Member: Sheri F
Location: sunny, cool, Portland, OR
Date: 8/27/00
Time: 11:50:23 PM

Comments

Here AGAIN!!A thought for a topic.. Do we follow the program of attraction or are we all preacher's kids and sermonize.. (find that word, lol). I am finding a LOT of AA preacher's and I hate to say most of them are "oldtimers" that should know better.. A case of arguments instead of sharing.. Am I so far out of step? I realize that I am getting old.. BUT.. I firmly believe in ATTRACTION.. not "Thou Shalt" This is just one of my pet peeves.. if I would allow it to fester.. I could have a king sized resentment.. but since I hate amends.. I'll consider the source.. Change the topic.. I try not to be the 1st one here but my timing is off one more time.. story of my life.. ha ha. Love and prayers Sheri F


Member: Kat A
Location: Iowa
Date: 8/27/00
Time: 11:52:39 PM

Comments

Hi I'm Kat and I'm an alcoholic. Can we discuss alcoholism, recovery, and the family? My husband and I both sobered up almost 4 years ago and are happy to once again have relationships with our sibs and parents. Sometimes when an event that happened when we were still drinking comes up in conversation, family members get very uncomfortable and change the subject. When we try to discuss our recovery the same thing happens. Its as though they wish all the bad times to have been erased and that we have been instantly cured. I have tried to make some amends to my family but they have all said the same thing, "whats done, is done, lets not talk about it". How do I make them understand that I'm not cured, I'm recovering, and that part of that process has to be amends and talking about the ugly times.


Member: Sheri F
Location: Portland, OR
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 12:24:38 AM

Comments

Kat, Sheri here.. The only way I could make amends to my family is to continue on with my soberity.. My family would not discuss my disease.. I wanted so much for them to understand.. but over the YEARS the changes were obvious but their pride kept their mouths closed until their death beds.. then the comment was.. I don't know why you think you have to go to those meetings.. all you needed to do is not drink.. we haven't but you thought you knew better and made everyone's life hell.. I give you credit for the last 22 yrs.. you finally shaped up.. I am proud of you.. I took the good times with the family and just trudged the road of HAPPY trails..I refused to let them get me down.. just ignored them. Congrats on 4 yrs Keep it up!! Love and prayers... Sheri F slfrey@Yahoo.com


Member: Sheri F
Location: Portland, OR
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 12:34:47 AM

Comments

Kat, Sheri here.. The only way I could make amends to my family is to continue on with my soberity.. My family would not discuss my disease.. I wanted so much for them to understand.. but over the YEARS the changes were obvious but their pride kept their mouths closed until their death beds.. then the comment was.. I don't know why you think you have to go to those meetings.. all you needed to do is not drink.. we haven't but you thought you knew better and made everyone's life hell.. I give you credit for the last 22 yrs.. you finally shaped up.. I am proud of you.. I took the good times with the family and just trudged the road of HAPPY trails..I refused to let them get me down.. just ignored them. Congrats on 4 yrs Keep it up!! Love and prayers... Sheri F slfrey@Yahoo.com


Member: Corinne B., Alcoholic here, there & everywhere!!
Location: Camino, CA - Home to my Heart
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 1:02:08 AM

Comments

Kat, I went through that alot my first time around AA. What I forgot to realize, and have since realized in coming back again, is that I am the one following a Program to solve my alcohol problems, not them. I cannot expect them to want to get to that gut-level honesty we learn to get to in order to recover. My family will always be the "rug-sweepers" they are comfortable in being, and I cannot force them to accept my new way of communicating.

Once I have had the conversation with them that I must have in regards to Step 9, I'm done. I thank them for listening and for considering their forgiveness of me. To keep pressing on any further after that is to "rub it in" so to speak, adding salt to the wound; for chances are, they'll forgive, yet still feel the sting of my misdeed. That's where the slogan "Let Go & Let God" comes in handy, too. Otherwise, I'll have to keep on making amends for further injuring them by continuing to make them uncomfortable by wanting them to talk with me about things they really would rather just leave in the past, where they are more comfortable having it lie.

One of the things I learned, too, was that they have every right to want to cling to some of that stuff for their own self-preservation and protection from "the truth as I see it." Some folks are simply "constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves" or others, and it's not my place to fix or change that about them. They need that stuff for their very survival.

As for Sheri's first topic, when I offer up words of wisdom from the land of my opinions, I have wandered into that world of preaching, that's why it is so important I try to keep my sharing about my own experience, strength and hope, and NOT what I think about it. I fall far short of my goal from time to time, too, so thanks for bringing this up, as we all need these gentle reminders!


Member: Corinne Again
Location: Still Camino
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 1:05:15 AM

Comments

P.S. Kat, in Step 9, the best examples of amends I have ever heard is the very simple one of "In the past I have harmed you. What can I do to make things right?"


Member: Scott K.
Location:
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 1:14:54 AM

Comments

My name is Scott, and I am an alcoholic. I had some trouble with the Eighth and Ninth steps, myself. I was confused about whom to make ammends to and how to mend situations that seemed to have no monetary or other physical solution. One day an oldtimer explained to me-- or reminded me rather-- since I had placed my life in God's hands it would be logical to ask Him to take care of these confusions. I subjected each problem to my favorite prayer, "God, I have no idea what to do in this situation, please fix it so I Know." After that I found myself in the position to take care of many of those ammends. I also found sometimes I couldn't dictate the terms of the ammends. Some folks would say, "forget about it," and I would feel guilty, like I really didn't make the ammends. But it was really the action of step nine I needed -- it was the going to the people I wronged, admitting my wrong, and expressing my desire to mend the situation that was important. Whatever the other person involved decided to do with it after that I couldn't control. Stay well.


Member: Michael B.
Location: AZ
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 1:31:19 AM

Comments

Hi! My name is Michael, and I am a recovering alcoholic and addict, sober today only by the Grace of God and the fellowship. Welcome to any newcomers! Thanks everyone for sharing!

There have been innumerable obstacles preventing a healthy reconciliation with my family, since I first became sober years ago. Not only do I have a brother who is struggling in recovery, but I have a family that is clearly dysfunctional due to a long history of alcoholism and alcoholic behavior.

Most problematic for me is that my parents wish to reestablish a genuine relationship with me based on the previous unhealthy dynamic that existed when I was an active alcoholic. This has been heart-wrenching for me, because they simply don't know how and refuse to do otherwise. And I simply cannot return to that, without threatening my own well-being.

In other words, they refuse to address their own problems adequately, and this is further complicated by the fact that serious health problems have prevented me from taking a more active role in, at least, mitigating this dispairing mess. Thank God for AA.


Member: Eric  J.
Location: Northern California
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 4:39:02 AM

Comments

My name is Eric, and I am an alcoholic. I also have found that there is no way of making some of my family members care one way or another about alcoholism or recovery.

Some time ago, my sponcer reminded me that sobriety is "an inside job," and that God is in charge of my siblings and what they think. The self centered part of me would like them to notice how well I am doing compared to when I was drinking. Perhaps they do, and cannot let me know it.

I am one of those rare people who still goes to 5 or 6 meetings a week even though I have been sober over 19 years. I admit that sometimes I do sound "preachy," but when I am doing badly, I try to remember to talk down to a more realistic level. This narrows the gap between what I say at meetings, and what I actually do in real life.

It is tempting to continue, and make what I have to say really long, but I am in a pious mood, and will, no doubt, start pitching steps.

If you don't take the first drink, you won't get drunk. You only have to stay sober one day at a time. And any idiot can stay sober for 24 hours.


Member: Joe A.   DOS 2-19-71
Location: Portland, OR
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 4:51:44 AM

Comments

Hi, everyone, Joe A. of sunny and cool Portland back again.

Making amends is not all that complicated, IMO. For the average alcoholic, the words "I'm sorry" are as automatic and meaningless as a burp after chug-a-lugging a bottle of beer. If that is the best you can do, why waste your time and that of the other person?

If, however, you have changed a great deal because of the AA program and can go to someone and say, "I'm sorry. I wish these things hadn't happened, and with God's help, they will not happen again," THAT is the amends.

It is not possible for me to turn back the hands of the clock and re-live a single moment of my life. I cannot un-do that which was done. The real amends is not re-doing those things.

A word about "forgiveness": I do not have to forgive you unless I have first condemned you. If I condemn you or anyone, whose sense of values am I using? I wasn't born with any of that, it was educated into me as I was growing up. If I condemn you, me, or anyone else, that is a case of my old ideas rearing their ugly heads and taking control of my life again.

Here is another very important area where the principle of acceptance helps. To expect better conduct from someone than they are capable of performing is unrealistic. Just allow them to be who and what they are without any attempt on my part to interfere. If I DO try to interfere, I am making demands. (See page 76 of the 12x12 for insight on the results of making demands.)

Love to all from Portland, where we may have already experienced all the hot, hot weather we will have this year. Can you believe that Labor Day is only a week off? Time flies when you are having a good life.

In three more weeks, my belly-button will be 72 years old. There is no way I can tell if AA has added any years to my life. It most assuredly has added a whole lot of life to my years. That is why I call myself a gratefully recoverING alcoholic. (Until I am perfect, the process of evolution goes on and I am "ing" not "ed".)


Member: Carol C.
Location: New Jersey
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 6:49:58 AM

Comments

Hi Carol Alcoholic!

What an excellent topic! I struggle with this. My family is still active. They are quick to say you didn't drink that bad. I need to remember my last drunk because with them feeding the denial of the discease, it could be easy to fall back into it. I have been sober 9 years and still have a hard time being around my family. They even bring booze to my home cause they know it's not there. I can get very resentful and have to remember I am dealing with people in the middle of alcoholism. Thank God I have a sober husband. Alot of times he helps remind me how lucky I am not to be in the middle of their craziness.

Have a great week.


Member: Kim S.
Location: Michigan
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 7:51:56 AM

Comments

Hi all! (((((HUGS))))) I am an alcoholic named Kim. Family & this disease...oh boy, what a topic. It is called a family disease, but the only one I can do anything about is me. My best amends to siblings & parents is to NOT act like the a** I used to be. We all grew up in the same house, learned the same behaviors, were treated the same way...the big difference is that I am learning to change those things & they are not. They do not know how to discuss the past or present...they don't know how to put their feelings into words...we weren't taught that. I have to remember that they are who they are & love them anyway. My sponsor always tells me that... 'I may be the only Big Book someone else reads'...I try to remember that when dealing with family members. They may not want to (or know how to) discuss alcoholism & recovery, but by example, I can hope they learn the same lessons I have. This did not come to me in a flash, I tried to talk to them & (as with most lessons) it took many bumps into the same brick wall before I learned to 'show them', not try to tell them. Another thing my sponsor says frequently...'show me, don't tell me'. My HP, my sponsor, these steps, & all the people of the fellowship haved saved my life & given me more gifts that I could possibly write here or ever repay, so I try to give back whenever, wherever, & however I can. Thanx for letting me share. Good hope to all who venture here.


