Member: Tom M.
Location: Homosassa, Fl
Date: 7/14/2002
Time: 8:41:11 AM

Comments

az_bill need a better e-mail address Tom M tess1@talkz.com .


Member: Curtis L
Location: Goliad, Texas
Date: 7/14/2002
Time: 9:46:23 AM

Comments

Love and tolerance of others is our code. God help me. Alkie named Curtis here having trouble drawing the line between tolerance and being a doormat. Sharing/feedback of your experience within AA would be appreciated. Love you all, like most of you. It would worry me if some people liked me. I don't want what they have. HELP.


Member: John H
Location: Indiana, USA
Date: 7/14/2002
Time: 10:41:57 AM

Comments

First here to address Curtis. This is from John, an alcoholic. Love and tolerance is a very important topic to talk about and to put into practice. This is my 16th year in AA and in about 6 weeks will have 16 years of continuous sobriety. Now I can't say that I love all, and those I do consistently enough. But I can say that love is expressed more consistently and with greater sincerity. The remarkable fact is that I've found more love and tolerance in AA than in any other area in my life, with the possible exception of family. Curtis, if you have an alcoholic problem that needs help, meetings, meetings, meetings in many AA groups will guide to a happier and more rewarding life. May you find all the guidance meanwhile you need in the following messages that follow during the week. God's blessings to you all!


Member: Harriet B.
Location: Guelph On Can
Date: 7/14/2002
Time: 11:19:39 AM

Comments

Love and tolerance are very interwined words. You can love someone but not tolerate them, for example. Or visa versa. But within the rooms of AA they fit like a lock and key. So that is what I love about AA. One thing I am slowly learning is that L & T do not solve one's alcohol problems but they do alleviate them. I don't like to get too comfortable inside AA because even with the L & T, those "principles" cannot get (me) beyond the sometimes insurmounbtable obstacles I have to get over to get the program. And I know I have to do it myself, as much as i have tried to lean on others..Thanks for reading this--I love this website..Have a good week all...


Member: Carolyn S.
Location: Vanc. Wa.
Date: 7/14/2002
Time: 3:01:06 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Carolyn an alcoholic...I am in early sobriety and have had some problems with tolerance. I know the problem lies with me and when I do the things suggested by those who have gone before me,it does make a difference. Even in AA we are all people and we generally didn't get here on good behavior, the benefit of working the steps is I am gaining the ability to learn about myself and in doing that my relationships with others improves. I am better able to judge what my boundries are and to manage my life more productively. Thanks to all who take the time to pass on what just might be what I need "just for today". Hi Brooke


Member: Jay L.
Location: Arizona
Date: 7/14/2002
Time: 3:45:47 PM

Comments

Love and tolerance is a good topic, Curtis. I am finding that by working the 12 Steps and doing what has been suggested to me by those who've got what I want, I am beginning to get an understanding of my fears. In addition to this understanding, I'm slowly learning how to walk through these fears with the help of an excellent sponsor as well as the other tools at my disposal. As my fears begin to subside, so does my anguish towards others. At the same time, there's an acceptance that begins to take place, not only of myself, but of others as well.


Member: saba
Location: K.L MALAYSIA
Date: 7/14/2002
Time: 3:56:58 PM

Comments

saba alcoholic, l&t for me is not a luxury but a nesescity to remain sober and grow in AA.


Member: Valerie M.
Location: Canada
Date: 7/14/2002
Time: 7:35:15 PM

Comments

Thank you for a great topic, Curtis L! When I was drinking, my life was all about intolerance, anger and indifference. Once I was sober, I had to find a balance where tolerance was concerned because I made a very good doormat most of the time! I'm gradually learning to set boundaries where I can be tolerant of others - accepting co-workers, friends, etc. for who they are, but being able to draw a line when I feel over extended or taken advantage of. Where love is concerned, I wasn't able to really love anyone for a long time. Now I can honestly say I have people in my life that I love unconditionally. That's a big improvement for me! I think it's because I no longer hate myself that I can reach out and care for others. AA has helped me a lot with that.


Member: Chris G.
Location: Canada
Date: 7/14/2002
Time: 7:43:45 PM

Comments

Chris here an alcoholic. Curtis L., I certainly understand your comments. Yep, I come from a past where if someone looked at me crosswise, they'd better watch out, but now, love and tollerance is my guide. But does that mean that I have to allow people to walk all over me. Hell, no way. That's where the boundaries deal comes into play. I ask my HP for guidance, pray for them, take a breath, and let them know where I stand. I take care of my side of the street, and let God deal with the rest. Most people are pretty good, but every once in a while, ya run into a real bad actor. Sick people need our prayers. I deal with what I must, and move on. Life's too short to spend much time messing with messy people. "If you roll with a pig you both get dirty, and the pig likes it." I think that's why people suggest we seek out people with what we want and with quality sobriety. It is easy to find sick people in and out of these rooms, I pray to focus on a spiritual path, and attract healthy meaningful relationships. But life is life, and sometimes we have to deal with the ones that arn't so healthy. Cheers from Canada!


Member: Terry A.
Location: Jackson Tn.
Date: 7/14/2002
Time: 8:42:39 PM

Comments

Hi, I am Terry, alcoholic I am back in a.a. after being out flying mis. i have to say it was worce this time I am glad to be back . I need to hear about L. T. thank you . I know not to take A.A. for grated and to be serious about the progam . i am likey to be able to come back I could have died. I knowthis . I am working the steps and going to meetngs . I am luky to have a good sponer . Thank you for the topic.


Member: allie m
Location: ed ab ca
Date: 7/14/2002
Time: 9:12:07 PM

Comments

Principles before personalities,,,, unconditional love which does not judge. Doing things that are contrary to my nature. Growth through painful experiences...Bill W. Just do not pick up that first drink.


