Member: Glen
Location: Denton TX
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 8:22:39 AM
I'd like to hear us discuss "respect for and helping each other". After all, we're here for only 70-80 years at best. If you're like me, you squandered some of those, and it's important to make the best use possible of what remains.
Member: You're Kidding
Location: Right?
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 8:22:54 AM
StayingCyber remains committed to the Third Tradition, that the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. We also remain committed to the freedom of individual expression
Member: You're Kidding
Location: Right?
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 8:23:02 AM
StayingCyber remains committed to the Third Tradition, that the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. We also remain committed to the freedom of individual expression
Member: Let's Talk About
Location: This
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 8:29:06 AM
You mean you're committed to the individual expression as long as it's YOUR version of what constitutes AA unity! You alone, not AA, you techs, that's obvious. Otherwise, why CENSOR posts, ANONYMOUS or not? Isn't AA unity based in part on ANONYMITY? It is in real AA, but apparently not here, right? Doesn't matter if the person has a desire to quit drinking or not--half of us got to AA with the idea of either controlling or slowing down, did we not? Doesn't the little book say somewhere that is the greatest desire of every alcoholic? So you can't even express that idea without being CENSORED and having your ANONYMITY BROKEN around here, huh? Well, let us see..........
Member: Let's Talk About
Location: This
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 8:29:27 AM
You mean you're committed to the individual expression as long as it's YOUR version of what constitutes AA unity! You alone, not AA, you techs, that's obvious. Otherwise, why CENSOR posts, ANONYMOUS or not? Isn't AA unity based in part on ANONYMITY? It is in real AA, but apparently not here, right? Doesn't matter if the person has a desire to quit drinking or not--half of us got to AA with the idea of either controlling or slowing down, did we not? Doesn't the little book say somewhere that is the greatest desire of every alcoholic? So you can't even express that idea without being CENSORED and having your ANONYMITY BROKEN around here, huh? Well, let us see..........
Member: Mike H
Location: Jackson Michigan
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 8:48:07 AM
While drinking I had no respect for myself or others. As long as I had alcohol and money I thought I was self-sufficient and didn't need anyone. The only time I helped others was to replenish my supply of these two items. Now I do what I can, when I can, to help my fellow man. I ask for nothing in return except that they "pass it on". I no longer have "fair-weather friends". I have people in my life I can trust and they trust me. Life is a lot more enjoyable now.
Member: DB
Location: KC
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 8:54:43 AM
Im dave alcoholic. staying on this topic, commonwelfare, that is our goal. but all the traditions are need to make this work. that is each group has there own way of running there group. if you dont like this group you can go to another or start your own, we hope the best for any one who has the desire to stop drinking. Love AA Love the Group Love God. Sun Never Goes Down On AA Thank God.
Member: Marv L
Location:
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 9:15:53 AM
Hi,Im Marv,recovering alcoholic,grateful for a life-saving program I came into 22 years ago today..THANK YOU for your care and understanding and sharing your experience,strength and hope.. (A warm greeting too,for Az-Bill, who started his sobriety two days earlier than I.) Good topic,and we do need reminding sometimes that we know only a little,and that what we do know was painfully learned on the anvil of experience with alcohol. Sometimes I think we overlook the importance of the next two words following the "How It Works" text we read in meetings: "Being convinced" --seems to take more convincing for some,huh?? Been a wonderful thing to be a part of AA these years,words cant say how much I appreciate the fact that you stuck to your primary purpose,and made a beleiver outta me!!Glad we have this forum for sharing our E S & H--we wish for all that if alcoholism has beaten you up like it did to us,that you join us as we trudge the road to a happy destiny!!!
Member: Ron L.
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 9:38:43 AM
Thumbs up for our techs, maybe now we can get back to our primary purpose, and not have to put up with all the negitive anti. A.A. posts that are so disruptive to those of us who love the A.A. program.
Member: Robert H.
Location: Columbus, OH.
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 10:41:03 AM
Hi, I'm Robert, and I'm an alcoholic. I think sometimes that the only thing that kept me sober at times was helping another person. It helped my to stay focused on what was important. Plus, sometimes we know what to tell others, but we don't know what to tell ourselves. But, when we get involved, we can remind ourselves of the daily principles that we live by, and help ourselves to live by them. www.alcoholrecovery.net
Member: Kathleen G.
Location: Akron, OH
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 11:09:19 AM
Hi-I'm Kathleen (alcoholic & addict). Having respect for our fellow AArs is essential to the foundation of organization in the sense that we profess "principles before personalities". Wherever an individual may be in their sobriety should be of no consequence to the rest of us who are encouraged (no, required)to reach out that helping hand.We claim progress rather than perfection; spiritually or otherwise. I have seen the sickest of people come into the program & with the aid of the AA program & with the shared "experience, strength & hope" of fellow alcoholics-have blossomed into shining examples of when we do the right things, the right things happen. In keeping w/ the principles of AA as set up by Dr.Bob & friends, we best serve others with our examples & encouragement.(Attraction rather than promotion.) Sharing in discussion meetings, lending a listening ear,sponsorship may seem like small contributions: but these could possibly save anothers'life.
Member: Cindy S
Location:
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 11:15:53 AM
Hi, I'm Cindy, multi-addict in recovery. I'm new here. I just finished doing a 2nd 4th step and stepped out into the real world of work to stumble right into a problem involving someone else. I watched myself inadvertently hurting someone else's feelings with this new sensitivity my hp seems to be finally able to give me. It was pretty amazing! Of course, he quickly gave me amends and a solution that involved me helping the other person more, providing more positive feedback to her, and letting her shine in the limelight more. For the first time in 2 years, I'm excited about the possiblity of good working relationships in my job. The problems really were of my own making! I think of service as a program thing, but it's also working to think of my job as a service position. Thanks to everyone for being here!
Member: R. H. D.