Member: richard m
Location: sarasota, fla...
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 8:57:21 AM

Comments

hello my name is richard m .i a am an alcoholic !!! I am a young old timer .alomost 15 yrs.dec 28, 1985.......the temptation to preachin aa is just another character defect.......we agreed to practise the program as a guide line , which is the practiseing the 12 steps and traditions and teaching the 12 steps........of course in doing 12 step work , we may follow what works ......how ever the sickest among us like to try and 12 step the whole group !!!!at one time .......in the words of a famous soul !illigitum , non carborundum , est......do not let the bastards grind you down !!!!!love , peace and happiness !!!


Member: Deb K.
Location: West Kootenays
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 9:32:42 AM

Comments

Deb K., I am an alcholic. Great topics! I am fortunate, my Father came into the program when I was fifteen, my sister when I was in my late twenties and then I entered in my thirties and my youngest brother came in, though he was one of the more of an intellectual type and he just could not make it "simple". He took his life on his thirtieth birthday. My family knew and understood about amends so I was very fortunate. As for "preaching" in the program, I really like what it says after How It Works, pg. 60 & 61, about being the director. I must for myself read that and ask myself where I am in that. I find that I really try to "save" the person the grief by telling them my way of doing the program...same as with my girls, been there done it and this is how you avoid it... I have to remind me that it is thier life and that they have to experience their lessons the way they do to learn. It is very easy for me to slip into the old ideas..director/preacher mode. Progress, not perfection... I like step 9 and 10 they were put there for a very good reason... Another 24 to us all...


Member: Karen
Location: Newtown, PA
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 10:24:40 AM

Comments

Hi everyone, my name is Karen and I'm an alcoholic. I've been sober since January 1983. I had just celebrated my 19th birthday when I go sober and much of what happened prior to that was considered teenager garbage, though absolutely noone in my family denied or denies my problem with alcohol. I'm also one of those lucky few who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders that have remained sober. My first bout of depression hit when I was 10 due to lots of family problems, death, stroke, etc., plus my own emotional and physical makeup. Lots of people involved, lots of different ways of trying to cope, lots of hurt. But some families just stick it out. Granted my drinking lasted only four years, but it was just a symptom of my mental state. After all these years, I can still act like a crazy alcoholic, granted the degree of destruction being much smaller...except within myself. I've developed over the years a pretty strict set of standards by which to live and THAT is the measure of my happiness. Am I living within my limits? Emotionally, physically, financially. I'm convinced that there will always be problems to deal with when you have people in your life, the question for me is can I be true to myself while trying to love and care for others.


Member: Barry
Location: London
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 1:46:45 PM

Comments

err, i'm not sure whether this is the right forum and indeed i'm not sure if i should be here or not. I'm 30, live in London, have been a broker for 15 years and drinking/partying has been 'part of my job' for all those years. Recently i have been questioning the bodily damage it must be causing but more than that i have never, NEVER, been able to walk away from more than 2 drinks. I drink til' i drop. usually 3 or 4 times a week. Anyway, my reason for the message is that I am looking to drastically reduce alcohol intake (is this a cop out?. I need to evaluate wheter i have 'a problem' or whether i can cut back. I mainly drink for free as my company finances it which is another problem. I love my lifestyle but have a craving not to act like an ass whien i'm drunk. Am i in the right forum?


Member: aaron w.
Location: somerset, nj
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 2:25:35 PM

Comments

hi family, my name is aaron and i am an alcolholic. Kat, that is good topic the family and making amends. i have been sober 8 1/2 years and making amends to the family is not easy.there are certain members i dare not talk recovery to them at this time. you see, after 8 years they still have reservations about me. so they don't want to hear nothing right now! my amends to them are not in words it's only in my actions. when a family menber turn away from me, when i try and make amends i just stop immediately because it is not the time. to some family members your walk is more important than words. thier memories of your drinking days are still too painful for them to talk about. especially if they have'nt gotten any treatment. they need treatment too. i must remember amends are made when it does'nt injury or hurt others. thanks for letting me share.


Member: Katie N
Location: Sunny California
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 2:46:26 PM

Comments

Katie here, grateful alcoholic. This is a topic that I think of often especially over at the Coffee Pot. Where personalities fly daily. I was 12 stepped into the program, I realize that, that doesn't happen alot in AA anymore. At least not the way they did it in the book. I was introduced to a woman at the first meeting I went to who not only TOLD me she was my sponsor, but took me to detox and showed me by her example. She stayed with me thru the whole detox, thaT this is a program of attraction. Why would I have stayed if I thought it didn't matter? Why would I have fought so hard to come back from the brink of insanity if I thought all I would find was more condemnation and finger pointing. I wouldn't have. What this beautiful woman with 25 years of walking her talk showed me was unconditional love and acceptance( something to me unheard of )she showed me selflessness and humility and ODAT as she in turn stayed out of self long enough to stay sober one more day.. I in turn as I walk thru sobriety try to emulate those qualities. My sponsor and the people I respect and want what they have are the people with love and humility in their hearts. They are the attraction for me now, as I know no other way..I would not want what SOME have, thats my choice. Thats OK today..Today I let my HP be the guide and he inevitable leads me in the right direction...BLESSINGS TO AL.........Katie KNOW GOD, KNOW PEACE NO GOD, NO PEACE


Member: Chad Massey
Location: Ontario Canada
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 3:19:53 PM

Comments

Hi Folks, Chad here and I have been sober since August 24 or a whopping four days! I think that i am probably an alchoholic of the worst order because I have often drank by myself...in that i live alone. At the age of 46 I have a great job, fabulous income and a loving partner (even though she lives 3 hours away) and frankly am sick of and tired of being sick and tired. I took my first drink at the age of 13 and it felt like i just shook hands with a new friend. I liked the way it tasted, the way it made me feel and the way in which i would become inhibited. I found your site by accident and am so thankful that you are out there. This is my second real attempt at quiting for I am finally being true to my ownself. For if I do not suceed I know it where it will lead. Just wanted to share this with you folks. Thanks for being there.


Member: Katie N
Location: Still sober in California
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 3:37:34 PM

Comments

Katie grateful alcoholic here. Just had something to say on the other topic. About the family. I sat in a hospital Sat morning holding my mothers hand. She went into a coma Fri nite. I held her hand and looked at her and said out loud. "Dont die now you crazy bitch, I need to do an ammends to you and I'm not on that step yet." My mom was my abuser as a child and she did some attrocious things to this little girl. I have come to understand this was not my fault and mostly not hers fault either. There came a time in my 20's and 30's where we switched roles and I became the abuser. I know that ammends are not because we want some kind of absolution from the person but more so we can own what we did and forgive ourselves..What if she dies is the question I ask myself right now. The doctors seem to think she is comming out of the coma and I am grateful, but should I be.. She suffers from the disease and refuses help...She suffers greatly I can see from her own conscience as well and drink buckets to drowned it out..Am I selfish wanting her to come back so I can ease myself.....Wow, can't believe I said all this. I guess my contribution to this topic is MORE questions. Blessings to us all for another sober 24hours. Thanks for both topics Kat and Sheri...Katie


Member: Ric
Location:
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 3:49:39 PM

Comments

To Barry from London,

One sign of alcohol dependence is building a tolerance to the substance. When you first started drinking you achieved a certain feeling from one or two drinks. After a period of time, the body builds a tolerance and that same feeling can come only from consuming more alcohol.

Another sign of dependence is not being able to moderate your drinking. Although some people are able to stop after one or two drinks, you are not. It is important to recognize that every person is an individual. As an individual, you are unable to stop drinking. The fact that your company provides it free of charge is relevant because of the accessibility of the substance.

One last thing. Alcohol abuse is more or less defined by the negative impact alcohol has on your social, business or personal life. If you feel like you are acting inappropriately, then you probably are abusing alcohol as well. Just evaluate the good things that alcohol does for you (good feelings, relaxation) against the negative things (bodily harm, reduced mental capabilities, "acting like an ass"). Do the math, and figure out if this is really a behavior you wish to continue. Like most of us, you may find that alcohol just isn't for you.

It would be nice if you could "moderate" your drinking. However, you may waste a lot of valuable time trying to achieve that goal.

Your best course of action - especially if you fear physical problems from your drinking - is to abstain from alcohol. If/when you do make this decision, it is important to get support from a local AA group.

I wish you the best.


Member: Rick M
Location: Texas
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 3:50:11 PM

Comments

To Barry from London,

One sign of alcohol dependence is building a tolerance to the substance. When you first started drinking you achieved a certain feeling from one or two drinks. After a period of time, the body builds a tolerance and that same feeling can come only from consuming more alcohol.

Another sign of dependence is not being able to moderate your drinking. Although some people are able to stop after one or two drinks, you are not. It is important to recognize that every person is an individual. As an individual, you are unable to stop drinking. The fact that your company provides it free of charge is relevant because of the accessibility of the substance.

One last thing. Alcohol abuse is more or less defined by the negative impact alcohol has on your social, business or personal life. If you feel like you are acting inappropriately, then you probably are abusing alcohol as well. Just evaluate the good things that alcohol does for you (good feelings, relaxation) against the negative things (bodily harm, reduced mental capabilities, "acting like an ass"). Do the math, and figure out if this is really a behavior you wish to continue. Like most of us, you may find that alcohol just isn't for you.

It would be nice if you could "moderate" your drinking. However, you may waste a lot of valuable time trying to achieve that goal.

Your best course of action - especially if you fear physical problems from your drinking - is to abstain from alcohol. If/when you do make this decision, it is important to get support from a local AA group.

I wish you the best.


Member: Ray H.
Location: Niagara Falls, NY
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 4:22:05 PM

Comments

Hi All, Ray A Very Gratefull Recovering Alcoholic.

To Barry In London: I am also one of those who can't have just one or two. Just Like almost all in this fellowship are. Do I think your in the right forum, Yes. But is it my place to tell you? , NO. Only you can decide. I will say that in the Big Book, It discribes alcoholism as the manifestation of an allergy. That after we have that first one we can't stop. Sound Familar? Stick around for a while and see. Now on to the topics

Well the topics today are very relevant because I am working on a few amends, and one of the ways I've been doing it is to show how the program has assisted me in becoming a better person. I think that fallls into the attraction area as well. Many of the people I had caused problems for are no longer in my life, in the area, or even contactable. Because of the disease we suffer from I can't remember them all. I just know that when I was drinking, owning a bar, I had the opportunity to affect many people, even without them knowing it. For that I am sorry and when I do find the opportunity arise I do make amends.

One of the things I saw in the big book highlights about attraction and amends. It allides to the spritual lifestyle and how others can percieve it. I know that some of my amends have been in traeting my co-workers, family and friends in a better fashion. I help people more and in turn ASK FOR help more often. I would never do that in the past, I was the king.

Well I only shared a little of what was on my mind about these two topics but have to go, first day of school in 20 years. And I owe it all to AA.

Thanks for letting me share


Member: Derek B.
Location: Manchester  U.K.
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 4:23:40 PM

Comments

I was at a meeting the other night here in sunny Manchester, England(Ha!, I wish) and it dawned on me afterwards that I had no compulsion to share. Not only that I was able to listen more attentively. Had I shared I truly believe that God would have been talking through me; the end result therefore being, I suspect, an absence of what is my worst character defect - self seeking - and no preachy business brought most often by my worst character defect. Thank you all for being there for me, both, to those of you who have shared but most important of all to those of you who have listened to me from your heart.


