months on the streets, nothing had gotten any better. After 6 months sober relapsed. After 2 or 3 days I checked back into rehab. I left there to return to the streets. I drank the same day. Guess I had the F#@*-its. A year and a half later, I'm sober again. I have a room with a very caring elderly lady. I'm sure I can go upwards and onwards from here, If I can only stay sober. Thank you for reading. I welcome emails. dawgrick@alcoholicsanonomus.org. Rick
Member: Chris H.
Location: Fla.
Date: 9/20/2003
Time: 2:33:48 PM
I'm CHris---I'm an alcoholic/adict/This has been a great meeting...I have gotten alot out of the posts...Thanks to those who have shared their experience. strength and hope. All I know is that when I first came into the rooms , I wanted the serenity I found there to flow to my life outside of the meetings. It has been a long jounrney with ALOT of ups and downs...but I am learning to put the past behind me and to keep moving...I am finally working the steps in a very serious way and it is paying off. My husband of 31 yrs. is finally accepting that I MUST be at meetings...I am finally making peace with my father who was my abuser and if I can keep my gratitude upmost in my mind , my depression abates..What I learn in the rooms keeps me focusing on the good and positive things of life, and teaches me lessons for living that I never got anywhere else. For that I am eternally greatful. Thanks to all who shared.
Member: Dennis
Location: PA
Date: 9/20/2003
Time: 11:11:28 PM
I am 7 months sober, and this site is one thing that helps keep me that way. Going to any length means to me "don't drink!" To not do something seems so simple, especially when we alcoholics know we're alergic to the stuff. But of course, it's not so easy. What I like about being sober is not having the feeling of impending doom, being "naturally" (instead of chemically induced) happy, and being trusted by those I love. The way I'm able to do it is through the grace of God, knowing there is a higher power, and asking that HP to take over my life and my will. With AA, I find I have a relationship with God now, and pray more, and more meaningfully. Before, I prayed for things I thought I wanted, and didn't listen for a reply. I no longer ask His help with the test in school or the problem with the job or to make the investment do well. What I ask is for Him to take over my life and will so I can do His will, and to take away my difficulties so those I may help can see His power, love, and way of life. I now have a 2-way relationship with Him, and recognize the answers to my prayers. The answer isn't always what I had hoped it would be, but it's the right thing. I think happiness is not having what you want, but wanting what you have. Rick, try some of these things. They may help. Harry K, thanks for the topic. I wish a sober 24 hours for myself and everybody else who needs and wants it.
Member: Bob K
Location: Az
Date: 9/21/2003
Time: 12:49:55 AM
Hi, Im Bob an alcoholic. Avery good topic indeed and one that has baffled me for some time. Why some of us get this thing and some don't. I myself didnt come here to stick around. All I wanted to do was get back with the family and was told as I was leaving that if I ever wanted to have anything to do with them again I had to do something about my drinking. The going to any lengths to get sobriety came along slowly as I trudged along with the fears and guilts that I brought with me. And then there are others that I have seen go out again after what I thought was a good sobriety and used again. I guess only God knows the answer to this mystery. Like the book says, cunning, baffling, powerful. I personally found a way to deal with my fears a guilts here in AA and am very gratefull for that.B Am no longer with the family and haven't been for some time but have a wonderful relationship with them. Thank you AA.