Location: U. S. A.
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 12:46:31 PM
Excellent topic, Glen (Isn't Denton where Mean Joe Greene played football - North Texas State?). "Respect for others" is so important. As has been said here, a person active in his addiction is only concerned about himself. Nothing else matters but feeding that addiction. Unfortunately, I see a lot of that in A.A. The main offenders are the smokers. They sit in meetings and profess their "sobriety" when in fact they can't live one hour without their precious fix. They have no respect for others whatsoever. If someone says something about their smoking, they say "If you don't like it, go to another group." They don't even consider putting their addiction on hold for 60 minutes so as to not offend another person. Is that the ultimate demonstration of self-centeredness or what? I have seen countless people trying to honestly get clean and sober run out of the rooms of A.A. by these people. In our state, it is against the law to even smoke in public, and that includes A.A. groups. But the smokers, in the true tradition of self-centeredness, argue that they are "above the law" because A.A. groups are autonomous. If you're an A.A. member and are still addicted to nicotine, first try and get clean and sober. If you're unable to do that, please respect the rights of others (the right to breath clean air unpolluted by poisonous smoke) for at least the one hour that an A.A. meeting lasts. That is the bare minimum "respect for others" entails. Thanks again for the great topic Glen.
Member: RICHARD M
Location: SARASOTA , FLA.
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 2:49:41 PM
hello my name is richard m ...i am an alcoholic..my sobriety date is .dec 28, 1985................yes.... the tradition 1 is vital and i do remain commited to it..for wherever two or more alcoholics are gathered together .for """" NO """" other purpose.then we are doing what we are supposed to do..........one of the reasons i enjoy this site .is we really are doing that .....i log on here to stay sober and help another alcoholic...here . i or we do not have to read or associate in any other way ..with some one who is not an alcoholic.............i use a library computer and do not forget my " face to face" .meetings...................one day at a time as bill said....perhaps to day he would have really apprecited a comp system as we know to day.........love peace and happiness to aLL.........
Member: bill b
Location: upstate ny
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 3:47:52 PM
what is the topic anyway? Is it self-centerdness or live and let live. We arehere to recover from alcoholism not cigeretism,but seeing that someone is trying to play God and run the whole show and try to piss we smokers off you are just lame!!!!...
Member: Geri W
Location: Ohio
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 4:52:20 PM
Respect for others. Wow, what a topic. It's been a few days since I've had a drink and I have learned to respect almost everyone. I have to admit that there are those I just haven't gotten to yet - like Ben Laden, Sadaam and other tyrants. Almost everyone else has something about them I can respect - even if it it's not within my belief system. I know I respect the part of anyone who is trying to get and stay sober. I've seen struggles far more difficult than mine and they did it. So, if you're attempting to stop drinking, the hand of AA is there for you, just like it was for me - and that's a good thing.
Member: Ryan
Location: Portales NM
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 5:00:56 PM
The topic is "respect for others" and "helping each other." As Mike H from Michigan noted, when one is feeding his addiction, he has no respect for himself or others. This goes equally well for drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, snorting cocaine, using any drug. In the end, it's all the same. For one to take offense at a request that smokers keep their addiction under some type of control so as not to hurt others is the same as an active alcoholic taking offense at a request to act responsibly. We all take offense when someone points out the error of our ways, because our addiction does the thinking for us instead of a rational brain. I did the same thing when I used to drink - get defensive, get mad, make irrational statements. If you smoke and don't have a desire to get clean and sober, that's your decision. But, please do take some responsibility for your abhorrent behavior if you are going to continue smoking. Do not smoke at AA meetings, because people come there to get clean and sober, not to be exposed to cancer causing second hand smoke. Thank you to those of you smokers who are responsible enough to think of others before you light up.
Member: David
Location: Nashvile
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 7:12:30 PM
When I was still out there drinking most of my problems with others was caused by my selfish self will and self centered thinking. And wouldnt you know it i surrounded myself with people just like me. Drunken selfish a$$@&%s, who wanted to get drunk 24/7 no matter what. I had no respect for myself or others unless you had something I wanted. Today some of that has slipped away just a tad but My relationships with others has gotten so much better. its all in those steps for me. No Im not some pacifist or peacenick yet. Im not a doormat either. I just am willing to let people be who they are a little more and i take my own inventory a little more too. And Im willing to do things for others that cant do anything for me in return.
Member: DB
Location: CA
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 7:35:32 PM
Great topic, I just read and try and learn.
Member: B.J.
Location: South Carolina
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 8:06:01 PM
I Love it whenI can be so unselfish of others today. I was so caught up into the me-ism thing and I just did't relize how much so until I found AA. The longer I stay sober the less I see I know....My lifes not my business anyway today.........
Member: Pam B - Sobergirl91 at hotmail.com
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 11:01:41 PM
Hi, I'm Pam - an alcoholic. Getting sober & growing in these Steps has stopped the self-destructive dis-respectful behaviors toward myself - learning to live the 12 Steps in action & to do the next right thing has developed self-respect - I've learned to take responsibility for my own actions rather than place myself into jeapordazing unacceptable places or situations to then (dishonestly) blame others for - >>>>> (which would include that if I'm a non-smoker that cares to save my health from exposure to 2nd-hand smoke, then I don't go to smoking mtgs. I respect that 'smoking-mtgs' are FOR smokers/non-smoking AA mtgs are FOR non-smokers. I do not disrespect that. If there are no alternative non-smoking mtgs available, participate in your Home Group's monthly Group-Conscience Business Mtg & nominate a vote to change it to a non-smoking - or - all it takes is a resentment & a coffee to start a new mtg.)>>>>>> Thru learning to care about myself w/self-respect, I have become caring about others & respectful of them >>>>>> I've discovered that by giving respect to others - what goes around comes around - I get respect in return. Thanks for being here & for letting me share. Pam
Member: Mary F.