Member: Mark B
Location: Brighton, United Kingdom
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 4:27:35 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Mark and I'm a recovering alcoholic. Yes,in my year in AA (I am 5 months sober) I have found that a lot of old timers will preach and tell me what to do. What I do is I stick with the winners, if I find someone's share interesting then I will go up to them after the meeting and ask them about it. If anyone comes up to me afterwards and says "you don't want to do it like that, you want to do it like this" then I get away from them as quickly as possible and try to speak to someone who will share with me his/ her experience, strength and hope. This is the only way it can work, and in any case anyone who feels the need to tell others what to do cannot be happy themselves and is certainly not working the program. I England we call them "two steppers". It's ironic, though, in sharing this I might be acused of the same thing, of sharing my opinions instead of ES&H, but then that is the discussion topic. Today I have not had a drink, so today is a good day. Much that is bad has happened to me in the last two and a half weeks, culminating in my loosing my job and ending up in Hospital with serious cuts following a montain bike accident. However, during this time I have been to at least a meeting every day, staying close to AA and to God, and despite it all I have come out sober and happy. All the s**t that has happened to me recently and yet I remain happy and poitive about the future in all walks of life and all this is due to the Fellowship and Program of AA and I really am eternally grateful. I did my first chair on Friday at my home group and it was a learning experience. One old timer laid into me because I used obscene words such as "therapy" and "dysfunctional family". I kept telling myself "let it go" but in the end I had a pop at him just before the "serenity" prayer!! But I can learn from this, I am getting better at letting go and channelling my anger and resentments and I need to continue to do so, Thankyou to everyone out there in this wonderful fellowship for keeping me sober today, stick with the winners and your HP


Member: Barry
Location: London
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 4:50:36 PM

Comments

Ric from Texas. Thanks for the advice. I think I could be in a dangerous situation, the 'it won't happen to me' syndrome. I don't feel ill, I don't drink at home, I am successful, young and happy BUT with no dependents, no wife (thats not why i'm happy!). I am concerned that my Granfather had everything he wanted, drank every day, hit on my mums family and died with nothing. My mother (Irish) always told me and my siblings that we are 'serving our aprentiship to become alcoholics'. I just don't won't alcohol to bite me in the ass when i have people around me I care for. I hear what you say on Moderation. One month ago I recently gave up smoking after 15 years. This was hard and i'm still working on it day by day. Maybe I need to set small goals and say 'tonight I will drink slowly'. A little difficult when your surrounded by brokers with a thirst! I'm looking for a miracle cure without impacting my lifestyle and I fear this is not available at the local drugstore! Maybe I just need to talk about it a little more.

Thanks for listening me drivel on. The markets are closed here in London due to Bank Holiday and I have already resisted going large tonight by ignoring phone calls..


Member: Mark B
Location: Brighton, United Kingdom
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 7:37:35 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Mark and I'm an alcoholic, Barry,have you tried to give up smoking before by cutting down and then found that you just go back to what you were smoking beforehand. What you have done in giving up smoking and then fighting it a day at a time is excatly the AA philosophy with regards to drinking. If I say that I will never have a drink for the rest of my life then that would be an impossible goal. But if I say that I will not have a drink today or maybe even for the next hour or minute then the minutes, hours and days will eventually extend for the rest of my life and I will die sober. Sorry to be severe, but do you want to end up like your Grandfather? Alcoholism (and I am not saying that you are an Alcoholic, only you can know that) is a progressive illness and I, like you, was in a well paid job with a nice home but through my drinking I lost my job, my home, my sanity and very nearly my life. Don't f**k around with this mate, this is life or death. Now, 5 months sober, I have a job, a nice home lots of very good and supportive friends in AA and outside and most importantly, most of the time I have peace of mind. Do you really need those friends of yours who are on the phone to you trying to get you to drink with them. It seems to me that they are not real friends at all. A real friend would be concerned about your drinking and its consequences. I really do hope that you find a solution to your problem. If you do want to contact AA then you will find the number in the phone book. You will be able to talk to someone with whom you might identify, and if you go to a meeting all you will find there is love, friendship and support. I am going to finish by quoting to you part of the "Big Book" of AA. Its is known as "the promises" and it is what I hope to achieve by following the AA program of recovery; "If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will loose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realise that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves. Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us-sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialise if we work for them." Made my spine tingle writing that. Mate, I do send you my very best wishes, and thankyou for starting my current day of sobriety (it is now 0:30 am) on the right note. Mark


Member: Rick M
Location: Texas
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 7:45:25 PM

Comments

To Barry from London,

It sounds like you are reevaluating your life in a couple of areas. Giving up smoking is a difficult thing to do. Yet we only need to look at the adverse effects it has on us to realize how much better off we are without it.

Now you are looking at your alcohol consumption. I want to encourage you in your evaluation. Life is about growth. All of us have habits that we wish we would not have developed. Habits are formed over long periods of time. Recovering from the damage of these habits takes even longer. The important thing to remember is this: You only have to focus on one day at a time - today. You only have to stay sober today. Don't fret over yesterday. Don't worry about tomorrow or you may become overwhelmed. Pray and focus on staying sober today!

There are many things that the AA program helps us learn. I hope that you will investigate a chapter near you to receive the support you need.

It sounds like you want to try and moderate your drinking rather than abstain. I can understand that. That's a dream (illusion?) that probably most of us had at one point. Personally, I actually tracked my alcohol consumption for over a year while I tried to decide if I really had a problem and needed help. What I found showed me a cycle. I would slowly increase my drinking over a period of time until I realized how it was negatively impacting my life. I would then quit drinking altogether. I would then remain abstinent until I decided that I could control myself and drink moderately. This time, it would be different.

The cycle would then begin again. I saw that happen three to four times during the period that I monitored it. I desperately wanted to feel like I was in control and did not have a problem. We call that kind of thinking denial.

I can't say that all of this is the same for you. I can only say that this is what my experience has been.

Again, I sincerely wish you the best.


Member: Gerard Groote
Location:
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 8:33:10 PM

Comments

Knowing therefore; that you are not getting any younger: and that thou shalt soon go hence and be no more, and in that day it will not look so much attractive as before; thou wouldest do well, to take a moment of silence to remember why we are here;...For very quickly there shall be an end of thee here; look what will become of thee in another world. To-day man is; and to-morrow he appeareth not. And when he is taken away from the eyes, quickly also he passeth out of mind.

O dulness and hardness of man's heart, which thinketh only of the present, and doth not rather care for what is to come; Thou oughtest to order thyself in ever act and thought, as if today thou wert on the point to die.

Blessed is he that always hath the hour of his death before his eyes, and daily prepareth himself to die. When that last hour shall come, thou wilt begin to have a far different opinion of thy whole life that is past.

How wise and happy is he that now laboureth to be such an one in his life, as he wisheth to be found at his death.

Now, time is very precious; now are the days of salvation; now is the acceptable time. How often hast thou heard them saying: That man hath fallen by the sword; that man hath been drowned; that, by falling from a height hath broken his neck; that man died while eating; that hath come to his end while playing. One perished by fire, another by the steel, another of the plague, another at the hands of robbers; and thus death is the end of all, and man's life suddenly passeth away like a shadow...

As for a program of attraction, remember that beauty is fleeting and charme is deceptive but a woman that fears the Lord is worthy to be praised.


Member: Kevin m
Location: Stockton, Ca
Date: 8/28/00
Time: 8:48:30 PM

Comments

My name is kevin and i am an alcoholic

Great posts!!!!!!!.... Barry if you want to drink..... drink... try some controled drinking... try drinking and stopping abruptly... i f you can drink like a gentleman my hat is off to you.. if you cannot a local aa meeting might be a good place to start... aa is not a temperance society.... we take nobody's booze away.... those who quit one day at a time do so on a voluntary baisis.... i went to my first meeting expecting the group to "TELL" me to stop drinking "FOREVER" insted they shared with me that only i could decide if alcohol was a major problem for me.... one member even suggested that i drink some more if i was not convinced i had a problem... man was i pissed i wanted to start an argument i could win.... instead..... i was shown a non-combative, easy solution.... try it you might like it.... the family afterwards.... no wonder there is a full chapter devoted to this topic in the book... my dad and all 4 of my brothers are sober members of aa.... we have all learned many lessons along the way..... we have found that we are too close to each other to get involved in each others programs...... this lesson was learned the hard way believe me..... so now when we catch each other treading into an area that is uncomfortable... we use the tag line" do you have a sponsor?... mabey you should talk to him... we all get a laugh out of this and it is our way to allow each other the space necessary to live and let live.... as to amends..... mine were all very general as respects my family... i shared that i did many things i was not proud of, and i was endevoring to live a much better life and i intended to demonstrate this new way of living each and every day... to a person they were all very accepting and non-judgemental.. well i've gone on too long again... thanks to all here who help me every day... let's make a fantastic 24!


Member: Leslie R
Location: Texas
Date: 8/29/00
Time: 12:13:08 AM

Comments

On the topic of family. I come from a really back woods pill popping, fighting, car stealing, and drinking bunch. My father died about two weeks ago of cancer. But one could say after attending the funeral he died an alcoholic death. I was the only child of three to attend the funeral not even his wife, my insane mother, attended. I have made amends to all of these people however none of them have changed. I have been the one who has changed. Six years ago I made amends to my alcoholic father who kind of shrugged it off by saying, "Ah you did ok considering the way you were raised." And for the next six years as part of my amends I have participated in his life and have allowed him to participate in mine. Which meant allowing him to go on fishing trips really drunk and be an unhappy lonely, unemployed person who lived with his father because he didn't want to work etc. My amends to him wasn't a big dramatic I am sorry or Dad let's help you change now. It was a simple hey I am sorry I have done these things if I had to do it over again I would have never done them especially if I would have known I was going to make amends for them. AA has taught me to acknowledge and move on. If my family memebers don't want to talk about old drinking stories and harms after my initial amends I have got to accept this as part of their request to make the wrong right these things might still be hurting them. If I still need to talk about old horrible times it is best left with my sponsor. My father and I didn't spent the last six years talking about the drunken brawls we've had. My amends after that was being there while he was on his deathbed. I would have never thought at his funeral I would be sitting there thinking , " The world just lost a really nice guy, too bad he didn't know how to do it." The old me would have never attended the funeral. Much less participated in any of my family's lives without correcting or torturing them. I and my sponsor both thought that was amends enough


Member: JACK B
Location: PALO ALTO PA.
Date: 8/29/00
Time: 2:32:21 AM

Comments

Hi , I am Jack a real alcoholic.When I think about making amends to my family, I guess it began the first day I went without a drink, 23rd November 1987 and haven't picked one up since thru the Grace of God, the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. During my drinking career, I may have not stolen anything of material value, I wasn't brought up that way.However I did steal an awful lot of hopes and dreams from some wonderful people.Hopes and dreams that can never be fulfilled at this point in my life.Step 12 stresses practicing these principles in all our affairs, and that means on the homefront also.To practice these on the homefront, I need to be there at times and thru this fellowship and AA, I have been living these principles, imperfectly but none the less doing a little better than I did when I drank. Thanks for a great topic and a reminder of just what a personal hell I put myself and some wonderful people thru. God Bless all.


