Member: Jan BB
Location: Paris, France
Date: 7/6/2003
Time: 8:00:27 AM
How about practicing these principles in all our affaris?
Member: SuzyQNJ
Location: NJ
Date: 7/6/2003
Time: 10:26:53 AM
For me it's about trying to do the next right thing in my daily life. Pay-offs can seem few and far in between, but I decided I wanted to live a 'decent life'. So even if it doesn't seem to be any reward in it for me, I have to do the things in life that are considered to be 'the right thing' to do. Pay my bills first before buying something I 'want', doing something that would be good for my children instead of always thinking of myself fist, driveing with curtousy and not getting upset when someone does something stupid, trying to be understanding with people who are being rude or mean and considering that they may have difficult things in their life that affect how they deal with me. I listen to Jiminey Cricket, "Let your conscience be you guide". If I know that something I do rubs me the wrong way, I know I will be dealing with it again somewhere down the road. I know what is right and what is wrong. Choosing what is right is ultimately easier then the consequences of choosing something I know is wrong. But, I am still human and apparently I wil have to work on this one for the rest of my life, and even then will never be perfect. That's ok as long as I just keep trying.
Member: John O'L
Location: DFW Texas
Date: 7/6/2003
Time: 10:30:58 AM
Good Morning to all from John O'L, a recovering alcoholic from Texas with over 21 years sobriety thanks to my HP, this program, and all those who are part of it. It has been my experience that to try to segregate segments of our lives and decide that we will not practice the principles of Alcoholics Anonymous in these areas of our lives is risking a slip. Then, when we find our lives not entirely to our liking, we wonder why our program has failed us? The truth is that we can fail the program by not working it whole-heartedly or by rejecting those aspects of it that we find not to our liking. The program of AA is not a cafeteria, where we can pick and choose among those dises that we find pleasing and leave that which pleases us not. If we practice the principles in all our affairs to the best of our ability (not to perfection, because we understand that for humans perfection is an ideal that will not be attained), then we can know a better life than we might have imagined open to us. Hope everyone has had a wonderful 4th of July weekend, and that your today and your tomorrows will be filled with Blessings!
Member: Lois Laatsch
Location: California
Date: 7/6/2003
Time: 11:25:41 AM
Thanks for a great topic Jan, and the insighful sharing so far. I believe I need to practice these principals in all my affairs to stay sober, and ..... its like a bonus ...... I get a great life when practice these principals in all my affairs. Love and hugs to all.
Member: AZbill
Location: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Date: 7/6/2003
Time: 12:52:13 PM
HI. Bill, alcoholic from Arizona. Good topic Jan. Over the years, I have found that this program works very well in these rooms. But the real test of it is out there on the street. I did not trade a bar stool for a seat in AA. In other words trade isolating in booze for isolating in recovery. Once I got a fair toe holt on the 12 Steps I found it was a pretty simple matter to take these principles outside of the meetings. I was able to give back to the community what I took away. I got along better in the work place. In the community. In the family. I began to understand the waitress whose feet hurt so bad that she could cry. The nurse that had to double over because her relief didn't show up. The clerk who just got news that a family member died and was waiting for a replacement to show up. I learned that everyone has their private Hell. Everyone needs a big ear or a broad shoulder every once in awhile. I have not only learned to express myself here in AA but to also listen to those around me...in and out of the program. Even the "village idiot" has a story to tell and needs to be listened to. Love you , hugs.. az-bill@mindspring.com
Member: Barb S
Location: Canada
Date: 7/6/2003
Time: 1:23:33 PM
Right on AZbill! What i have just read here is the most meaningful post I have seen in quite a while. Why isn't such understanding commonplace? Compassion is as important to give as to receive. We often think we know what is affecting someone else's life when in fact we haven't a clue.How's that for arrogance? Thanks for letting me share.
Member: Miguel
Location: San Jose, CA
Date: 7/6/2003
Time: 2:01:41 PM
Hi, I'm new to the site and the program. I have 7 weeks without a drink and still unsure about myself. I have a sponcer and have just started the steps. I'm having a hard time living in my skin without a drink. just a burning desire.. thnks for listening..