Location: MD
Date: 8/24/2003
Time: 11:03:22 PM
Great topic!!
Member: Mallory
Location: NY
Date: 8/25/2003
Time: 12:30:21 AM
Ha, Ha, this is funny! I'm not a smoker but I can see both sides of the argument pretty clearly. As a mtter of fact it fits right in with the topic because I not only respect the smokers although I'm not one, it's sort of their right to be stupid. I mean my theory and practice during drinking was always to smoke something that was going to get me high, not just kill me. It's really stupid to just smoke nicotine, but whatever, that is their right and I respect it, but the funny thing is, I don't really think that's "helping" them. Know what I mean?
Member: Titus
Location: Northern Canada
Date: 8/25/2003
Time: 7:56:30 AM
Smoking eh! on an A.A. web site. What ever happened to our primary purpose? Well heres my thoughts on smoking now that carry the message has been lost in all the smoke... When I smoked and it got in my eyes, it activates the tear ducks and its like having a good healthy cry... Smoke clogs up my nasal passages and while others are gasping on foul odors Im able to carry on my merry ole way... Smoking dulls my taste buds so the taste of food is not important. While others have eating disorders I have saved mega bucks being slim and trim... I never get blisters on me fingers cause Im protected by those brown stains... Great songs have been written about smoking.. On top of old smoky, Smoke gets in your eyes, Smoke smoke smoke that cigarette. Just to name a few." Guess what." I gave up smoking and now I find myself over weight. walking around dry eyed and will need glasses. smelling and gasping on fowl odors. trying to sing and remember the words to those songs that bring back those good ole days. Oh well back to our primary purpose love you
Member: Jerry N.
Location: c.city, Tx.
Date: 8/25/2003
Time: 9:01:39 AM
I,ve found in my recovery, since Aug. 2001, that I have to try to change the way I perceive life itself to be happy. If I'm happy, I'm grateful, if I'm grateful I don't need to alter my emotional state to handle life. I have found that love and tolerance of my fellow man becomes easier as I try to do the things in A.A. that the vast majority of happy recovering alcoholics have shared with me. Getting out of my old selfish self and thinking of\helping others is the most helpful tool I've found.
Member: Craig L (Dogmanor@yahoo.com)
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Date: 8/25/2003
Time: 10:42:58 AM
Craig here another "real alcoholic" (page 21). Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, a researcher in after life experiences noted that many of those who were clinically dead and came back, claimed to have been asked 2 questions. "How much did you Love?" and "How much did you help? This thought used to terrify me, when I was active in my disease. I did not Love anyone and I certainly never helped. Today, thanks to AA and the 12 steps, those questions do not scare me. Today I Trust in God and I know anyone still breathing can have the same faith with the help of the steps, the fellowship and God.
Member: lkg
Location: usa
Date: 8/25/2003
Time: 10:45:59 AM
I think respectful disagreement with other posters is o.k. The orientation of this board is toward recovering people or those making an attempt. For most of use AA serves as our foundation. Discussions here should be kept to alcohol related problems/solutions within the framework of AA. This board is titled "AA Meetings on the WWW". Thats the context for this board. Anyway, I'm sober today thanks to my AA program and my HP. Take care everyone.
Member: Beto L
Location: Tampico, Mexico
Date: 8/25/2003
Time: 12:47:45 PM
Early in my recovery I was frustrated (for years) because nobody ever asked me to be their sponsor. Looking back on it I see that we had some pretty sharp newcomers back then. I found that I couldn't help anyone to get past where I was, and I was so looney tunes nutty when I got sober that most newcomers were already in better shape than I was. In order to help others, I had to work on my own recovery. That meant working the steps. Step twelve comes at the end of the steps, and begins: "Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message..." First I needed to work the steps before I knew what "this message" was. One of the things that took me the longest to learn is that it is not helpful to others to co-sign their malarkey.
Member: Billy Joe
Location: DFW
Date: 8/25/2003
Time: 3:58:11 PM
Interesting topic, y'all, and entertaining. I must agree with Mallory that smoking it stupid, but what drug addiction isn't? We have the same problem here in Dallas. The City Council passed an ordinance banning all indoor smoking. The smokers in the group I sometimes attend just ignore the law, making up excuse after excuse why it doesn't apply to them. It's the same as when an alcoholic drives drunk, they don't care about anyone but themself. If someone doesn't want their health harmed, then stay off the road. Same thing with nicotine addicts. If you don't like smoke, go somewhere else. All drug addictions are the same - booze, cigs, coke, smack, you name it. And all who are addicted are the same - drunks, buttheads, junkies, all the same. If you got a problem, get some help. Until you do, do no harm to others. Sounds simple enough to me. Y'all take care.
Member: Bob
Location:
Date: 8/25/2003
Time: 4:07:33 PM
Hi Bob here - alcoholic. Respect for others includes respect for those who think AA is a pile of shit. I don't but at one time I sat at the back of the rooms and did. Fortunately I stayed. I have some tolerance for those alcoholics who bitch at AA meetings "AA just doesn't work!!" All I can say is keep coming back - eventually the light will dawn. As the book says 'If you like what we've got AND are willing to go to any lengths to get it..." Like.. How far do you want to run from Hell? Thanks & God Bless.
Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 8/25/2003
Time: 7:53:00 PM
Hi. Bill here, Alcoholic from Arizona. Thank you Marv L. for your warm greeting..Same to ya.. Ain't it great? In order to gain anyone's respect I have to show respectability. I will respect you as a human being and will never cross your boundaries provided you set them ahead of time. If you reach out for help, I would be concerned, relate to, and be considerate of your feelings. I want to be the hand of AA that reaches out to you. But if I cannot help for some valid reason I will respect you enough to say "I don't know, but let's try to find out together. When I come to an AA meeting I will find out your group conscience. Whether I agree or disagree is unimportant. And that is about as far as I will go. I fully realize that coming into AA does not make that person a candidate for sainthood. That is especially true for me. Respect is earned and not a given. And I fully understand both letters in the word NO !! :) Thanks Bill
Member: Yeah I smoke and I'm sober
Location: read page 135 in the big book
Date: 8/26/2003
Time: 10:17:46 AM
Well I suppose we have a bunch of alcoholics that ran to AA cause they just couldn't stand the smoke in the bars anymore :) If I were accused of being an AA member, with love and tolerance as our code, what would the proof be?
Member: mike
Location: mount forest,ont canada
Date: 8/26/2003
Time: 2:30:20 PM
Hi am Mike greatful recovering alcoholic. I had to first admit I had a problem. I couldn't solve the problem if I didn't admit I had a problem. While drinking I had dug myself a pretty big hole. This consisted of numerous loss of friends and family. Numerous trips to jail, hospitals.It is not easy and sometimes I slip but as long as I keep trying I will one day be out of my hole and on to a better life. Just working the steps has given me a better life than I could ever imagined. Even now I have to remember things that I have done in the past and see the changes that I have started to make in my life with the help of the group and HP.
Member: Leland
Location:
Date: 8/26/2003
Time: 4:36:41 PM
Mike, thanks for your post. Sometimes I end up making this thing way too complicated. A former sponsor of mine would tell me to dummy up. In other words, keep it simple. Indeed, if I don't drink today I have a chance to have a conscious contact with an HP. In turn, I can be a channel, selflessly bring something to a meeting, to work, to the highways, wherever. For some reason, I'm uncomfortable with being sober to be good. It isn't why I came here or why I stay here. If anything I stay to be happy, joyous and free. As a result, all the other things come.
Member: Milton
Location: PA
Date: 8/26/2003
Time: 5:15:58 PM
HELPING EACH OTHER is a good topic. The discussion about smoking is a good example of helping others. In a recent study in the Lancet, the journal of the British Medical Association, addicted patients were injected with nicotine, heroin, and cocaine. With few exceptions, they could not tell the difference. The scientific conclusion is that addiction to nicotine, heroin, and cocaine is basically the same. We must remember that all those who habitaully use these drugs, including those in Alcoholics Anonymous who smoke, are sick, just as we were sick when we drank. We should approach them in the manner that we would approach any sick alcoholic, with love and kindness, but with the clear message that their addiction will result in their death if left untreated. We should let them know that they do not have to live life chained to the addiction of tobacco, heroin, or cocaine, but that by aligning their life with the will of God and by following the steps they can live a life drug free. I am sure that any of us who have been in Alcoholics Anonymous for any amount of time have lost some members that we loved to both smoking and other drug addictions. We should do what we can to help these sick members to get well, lest they should leave us too early. But, we should remember that those who smoke are suffering from a drug addiction that is the same as heroin addiction. While their behavior is unacceptable, we must realize that their addiction is controlling their lives and only love and understanding will work to get them well, just as we were healed by love and understanding. For those of us who have completely recovered from all drug addicitons, be it alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, or any other drug, it is our responsibility to help our fellow Alcoholic Anonymous members who are still sick. May everyone live a substance free life today. Thanks for letting me share.
Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 8/26/2003
Time: 6:11:54 PM
Hi. Bill here. Alcoholic from Arizona. I rarely post twice in the same week. But now, the rest of the story. :) First let me quote, in part, Tradition 5.. "Each group has but one primary purpose--to carry the message to the alcoholic that still suffers." and "...better to do one thing supremely well than many badly." In AA we deal with alcoholism. Smoking and other addictions are outside issues, even though drug addiction may be considered our "sister" addiction. Now for those in AA who like to "play doctor". I used to work with the quad and paraplegic patient (these are the men and women who have lost their legs; and can never grow new ones. p30 big book)I hold a degree in my field and am published. That is my qualifier. It was decided by the attending physicians that it be better to deal with one thing at a time. The shock of being confined to a wheel chair for the rest of their lives took precedence over the smoking addiction. Smoking patients were allowed to smoke but in restricted areas. To further qualify myself. I quit smoking successfully in 1994. I was 13 years sober. I did not use AA or a 12 step program, I used a stop smoking clinic. I dealt with my alcoholism first and my smoking next. My main concern here is the reason I decided to post. In AA we simply cannot deal with outside issues. This is a gross tradition break. I apologize if I have offended anyone. Thanks Love you all Bill
Member: Marilyn B.
Location: Long Beach, Ca.
Date: 8/26/2003
Time: 6:19:15 PM
I feel sorry for Mr. Just kidding, he must be so lonely. He write things and then responds as if he were someone else. I am so gratefull that I have friends, family and loved ones that I can focus on and I owe it all to God and the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. marilynblauvelt@hotmail.com
Member: Gayla
Location: OKC
Date: 8/26/2003
Time: 6:57:37 PM
Hi, I'm an alcoholic, my name is Gayla. As far as I can tell, the 12 traditions are all about respect for others and helping each other. From Tradition 1, our common welfare (do I try to sincerely help others no matter who or what they are or would I rather gossip and create animosity?) to my favorite, Tradition 12. I've heard people say that they may not know the right thing to do, but they certainly know what the wrong thing to do is! For me today I know that I am grateful to be sober by the unmerited grace of a merciful God. AA certainly works for me.