Member: Shirley R
Location: Ohio
Date: 7/14/2002
Time: 10:04:14 PM

Comments

Shirley R alcoholic/addict, love and tolerance...I was in a relationship with someone who had 19 1/2 months sobriety when he relapsed. That was 8 months ago. I still love him, but I can no longer tolerate his behavior. The hardest part is saying "no" and meaning it. Otherwise I leaving myself opened to be used--"doormat". I have 11 years sober and attended 3 meetings today. I am dealing with the pain through my support system and AA.


Member: Bonny G
Location: Hot Springs, AR
Date: 7/14/2002
Time: 10:42:06 PM

Comments

Bonny, grateful recoverying alcoholic, hello friends. I am glad to see this topic tonight, I have had to use this Love & Tolerance this weekend. This program has taught me "how" to be a responsible and caring person. When I am tired there is no question that I am hard to tolerate, and I find myself coming up short with others, hello Step 10. I have to work at it to be loving towards others. Around here there is a saying about HALT--don't let yourself get to Hungry, Angry, Lonely or Tired. So I know I owe an apology to a co-worker who called me tonight. A weekend of helping a widowed Mother who let the yard get out of whack once again before asking that I come help, a 2 hour drive one way and my off days spent with over grown hedge, yard and needed home maintence. But I loved the time spent with my Mother, we've even planned a vacation trip for September to her home state of Tennessee. I thank God and this program for making me a better daughter today. Love & Tolerance for the elderly parent who doesn't like to let you know they need help too. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: PJ
Location: Florida
Date: 7/14/2002
Time: 11:30:28 PM

Comments

PJ, grateful recovering alcoholic. One of my favorite sayings is: "It's important that people know what you stand for. It is equally important that they know what you won't stand for." I think this relates to the tolerance versus doormat discussion. To me, tolerance is about not judging other people; accepting a person for who they are. This doesn't mean that I have to allow others unacceptable behavior into my life. I can set boundaries as to what is or isn't acceptable in my life. I can love someone without allowing their unhealthy behavior to disrupt my serenity. I can detach with love. It isn't easy, but the alternative will lead me into a state of "restless, irritable and discontent." I've been there, and don't want to go back. It wasn't a pleasant trip! As it says in the Serenity Prayer, "accept the things I cannot change (others), change the things I can (my behavior, thoughts). Thanks for letting me share and thanks for sharing another sober 24 hours with me.


Member: Sarah
Location: NW USA
Date: 7/15/2002
Time: 12:23:47 AM

Comments

Welcome back Terry. Love and tolerance... thinking it meant being a doormat kept me going in and out. I heared in the meetings the saying "There is a God and it isn't me" but I also need the saying "There is a God and it isn't you" A.A. shares of all the Experience, Strength and Hope, it has given me an understanding of a "Healing Power" of progress rather then perfection, that each of us has our own spiritual timing and flow. Thank you Curtis for the topic your sharing has meant a lot to me. Thanks one and all for your sharing. It helps me to stay sober today.


Member: Teresa B.
Location: Elkhart, IN
Date: 7/15/2002
Time: 1:17:33 AM

Comments

Hello everyone, Teresa grateful alcoholic here. Hooo Curtis, love and tolerance, such a good topic. Man, I hear the anguish in your post when you wish that there were more that liked you. In my own life, I've had similar hassles. It's like the 98% of the world were given the pixie dust that bestowed pleasant personalities *and* charming mannerisms that won everyone around them. The only thing that's worked for me in this area was to ask God for a nicely balanced personality that still would be me, would be one that would not turn people off, but would not be a doormat as well. Now comes the tricky part, I have to trust God in how *He* choses to work out the specific results of this prayer. Yes, I want a nicer personality that is neither a bulldozer nor a patsy, but I gotta depend and trust Him on the specifics of what that looks like. And trusting God does NOT come easily to this longterm, hardcore control freak. But, by golly, the longer I keep after this attitude, the better things seem to work out. Glad to be here and so very glad all of you are here.


Member: Phil A
Location: Geordieland UK
Date: 7/15/2002
Time: 5:11:17 AM

Comments

Thanks for the topic Curtis, Love and Tolerance hmm I got no problem loving everyone in AA however that does not mean I like everyone in AA after all Alcoholics are a bunch of folks who would generally not mix, our common bond being alcohism and recovery from it. It took me a long time to get tolerance and I'm still getting more each day, sometimes in situations I gotta talk about it and talk about it and hand it over time and time again until the problems gone, it always goes, but never in my time, lol, God will do for us what we cannot do for ourselves practice, practice, practice is what this program takes and more will be revealed before we are half way through. I've had my share of ups and downs in sobriety and put up with harressment/bullying etc, it goes on but ya gotta remember the world is full of sicknesses, alcol related or not and some are sicker than others.


Member: The crazy world of Avril G
Location: Belgium via Barnsley UK
Date: 7/15/2002
Time: 6:42:02 AM