Member: A. Realist
Location: anytown
Date: 8/29/00
Time: 3:42:11 AM

Comments

Its odd how being sober makes up for all the bad things you did and how you think that if you are not forgiven then it is their problem. How many times can you lose someones trust till it is ok for them not to fully trust you again? You say "I am sober, i am sorry" they think "yeah, for how long". Sometimes you have to accept the fact that some things cant be foregiven, and rightfully so. Somethings cant and shouldnt be forgiven. Maybe not everybody has commited acts of this nature, but alot of you have. AA seems to make you people think that being sober makes up for all the hell and pain you put other people through. The damage you have inflicted can never be repaired, deal with it.


Member: Rich R, slowly recovering compulsive person :-)
Location: Michigan
Date: 8/29/00
Time: 5:05:35 AM

Comments

Sheri, thanks AGAIN for a wonderful topic/thought starter. You are 'right on the money' again. Guilty as charged for preaching. I don't know why I do it! Maybe b/c I get so frustrated that these newcomers don't come back. And yet, I'm sure one of the reasons why they don't come back is b/c ppl like me preach at them. I guess another reason I do it is b/c it is so much easier to focus on them rather than me. Like it says on pg449 I 'need to concentrate not so much on what needs to be changed in the world as in me and my attitude'. Thanks again for holding up a mirror so I can see myself as others see me.


Member: Rich R, slowly recovering compulsive person :-)
Location: Michigan
Date: 8/29/00
Time: 5:19:59 AM

Comments

Sorry for the double post, but... When I come here I read until I see the topic, then I post, then I go back and read what others have said. Well, this week that meant I missed what seems to be the real topic, amends to family. So if you'll forgive a double dip here goes...

I have a saint for a wife (seriously) and being a compulsive person, with many addictions, I have really taken advantage of her saintliness. Today, after almost 10 yrs of recovery, I still mostly 'take' from her. She seems to be working her Alanon program/steps much better than I work my program. I need to stop patting myself on the back for not drinking / betting / smoking / etc. and start working on some of the character defects which I am sure are more troublesome to her than my addictions. I heard a good oneliner recently than describes me: an AA said: 'I used to be like a rum fruitcake, but now that I've stopped drinking, I'm just a fruitcake! I thank my HP for AA humor.


Member: sonia b
Location: uk
Date: 8/29/00
Time: 5:35:04 AM

Comments

I really dont know where i stand on this topic, at 17 days sober i certainly dont feel recovered enough to say sorry and expect it to be taken seriously, as has been mentioned sorry is probably the most used word by myself in recent times. I find my family mostly supportive of my endeavor to stay sober, except of course my father who is a very big drinker himself, he activly encourages my drinking, it is dangerous for me to visit him at any other time than first thing in the morning. I have never met an alcoholic who expected forgiveness, but there is need to relinquish the guilt, guilt is a negative emotion which will only lead me to my next drink. I suspect the previouse post was by an alanon member, the truth of this i do not know and cannot know. There is one person that i fear will not feel able to forgive me when it comes to my time for this step, and i know that it will hurt, but as each day sober passes i also have the knowledge that i will no longer be inflicting pain on my nearest and dearest and i hope i can use that to wipe away the guilt, and that does not mean forget the hurt i inflicted. But accept that i didnt know better then. It cannot be changed. I am trying to build foundations for a new life. I am frightened that i may never reach the point where i can lay my hand on my heart and truly say it will never happen again. I sincerely hope i can reach a point in my sobriety where i can look to tomorrow and not see a drink there.

insane.sonia@ntlworld.com


Member: Lionel.C
Location: campbelltown/australia
Date: 8/29/00
Time: 5:47:29 AM

Comments

.hi Lionel alcoholic hi Kat and all. The hardest place i've found to work this program is at home amoung my own family.I remember when i first started to sober up icould'nt understand why my family was'nt happy for me and why they did'nt give me a few pats on the back and say well done.I was like the farmer in the BB who came out of his cellar after the hurricane and said everything seems fine.I could'nt see all the destruction i've caused in the lives of my family and others .this disease is cunning bafferling and powerful.IT told me if I put the plug in the jug that would be enougth and everyone should be grateful.But thats not how it works.I have to do this program for myself I can't do for anyone else.I'm the alcoholic.Yet today I see changes in myself and family i would have never believed possible.for someone who came out of a rehab 9 years ago who was so far removed from reality ,who had a wife and family he did'nt know or could'nt love.Lifes pretty good today.I'm getting of the topic so i'll leave it there.I wanted to erase this buti think i'll leave it.Thanks for your sharing need you all in recovery lionel


Member: Mike W
Location: Pa.
Date: 8/29/00
Time: 10:05:34 AM

Comments

To Sonia B.

Congratulations on your 17 days!That is a miracle. I was the sorriest person I knew for 27 years of drinking I was constantly saying I'm sorry.It was not until I got honest with myself and found the fellowship of AA that I realized that the way to begin to say I am sorry is not to drink, ONE DAY AT A TIME. Making amends is not the first step to recovery,that will come in God's time. I first had to forgive myself for all of the pain that I had inflicted on the people that I loved most. I then asked God to forgive me, once this was done I put all of my wrongs in His hands until the time came to make my amends. Telling those that I harmed is my amends, what they choose to do, or how they react is out of my control and has no bearing on my 9th Step.The actions that caused all of the pain to those that had the misfortune to be a part of my life were the actions of a person with a drink in his hand. I am not that person today. I can not honestly say that it will never happen again,but by being the best person that I can be, and with the help and guidence of AA, there is a good chance that I will not drink TODAY.And today is all that I have.I can not change yesterday, I can not control what tomorrow will bring, I must make the most of today. God bless you on your journey


Member: Samantha C.
Location: Toronto
Date: 8/29/00
Time: 12:59:06 PM

Comments

I just got my six months chip after twenty years of daily drinking/druggging. I'm only 32 years old, and making amends to my family has been both easy and rewarding with one notable exception. My husband would not stop encouraging me to drink after I chose to quit, and when I would apologize for things that had happened while I was wasted he insisted that he would not bring them up again. But he did, again and again until I could no longer take it. Every time something went wrong it was my fault. While I was drunk this was most probably true, but now that I am sober I scare the hell out of him. We have seperated for the time being, because he actually told me he would prefer me the way I used to be (I was drinking a forty pounder every day). Of course he did! That way he was the good guy and got all the sympathy for looking after his drunken wife. We still see each other on a weekly basis but I cannot see living with someone who cannot be honest with me; he claims to accept my amends one minute and then throws my past actions in my face in order to hurt me. He has a whole list of "Remember Whens" to torture me with.

I hope that someday he will understand more about my disease but, until then, I cannot attempt to make amends to him anymore as he turns around and uses them as a weapon against me.

Sometimes, people just don't want to hear what you have to say!

Good luck and God Bless,


Member: Barry
Location: London
Date: 8/29/00
Time: 2:29:41 PM

Comments

To Kevin, Rick and everyone who scours these stories looking for comfort, understanding and support. I sincerely thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts. Already I feel part of a group who has the ability to listen without judging. Thats a rare quality in todays life I can tell ya. This AA lark sounds fun. the place to go just to learn to appreciate life and be a better person. I might just go one of these days and see whats its all about. I wouldn't have even contemplated it if it wasn't for what I read in this global chat room. May your God bless you all and give you the strength to face the world a better person than you were yesterday (thats what me mother used to say)


Member: Anonymous
Location:
Date: 8/29/00
Time: 6:32:53 PM

Comments

Amends to family; One can do so, but the few, the humble, the dovout, experience it thus:... For it was in this plight therefore he went home, and refrained himself as long as he could, that his Wife and Children should not preceive his distress, but he could not be silent long, because that his trouble increased: Wherefore at length he brake his mind to his Wife and Children; and thus he began to talk to them:

O my dear Wife, said he, and you the Children of my bowels, I your dear friend, am in myself undone by reason of a Burden that lieth hard upon me; moreover, I am for certain informed that this our City will be burned with fire from Heaven; in which fearful overthrow, both myself, with thee my Wife, and you my sweet Babes, shall misereably come to ruine, except {the which yet I see not} some way of escape can be found, whereby we may be delivered.

At this his Relations were sore amazed; not for that they believed that what he had said to them was true, but because they thought that some frenzy distemper had got into his head;

I saw also that he looked this way and that way, as if he would run; yet he stood still, because, as I preceived, he could not tell which way to go.

Therefore, it drawing towards night, and they hoping that sleep might settle his brains, with all haste they got him to bed: But the night was as troublesome to him as the day; wherefore, instead of sleeping he spent it in sighs and tears. So, when the morning was come, they would know how he did; He told them, "Worse and worse": he also set to talking to them again, but they began to be hardened: they also thought to drive away his distemper by harsh and surly carriages to him; sometimes they would deride, sometimes they would chide, and sometimes they would quite neglect him: Wherefore he began to retire himself to his chamber, to pray for and pity them, and also to console his own misery; he would also walk solitarily in the fields, sometimes reading, and sometimes praying: and thus for some days he spent his time.

So I saw, that the man began to run. Now he had not run far from his own door, but his Wife and Children, preceiving it, began to cry after him to return; but the Man out his fingers in his ears, and ran on, crying Life! Life! Eternal Life! So he looked not behind him but fled toward the middle of the plain. I can no means return, said he, for you dwell in the City of Disturction, the place also where I was born, I see it to be so; and dying there, sooner or later, you will sink lower than the Grave, into a place that burns with fire and brimstone: be content, and go along with me. This then, is a Spiritual Awakening...


Member: Lorrie R.
Location: Michigan
Date: 8/29/00
Time: 7:36:52 PM

Comments

Good Evening! My name is Lorrie and I am an alcoholic/addict. I'd like to welcome all the newcomers who are seeking recovery. My hope for you is that you will read something that will make you want to come back. One of the first things I remember hearing is "you don't ever have to drink again, if 'you' don't want too". Not only did I not want too, I could not stop on my own. I had "stopped" drinking hundreds of times, but knew nothing about being sober. The time frame between drinks got shorter and shorter and alcohol had stopped "working" for me and I began to see what it was doing to me. It took 35 years of "controlled" drinking for me to discover once I put alcohol into my system, I had no control. The first statement I made was also the first "promise" I was given in Alcoholics Anonymous.

The dual topic of amends and preaching are both prety dynamic. When I had made my list in Step 8, my sponsor ask where I was on the list. Although I created much pain and havoc in the lives of my family, friends, employers` my drinking devastated my life...the more I drank, the more I sufferred, the more I sufferred, the more I drank. I did not know how to get off the merryground. It was pretty easy for me to see the surface damage I had done to my family and friends while intoxicated and being newly sober I didn't want to be self-centered or selfish. Hindsight revealed to me that I was an ego maniac, who sufferred from low (or no) self-esteem or worth. Before I could begin to make amends to anyone else, it was necessary for me to make amends to myself - my sponsor said otherwise it would be "lip service" and all those people I had listed certainly were tired of me being "sorry".