Member: Jeff K. - 14 years
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Date: 8/26/2003
Time: 9:28:57 PM
I'm sorry I thought this was AA. Somehow I got on the Smoke Enders website. Blessed Be, Jeff
Member: Cleaves J
Location: Southern CA formally england
Date: 8/27/2003
Time: 12:36:06 AM
I have lied to my sponsor and husband and have not gone to a meeting in 2wks in have 2 yrs and my father hust died aand I end up crying...still sober
Member: Regina Saskatchewan
Location:
Date: 8/27/2003
Time: 6:14:33 AM
Don... alcoholic, You know Cleaves I was a lier all my life. I have been in A.A. a long time and some times or maybe quit often I still lie, If I were to list all the defects that I have improved on ( and I don't lie as ofen as I use to ) I would see a big improvement in my life. Even as a little kid and cause I had no parents every time I was caught doing some thing wrong I was beat up. so to protect myself I never would admit to doing any thing wrong. Later in life I would commit perjury on the bible in court. So here I am in A.A. trying to live one day at a time. I don't beat myself up when I lie( that would be just like the people who raised me did ) instead I try to live each day better than the day before. We are not saints. so don't judge your self or compare your self to those who seem to be spiritual giants. guilt can send me back to the bottle. So I lie and guess what... they still love the hell out of me here in the program. So get back to where you belong. and are excepted for being just human. Go to a meeting today
Member: Sam
Location: Garden Grove
Date: 8/27/2003
Time: 11:10:10 AM
Sam, here, alcoholic. Nice post AZBill. You made some good points on the discussion here. I would agree with you that when someone has suffered a trumatic and life changing injury, such as becoming paraplegic or quadraplegic, precedence should be placed on their recovery from such a severe injury. If these poor folks also suffer from a drug addiction, that can wait a short time to be addressed. That is a completely different situation from the one in which a person is already in a recovery program for alcoholism or another drug addiction. In that case, the focus should be on the elimination of all drug addictions, be it smoking or opiates or whatever, so that the person makes a full recovery and not just a partial recovery from his addiciton. I also appreciate your point that those unfortunate patients who had lost the use of their limbs were only allowed to smoke in restricted areas. I agree with the professional opinion of yourself and the attending physicians that it is always necessary to take measures to separate those who smoke for the protection of others. Your point is well taken and I agree that smokers should not smoke at meetings of AA. Also, I congratulate you on recognizing that you had problems with both alcohol and smoking and taking the appropriate action to remove these addictions from your life. Kudos! Your use of a stop smoking clinic reminds of Bill's statement on page 164 that more will be revealed. 12 step programs such as Alcoholics Anonymous, Nicotine Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, etc. are only one way to attack the problem. Today, there are many programs an addicted person may use to overcome his addiction to alcohol, tobacco, opiates, whatever. It's the result that counts, as you well point out. Thanks for your enlightenment.
Member: Harry M
Location: Chicago
Date: 8/27/2003
Time: 1:05:58 PM
I once knew a lady who came to A.A. for her drinking problem. She also went to fatty's anonymous, cocain anonymous, N.A. - S.A. - E.A. - G.A. - sex anonymous - alanon, and A.C.O.A. She had 120 step to follow each day. and if you think that she was over worked.... WHICH OF HER ADDICTIONS WOULD YOU SUGGEST SHE NOT WORK ON.???? As for me Id say let the poor girl have a smoke she needs it.
Member: Susan A.
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
Date: 8/27/2003
Time: 2:10:36 PM
Hi All, I'm Susan and I'm an Alcoholic. That means I have Alcoholism. 'ISM' not 'WASM'. I work the program of AA to recover from Alcoholism, and by doing so, I get Sober and learn how to live Sober. Quality and depth of Sobriety keep growing (and vary widely), and with more honesty and growth in sober living, I can recover in LOTS of other areas, ie. smoking, lying, overeating, self-centeredness, family relations, spending, temper tantrums, ad infinitum if I choose (which, thanks god, I do). Recovery in these areas are NOT pre-requisites to sobriety, and YES I get annoyed at the interminable discussions on the topics. It's strange to me to see us saying "let's stick to the topic", then rant on about smoking, etc. And, now I've done it, too. Sheesh. About respect (great topic), my sponsor had me look it up in the dictionary to get a real meaning for me to use. I needed to start being "willing to show consideration or appreciation" and "avoid violation or interference with". To myself, my (not quite at the time) ex-husband, child, sponsor, everyone. Very hard, especially when I felt hurt or scared, or didn't like or agree with what you were doing/thinking/saying. Kind of like praying for the guy who cuts you off on the freeway, that he gets where he's going safely, and thanks for making me more aware. Weird at first. I LOVE the 'helping others' part of this, it's taught me an entire new way of living and brought friendships and purpose that will last my entire life. Finally, I want to echo what was said above about "THANK YOU, TECHS" for both your respect, and your assistance. Love to all, from one sober horsethief to another.
Member: Lurkin
Location: About
Date: 8/27/2003
Time: 7:58:19 PM
Hey, while we're at it, let's just say that you can't drink coffee and be sober either. Plus that way we would be sure to have absolutely NOBODY left in AA and we could all go back to being good little drinklings again, eh? Would all you anti-smokers be happy then?
Member: Cowboy
Location: Oklahoma
Date: 8/28/2003
Time: 12:00:08 AM
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, Chicago Man! 120 steps a day! That's funny! But, since alcohol, tobacco, and cocaine are all addictive drugs and will kill ya for sure, and since obesity will kill ya too (fattys anonymous, shame on you!), I say skip the sex addicts meeting. At least if you use protection, sex won't kill ya like the others and you can have some fun while yur at it!
Member: Pam B - Sobergirl91 at hotmail.com
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Date: 8/28/2003
Time: 12:13:29 AM
Harry - it sounds like "Stuart Saves His Family" - a movie that I find hilarious every time I see it again >>>> was just dropping by to see how the smoking-debate is going or if we'd finally gotten on to being an AA mtg in here. Oh well - can't have everything - (where would ya put it all?) - am grateful the other pages are back on track. Prayers for us all & xtras for those still sick & suffering. Love Pam
Member: Bikerbabe
Location: Gather round now kiddies...