Member: Miguel
Location: San Jose, CA
Date: 7/6/2003
Time: 2:01:51 PM
Hi, I'm new to the site and the program. I have 7 weeks without a drink and still unsure about myself. I have a sponcer and have just started the steps. I'm having a hard time living in my skin without a drink. just a burning desire.. thnks for listening..
Member: Miguel
Location: San Jose, CA
Date: 7/6/2003
Time: 2:02:00 PM
Hi, I'm new to the site and the program. I have 7 weeks without a drink and still unsure about myself. I have a sponcer and have just started the steps. I'm having a hard time living in my skin without a drink. just a burning desire.. thnks for listening..
Member: JCH
Location: TEXAS
Date: 7/6/2003
Time: 2:19:09 PM
1-8-98 bhg This is a great topic. Hope everyone had a great 4th. Everything seems to be a learning experience. It seems that the longer I stay sober the simpler it gets. By that I mean I am able to see the truth alittle quicker. For me the truth is I must try my best each day to do the best I can or suffer the pain. Today I choose to feel no pain. thank you for sharing.
Member: suzanne b
Location: tri-cities
Date: 7/6/2003
Time: 7:20:19 PM
no comment
Member: Ken H.
Location: Trenton Ontario Canada
Date: 7/6/2003
Time: 8:44:23 PM
Hi my name is Ken and I am an alcoholic! I have a hangover today. I decided to take the Big Book at it's word in 1996 and embarked on an experimental journey with alcohol. And I didn't fare too bad as I am still alive. I had 6 years under my belt at that time and was starting to feel a little normal. I had stopped going to meetings for some time and got complacent. It was a decision that I made of sound mind. Well I am back. I didn't start getting drunk every day or lose my job or my family, but I can see it coming. I may have drank not more than a dozen times since 1996 but the behaviors and stinking thinking are right in there. My attitude has sucked since day one and I am simply not happy. I decided this morning as I poured 14 Buds down the drain, and after I barfed my guts out that I'd had it. The experiment is over and we have a successful conclusion, I AM AN ALCOHOLIC. And after being in the program for six years I can also conclude that sobriety in AA is a whole lot better than the precarious sobriety without it. I look forward to going out to my first meeting this week and seeing you all around those tables so I can start practising these principles in all of my affairs again!!! THANKS
Member: Jose MC
Location: Sunnyside, WA.
Date: 7/6/2003
Time: 9:54:28 PM
Hi my name is jose, i am an alcoholic, clean for 10 years. I want to respond to ken H. I'm glad to hear that you made the right choice and came back where you belong in A.A. Keep working your program. you will have a better life. thanks for letting me share. Happy fourth of july to everyone.
Member: Little Running Bear
Location: Saginaw, MI
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 5:01:40 AM
Bonjour, mon ami Jan. Merci beaucoup for the topic. When I first went to A.A., I looked at the twelve steps on the wall and, regarding practicing these principles in all our affairs, I asked "what principles?" The first eleven steps don't really set out any principles and no one could refer me to any set of principles in any A.A. literature. I then began my own quest for a set of principles to live by. For me, I live by the teachings and principles set down by Jesus in the New Testament. As the twelve steps are merely a restatement of the principles of the Oxford movement, a Christian movement, I went to the source. This works for me, as well as for all of the non-alcoholic Christians in the world. May all of you live in peace this day and may the guiding hand of our Lord be with you.
Member: Cec H
Location: Stampede City
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 6:24:08 AM
Ok, I am going to be a wiseass. What are these principles? Rather than an abstract thought, where would one find them writen down in black and white? In the Big Book yes, but what page? Enquiring minds might like to know.
Member: member
Location:
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 7:07:07 AM
B.B. pg. 45 Its main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself PRINCIPLE in my dictionary (first in rank or importance; chief. ) Twelfth step states quote. and to practice these principles in all our affairs. unquote. KIS..... keep it simple and I was simple enought to keep it. Hope this may help
Member: rookie
Location:
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 7:47:30 AM
So am I to understand that the steps are the principles, That will enable me to find a higher power. thus ful-fill the main purpose of the big book?