She also told me that not everyone would believe or accept my amends, and how people responded was none of my business! My business was being willing to make the amends as opportunities arose and then to get on with CONTINUING sobriety. Interestingly enough some of the things I had carried with me for years, was not even remembered by others. That didn't matter either as my sponsor told me when we discussed those situations, the amends was for me and my healing. Some people were indifferent, some people have told me to get outta sight, some people understood and accepted my amends (suppose they had already forgiven me?)...She also told me for all of the people and situations that I felt I needed to make amends to and for that the "proof was in the pudding". If I continued my old behaviors, attitudes and treatment than I was lying not only to them but to myself again...and I might get drunk, or at best simply be a "dry drunk" and live miserably the rest of my days. Now, I could have interpreted her words as "preaching", "have too's", "orders", etc., rebelled (which I was gooood at) and continued on my merry way. Part of the key for me is that somehow, someway, I heard her and saw by the way she lived plus the peace and contentment she had in her life, that she MUST know something I did not. I have not met an alcoholic yet that wants to be TOLD ANYTHING. My sponsor, bless her heart, always gave me the information and the rest was up to me. She did insist that I read the book, attend meetings, call her, meet with her once a week, plus attend one meeting a week with her. I had to "want" the program, not need it. There were other conditions "we" agreed on once she discovered I wanted to be sober and was willing to do the things that worked to get and keep a person sober. It was a wonderful beginning for me...and guess what - I sponsor people today, just like I was sponsored. I too, have a problem with "bleading deacons" and/or "gurus", however I have learned to look at myself. Sometimes I see where I have been, where I am now, and where I might be...again, I get to choose how I want to be. Some of the oldtimers practice tough love. Many times on this journey of recovery, I have needed to be kicked in the rear. I don't always like it, but I always have to think about what was said, and to take an inventory of myself, and to practice, practice, practice the steps and principles of this program in all my affairs. Today, I can tell you I am contented and happy in my sobriety most of the time. When I have life experiences that upset "my" world, I know there is a solution and I pick up the tools and get to work. May you all walk in the sunlite of the spirit one day at a time.


Member: Rick M.
Location: Texas
Date: 8/29/00
Time: 11:15:14 PM

Comments

Barry, I hope you find the answers you are looking for, whether in a AA meeting, church, family or here. If we can help you to completely abstain, or even just to remain sober and in control, then we are glad to be of help.

I think a lot of you are right about making amends. Some people will want to see long-lasting change before they forgive. Asking for this forgiveness is helpful for them because it allows open discussion and acknowledgement of the wrong things we have done.

Asking for forgiveness is also helpful for us. We can also put some closure on the past. And, as some of you have hinted at, it makes us accountable for this new life of sobriety that we have chosen.

To you preachers out there: It is really hard sometimes when you see someone who is not choosing the correct path - especially when you have personally been down that path and know the pain it causes. You sincerely want to help them avoid the same problems and pain. Remember when you were brand new. Act toward the new members in a way that would have helped you during your first meeting.

Preaching is viewed by many to be confrontational. A good rapport and relationship must be developed before such confrontation is even close to being appropriate or beneficial.

It is not our job to save or change anyone. We can only help them.

God bless you all.


Member: darryl h
Location: chicago
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 12:13:29 AM

Comments

Amends are good. I am great at amending, but they often don't stick. Your discussions allow me to feel connected. Complaints: My Dad died of cancer this spring without hearing my amends. My college roomate died this year without hearing my amends. My former mentor and altogether kind person died this year without hearing my amends. I know this is too much "me" and not enough "we" but I don't understand what I should do or what the right thing to do is. I feel like a deer in a farmer's filed, startled and squinting at an unnatural bright light from the direction of the voices and the idling truck engine. I see a flash, a spinning sliver of moonlight, a crushing blow between my eyes and a distant, fading sound of a gunshot. But I'm in denial, right?


Member: Dickson C
Location: Jefferson State
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 12:18:49 AM

Comments

hi dickson iam a alcoholic amends Berry forgive me but if you are showing inablety to control your drinking then you met have a problem aa should be listed in phone book in big book says to make amends its up to them what they do not you if you get hurt not them ok its in the book because i dont know how act are think with love


Member: April V
Location:
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 2:17:32 AM

Comments

Please everyone I am new here /a


Member: /a
Location:
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 2:21:21 AM

Comments

I need your help


Member: ChuckM
Location: Alberta
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 2:22:06 AM

Comments

I'm Chuck, an alcoholic

The way I read the program step 8, the willingness, to make amends is for my benefit. Step 9 the amends is for the benefit of the person that was harmed.

For my children I could only apologize for not being the loving father they deserved. I did not know at the time that my behavior had been caused by a mental illness. They were not aware either. I see my children on a weekly basis now so the relationship has been repaired somewhat.

It always seems strange to me that treatment centre ideas and other ideas from people that do not follow the program in the Big Book are OK, but if an oldtimer points out the AA program it is labelled as preaching. I guess we don't get sanity right away. In any event

Peace and Serenity


Member: april
Location:
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 2:26:30 AM

Comments

I don't know this forum well enough to know how everything works


Member: april
Location:
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 2:32:44 AM

Comments

I'm so sorry if I seem impatient, but is has taken me so long to get here

sory f


Member: April
Location:
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 2:42:25 AM

Comments

Please is anyone out there?


Member: Yvonne
Location: Scotland
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 4:21:20 AM

Comments

Hello everybody,

Both these topics seem important to me at the moment. I'm very much a newcomer and have let myself get upset about some "preaching" posts to the point of retaliation. I now realise that I'm just as guilty for making moral judgements on them and need to learn to be more tolerant of other peoples opinions. Perhaps I need to put myself in their place and see things through their eyes.

A lot of my problems in accepting my alcoholism have stemmed from the fact that all my family drink heavily and I hadn't realised how abnormal it was until I married and moved away. I didn't change my drinking but started to hide it more when I socialised with normal drinkers, but when I met up with the family it was no holds barred. I resented having to admit that I had a problem when they weren't prepared to see that they had one too.Two of my sisters have now stopped drinking but I have to distance myself from the rest of the family. Part of acceptance is not just recognising my own problem and all its ramifications but also recognising and accepting theirs. I can only deal with my own alcoholism and have to accept that I can't make them recognise theirs if they don't want to. Making amends to my family is going to be a real tangled web as we have all hurt each other so much over the years. There are a lot of things I find it hard to forgive and yet I have to realise that they were sick too.Everything gets very compicated when I try to think of my relationships within the family but I suppose as long as accept that I am an alcoholic and start working from there then things may become clearer with time. Thank you for listening.

Love Yvonne


Member: Charlie Darling
Location: Almost home to Key West
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 8:09:59 AM

Comments

Good morning Family Charlie Darling a very grateful recovering alcholic, making amends to all I have harmed in the past wether verbal or otherwize, is har for anyone, but today I find I don't have to make as many amends to anyone but myself, as since I came into the rooms of AA I live by the 11th step prayer or the prtayer to St Francis,{the same} , as you would not believe how much that helps me to get through the day and I find I don't have to harm anyone that is harming me, and I pray for people to help them so my amend list gets shorter all the time, and it is great not having to be on the giving end of making amends. I want to thank everyone of you for helping me to stay sober these past few months I have been up here in Maine, as I shall be returning to Key West within the next few days, and I will be able to get to meetings everyday, and that is what I need to stay sober. But hte meetings I was able to get to while here in Maine was staying cyber and thank you over again, and especially the family members who have personally emailed me. I will continue to go to staying cyber while I am back in Key West, and if ever anyone get to Key West make sure you go to the meetings at the club house, and anyone who cares to email me my email will be as of 9-1-00 kwduke_1999@yahoo.com. Again thank you family I needed you most while up here, and I couldn"t have done this without all of you, and to the new comers keep coming back it works if you work it. I love you all Charlie Darling. I am going home


Member: Sheri F 
Location: Amends heaven in Portland,OR
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 12:43:53 PM

Comments

Sheri F,recoverING alki (lush?)I used to think that the word lush wasthe "Ladylike version of Alcoholic.. Boy did I change.. I am an Alcoholic full blown. Also a preachers daughter and I do preach.. but don't want too. Working on that.. I need to make amends to one and all for an earlier post.. I was a real true witch spelt with a B No excuse for my action.. Please forgive me I no longer get on my knees but this chair works and I am spending a LOT of time in prayer and taking a good hard look at Sheri and seeing not the women I was or want to be. Time to get back to the basics for me.. Thank You.. Love and Prayers, Sheri F slfrey@Yahoo.com freyhirata@aol.com


Member: Nancy H
Location: Massachusetts
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 1:20:20 PM

Comments

Making amends to me never meant merely saying, "I'm sorry". Somehow it seems it is important to me to attempt to repair the damage I caused my family. I consider since neither my children nor I can relive those years alcoholism took away, I will be making amends to them for the rest of my life. This means I am often reminded of the pain I caused. Once I stopped making excuses for myself these discussions have become more productive. I don't believe that whether or not I am forgiven should determine the need to make amends.


Member: terry
Location: coffee pot
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 1:27:41 PM

Comments

april,plug the jug,go to the coffee pot.we will talk there.

terry


Member: Linda
Location:
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 4:21:02 PM

Comments

Ditto to Nancy from Mass.

No where does it say we will be forgiven if we make amends. That's not the reason we do it. We are asked to make every effort to clean up the wreakage of our past or there's a REALLY good chance we will get drunk again.

Many amends are like gratitude .... they have to be expressed in the way we live or no one (at least not the people I said 'I'm sorry' to thousands of times).... no one can believe we mean it.


Member: s.s.
Location:
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 7:40:40 PM

Comments

linda,

maybe not in the bb but it does in the bible,so its never to late to say your sorry.

soul searchin


Member: Lyn E
Location: alaska
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 8:30:16 PM

Comments

Well my name is lyn. and im a alchoalic. today is my first step to being sober. can any one help.


Member: Mary K
Location: Boston (Raynham)
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 8:56:59 PM

Comments

Hi all! Mary, alcy

Family....amends, boy am I glad that one is behind me. Things went exceptionally well with my brother, as well as could be expected with my mother and rotton with my sister. I have been sober (one day at a time, thank you God) for over 12 years now and she still is waiting for me to drink. I kept going back to her repeating my regrets and voicing my amends hoping in vain for the "Brady Bunch" relationship I wanted. After many, many years of banging my head against the wall trying to force this relationship and crying many, many tears I had an epiphany at my Women's Step meeting. Ya know how you have read the same line hundreds of times and one time - BLAM !!! All of sudden, this one time, you see and really feel it's meaning (as it applies to you). I am not quoter and I can't recall the exact step but the line that freed me from the torment of this unsuccessful relationship was something to the effect: "We came to have the best possible relations........." It occurred to me that the best possible relationship I could have with my sister was no relationship at all. It caused me too much pain trying and she did want one anyway. It was so freeing to apply this line to my "letting go"...I still love her very much but from a distance. It frees me from the pain of trying to force a relationship and constantly being rejected. I had to accept it, though prior to letting it all go I left many claw marks - lol.

Thank God for AA. Thank God for each and every one of you.