Comments

Great topic {{{CURTIS}}} Thanx and thanx all who shared on it. You would think that someone (ME) who really tested the love, tolerance and patience of the people in the rooms for SEVEN YEARS, would have more tolerance, love and patience for others wouldn't you??? LOL For 7 years I went in and out (mostly out) of AA rooms, still drunk, and a foul-mouthed mean and nasty drunk at that. I cursed and swore at them all, told them they didn't have one f***ing clue how BAD it was for ME!!! Those sanctimonious assholes just smiled and said, "Keep coming back, Avril, one day you will get sober in spite of you" They tolerated and loved me, were patient with me, and really wanted me to keep coming back. Thank God they were sober enough to be able to see through the sickness, and see the girl underneath it all, the girl THEY all believed I COULD be one day, if I didn't kill meself first!!! Now when I see someone in the rooms (or anywhere at all) who really pisses me off, when I get intolerant, impatient and judgemental, I tell meself it is Gods way of making me practise tolerance, love and impatience. It helps me to remember that I am seeing meself, 12-19 years ago, and if I had not been shown such love and tolerance, I would not be here today. Another thing I was taught was not to be so hard on meself when I screw up, Hell, I lived my whole life with hatred, resentment and intolerance for 29 years, so 12 years of sobriety is not gonna render me whiter than white. This is a lifetimes job, I have to constantly work on my character defects, which still rear their ugly head. I remember someone once asked in a meeting, "So what do you do when you have completed the steps?" The reply??? "LIE VERY STILL, YOU ARE DEAD" Step 10 is my saving grace, as it gives me the opportunity to make amends for my old behaviour, and hopefully change it before it gets too out of hand. AA is the university of life, but in THIS university I will NEVER graduate. Just keep on doing the next right thing, and we will all get sober in spite of ourselves. And remember rule #62 Lets not take ourselves too damn seriously. ~~*SOBRIETY ROCKS*~~ goodallavril2000@yahoo.co.uk


Member: Rich R, s-l-o-w-l-y recovering compulsive person/alcoholic
Location: Detroit richr_srcp@hotmail.com
Date: 7/15/2002
Time: 9:04:49 AM

Comments

Curtis, I'm so glad I introduced you to this website because you came up with a dandy topic. I really appreciate the sharing so far. As usual, I learn a lot when I come here. When I first started coming to AA in 1990, I really needed a ton of love and tolerance from others. I'm positive that I didn't respond perfectly when it was given to me. I had (and still have) a lot of 'rough edges' to my personality. Like they say 'we will love you until you learn to love yourself'. So, on the one hand we need to cut the newcomer (and some oldtimers, too) some slack (tolerance). On the other hand, true love is wanting the best for the other person. And when that other person is an alcoholic, sometimes true love means tough love. When I allow myself to be used/abused by other members, then it is really a form of enabling. Enabling is not good for me and not good for the other person either. So, like others have said, I need to learn to set personal boundaries and stick to them. And, lastly (I love AA humor) I heard at a meeting that 'if you like EVERYONE in AA then you need to go to more meetings!'. Thanks again Curtis, hope to see you soon at CGhub.


Member: Craig L (Dogmanor@yahoo.com)
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Date: 7/15/2002
Time: 10:45:00 AM

Comments

Thanks, for the great and timely topic. Meetings allow me to practice love and tolerance. I recently started sponsoring a fundamentalist christian, who has been having a very hard time staying sober. I don’t know why he chose me as he has already let me know that I am going to hell because choose not to say I am not reborn in christ. Maybe he wants to save me. Last week, prior to getting into the first step, he expounded on his belief in creationism. Every fiber of my being wanted to slam the door of judgment on him, but I don’t want to drink again. Amazingly a quick prayer allowed me to open my heart and see that no one deserves alcoholic death “not even fundamentalists” LOL. His religious beliefs are between him and God. All God asks of me is to practice love and tolerance and to continue to help him through the steps. If his belief system helps him stay sober that is all that really matters.


Member: Dan M.
Location: SW Wisconsin
Date: 7/15/2002
Time: 2:58:49 PM

Comments

Hi, I am Dan, an alcoholic and addict. I am going through a particularily nasty divorce with someone I had met in the program 15 years ago. She had chosen to leave and no longer considers herself an alcoholic. She is in the process of trying to force me out of my home because she wants the equity money quickly, knowing how much I love that house and home. I realized that the house isn't something I need to survive but it is also the home of my children when they are with me. I am having a very tough time tolerating her behavior because she has a total disregard for anyone else but herself. This is not the person I married and I accept that. It is hard for me to take a "live and letlive" additude with her. I am working on another 4rth step to accept my responsibility in this matter. I pray for her well being but I have at times such hateful feeling for this person who I lovingly supported for the past 15 years who now doesn't care if I end up on the street now. I also understand that part of her behavior is because she is in denial about her alcoholism, which I have no control over. Thanks


Member: Kim D.
Location: Bridgewater
Date: 7/15/2002
Time: 2:59:39 PM

Comments

Hi Curtis. Good topic, thanks. I understand "Love and Tolerance is our Code" as being, "Live and Let Live." I try to love the alkie - in recovery - as a sick person who is trying to get better. As we all try to get better One Day At A Time, I must have tolerance of where people are "at" or their "beliefs" at the time. However, that does not mean that I have to TOLERATE certain behaviors that are hurtful or damaging to my sobriety or peace of mind. I have the CHOICE to leave situations or relationships that are hurtful... Also, a good friend of mine pointed out to me that "love and tolerance" or our fellow alkies applies most apply to those IN RECOVERY - not so much to those who are ACTIVE and don't want to get sober. That was food for thought... Kind of like saying, " I love you XXXXX, but I can't accept your behavior. I will be here when you want to get sober." Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Anne M
Location: NY
Date: 7/15/2002
Time: 4:25:24 PM

Comments

I am very willing to love; but I am having a hard time with tolerance lately with the immediate family in my home. I am finding it increasingly difficult to tolerate my active alkie husband, my pre-teen wise-mouth daughter, and my pain-in-the-butt father. I realize this is all self-defeating, but am really getting emotionally bogged down by the small stuff. I am working on my first Step 3, so I am hoping and praying that in time (soon, I hope!) I will be more tolerant and not sweat the small stuff. I agree with what was said above: I can love but not tolerate; and I can also tolerate but not love. I wish there was someone in my life that I could love AND tolerate!! (Sorry, I'm feeling a tad childish today)