Member: Julia Anne
Location: Tacoma Wa
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 9:48:49 AM
Cec H, unfortunately, no where in either the steps or the big book are "these principles" ever set forth. This is one of the many "holes" in the A.A. program. It is up to each individual member to learn these principles, this individual code of conduct, for himself/herself. This is no different than the question faced by each and every member of the human race. Most people live their life by the code of conduct set forth by their religious beliefs. For Christians, those set forth in the New Testament. For Jews, those set forth in the Torah. For Muslims, those set forth in the Qu'ran. For others, some rely on the writings of the great philosophers, be it Plato or one of the more recent philosophers. I would suggest that you visit with a minister or similar person for some guidance in this area. A.A. is not going to give you much help on this dilema. Best wishes.
Member: Mike H
Location: Jackson MI
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 10:35:39 AM
Mike, alcoholic.My principals that I live by are fairly simple. One is to treat others as I would like to be treated. Try to give to others (within reason) instead of just taking. Another is to trust my HP and through prayer and meditation (not medication) try to do what is right. I also have came back to the program after an extended test and I too have made the decision that I am an alcoholic. Thanks for being here.
Member: L-RAY
Location: SCOTLAND
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 11:08:48 AM
Always knew you were a wiseass (((Cec)))lol, how it works explains the principals they are guides to progress! I try to live a decent life and be a good father ,husband, ect , and be as honest as i can in all my affairs!( not with the ladies)lol the program helps me to live this life and try my best,
Member: Chris T
Location: San Francisco
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 11:56:44 AM
My name is Chris and I am an alcoholic. If someone had given me a list of principals to live by when I walked into AA, I would have walked out and never come back. My life experiences shape my growth. Drinking to cover up my feelings, both good and bad, stunted my growth. I had no principals to live by. Through a great sponser, working the steps, becoming willing and teachable I now understand what "these principals" mean for me. It is my journey, these are my principals, and this is how I live. By talking and listening to friends in AA who have what I want, being really honest and couragous, and keeping close to my higher power, I get to experience life instead of just going through it in a haze.
Member: stepper
Location:
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 1:14:51 PM
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs. The 12 step are the principles refered to.
Member: AA-er
Location:
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 1:20:20 PM
The 12 steps ARE the principles refered to, as well as all the positive, stretching, growing, clear, and sobering ideas of the AA program!!
Member: tim d
Location: indiana
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 1:49:04 PM
hi i'm tim a alcohoic addict i think suzyq said it best the princibles are just knowing right from wrong and doing the right thing and with the help of a HP i try and do this in everyday life thank you for letting me share
Member: Susan A.
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 1:59:24 PM
Hi All, I'm Susan and I'm an Alcoholic. Got here on a Mon instead of Wed! Great way to start the week. I really wanted a list when I came in, and was pretty angry no one would tell me - have to laugh now, because I probably would have reacted the same as Chris T. said, and stomped out of the room. I think getting out of self-centeredness, then finding and living your own sober values is what's important. Practicing the principles means for me to commit to working the opposite of my character defects daily, and show to myself and others the core values of the steps & traditions. I do have a little 'Big Book Index' card now that I've carried in my book since '90. It has a list of 12 principles that work for me: step 1 Honesty, step 2 Hope, step 3 Faith, step 4 Courage, step 5 Integrity, step 6 Willingness, step 7 Humility, step 8 Brotherly Love, step 9 Justice, step 10 Preserverance, step 11 Spiritual, step 12 Service. I've seen other lists, too. Making your own is a great idea. When I stay in the solution and treat people like the divine beings they are, instead of acting out all over the place, they suddenly seem to get better. Amazing. Thanks, all.
Member: pat
Location: colbert, wa
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 2:31:05 PM
it seems like this has been a long road for me. Eight months ago my life was reversed when i was tossed in jail, nearly lost my job and my home, and was "forced" into treatement for alcohol abuse. Funny thing is that I am only 20 years old. This was probably the most influential thing that ever happened to me; my eyes were finally opened. I finally realized where i was going in life...absolutely nowhere! Now i only have a couple of weeks left in treatement. I am kind of worried about it, but i am also ready to move on with my life. Thanks to those who have played a part in this, and i wish good fortune and good times to all others.