Date: 8/28/2003
Time: 2:04:47 AM
Hello all you awesome beautiful alcoholics.. i love you all so much, kissy wissy, huggie wuggie.. smotchie wotchie.. well,,, any how.. got a little story for ya.. here goes. THERE WAS RUMOR OF A VERY VICIOUS TYPHOON, DUE TO HIT A SMALL AND HUMBLE SEASIDE VILLAGE.. why don't we call the place "Bill's Ville)) SO IN BILLSVILLE "BILL ... DECIDED THAT HE WAS GOING TO DEMONSTRATE HIS INCREDIBLE FAITH IN HIMSELF AND HIS HIGHER POWER. TO DO THIS HE WOULD STRAP HISELF TO A PALM TREE, RIGHT DOWN ON THE BEACH IN HARMS WAY OF THE COMING TYPHOON , WELL SURE AS SUGAR, THE RAGING TYPHOON HITS. FULL FORCE, THE WICKEDEST MOST HAD EVER SEEN. AND THERE WAS BILL; STRAPPED TO THE TREE, AND JUST LIKE HE HAD BRAGGED EARLIER, HE WASN'T BUDGING, NOTHING WAS BEYOND HIS FAITH, AND HIS HIGHER POWER. SUDDENLY TO THE HORRIFIED SHOCK OF THE TOWNS PEOPLE.. A VOLVO FLEW CLEAR ACROSS THE SKY AND SQUASHED POOR BILL TILL HE LOOKED LIKE SO MANY JELLY FISH ON THE BEACH.. THE MORAL OF THE STORY... FOLKS: IT AINT "HOW THE WIND IS BLOWIN; IT 'S "WHAT" THE WIND IS BLOWIN the end.....
Member: maggs
Location: wa
Date: 8/28/2003
Time: 11:15:14 AM
you've got to help yourself before you canhelp anyone else.
Member: Kim D.
Location: Bridgewater
Date: 8/28/2003
Time: 3:40:01 PM
((Glen)) Your topic, for me, can be summed up in one sentence (in a non-religious way...) "Do unto others as you would have done unto you."
Member: Stubborn
Location: burlington wi
Date: 8/28/2003
Time: 8:14:51 PM
Hi everybody stubborn here n im an alcoholic,, i know AA has helped me when i really needed it the people at the meetings i was i bad shape n very messed up,AA is a good thing i'm have not went in awhile stopped going bad mistake i know,but the seed is in me and like my call sign im too stuborne,,i have thrown myself into 2 jobs,determined to try to handle things myself i dont find it hard to admit im an alcoholic just going to the meetings regularly..theres n open speaker meeting saturdays that has a speaker those are good i would like to say more but not today im thankful 4 AA and what its nonselfish members have done o help me when i was 2 messed up to think clearly...
Member: Mr Pitt
Location: montana
Date: 8/28/2003
Time: 10:04:35 PM
good one bikerbabe! is this a smokers meeting?????????????
Member: psh
Location: wb
Date: 8/28/2003
Time: 10:59:51 PM
Hi! I am Pam, an alcoholic. This may be a little off the topic, but I have relapsed and reallu need input. I had a couple years of sobriety and have gone thru two break ups and have relapsed. I realize that drinking is a coping mechanism for me and just don't want to do it. Any input?
Member: Jean
Location: Idaho
Date: 8/29/2003
Time: 12:31:34 AM
I'm Jean and I'm an alcoholic. I am truly grateful for the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. I am sober for the first time in 25 years. With a little over a year I'm finding happiness and peace. It never would have happened if not for the people in the rooms holding out their hands to me. They taught me about unconditional love and the program of action as outlined in the Big Book has taught me how to live.I have a wonderful sponsor that has spent hours and hours taking me through the steps, helping me discover who and what I am.I have tools now to live a life without drinking as a solution. All it took was acceptance and a willingness to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity. For me it is the easier, softer way. I am also grateful that I have meetings to go to that we actually discuss alcoholism. To be honest with you all if I had to depend on this one I wouldn't be sober very long. I won't be back here but I do wish you all the best.Oh, one last thing, isn't it wonderful that we have choices today? I have a feeling I would have to do A LOT of writing if I ever called someone "stupid" because they make a choice to do something with their life that was different than what I choose to do with mine.Thank God I'm learning to be tolerant of others and how to love unconditionally. What a gift. Maybe your next topic should be about giving up control or "Live and let live." God Bless.
Member: Joe P
Location: Chicago
Date: 8/29/2003
Time: 10:59:27 AM
Sometimes it is hard to improve on what has already been said. This is from Dr. Bob’s last message: “But there are two or three things that flashed into my mind on which it would be fitting to lay a little emphasis; one is the simplicity of our Program. Let's not louse it all up with Freudian complexes and things that are interesting to the scientific mind, but have very little to do with our actual AA work. Our 12 Steps, when simmered down to the last, resolve themselves into the words love and service. We understand what love is and we understand what service is. So let's bear those two things in mind. Let us also remember to guard that erring member - the tongue, and if we must use it, let's use it with kindness and consideration and tolerance. And one more thing; none of us would be here today if somebody hadn't taken time to explain things to us, to give us a little pat on the back, to take us to a meeting or two, to have done numerous little kind and thoughtful acts in our behalf. So let us never get the degree of smug complacency so that we're not willing to extend or attempt to, that help which has been so beneficial to us, to our less fortunate brothers. Thank you very much.”
Member: Carlc
Location: nm
Date: 8/29/2003
Time: 12:30:17 PM
Where in the world do these topics come from? Ricki Lake, Jerry Springer, Oprah, no wonder people are dying in the rooms of AA we keep talking about nonsense instead of the solution.
Member: to Joe P
Location: looking for info
Date: 8/29/2003
Time: 2:30:51 PM
Joe P-- Could you please tell me what page the quote came from? Thanks.