Member: Anne M
Location: NY
Date: 7/15/2002
Time: 4:26:37 PM

Comments

I am very willing to love; but I am having a hard time with tolerance lately with the immediate family in my home. I am finding it increasingly difficult to tolerate my active alkie husband, my pre-teen wise-mouth daughter, and my pain-in-the-butt father. I realize this is all self-defeating, but am really getting emotionally bogged down by the small stuff. I am working on my first Step 3, so I am hoping and praying that in time (soon, I hope!) I will be more tolerant and not sweat the small stuff. I agree with what was said above: I can love but not tolerate; and I can also tolerate but not love. I wish there was someone in my life that I could love AND tolerate!! (Sorry, I'm feeling a tad childish today)


Member: AnilG
Location: Mt Vernon,IL
Date: 7/15/2002
Time: 5:27:01 PM

Comments

I am an alcoholic love and tolrance is the topic that I like . IT is the will of God if we can be just tolerant of one another and just love there wil be so much peace inthis world no fights arguments life will become better. thanks to aa and al anon who tought meto tolerant at every step of the way .


Member: TanyaW
Location: ohio
Date: 7/15/2002
Time: 6:54:00 PM

Comments

Wow,what a great place this is... I am Tonja a recovering aa... I have never used this site brfore. Thank you all for being here. I needed a meeting and with my family schedule and being exhausted from all our travels lately ,I thought I would try this .I was told about online meetings and I found this If anyone knows about how to find a "live chat meeting " please email me. Anyway, I have been sober many years, and have had a tremendous amount of blessings ,WAY more than I could have ever hoped for, by staying in the program. The Love and tolerance messege though, is always tough at times. Sometimes we have rightous anger, or we know someone is wrong about something and it is hard to be non judgmental and tolerantly loving. But we ask our higher power for help,hopefully before we say the wrong thing. I am sometimes happy with my progress and sometimes I catch myself too late. I do speak my mind though. I learned how to do that here. Sometimes I am more spiritually centered than others and if I am "on the beam" It comes out better for all concerened. I liked what someone here said about " if you love everyone in AA you haven't been to enough meetings". Gotta have a sense of humor... Love you all! T


Member: Pat B
Location: Ohio
Date: 7/15/2002
Time: 9:24:34 PM

Comments

Appreciate the topic: tolerance vs. doormat syndrome. In early sobriety I was determined to do the right thing carrying the message. Well, I ended up carrying the mess, no one stayed sober, I wasn't getting attention for saving lives, nobody was grateful for ALL I'd done, pitypitypity poor pat. Finally realized in sponsoring the sponsee was wagging the sponsor--me. I shopped for my sponsees, took back what they didn't like, banged on their locked doors repeatedly when it was meeting time. I wanted to scream that you said you'd go to a meeting and let me save you(preferably in front of a large audience). I tolerated and enabled the sickness. That saga ended when I was reading The Gulag Archipelago (there's good stuff other than the BB) by Solzhenitsyn(sp?). In it he said, "We become part of what we tolerate." For me, that small sentence contained an answer to the difference between tolerance and being a doormat. I am what I tolerate. The student was ready and the teacher appeared. Love and unity, Pat


Member: Jacquelyne Howell
Location: Snellville Ga
Date: 7/15/2002
Time: 10:57:12 PM

Comments

Curtis , I am a grateful alcoholic L&T did not happen over nite for me. When I am working my program I handle L&T very well. I take it one day at a time.


Member: Gage
Location: LA
Date: 7/16/2002
Time: 2:25:50 AM

Comments

Well, geez, Curtis, I like ya. I'm Gage and I'm an alcoholic. I have to say that I don't always see a lot of love and tolerance among alcoholics in AA. A lot of what I've witnessed is the clashing of some unusually large egos, and sometimes I throw my ego against other peoples' as well. But what I've also witnessed in AA, is that anytime I've wanted to lay down that heavy ego, admit my faults, make amends, and start fresh, the folks have always let me do it. I believe that AA may be the only place where a person like me can change. There may be other ways, but I never found one. So, when you look at me or think of me, try to think not so much of what you know I am, and think more of what you know I could become, and pray for me. I'll try to remember to do the same for you.


Member: The crazy world of Avril G
Location: TO TANYA
Date: 7/16/2002
Time: 4:07:59 AM

Comments

Sorry to double dip here, but {{{TANYA}}} you asked for e-mails but didn't post yer address. SO, here is a link where live voice meetings are held, it is Paltalk, and the AA rooms are found under the category Health Related/Parenting. If you have any probs downloading/using it e-mail me. http://www.paltalk.com goodallavril2000@yahoo.co.uk avie_2 on paltalk


Member: DB
Location:
Date: 7/16/2002
Time: 7:06:42 AM

Comments

I had to look at my tolerance of others, exspecially the repeating slippers. I had fear of them and i was one myself for 13yrs and now i have not found it neccessary to take a drink or drug or any mindaltering chemical for 8+ yrs. I also see others carrying the message. even if they have been slips, one thing i have learned is we will pick up any one that slips and falls on the ground and we do the same thing with are society of AA we pick them up and love and tolerance until they get down to reality, God>


Member: Monica C
Location: Philly Pa
Date: 7/16/2002
Time: 10:01:32 AM

Comments

Monica, Recovering very slowly from Philly, Great topic..it does make me cringe a little, so it must be good. "Love and Tolerance of others is our code"....that is pretty deep and it takes God to make that possible for me. NOWAY, could i do that one alone, I am way to self-centered for that, I am an alchololic! I really need to pray for people and for God's will. We do this work to be at maximum service to others and God....that is what the bb tells me and I don't know how I could be at service helping someone if i am resenting them or there actions, I must want to love and tolerate them to begin helping. However, "First things First" and "It is a selfish program" are also two sub themes, that help me to respect myself, my boundries and my own soberiety. For me to help someone they should want help. ....you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him NOT drink.....