Member: Ron L
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 3:57:04 PM
Julia Anne, Its was living by my own individual code that got me into the mess I found myself in, Ive been in and out of jail with a sentence many times, Beat my female partner more than once, took what I wanted cause I thought I needed it more than the owner, lied cheated and all the time thought the world was against me, I came to A.A. Apr.5/73. Been sober ever since and have never had to spend another night in jail on the principles of A.A. And today after reading your post I learn that A.A. has many holes,and that I better get my butte to a minister to find out how to live on a new set of princeples, as the one I got in A.A. aren't suppose to be working for me. ( in your opinion ) Funny that as a kid I was a church going alter boy. did I miss some thing back then ( Im 67 yrs old ) Have you ever read the book Alcoholics Anonymous. guess maybe you have, as you know all about the many holes in the program. Try reading chapter 5 HOW IT WORKS
Member: day day day
Location: tame tame tame
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 4:24:22 PM
We practice these principles in all our affairs, to wit we pray without ceasing; Our every intention is toward God and his will for us It means his government is in effect hear on earth as it is in heaven and our righteousness is summed up in this obedience that takes every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. For if our good works are not intended to please God in all we say and do then there is some motive for our actions either pride or self seeking or vain glory or any one of many such reasons that taint our piety. We ask nothing in return for what we do and are ready to amend all our ways in accordance with the word of God. So no matter if we come in or go out we accknowledge him in all our ways to the end that we will in no wise be ashamed before him in love..
Member: Craig L (Dogmanor@yahoo.com)
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 4:58:13 PM
Craig here, another real alcoholic (page 21) Great to see the newcomers and those coming back. For me the key word in this part of "How it Works" is practice. I am certainly no saint and I often fall short of doing even just the next right thing. When I fail, my only salvation is to "keep coming back", make amends and practice practice practice. I must practice tolerance, honesty and compassion, these things do not come naturally to me. If I don't practice then I will drink again, because I won't be able to stand myself or the world my sick little mind creates, left on it's own.
Member: night night night
Location:
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 8:23:49 PM
hey day day day from tame tame tame, that is bullshit because everybody has to find god for themselves and it may not be Christ to someone else
Member: Jose MC
Location: Sunnyside, WA
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 9:06:29 PM
Hi I'm Jose an alcoholic, addict I think susan A said it best, the way I understand the principles of A.A. Applying the twelve steps to your everyday life and to try to be a better person. when you apply the twelve steps to your life you are trying to be a different person than when you were out drinking and or drugging.alcohol robs you of your dignity, morals, etc. Happy 24 to everyone.
Member: Cy
Location: Tx.
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 9:13:31 PM
My name is Cy, I am a real alcoholoic. Pratice these principals in all my affairs to keep it simple for me just means that however I use to react to life I have to stop myself and ask is this how God would have me behave.My troubles were of my own making (BB pg. 62) For me the steps have been enough to teach me the principals of this wonderful program. They told me if you want what we have do what we do. So I showed up at alot of meetings and ask questions. How boring it would have been if some one would have just told me the principals it has been a journey learning as I go, besides I would have probley not believed something as simple as common courtesy among other things would make me began to feel good and alive again. As my sponser always told me you don't have to know all the answers at once just follow the design layed out in the BB of AA. Thanks
Member: Carlc
Location: nm
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 9:57:05 PM
To me practicing these principles in all my affairs is doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do instead of doing the right thing so that I can get to heavan or because I dont want to go th hell. This has allowed me to be a better son, brother, neighbor, employee etc, my sole purpose now is to be of maximum service to God and the people about me, people in and out of AA . The american dream of fancy cars and a fancy house is is just a byporduct of going to work everyday.
Member: Manny
Location: Down Under
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 10:42:52 PM
Very nice, Little Running Bear. I appreciate hearing someone claim and Name their faith. Very refreshing and welcomed, thanks!!!
Member: Pat G
Location: New Jersey
Date: 7/7/2003
Time: 10:46:45 PM
For those who wish to gain insight into Bill Wilson's thoughts on what he wrote in the 12 & 12 because the principles are referred to in a Step -- read the book Language of the Heart. I am sure you will find more than enough there to guide you.