Love, Mary


Member: Gerry Mc
Location: Daytona Beach,Fl
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 9:09:29 PM

Comments

Lyn,don't drink ,pray and go to meetings. It works I know I tried everything I tried my way I tried the laws way I tried my churchs way nothing worked until I tried AA's way. I've been sober going on 16 yrs. doing just what I said in the beginning of this paragraph. I used to pray that I didn't drink before I got to a meeting; but it stilled worked. I believe it will always work. Just for today don't drink. talk to people who have the same problem you have. Good luck.


Member: Rick M.
Location: Texas
Date: 8/30/00
Time: 10:22:16 PM

Comments

April, if you are still there, we are listening. Don't worry about being new or knowing what to say. Just tell us what's been happening in your life.

Barry, it sounds like you have had a tremendous amount of loss in your life lately. It might help to separate your feelings of guilt for not having made amends to these people from the pain of your loss and helplessness. I am wondering if there are other people who you have not made amends to that you can go to now. I can't help but notice the poetic way you describe the deer. Death seems to be a subject you have given a lot of thought about.

Chuck, we appreciate your patience. We need old-timers as a source of stability and wisdom.


Member: Bill G
Location: Texas
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 2:10:31 AM

Comments

My name is Bill and I,m an alcoholic,

Got to the 6th step and been back "out there" for the last 2 years or so. Be back at a meeting tomorrow, God willing. I can't take the pain anymore. LOL.


Member: KarenH
Location: Newtown, PA
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 8:47:41 AM

Comments

April, you sweet thing. I'm sure this is coming to late for your immediate needs, but I hope in the long run it helps. One day, one hour, one minute at a time, you can live a beautiful, sober, happy life. I've been doing it 17 years, but I still remember that first night, when I prayed for God to help me. I was all alone in my dorm room at college in the wee hours of the morning, drunk and high, hating myself and my life. I asked for help and two days later I was dragged into the dean's office and confronted with my addiction. I'd never even seen the guy before, but my friends, who had been watching my downward slide, asked him for help. As it happened, not only did he have the capacity to kick me out of school, he knew where every meeting was in the area. He was recovering himself.

I don't know how you came to find this site, but I have no doubt you are one of God's chosen ones. Much as you may hate to hear about God, he's the best friend you've got. The rest of us are just following his lead.

Much love to you April. I'm rooting for you.


Member: angela b
Location: virginia
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 9:46:38 AM

Comments

hey yall, angela alcoholic here. suppose to go to the grandmas for her birthday next month. 65 family members in varing degrees of insanity. we got drunks, junkies, rednecks, bigots, sluts, inmates, exmates, crackheads, pimps, racist, rapists, murderers, thieves, prostitutes, molesters, pornographers, extortionist, child abusers, egomanics. also known as, doctors, lawyers, pharmacist, nurses, pilots, vetrans, land developers, teachers, preachers, hairdressers, stockbrokers, politicians, bankers, farmers, small business owners, realestate agents, waitresses, college students, engineers, and mechanics. amends. love


Member: Aby
Location: London
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 10:57:04 AM

Comments

Deareast all..Whow I love reading these postings. They do give me a lot of strength and hope. My experience of this programme(sometimes i hates using that word .. sounds so ridgid..) is one of love and learning. Its is true what they say .. you do come to know a deeper understanding of yourself. And for this i am truly grateful. I'm having a bit of difficulty with my amends and my anonimity. When i make amends i want to instinctively blame all of my bad behaviour/problems on my drinking. I know though that it isn't all the drinkings fault. Being an alchohlic doesn't mean that i am special or different enough to be forgiven for my misgivings towards others. But i wish i could use it as an excuse sometimes..but then i wouldn't be taking respondsibility. I live with drinkers. My flat mates all drink heavily and i moved in with them when i was 12 weeks sober. They are all good people but lately i have noticed somethings up. Last night i saw an email with my name in the subject section and it basically said that i was doing there heads in. I decided to confront my own fear and sit down and talk with the people who were being perfectly nice to my face but gossiping and condeming me behind my back. Why is this happening i asked myself! When i moved in i didnt tell them about my problem with Alcohol or drugs. Last night i found myself rambling on and on.. trying to get them to like me by telling them that i was sick. How horrid i feel today. They are going to have a meeting tonight to discuss the "situation" without me. I'm feeling hurt and vunrable.. i have betrayed my anonimity to people that dont like me in the mask of an amendment. They should of been making amends to me and not the other way round! I wish i could crawl under a rock and hide, cant bare the idea of going home tonight...yuck. Any advice would be very welcome! All my love -Abyxx abyking@hotmail.com


Member: crazed
Location: ore
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 12:22:25 PM

Comments

lynn e.,i can help you,like you helped me.... ill meet you at the coffee pot today.

crazed


Member: ac
Location: up here
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 12:32:49 PM

Comments

angela b., sounds like a nice family.....did everyone get a prison pass for the event?

al capone


Member: M.C.
Location: NJ
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 1:17:09 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Marie and I am definetly an alcoholic! Family... wow... Truley my "F" word :) WE (yes, we)have 10 years clean now, we have made progress in SO many areas of my life. Yet somehow, whenever my family is involved, I feel I have no more control than a cigarette butt in a tornado. I believe I have made my ammends for my past behavior but I also cannot continue to have any sort of relationship with many of them. I can't handle the constant judgement and out-right head games they play so well (they do not have the benifit of having any sort of program). I couldn't play the games well drunk, and I'm worse now that I am clean. I've recently been struggling horribly with the "Family" topic (happens 1-2 times a year) and it always seems to take the same path. I've been whirling in anger & resentment. Then I start to feel remorse and sadness over this unmanagable situation. Then I feel all the pain at once. If I sit in the pain for any extended time, I begin to entertain the thought of picking up, getting in my car and driving away. Does this sound familiar to anyone? My sponser recently said this may have something to do with pride...I'm still mulling this around. Look, let's face it, we are flawed people. And I really struggle sometimes to just live life on life's terms. One thing that really helps me, which I got out of the 24-hr a day book (I love this book) was to try to go just one day (24 hours) with letting God be the only judge of my actions. I thought of this when I was reading Aby's entry. Aby, I love the description of your family. I wanted to pass this on to you (which someone recently told me) God loves you exactly the way you are today. :) He loves them exactly the way they are today too :0 C'ya & have a great day,


Member: MRS. LINDA D.
Location: HOUSTON, TEXAS
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 2:11:12 PM

Comments

i AM AN ALCOHOLIC AND AN ADDICT, MY NAME IS LINDA. ABOUT THE PREACHERS, WHAT A RIOT. MY SPONSOR TOLD ME ONCE, THAT IF YOU SHARE FOR OVER FIVE MINUTES IN A MEETING, EVERYTHING ELSE IS YOUR EGO TALKING. AS ALCOHOLICS, WE SEEM TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH OUR EGO.

THERE USED TO BE THIS ONE OLD TIMER (28 YEARS) THAT ALWAYS SEEMED TO PREACH THE SAME THING. IT DROVE ME CRAZY UNTIL ONE DAY I HEARD MYSELF SAYING THE EXACT SAME THING HE SAYS. THEN I REALIZED HE WAS RIGHT.

BASICALLY THE STATEMENT THAT IS PREACHED CONSTANTLY IN AA IS THIS: WORK THE STEPS!!!. IT IS SAID IN MANY WAYS AND MOST OF THE TIME IN TOO MANY WORDS. BUT IT STILL RINGS TRUE.

I CAN WORK THE STEPS ON ANY GIVEN SITUATION IN MY LIFE. NOT JUST ALCOHOL. WHAT A MIRACLE!

KEEP CLICKING BACK!!!


Member: Joseph O.
Location: Israel
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 2:43:43 PM

Comments

Working the steps! Yes! I find I must always remember Honesty with the steps! God as I understand Him is not one to be be dishonest with! I am not a proverbial "holier than thou," I just do my best to work the steps with Honesty. When sitting at meetings that are flowing over with some of the most degrading bar-talk you could imagine, what kind of Honesty are these AA sharers practicing, or even trying to practice? To my way of thinking AA should be a refuge of sorts from all that type of talk, that I once used myself, but grew out of, with the help of this program, to just leave it outside the doors of the AA meeting, with "the world and its people (who) are often quite wrong!" What about the people just getting started in AA? That kind of talk would either drive them back out the door, have them join in, and maybe get nowhere, or even worse in AA than they were when drinking. A Good topic for discussion, don't you think?

Joseph O.


Member: Joseph O.
Location: Israel
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 2:43:53 PM

Comments

Working the steps! Yes! I find I must always remember Honesty with the steps! God as I understand Him is not one to be be dishonest with! I am not a proverbial "holier than thou," I just do my best to work the steps with Honesty. When sitting at meetings that are flowing over with some of the most degrading bar-talk you could imagine, what kind of Honesty are these AA sharers practicing, or even trying to practice? To my way of thinking AA should be a refuge of sorts from all that type of talk, that I once used myself, but grew out of, with the help of this program, to just leave it outside the doors of the AA meeting, with "the world and its people (who) are often quite wrong!" What about the people just getting started in AA? That kind of talk would either drive them back out the door, have them join in, and maybe get nowhere, or even worse in AA than they were when drinking. A Good topic for discussion, don't you think?

Joseph O.


Member: Joe A.   DOS 2/19/71
Location: Portland, OR
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 3:49:42 PM

Comments

Hi, all. "Preacher" Joe A. of Portland back with maybe some more "sermonizing" about what has worked for me for more than 29 years.

{{{Hugs and a note to all newcomers}}} Each of us in AA has his own way of saying things. When you hear someone seem to give orders, like, read the BB, get a sponsor, work the steps--I believe they are really saying that is what worked best in their lives and they suggest that you do likewise. It doesn't take too long in AA to discover that no one wants to hear our orders. They are all pretty good at telling us where to stick those orders!

This thing works incredibly well if we allow ourselves to stop fighting it and instead, start using the same tools that have worked so well for millions of others like us.

God loves you and wants for you nothing but good. I have finally stopped disagreeing with God about anything.

:-)---< Joe A.


Member: Allison C
Location: Here at home
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 4:54:05 PM

Comments

CAROL I get a lot of the same feedback from my close friends and my husband, "Oh, you are too hard on yourself, you weren't that bad." I've tried to get sober for over 2 years, I begged people not to bring alchohol to my house and they would still show up with a bottle and I would drink it. I know I can't do that again and like you I try to remember my last drunk-what a horrible idiot I was, the events that took place,etc... That has helped me these last 11 days. I was a mess when I was drinking, there is no doubt about it. I'm still in the beginning steps. BARRY I told myself I could reduse my drinking over and over. Like you, I could never walk away after a few drinks. I also struggled with the "what is this doing to me" recently. It was killing me in so many ways that I could take all day to type in. I needed to stop drinking all together. There is not an option for me to have just a few drinks a few days a week. I tried that and ALWAYS went back to the can't walk away me. And I am learning that it is a day to day thing. I can't plan on tomorrow. Thanks for making me think.