Member: Pete B.
Location: Indy
Date: 7/16/2002
Time: 12:42:36 PM

Comments

Pete here....alcholoic. Love and tolerance is a tough one .... needs a lot of talking with the HP .... then decisions. Yes there is a fine line, a balance or more than not for me, I fall back on the AA prayer ".... the wisdom to know the difference". The trouble with me is I don't LISTEN (and that's another tough one)as I should. The more I learn AA ... the more I DO what AA tells me, the more I understand what love and tolerance means. It doesn't happen over night. God bless !!!


Member: Max C.
Location: Houston Tx.
Date: 7/16/2002
Time: 1:00:18 PM

Comments

hello curtis love and tolerance.I have a feeling that i think is love not like i love my mother or wife.a feeling deep down that tells me these people are wanting help.it bypasses what i think about them it tells me i may have something to offer them that may plant the seed. It lets me know I have found the way to the 12 promises and I can show them and for that i am responsible.I don't have to tolerate anyone or anything.If I am tolerating I have missed the boat.If people are making me feel like a doormat I can change the sitution or accept it.Pretty simple.the knolwedge to know what to do makes it hard.Thats where all those slogans come into play.I accept that there are a lot of people useres in aa and that not all are wanting what I have (spiritually mentally) they want what I have financaly.these people i change thier mind about getting it from me and they seem to disapear.the ones that are honestly seeking help for thier drinking problem remain.accept or change pray for the wisdom to know the differance,serinity to accept and courage to change.Thats what I believe today. I sure don't like everyone in aa but the desperation of a drowing man dosn't care who else is on the raft:) good luck to ya and keep comming back max c


Member: Chris P.
Location: Stairway grp Decatur Al
Date: 7/16/2002
Time: 1:08:51 PM

Comments

Hi everybody, I'm Chris and I'm an alcoholic. I'm really greatful to find ya'll simply because I haven't shown much l@t lately(or acceptance either). I've been sober since 4/98 and I'm getting way too smart... I know that if I work steps and help others that it'll pass but I'm really getting crazy, so crazy I just cant see the steps and I cannot read or call my sponsor, hell, I'm even crazier now than ever... I guess my lack of faith is either gonna end or I'll get drunk... I love ya'll and I'm gonna go pray because somethings really wrong w/me now... Thanks... chrisp312001@yahoo.com


Member: NATALIE R
Location: SPRING, TX
Date: 7/16/2002
Time: 1:55:03 PM

Comments

WHEN i LEARN TO LOVE AND TOLERATE MYSELF THEN i WILL LOVE AND TOLERATE OTHERS. i BELIEVE THE SECRET IS IN BEING GRATEFUL i'M EVEN ALIVE TO WRITE THIS. WHEN i FORGET WHERE i CAME FROM i BECOME UNGRATEFUL. SO MY SUGGESTION ALWAYS IS TO THINK IT THROUGH, CHOOSE A PATH AND FOLLOW. IF YOU GET PAIN YOU GET GROWTH. THAT'S HOW MY HP WORKS IN MY LIFE.


Member: Tessa
Location: Channing Texas
Date: 7/16/2002
Time: 4:44:05 PM

Comments

Curtis, good topic, I struggled with this, too (to be rigourously honest, I still do) I have found a question that I ask myself that helps. I will ask myself several times a day, "would a 'normal' person put up with this?" or "What am I sacrificing to give this person what they want and Is that acceptable to me?????"


Member: Brian F
Location: Berwickshire,Scotland
Date: 7/16/2002
Time: 6:49:44 PM

Comments

My name is Brian an I'm an alcoholic.Thanks for the topic Curtis.I did not love or tolerate anyone for many many years, today I beliee it was because I could neither love nor tolerate myself. I came to AA and was shown love and tolerance by the groups I attended, my sponsor and his family' I spend many nights in their house in my very ealy days, I was so scared of being on my own. Gradually I began to like myself a bit, enoughto say "I will not drink today" and trust myself enough to go outside into the world again. At this time I hated my job, the people I worked for and the people I lived with. I was sharing a student flat, not because I was a student, but because it was cheap. I didn't love myself enough to think maybe I should take better care of myself and have some comfort. Then I mved house and job to be closer to the AA groups I first went to, I now believe this was an act of love for myself. I tried to repair the "Loving" elationships (ie sexual) first. It didn't work. I worked more at the 12 Steps and as I did my relationship with God, myself and then other people improved. I started "walking the walk" with my family, friends(all of who were in AA, I didn't trust myself to go too far fron AA company) my work colleagues but still I looked for the relationship of "love" Today I don't have it, what I do have is a healthier relationship with God and myself so much so that I can sit in my own company in God's presence my work relationship is one of love now. I have reduced the hours I work, only work in places that are healthy for me I'm back at university part-time to qualify as a lecturer in my chosen profession, I can say "no" to offers of too much work. I have as much tolerence for people who are in there particular space, as I have willingness to remember an identify how it felt when I was in a similar space. That is when I "practice these principles in all our affairs"


Member: AZbill
Location: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Date: 7/16/2002
Time: 9:28:09 PM

Comments

Hi Bill here, alcoholic from Arizona. If anyone has been in AA a length of time and does not dislike some individuals; then chances are they are not making enough meetings. :) There was a gentleman where I got sober that quite a few folks did not like. He himself shared this amusing story. A sponsee was telling his sponsor that he did not think he had any resentments. Sponsor, "What about A.S.?". Sponsee, "That SOB?". Sponsor, "Start with him". As an individual I did not think much of the guy myself. But when he was a part of a group, I would listen to him. I learned much from him. I have sat on many panels at Area Assemlies. I have seen people who were at odds as individuals but yet as a part of the group got things done. We are alcoholics, but first we are human beings. And as such, we are going to have different personalities. Many likes and dislikes. The "Love and Tolerance" part of the program allows people from various walks of life come together for a common cause at the level of a Group, a District meeting, an Area Assembly, all the way to the Delegates meeting in New York. Some oldtimers may remember the San Diego International incident with its' discounted prices. It was the minority opinion that reversed the 90% for 10% against to passage of the motion to keep the discounts. I will never forget the tears in our State Delegates eyes as he made his report at Area. He said it was the most beautiful thing he had ever experienced in AA. Thank you for being a part of my sobriety today. Bill az-bill@mindspring.com