Member: Joe P
Location: Chicago
Date: 8/29/2003
Time: 3:16:14 PM
A Google search using "Dr. Bob's last message" (use the quotes) will get you many possibilities. Here is one: http://www.barefootsworld.net/lastmess.html If the link does not post, try the search yourself on Google.
Member: day day day
Location: chay chay chay
Date: 8/29/2003
Time: 6:03:44 PM
"Respect, and helping each other" 'The end of the commandment, is charity, out of a pure heart' I recall, my former days before step three, that I was as tight fisted as could be. But what a change comes over a man that repents, he has compassion on his fellow man. If he sees one that is poor and sitting next to the store chances are he will give a little or a lot. So, too know, charity has both a giving and a receiving aspect to it; Most are surprised at this: "It is more blessed to give than to receive" and so were told the measure of our effort that "charity out of a pure heart" is to be desired; For the reciever then that is the poor man who is less blessed in a monday, he has the love chapter to his credit: 1st Cor. 13; "Charity suffereth long, is kind, charity envieth not; charity, vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up. Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiecth in the truth. Beareth all things. believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things..See then, how much is to be had for being poor in spirit and faint not at the enduring of such hardness, For God's grace is sufficent for us; And, we want the hand of AA alway to be there, I find that even if I am most always on the receiving end of charity I am given an oppertunity to give from day to day. Lastly I'll say: There is a verse I know that few have attained in AA. The words of Paul: "Have we not power to eat and drink?".. a chay chay chay
Member: Michelle
Location: Big Spring
Date: 8/29/2003
Time: 6:10:12 PM
Hi, Pam. So sorry to hear about your relapse. Not knowing the specifics of your situation, it's hard to give any definitive advice. Put your faith in God and get to work on getting clean and sober. You say you had a couple of years not drinking before your relapse, so you have the requisite knowledge of what to do. I would just say don't beat yourself up too bad. We all make mistakes. Just ask God for forgiveness, forgive yourself, and move forward. Put it behind you and learn from your experience. God Bless You Pam.
Member: Michelle
Location: Big Spring
Date: 8/29/2003
Time: 6:25:27 PM
Hi, Jean. I'm sorry to see you leave this site. But, then we all go to different places, don't we. In reference to your comment about someone calling a person 'stupid,' I did not see that in the posts. I did see some references to the act of smoking being stupid, as opposed to any individuals being labeled stupid. Of course, there is a great difference between calling an "act" stupid and calling a "person" stupid. I think we all agree that smoking is stupid (as well as being self-centered, deadly, unhealthy, dangerous to innocent children and other people, expensive, etc). But, also stupid is drinking in an alcoholic manner or habitually using any other kind of drug. It is important for use to let others know that their "behavior" is stupid. This in no way means that the "person" is stupid. We may not all have the IQ of Albert Einstein, but none of us have to "behave" in a stupid manner, like I used to do when I drank. Hope you come back, Jean.
Member: Michelle
Location: Big Spring
Date: 8/29/2003
Time: 6:37:14 PM
Hey, day day day. Great post. It's nice to see someone use the real Big Book in their life. Like Bill W. said in "As Bill Sees It," AA is nothing but a spiritual kindergarten. If we want to move up from kindergarten, we have to graduate to the real Word and the real Truth. Kindergarten was fun, but I don't want to spend my life there. You are so right that few in AA have attained those words of Paul. I also failed to follow Paul's advice from 1 Timothy 5:23 - "Stop drinking only water and use a little wine because of your stomach and frequent illnesses." I think I must have missed the mention of "a LITTLE wine" when I first read that advice. Oh well, live and learn. Thanks so much day day day.
Member: Real
Location: Sobriety
Date: 8/29/2003
Time: 7:15:32 PM
Why bother with St. Paul when Jesus Himself says, "The next time I drink of the fruit of the vine will be in heaven with the Father." The same applies for me--I am recovered regardless of what premise AA espouses. Not because of the steps or meetings or anything other than Jesus curing the terrible malady we have all begotten upon ourselves.
Member: Stumpy
Location: Texas
Date: 8/29/2003
Time: 10:56:21 PM
Well said, Real, well said. I've gone to a lot of A.A. meetings and they have been of some assistance to me, at least early on. But it was God, my Father, and Jesus, my Lord and Savior, who saved me from my self-inflicted illness (as well as the rest of my self-inflected sins). At meeting after meeting, when someone makes mention of anything pertaining to Christianity, I hear a chorus of "we're not supposed to talk about religion; this ain't church. Our only purpose is to stay sober and help others achieve sobriety." That may be what is stated in the AA preamble, but the big book of AA states that the "main object is to enable you to find [God] which will solve your problem." Perhaps it's just the groups I have attended in the last few years. There's little actual sobriety present (some still have a drink once in a while, some are hooked on pain pills, anti-depressants, and other prescription drugs, and most are addicted to nicotine). Of the ones who are actually clean and sober, not all have yet had a spiritual awakening and found the love of God and His Son Jesus Christ. It's really quite sad. Now, I see the light shining through the darkness with another former drinker speaking the Truth about the fact that Jesus healed him/her from his/her malady. Many thanks Real.
Member: Sarah G.
Location: Texas
Date: 8/29/2003
Time: 11:05:55 PM
Hello Sarah here recovering alcoholic ect. Thanks to all for your posts. I love the humor in some of them, and the wisdom in others. So I am taking what I need with me and leaving the rest. My problem is alcohol/ISM. Thanks to a higher power I found the doors of AA. How could I ever not be grateful for this gift to truely live? To feel a part of? Smoking or not, relaps or not...I am glad you are here, come on in and stay and welcome home.