Member: Patty H.
Location: Az
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 5:40:41 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Patty and I an alcoholic. This is my first time to share so forgve me if I don't do it right. I hear so much pain and anger among those of you whose amends didn't turn out as desired. I well remember pain and anger! For ten years before coming to AA I carried "gut wrenching" anger and resentment against my mother. After coming to AA, I heard about amends, and I was so sure I owed her nothing, if anything she owed me, so I simply didn't worry about it, but I continued to wallow around in the resentment. Then a man at a mtg told me if I didn't get over it I surely would be drunk again!(what bad news). No one told me what I MUST do to be free, but, in time, I heard another member share his experience regarding a deep anger aganst an ex-wife. I could identifywith THAT, so I listened to him tell how the oldtimers suggested he pray for her every day until the hatred left him. He said he did and it did! I did not wish my mother well, but I surely did not want to be drunk again, so I tried it. The only honest thing I could ask a God I didn't believe in, was "Please God help her". I did this on my way to ameeting and on my way home. Believe me , this was no overnight miracle, however I was able to stay sober and begin to grow. Then one dry-drunk nite I thought I would take out this resentment out and wallow in my self-pity, and the miracle begaan to happen...I could not find the resentment

1


Member: Patty H
Location: Az
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 5:54:07 PM

Comments

Hi, Patty again; Iwanted to say that was the start of many miracles regarding that relationship. Too long to go into today. At the last of her life I was the only one she had to care for her, and we really loved one another.


Member: Joseph O.
Location: Israel
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 6:47:01 PM

Comments

Good message from Joe A just above! I agree wholeheartedly! I don't want to give orders, just want to say what worked for me. I know I needed not only Honesty, but to keep an open mind, and be willing to learn from the ones they called the winners. "Stick with the winners" they used to say! And so I did!

Joseph O.

PS- About five years behind you Joe.


Member: Shannon S.
Location: Southern Cal.
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 9:35:34 PM

Comments

Shannon alcoholic here. Happy to be sober. Amends can be easy as long as I focus on my part of the process. When making amends to my family, I acknowledged the harm I had done. I said I was sorry. I explained that I would make amends by not behaving that way in the future. this was about six years ago I still maintain those amends by remaining sober and working a program. I believe my family understands, but if not it's still a good amends.

Barry in London - normal drinkers never wonder if they have a drinking problem. Once I started asking myself those kinds of questions I was already over the line into alcoholism.

Sheri is right. Meetings are best when everyone is good to each other.

Best wishes to all for a lifetime of contented sobriety. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Theresa S.
Location: Iowa
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 9:59:11 PM

Comments

Hi I am Theresa and I am an alcoholic.

This was a very good meeting for me! I saw myself in a couple of people, Barry and Yvonne!

Like Barry, I have a job that often requires social interaction at events where alcohol is being consumed! I have finally learned how to manage this! I thank the readings from the book for this! There are many words of advice to buisness people in there!

Like Yvonne, my whole family drinks! I was invited to a get toghether the other night, and I had told this relative that I quite drinking. She told me not to be preachy about it at the party! Like she thought I would pour all the beer out on the ground and get up on a pedstal, start waving a bible and condemning them all to eternal fire and brimstone!

I don't know how to handle my sobriety right now. I am so new at it, five months. I enjoyed reading about the making amends. Many had good things to say!

Thank you all for being here. And could someone tell me what the coffe pot is all about? I don't understand it.


Member: TERRY
Location: CONN.
Date: 8/31/00
Time: 11:26:27 PM

Comments

THERESA S. THE COFFEE POT IS FOR FUN..............ILL MEET YOU THERE, JUST CLICK OVER.WE WILL GET OLE ZANE THE PAIN ALL REVED UP!!!!!

COME ON TERRY


Member: tony g
Location: ma
Date: 9/1/00
Time: 1:33:43 AM

Comments

iv'e made amends to family ,and it went well,they listened.i made amends to my girlfreind who i made cry alot of times and she listened also. i was very sincere when i spoke to people and they said they where glad for me to have the courage to stop my drinking and face my self and all that...but i continue to make amends to them in a differant way now i try to be there for them,and take an interest in there lives,to be honest with people ,humble,making amends has helped in a lot of way's .i supose thats why it's recommened...life for me is so much better being sober...i'm tony an alcoholic


Member: vita
Location: nw
Date: 9/1/00
Time: 8:30:38 AM

Comments

hi vita here i tried to make amends to my 4 kids for screwing up their childhood by my constantly drinking, anger and self pity i couldnt feel their forgiveness my counselor told me when you forgive yourself you will feel their forgiveness she was right the best thing i heard on this was from a lady in a meeting she said" i use to wear a halo, i dont wear it anymore, i leave it at home now , it was real heavy, got in the way when i got in and out of my car" when i quit trying to be perfect and quit trying to make them like me everybody could relax and i could be a 'human being among other human beings ' alanon meeting helped me let go of trying to change my kids, trying to get their approval we are all beautiful children of God and we all deserve to love and be loved if we truely believe that we can love our selves and all others unconditionaly Relax God is in charge He got and us sober for a reason


Member: lyne C
Location: Virginia, USA
Date: 9/1/00
Time: 1:33:00 PM

Comments

Hi, Iam Lyne and I am an alcoholic. I am very happy to have found this. 20 years of sobriety and making ammends everyday. To my self.


Member: uss minto
Location:
Date: 9/1/00
Time: 6:37:17 PM

Comments

giligan?.....where are you?

skipper


Member: Mary T.
Location: Florida
Date: 9/1/00
Time: 7:35:08 PM

Comments

I'm Mary, and I'm an alcoholic. I've been sober for several years and don't go to as many meetings as I used to, so I'm glad to find this site. Regarding amends, I knew a fellow who had been sober for many years. When he got sober, his mother had already passed away and he was not able to make amends to her. His solution was to make amends to his mother by helping other elderly people, volunteering his time to do whatever was needed for them. Actions speak louder than words. I believe the concept of amends is not only to deal with things from before we got sober, but it is a principle to incorporate into your sober life, along with "when we were wrong, promptly admitted it." Some years into my sobriety there was a situation where I could not make direct amends for my wrong actions, and I tried making "indirect amends" the way my friend had. I found it to be very helpful.


Member: morty
Location: georgia
Date: 9/1/00
Time: 11:57:57 PM

Comments

rick m..

SHUT THE FUCK UP WILL YOU????

crissakes, they got some serial posters in the other areas, but you are the worst, you goddamn egotiscal fuck, now shut up and go away!


Member: Rick M.
Location: Texas
Date: 9/2/00
Time: 1:07:59 AM

Comments

To Morty,

You seem very angry right now. I am not quite sure what I said to the other members to illicit such a strong reaction from you. I do wonder if you would have made the same comments if we were in a meeting together.

Many people have listened and helped me in the past. I was sincerely trying to do the same. I apologize if it sounded any other way.

I am open to any suggestions that you or any other members want to make.

I would ask you to remember that when the language turns vulgar, many people who could have been helped are disenchanted with the entire discussion.

God Bless You.


Member: sherri
Location: florida
Date: 9/2/00
Time: 11:00:52 AM

Comments

my name is sherri, and i'm and alcoholic. i thought everyone was doin real good until morty. don't ya think you were a little hard on the guy? i don't even feel like coming here anymore.


Member: yo
Location:
Date: 9/2/00
Time: 1:07:14 PM

Comments

morty,morty........ you have a nasty little tone in your voice.are you an angry little man??ill bet you have that little man syndrome dont you? ====================0.....

get it


Member: MC
Location: NJ
Date: 9/2/00
Time: 3:51:44 PM

Comments

I'm new at this site and right now pretty turned off.

To Morty, and some others - In my opinion, totally inappropriate. I wouldn't expect that in the rooms so why should this be different? It seems as if the coffe pot has a similar tone so, I just won't visit there but, this is the meeting. I'd like it better if we kept it clean.

Of course, just like the rooms, I can move on too but there really seems to be a touch of good sobriety here too. So I'll sit back, relax, and listen a little more.

Thanks for listening


Member: Chris H.     
Location: FLorida
Date: 9/2/00
Time: 5:12:04 PM

Comments

Chris H--Alcoholic/addict/ bulumic...To tocomment on the Morty statement...I have been coming here for about 4 mos. and this is the first time ANYONE has used that kind of language and been that unkind...Please newcomers don't regard this meetiing as the norm..THis meeting means so much to me because I cannot get to FtoF meetings right now...I am having a rough day and I need to just listen...Thank GOd for my sponsor, the 12 steps and for my HP for getting me through times like this. Thank GOd for this sight.


Member: June
Location: Cross Creek
Date: 9/2/00
Time: 5:19:00 PM

Comments

To Rick M...Stop dishing out advice to everyone and how about sharing some ES&H...Or maybe you don't have any ES&H to share. This site was designed for alcoholics to share their experiences with others as it relates to the topic picked for the week. It is NOT a forum for "wannabe" phsycologists. So either share on the topic of the week or go to the CP and get your rocks off there!!!

As for the bible thumpers who keep shoving religion down our throats "THIS AINT A CHURCH!!!" Leave your bible preaching where it belongs and leave us the HELL alone.

As for amends! I don't have any family left to makes amends to, but have made and continue to make many amends to friends that I consider to be family. Sure has made my life much better because I am no longer ashamed to face them. As for amends to the the people I addressed earlier in this post, "FORGET ABOUT IT!!"


Member: Laurie L.
Location: California
Date: 9/2/00
Time: 6:30:29 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Laurie, an alcoholic. Family... I'm currently on step 9 and naively thought that I was ready and more than willing. Thought I'd start off with family. When I move out of the "victim", "they owe me", "expectation" of change on their part, mode I find a willingness I never imagined would be in my heart. This comes and goes, of course. One imagined obstacle: When I went to my family reunion 2 months ago I was saddened to hear the consensus on AA. I have 2 cousins who've recently joined AA. Over and over I heard about this cousin in jail on drug charges, another one who'd disappeared on a binge, and the outrageous behavior of others as a result of drugs or alcohol. But the worst, only talked about in whispers, was the 2 who've joined that awful "AA". Gutless wonder that I am I didn't mention that I was a member of AA. I came to realize that of all the shame I could bring upon my mother, amongst her sisters, would be that admission. I have amends to make to her over behavior while drinking and using and not directly related to that. For some reason it really seems difficult not to be able to honestly share what I'm doing and why, with her. I know that's no reason not to make those amends but it leaves a void. I don't know if others have gone through this but since finishing my 8th and being ready to start my 9th step, I find myself angry and defensive. Fighting with my husband over the most trivial things. My thoughts filled with anger and frustration that nearly paralyzes me. I pray and read and go to meetings but I just can't seem to get past it. I know this, too, shall pass and I MUST really try not to cause more wreckage. Thank you all for being here and helping me to stay sober one more day.


Member: Becky
Location: California
Date: 9/2/00
Time: 7:02:14 PM

Comments

Hey everyone, this is Becky, and I'm an alcoholic. Wow, it sounds to me like we've got some people right here that could make some amends to each other. As for me, I'm not gonna let somebody's bad attitude (yes - you morty) ruin a really good site. We are supposed to be supporting each other, not tearing each other apart. As for you, Rick, you do sound a lot like my last shrink! Who, knows, maybe you are! He was recovering too. Why not lighten up, take your shrink hat off, quit trying to be so darn helpful and do what June said by sharing your own experiences. If you would just relax, most of us are pretty nice. Let's all try to get this back on the right track.