Member: Jack B
Location: Palo Alto, Pa
Date: 7/17/2002
Time: 2:09:47 AM

Comments

Hi, I am Jack, a real alcoholic. Love and tolerance is a great topic. I have found that I am not spiritually strong enough to love everyone I come in contact with, in or out of the rooms. I find that I am capable of giving unconditional love to anyone who walks thru the doors of A A looking for help.As long as I can place the principles before the personalities, I am okay, but being human, I tend to judge the book by its cover. I once made a statement that I loved everyone in A A. An oldtimer looked at me and said son doesn't sound like you go to too many meetings. I have come to look at tolerance of others this way. If they can tolerate me for 1 hour, then I should be able to tolerate them also. Thanks for a great topic, and God Bless all.


Member: Tami H
Location: Washinton State
Date: 7/17/2002
Time: 2:56:13 AM

Comments

Hi. Love and tolerance, hummm. I just this evening had an incident occur in treatment where two of the people in the group had become (I wasn’t the only person who noticed) very aloof and generally irritated by most everything that was discussed in our group. Since my beginning treatment at every session it has become worse. The two sit with heads down, sometimes as if napping, draw/doodle and don’t participate when asked. They will say, “can you come back to me?”, or say that the assignment questions don’t apply to them so they don’t have to answer the questions. The two just want to get it over with because they have to be there because of legals. After the meeting a couple of us had a chat with our group leader and it was agreed that the two who were doing the heavy sighs and eye rolling were mostly not ready to except treatment, immature and ignorant (I mean no disrespect) in their statements, and mannerisms and basically doomed (as we all are) to learn “the hard way”. I looked at them and saw myself, about 15 years ago. Granted, I may have been much younger than they are now, at that point of rebellious self destruction I had no intention of being affected by what I was doing to myself DAMN IT! Yet here I am 15 years later, and this time I see the signs, yet can’t tell them. I hear there desperate cries for help, I can’t save them. I am having a hard enough time trying to save myself. Love and tolerance OK, but my love for them won’t save them and my tolerance of their personalities is not comfortable. To apply this subject to this issue I, in my own way find what you call love in seeing that these two are human and are going to make their mistakes. And tolerance the same way, I see myself, 15 years ago...


Member: Zoe
Location: In Orbit
Date: 7/17/2002
Time: 11:08:13 AM

Comments

Zoe here, alcoholic. I think I tolerate other alcoholics pretty well, though I don't like everything they do. I know I love them though. I say that because I would do anything for another alcoholic to help whether I like them or not. The key for me is being honest with yourself. If you're angry about doing something than maybe you're being a doormat. Its your OWN tolerance we're talking about and everyone had different points and different times in their sobriety. Maybe you have no tolerance, thats okay. You can learn to have some, but don't push yourself to the point where you feel 'postal'. What is your gut telling you?


Member: CW
Location: DE
Date: 7/17/2002
Time: 12:59:51 PM

Comments

As I see it, the difference between being tolerant and being a doormat is the difference between being passive and being active in an action. I may tolerate the fact that you are still drinking, but I will not pour you one. I may tolerate your being a high school drop out, but I wouldn't sign your form. There are many things I tolerate, some simply because I have no choice-such as the slacker on the job. I however do not have to partake in those activities. If I do not participate in something I am against nor agree to your doing so, then I do not feel that I am a doormat. Tolerance comes in with listening to others. We are each intitled to our own opinions after all. Being a doormat is changing what you believe is right to accomodate another. If I feel something is wrong, I cannot compromise my principals (amazing that I have those now!)That is how I draw the line. Hope we all have a sober day.


Member: John B
Location: Bronx,NY
Date: 7/17/2002
Time: 2:50:55 PM

Comments

Hello, my name is John I am an alcoholic and addict. Love and tolerence what a wonderful topic if everyone did everything I wanted them to I would love them all. This is a challenging process to manage all the time. Thank God we only have to do this one moment at a time and one person at a time. When I get caught up with tolerence of people I limit my time with them. I have come to realize I can't control people places or things. All I can do is control me and I know I need many people and God to help me with this issue. I don't love everyone nor do I tolerate all things. What I have been able to do is let it go and not get caught up in the mental gymnastics of this business. When I am in the thick of it I expend to much energy and generally don't achieve the outcome I had hoped for. I now try and chose my battles or values that I believe need to be heard or acted upon. My ultimate authority is my loving relationship with God. He provides me with comfort when I start to see my flag of control being raised. I have been humiliated by this disease and humbled through the program.