Member: Ron the rocket
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 8/30/2003
Time: 3:07:42 AM
Ron Alcoholic. respect for and helping each other. When I read that I first thought of my wife.(also alcoholic) As I read some of the posts about smoking I thought we missed the point, then Im wondering respect for who.. the new commer? It must be a hard topic to talk about. some one mentioned christianity and religion, yeah if I wanted to hear about that I would go to church, I would also got there to hear about Jesus my Lord and savior. the big book says Its main object is to enable you to find a power greater than yourself, it goes on to say that means we have written a book which we believe to be spiritual as well as moral. It is not about religion, Its about a fellowship of men and women who share their experience strengh and hope so they can solve their common problem, and help others recover from alcoholism, Each group has guide lines. in my 30 years sober and in all my travels I have yet to attend an A.A. mgt. about Christianity, or my Lord and Savior Jesus. Im glad to say Ive been to Texas went to a few mgt. there and they talk about A.A. So here it is the end of the work week. respect for others... helping others I guess its some thing that goes without saying. we just do it and to say how we do it would be bragging. So Ill end by saying between my wife and I we have well over 50 years of sobriety, We go to lots of mgt. (3-4 wk) I woulden't know how to explain the respect we have for each other, except to call it LOVE
Member: Bikerbabe
Location: Pray for me?..... Please.....
Date: 8/30/2003
Time: 3:24:39 AM
Hey here's a genuine aa pop quiz question. How many people here know what "Billy Dubulya, his very one own self said was the most spiritual foundational concept for aa?.... Bikerbabe is very smart and wants you to know it... and right now she's falling off her chair, because she's loving the thought of what your probably thinking about her.. why do i get such a charge out of that?... is that wrong?... oh well . bye now.
Member: Is Brad Pitt sober?
Location:
Date: 8/30/2003
Time: 3:30:18 AM
BABE TO PITT)) is that Brad Pitt?... fishing in Montana?... on the big black foot?... well bust my buttons, you are the single most amazing looking man, the most talented actor, not to mention, the best looking guy... in the world. No.... in the whole universe...glad you liked the story honey. im cookin up another, stay tuned, whoo hoo!.... brack brack.
Member: ryans
Location: spokane,wa
Date: 8/30/2003
Time: 5:58:19 AM
hello, good topic, and some funny stuff. this is the first time ive seen this site. ive been off the drink to deal with everything for three years now. i dont want to wine to much or go on for to long so here it is, i drink, i take advantage of everyone i can, i sold everything i had to buy beer. 4 years ago i met my wife, 2 and ahalf years ago we had our first child, a little girl, and now all i do is live for them. anyway if you want to know more go to www.sobwineblahblahblah.com. just kidding, cool site i like it so far
Member: AnilG
Location: MtVernon,IL
Date: 8/30/2003
Time: 9:34:52 AM
respect for and helping each other was never my style while i was drinking but since i have been in receovery i have found that god's will is somthing keeps me thinking and doing the right thing in my life.I found peace in my self. thanks to aa and alnon.
Member: AnilG
Location: MtVernon,IL
Date: 8/30/2003
Time: 9:34:55 AM
respect for and helping each other was never my style while i was drinking but since i have been in receovery i have found that god's will is somthing keeps me thinking and doing the right thing in my life.I found peace in my self. thanks to aa and alnon.
Member: Kathy F.
Location: Texas
Date: 8/30/2003
Time: 12:25:20 PM
I'm Kathy, an alcoholic. Early on the program, my sponsor put me into action straightaway on respecting and helping others. Since I was frightfully unable to determine who among us was worthy of my respect, my sponsor insisted I give the benefit of the doubt to all until otherwise indicated. She insisted I help whenever the opportunity presented itself, starting with cleaning ashtrays, picking up coffee cups and folding chairs. These are the things I still do fifteen years later after a meeting or upon meeting someone new. It has resulted in my staying sober and becoming acquainted with persons I would have otherwise avoided if left to my own snap judgments.
Member: Les
Location: San Diego
Date: 8/30/2003
Time: 3:46:48 PM
Respect comes to those who do respectable things. Those in AA who need help are generally disreputable because of their drinking and gain my respect by making an attempt to improve that situation. When disreputable people come to AA and want to remain the same I generally wish them well and get on with looking for someone who wants what AA has to offer. I try to practice this principle in all my affairs; anyone needing my help and willing to do what is necessary to change their misfortunes has my complete support.
Member: For the
Location: bikerbaby--herself
Date: 8/30/2003
Time: 7:48:39 PM
babeygirl, only you would dare answer your own question around here. or maybe me. it appears as though he, billydublya hissssself, once said, "anonymity is the spritual foundation upon whicjh all are principles are funded." OOps--that's founded, but hey who cares as that principle is out the window here anyways. there probably trackin this isp right now, but so what, eh babebikerchickygirlfriend? Is that a cool name fer ya hooneypie?
Member: cb
Location: lorain ohio U.S.A
Date: 8/30/2003
Time: 10:03:25 PM
one day at a time keep it simple have great day and god bless you all.
Member: cb
Location: lorain ohio U.S.A
Date: 8/30/2003
Time: 10:03:26 PM
one day at a time keep it simple have great day and god bless you all.
Member: cb
Location: lorain ohio U.S.A
Date: 8/30/2003
Time: 10:06:26 PM
one day at a time keep it simple have great day and god bless you all.
Member: DB
Location: KC
Date: 8/30/2003
Time: 10:12:52 PM
My name is Dave I am Alcoholic. I enjoy evryones sharing. Bill W. says as Bill see's it Pg 212 Dr. Bob did not need me fo his spiritual instruction. but what he did need was deflation at depth and the understanding that only one drunk can give to another,what Bill needed was the humility of self forgetfulness and the kinship with anohter human being of my own kind. That is a good statement for me, because i have never found anywhere the understanding of one alcholoic talkin to anohter alcoholic, that we give and receive enough that we dont have to pick up anohter drink. It is amazing fellowship that we have, lets always protect our sobriety, using the experiences of the new and old