I finally made amends with my father last year. I never could seem to live up to his standards. I guess being an alcoholic didn't help any. Unfortuantely, he was on his death bed when I finally sobered up long enough to try to own up to all the hurt I had caused him. He said he forgave me. But he still went to his grave without saying he loved me. That still hurts. I'm trying to make a difference with my mom. At least I'm sober now and can actually care about this at all.


Member: jenifer d
Location: canadian
Date: 9/2/00
Time: 7:19:43 PM

Comments

Hello, I'm Jenifer d and I am two years sober today! This site and the wonderful, genuine people who tell their stories here have been the biggest help that I could have found. Today my life is full of worries and problems but alchohol still has no part in it. I have come a long way. To the 'first timers' who visit, stick around! You have no idea of the power of some of the posts on this site. Feed off it and grow. I have no comment on the discussion this week, but it's a good one. They always are. I just wanted to say 'thank you' to those who have been here for me, jenifer d.


Member: tm
Location:
Date: 9/2/00
Time: 7:47:39 PM

Comments

this ones for you shorty-morty.............

....................oo================0.... ....... ........... the man


Member: morty
Location: ga.
Date: 9/2/00
Time: 8:03:19 PM

Comments

my point exactly.. now rick, be silent and learn.


Member: tm
Location:
Date: 9/2/00
Time: 11:29:27 PM

Comments

shorty-morty............thats pretty funny.... you play hand ball off a curb dont you?ha ha ha you little weisel you,ha,ha,ha rick


Member: DJ
Location: Chicago
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 12:17:28 AM

Comments

Yo, wazzzzzzuuuuuuuppppppppp !!!!!!!!!!!! Yo, man, this is DJ. Yall must be trippin man. Yeah, Im an alcoholic. But we gonna have to add a new category for morty. Instead of AA, itll be AAA - Alcoholics Anonymous A--h-le. Look man, if you woulda said that s--t to me, I woulda come right back at ya with twice as much in yo face. Who the f--- do you think you are man tellin people to shut the f up and get the f out. You aint god man. You the one need to shutup man. That guy must be a shrink or somethin man cuz you didn't even piss him off. Ha the jokes on you. And anyway, how do you even know what he told them other people wuznt just whot they needed? I dint here them complainin. Huh? Did you ever stop to think about that morty-shorty? You so holier than thou gotta stick yo nose into everybody elses sh-- when noone asked you to. I didnt hear you talkin about the topic, or tryin to help anyone you little f---. self-rightous bast---. Id love to tell you about amends man but Im too pissed off right now.Get a life man and leave people the f--- alone. You the one needs to shutup and learn.


Member: francisco rivero
Location: orlando
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 2:22:30 AM

Comments

Hi, hello... you only need to beleive in your self... if you understand..you are ana alcoholic... you can start your recover.. if not... you can't do that....

f/..


Member: Carol C.
Location: New Jersey
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 8:01:34 AM

Comments

Hi Carol Alcoholic

I hope newcomers realize we are all sick people trying to get well and as in a meeting, take what you need and leave the rest.....


Member: Linda
Location:
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 10:00:30 AM

Comments

Hi, Linda an alcoholic.

I go to chat rooms or even the coffee pot if I want to act like a cartoon character or a stuffed bear. I like to come here for experience, strength and hope.


Member: Jerry M
Location: Portland Or
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 2:45:58 PM

Comments

Well, I am not feeling very apart of AA or life period. I had a great emotional week with family who are still in their diease. It was the most demanding situation I have run across in my recovery process. My strength comes from God. my hope is I may have more confidence in myself and not live in fear so much and live not in the fear mode but in the confidence mode. If you get what I mean. I hear people who share there stories about the love in AA I do not feel it. I go to meetings where is it. What is my part in all this? Dazed and confused for so long. I am stressed out to the maximum.


Member: michelle M.hugnut           
Location: Costa Mesa, Ca
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 2:57:31 PM

Comments

Hi, Michelle, alcoholic. Haven't been here in months. Decided to read all postings. I gotta admit, almost nodded out till morty pontificated. When I first got sober, I thought I should make amends without help. Wrote a rather lengthy generic letter of amends to everyone I knew. I (ha ha, accidently showed one of the 47 copies to my long sober friend) She read it and very kindly recommended that I save it till I was sober a year and in the meantime get a sponsor. I am delighted at this moment that I didn't own a computer! I continue to be in love with God. My daughter is somewhere on the streets, her 33 birthday is today. After a 3 year trudge , my granddaughter adopted eachother on July 17. The grace of God is our partner. I am so aware that without my sobriety God never would have put me on his list of caregivers. I recall that while drinking I had a lot of complaints. Controlling the lives of others was my life.When all my efforts failed, I poured a tall one and said that if you had my life you would drink too. I was gifted with sobriety. 3 mos later my only son was diagnosed with AIDS. I was allowed by GOD to hold him in my arms as he died. I did not drink. 2 years passed. I decided to go to work. I got breast cancer had surgery, and recovered. I did not have to drink. 4 years passed. I was in nursing school when my unmarried daughter told me she was pregnant. I did not drink. I thought things were going to smooth out and I would be able to work as a nurse when my husband of 34 years said seeya. I did not have to drink. The baby was born and at 3 mos developed seizures and other health problems. I dedicated my days to staying sober and helping my mentally ill daughter take care of her baby. I did not drink. I eventually was required to report my own daughter to CPS because she put the baby at risk. I DID NOT DRINK. A year later they finally took action. During all those times you would find me in the meetings of AA. Down in the trenches with the veteran soldiers of sobriety. Today I DO NOT HAVE TO DRINK! That's it, right? I thank you for letting me talk.(((((hugnut))))


Member: Joseph O
Location: Israel
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 3:26:12 PM

Comments

I know for my part, and what worked for me in the rooms of AA, that I would not have gotten anywhere without the spiritual part of the AA program! I found out that I really had no understanding of God at all! So I had to start from scratch and get to learning what God is truly all about! And so I continued on as I was taught by AA people, and AA literature, such as the Big Book. I was told we had to grow along spiritual lines, and in the beginning I had no idea what that even meant! So I had to learn the hard way. AA has changed horribly since I was first introduced to it, many years ago. You hear people saying "AA isn't a church," and to that I agree! In fact I would go into a bar before I would go into a church, and be around more honest company!! But what turns me and a lot of others off, and drives them out the door, is that AA is now got God-haters in it! I don't hate God, He got me sober! The devil hates God too, and he drove me to drink!! So figure it out for yourself!

How about making amends to the people that are being both driven out the door, and back to drink?

Joseph O


Member: doug
Location: ore
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 3:45:32 PM

Comments

jerry m, i know how you feel.i too am in that same boat.it feels like a very large sinking ship and im going down with it slowly but surely it seems like.ive been clean and sober now 8mos.i still cant get my life back together,no job,is-olation,ect. doug


Member: Bill M.
Location: Southeast Georgia
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 5:13:01 PM

Comments

Hello U.K. and all. Can't believe how well you are all doing in the UK without me. Enjoyed Brighton, until they blew up the hotel I stayed in. Derek sounds as though he is not only doing well but doing it consistantly. In London,(Chelsea) we started a meeting at the corner of Kings Road and Radinor Walk in the church across from Charter Clinic. The one I enjoyed more than any other was down town think it was the Akron Group, met on Saturday nite. I was looking at my Where to find it list the other night. I save everything. Considering my judgement and just how bad it was, went I got to AA, I asked for the help of a sponsor, who referred me to the sponsor I have today I never liked him, but I love him. He has never made a mistake in helping me with my life these past years. I haven't alway had a lot of respect for the long timers. Today I know that I have learned many other things the hard way too. When I turned my will and life over to the care of God as I understand him, I found a peace that I did not know existed. He is the main stay of my support group. Given with the illness I came to AA with I needed all the help I could get. I try to remember that each person I meet has something I need to know. and on and on he went - sorry.


Member: Joey B
Location: Cambian
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 5:14:24 PM

Comments

There ya go again....Joseph O...preaching that religious nonsense to us and spewing words of condemnation because not all of us think like you!! Get off of your high horse and realize that there are those out there who do not have a basic belief in god. Just because we don't have the god thing down right away does not mean we are god haters...So get off of your self serving pulpit and listen for a change. The program calls for us to eventually obtain a belief that there is a higher power out there that is greater than ourselves....Your stupid generalization that those who do not believe are god haters is narrow mindedness at it's best! Get a clue you yo yo! There is room for all of us here in the rooms of AA. If you want religion then go to church but knock off the AA bashing just because some of us don't believe in the same god you do!!!!


Member: heavenly
Location: father from above
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 5:42:34 PM

Comments

joey,joey,

this is GOD speaking to you via/cyber space/via heaven.you be nice or else i will have to send lighting bolts through your computer.

the man


Member: jd
Location:
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 7:44:44 PM

Comments

ah yes.......good ole "musterd seed" faith!!!!!!


Member: uda
Location:
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 7:53:22 PM

Comments

where is everyone?????????????????

is anyone home????????????????

is today a holiday???????????????????

hellllllllllllllllllllllllllllp!!!!!!!!!!!


Member: Bob S.
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 10:18:39 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Bob and I'm an alcoholic. Not sure what the topic is but read: anger, preaching, and reacting to everybody else's comments. Not sure but believe I reveal much about myself (things I think, the way I think, my spiritual balance or not, etc.) by what I say and how I respond to things I hear and see. My responses and reactions are statements about me, not about you. This began to get clearer about Step 7. For whatever reason I began seeing that we were all doing as well as we could at the time, in each moment, all God' kids doin' the daily drill the best we could...sometimes 'stylin' and sometimes looking real bad, dependent upon the maintenance of my spiritual condition. I am old now, I mean literally. Don't have as much energy to resist, combat, be competitive with the world. It's an advantage for me but without the guidance of AA, the fellowship (you), God as I understand (him/her?), and accepting that I just do not know, things get better in my life. Oh, Uda, yes, someone is out here and not "on holiday". kSobered up in So. Cal. in '83 and now in SLC. Life is beautiful and so are you. Love yu all, brothers and sisters. Thanks for the time and space.


Member: Becky
Location: California
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 11:17:47 PM

Comments

Hey, this is Becky, and I'm an alcoholic.

I hope everyone's been having a terrific weekend.

Even with family, etc. I've remained sober one more day. Does anybody else out there still get these terrible cravings? Man, sometimes I just really want a drink. Help!!!!!

That's when I remember something someone said in a meeting or even here, and it helps get me over the hump. Just one day at a time I say between gritted teeth!

Hey, whatever happened to Rick and Morty? A few people (including me)kinda laid into you guys. Rick, I think you might have been new, so I hope this stuff didn't just blow you away.

Last thing. As for you guys and your talk about religion, I want to help you make a distinction. Religion is a set of beliefs that people agree to live by. Spirituality is what exists within each one of us. A person doesn't have to go to church or belong to a particular religion to express the spiritual side of themselves. Oh, and by the way, God is not a bad word. And when people talk about God, it does not necessarily mean they are preaching or talking about religion.

Anyway, thanks for being here. See ya!


Member: uda
Location:
Date: 9/3/00
Time: 11:37:44 PM

Comments

hi bob s,hi becky and everyone,have a beautifull weekend, and another safe and sober 24.

uda(usually depressed allthetime)