Member: Teresa H
Location: MN
Date: 7/17/2002
Time: 7:43:50 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Teresa and I'm new to this site and post. I'm an alcoholic going on 4 years sobriety. Two hours ago my alcoholic, relapsed fiance' walked out the door. He's been relapsed for about 6 or 7 weeks and I told him he had to make a decision- the booze or living in my home. In his self-pity and fear, he chose to hear that as me saying I wanted to end the entire relationship. I repeatedly told him that what I needed was for him to face the relapse and deal with it. Well, it appears that the alcoholic part of him was stronger than that beautiful wonderful man that I know he is when he's healthy. It is so very hard to know when to put out that line in the sand regarding tolerance. I can love wholly and completely, yet choose not to tolerate alcoholic behavior. My counselor reminds me that this is the deepest love I can give him. It was time to raise the bottom for him, in hopes that it brings him to his knees, and back to AA. Please pray for him his name is Wade. I feel your pain and my heart is with you. Thanks for being available when an in person meeting was not. I'll pass--


Member: David W
Location: Summit, NJ
Date: 7/17/2002
Time: 11:44:20 PM

Comments

David, alcoholic. Teresa H, jeez, talk about a sharing a powereful personal experience relating to love and tolerance - thanks for posting. I hope your "tough love" will do the trick and raise the bottom for Wade, I think you made the right choice. I hope I have the courage and strength to draw the line in the sand sooner rather than latter if I ever face situation like that with a loved one. You made me think of the Serenity Prayer. Your in a tough situation, I'm sure, but it seems like you are making healthy choices and doing the things that you need to do - we can't control other people. I don't do a lot of praying, but I will pray for Wade and you. Not sure if you go to al-anon, but I bet it would be a good place to get support for dealing with exactly this type of thing. This disease is so tricky, I'm grateful that I don't drink today. I don't have much to add on L&T, just hoping to learn to be much more tolerant and loving towards my family and on the other hand become more forcefull in standing up for my interests with others away from my family. I seem to get it backwards to often - I have a tendency, that seems uncontrollable at times, to act like an a**hole towards the people I love the most - what happens to my tolerance in these situations, why aren't I focussed on how I can improve instead of jumping all over my family for minor things that don't really matter that much??!!


Member: MattN
Location: Corvallis, OR
Date: 7/18/2002
Time: 12:54:36 AM

Comments

What a great topic! I am struggling quite a bit with this right now. I have been a sober member of AA since November 12th of 1990. Since then, I had a lot of hard lessons about love and tolerance. I got married at 5 years of sobriety to a "normie" and my first child was born almost 2 years ago. These are all wonderful gifts of sobriety--except my meetings tapered off as my life became more full. Gradually, I found myself becoming enmeshed in an unhealthy way with my wife--she became my higher power. As a result, I found myself making sacrifices that she didn't ask for and resenting her for alot of things. We recently had a blowout that has us talking of separation and me scrambling back to AA. Thank God for this site. In the short time that I've been "steeping" myself in meetings, things have become much better (that's how I can see my part in my marital problems). I pray that through the help of AA (and some marital and individual counseling) we can pull through this. One day at a time. Thanks.


Member: your friend
Location:
Date: 7/18/2002
Time: 6:20:23 AM

Comments

Has anyone ever heard of Praying a Novena..there are different to many different Saints,the holy spirit, and of course Mary. they are generally thought to be a "catholic thing" but you do not have to be a catholic to use these powerful prayers to ask for help or miracle's in your life! Prayer to the holy Spirit: Holy Spirit, you who make me see everything and showed the way to reach my ideals, you who gave me the divine gift to forgive and forget that wrong that is done to me, and you who are in all instances of my life with me. I want to thank you for everything and confirm once more that I never want to be separeted from you, no matter how great the material desire mnaybe. I want to be with you and my loved ones in your perpetual glory. Amen Thank God for your sobriety no matter how long you have been sober and ask for his help in keeping you sober and to take the disire to drink totally away from you forever! say this prayer each day for 3 days and then publish it in a newspaper or somewhere where it will reach alot of people and your wish will be granted!


Member: snorkle Mc.
Location: hoosierland
Date: 7/18/2002
Time: 2:25:05 PM

Comments

L&Tdoes not include injustice. accept the things you cannot change, change the things you should.your sobriety is yours... dont hand it over to some one else or force it on them. I was wrongfully accused of a major feloney of an explosive nature, and both of us kept our jobs... I did transfer at the first oppertunity tho!


Member: Leah F
Location: Washington
Date: 7/18/2002
Time: 6:57:54 PM

Comments

love and tolerence, i like what harriet said, how the meanings intertwine, and you can love someone but NOT tolerate them,or vice versa. HOW TRUE!!! I have loved someone for the last 4 years and had a child with this person.I also got drunk and high with this person on a daily basis, and now that I have been sober, I see clearly now (so to say).Now when i look at him or hear him speak i can't stand him but yet i love him.i tell myself i still want to be with this person and then i remember how much pain he has caused me and i feel so torn between the love i have for him and being able to tolerate him at the same time.it's a tough and demanding balance.


Member: Chris H.
Location: Fla.
Date: 7/18/2002
Time: 8:06:50 PM

Comments

I'm CHris..I'm an alcoholic/ addict/bulimic... THe differance between love and tolerance has been a very blurry line all of my life, because puttting up with unacceptable behaivor was the same as ilove in my family of origin...It has been very hard for me to even KNOW what is unacceptable behavior, much less not put up with it...ANd now I am beginning to understand what is wrong , but what has happened is that I have gotten VERY resentful of that person and want to make sure that he knows how he has wronged me ... this has filled my life with resentment... a very dangerous place for an alcoholic to be...SO I have had to step back and look at MY part in the senario...begin to make ammends for the hurt I have caused ...keep my side of the street clean and not worry about the rest...I guess that MY Higher Power ( whom I call GOd) will bring about the time when I can tell this person how their behavior has hurt me without resentment and anger, but for now I need to work on my own heart and attitudes...boy , it is true athat so much of whta we go through comes back to our attitudes and our inner work. I have been reading the BIg Book and it has really focused on these things. It has really helped... Thanks for being here... I am greatful for this program that keeps me out of those damaging attitudes that only kill me and don't help anyone else.


Member: Ray C
Location: Haines Alaska
Date: 7/18/2002
Time: 11:20:42 PM

Comments

Hi I'm Ray an alcoholic...L&t is a good topic for me since between my soon to be ex and a local new and whiney member I could use a little of both.The new guy's living in his truck since his wife threw him out.I got a three bedroom trailer with nobody but me living in the thing but this guy who by the way has either 6 or 16 years without a drink seems like he'd rather whine than fix things himself.Pardon me for taking his inventory but I don't know how else to put this.He lives on partial disability ,he can work but won't because his wife will just take it.Theres work here now but he won't take it.He'd rather hang out at the local legion bar,play pool and bitch about his hard times.I've suggested both a job and the library or anyplace other than the local bars but to no avail.enuff said.I thought about putting him up for awhile but I already feel used enough by my ex and don't want anymore resentments on top of that.Simply put you can't give away what you ain't got and right now I need some time and space of my own.I do care about both of these people but don't want to be used as a doormat either.Well .I'm done venting,just wanted to let some of you others know your not alone in how you feel.Fortunatly I've been around long enough to know it all passes and for now thats good enough for me.So with that I'll reread a few of your posts and say thanks for helping me through another 24 hours...peace y'all


Member: Cec H
Location: Cowtown
Date: 7/19/2002
Time: 5:23:45 AM

Comments

Tolerance, ability to endure stress, pain ect..Tolerant disinclined to interfere with others' ways or opinions broad-minded. Love, warm affection; benevolence, charity, admire passionatley; delight in. Think I'd rather be tolerant rather than have alot of tolerance as for love think I'll just stick to the delight ing in and benevolence of. And save the admire passionatley and warm affection for my wife. The only time I become a doormat is when I am not being me or I accept guilt that is not mine.


Member: Elizabeth M
Location:
Date: 7/19/2002
Time: 1:48:53 PM

Comments

Love and tolerance sounded good to me when I first came into AA until several guys tried 13th stepping me. I'm 10 months sober and opt for tolerance of men in the program and love for the women where I am making good friendships. Stick with the winners inside AA and try Al-A-Non for detaching. I've decided I'm going to do this since in reality I am dealing with alcoholics every day in AA.


Member: Brittany C
Location: west virginia
Date: 7/20/2002
Time: 12:20:02 AM

Comments

I have been in the program for almost 6 mnths now and i have already seen a change in how i view people, myself, and STUFF. i have always likes to help people and just seem to be the sweet, loving and innocent one, but while doing all this i hated myself so the first thing i have had to learn is to love myself because if you dont love your self then you cant give your love to others!! also thank you all of you for all your comments. i love you all!!!


Member: J-Rae
Location:
Date: 7/20/2002
Time: 1:27:17 AM

Comments

Great topic. J-Rae, alcoholic here. I'd like to share that I feel that tolerance is easier when I remember how people and my HP tolerated ME when I was practicing my illness. I wouldn't have listened to anyone giving a lecture, anyway. So, Live and let live is a good slogan here. If I'm working the steps, I won't be anyone's doormat.


Member: Margaret M.
Location: Richmond, IN
Date: 7/20/2002
Time: 11:51:08 AM

Comments

Hi! I'm Margaret and I'm an alcoholic. This topic is my Higher Power speaking through all of you! No kidding, I have been working on this shiznit for the last couple of weeks in my tenth step. A while back I was a doormat because I decided that I would take responsibility for everybody else's defects, then I started working on confronting others, and got to a point where I was a resentful uber-bitch. So I am moving back in forth between the two extremes and with the strength of my Higher Power holding my tongue, I am learning to be tolerant of others. The hardest ones to be tolerant of for me are the normals, as far as people in the program, if they aren't drinking or using then they are better off than they were so I can sometimes be more patient with them. I am also becoming painfully aware of what the Third Tradition means (the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking) and that's all I can ask of others in the program. For me its all tenth step stuff, when I make ammends I am taking responsibility for my part and giving the responsibility of others that I have chosen to take on back to them. The last thing I have to comment is that the people who were intolerant of me in this program were the ones that did not help me, they were not a living example of how this thing works, so I guess what I am working on today is getting to the point where I can be a good example of this program to others, because it has helped me so much, I owe it to everyone else to show them that.


Member: Dave W
Location: Daytona
Date: 7/21/2002
Time: 1:39:27 AM

Comments

Tolerance!!!! aarrrrrrrrrrrrgh. Haveing great trouble with this topic at present. Trying to find employment so that I may have an income so I can have a place to live and eat. Getting so I feel I cannot contribute to the basket as it is being past. May need to sell this system also.


Member: Jeremy S.
Location: San Diego, CA
Date: 7/21/2002
Time: 5:43:52 AM

Comments

I'm Jeremy, Alcoholic/Addict, and this is my first time reading or sharing here. i'm going to have to go back and read all the shares posted after i share mine, but this topic was So right on with what i was JUST talking about not even 10 minutes ago with a fellow recovering Alkie/Addict that i had to scroll to the bottom and share NOW, and i am SO GRATEFUL for the opportunity. Love and Tolerance for me start with my Higher Power. While i consider myself one who believes in God, i had horrible past experiences with organized religion and the first thing i was attracted to at the First 12 step meeting i ever went to was the fact that in AA you can have a room with 50 people who have 50 very different perceptions and names for their Higher Power, but EVERYONE in the room knows that we're all talking about the same thing. this is the culmination of the past several years of my spiritual beliefs but i did not know it until i got to AA/MA! for me, the strength i get from my HP allows me to be tolerant of others regardless of how opposite me and my beliefs they may be. even people i would go so far as to say i can't stand are in my prayers in a positive way each day. this is not something i was ever taught in a church! while many religious groups frown upon AA/MA's concept of "God as i understand him to be", this was a saving grace for me. had it required membership in any organized religious sect i'd br drunk to this day. i've been given the gift of recovery and and life by my higher power and He spreads his healing message of love and tolerance through me and all other members of AA/MA daily! take it one day at a time...24 more hours for me till i get my 30 day token, and, Higher Power willing, i'm never looking back.