Member: Mary
Location: Miami
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 12:24:45 AM
Julia Anne in Tacoma, Washington---you are right on the money honey---good job! Not many have the guts to tell the actual truth in AA, only some feined false-form of what they call such. You've obviously been around the program and seen some of the illusory perceptions as you mentioned the "holes." They are all too glaring at times and this is prime example, you're right. That's why running bear was so good, as he(or are you a she) has some valuable insight that AA doesn't provide and in fact discourages. Sad but true. Peace and Blessings for all on the journey of life,with or without alcohol.........
Member: bigg j.
Location: nevada
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 12:47:32 AM
The principles are the program to which to live by.All i can say is I started drinking at age 5 stopped at 33.AT 37 I no longer call my freinds and family at 2 in the morning with some hideous dilema.I found a god i could depend on.And with his help my life has become more than i could hoped for.For me progress is a goal.Perfection is to much work.Thanksb
Member: bigg j.
Location: nevada
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 12:48:38 AM
The principles are the program to which to live by.All i can say is I started drinking at age 5 stopped at 33.AT 37 I no longer call my freinds and family at 2 in the morning with some hideous dilema.I found a god i could depend on.And with his help my life has become more than i could hoped for.For me progress is a goal.Perfection is to much work.Thanksb
Member: Les
Location: San Diego
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 1:54:44 AM
A few of the principles I try to practice in all my affairs are; self examination, being of maximum use to others, asking for God's will in the conduct of my social intercourse, expecting no more of others than they are capable of or willing to give, finding my part in any altercation with others, making amends for the mistakes I make, being an asset to society instead of a burden, showing love by actions rather than words, remembering that in all things which come my way I am the decisive element, to turn to my Higher Power for guidance when indecisive, to seek council from the experience of others, to be rigorously honest with myself, remembering that love and tolerance of others is our code, continue to watch for selfishness, dishonesty, resentment and fear and when they appear taking the proper action to render them harmless. I could go on at some length, but, it, suddenly, occurs to me that the way for one to know and practice the principles of AA are to take the Steps in the order they appear and following the directions in the book, Alcoholics Anonymous. If this is done to the best of one's ability the principles, spiritual in nature, will become clear. Since I've typed the forgoing list of principles (an incomplete list) I'm leaving it in this posting. Jan BB, thank you for the subject. Cec, thank you for the challenge
Member: amg
Location: western state
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 3:25:00 AM
hello everyone, i have to agree with a lot of the others here. principles are doing right from wrong. and knowing. live every day as it was your last. do you want to die drunk or high? prayer to your higher power.(to whom or what ever it may be) good luck to all. and may my lord put his hand on your shoulder. thanks
Member: Bob
Location: UK
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 7:21:19 AM
Bob here - alcoholic. I echo Bill H's sentiments. When I try to live with the steps and examine my actions I seem to be more caring of others. I never went out of my way to be a better person - but if I try to live the program it seems to happen. Perhaps it's because I'm no longer the center of the universe. Which is a liberating (and sober) thought. Grateful to be on-line, quite ordinary and contentedly sober.
Member: Susie
Location: Kentucky
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 8:55:47 AM
Alcoholics Anonymous has saved my life and i am happy to be alive. Very grateful 2 be sober. i am not perfect i make many mistakes in life. The difference between now and then is i learn something from them. I stopped hitting my head against the brick wall. I learned that steps were not only to work but to apply to my daily life. I come in contact with people who live by principles everyday and i learn from them too. And they are not even in A.A. Wow never thought that i would be sober this long and my friends and family did not either. thank you all
Member: DebLH
Location:
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 1:05:55 PM
Debbie, recovering addict/alcoholic, I believe these principle are a result of practicing the steps. When I truly, honestly worked the 11 steps prior to the 12th I attained principles. I feel like I had many questions early on and tried to find flaws with this program, reasons it wouldn't work for me, but I never questioned what the principles were, when I started to work the program they became obvious to me. Honest, integrity, being a good person, and many of the other virtues I was suppose to have picked up from my religion. I never really got religion, but the spiritually of this program helps me to work on being a person with a conscience and morals, thing I lacked as a practicing alcoholic.
Member: Joan H
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 1:22:11 PM
Mary in Miami, and Julia Anne in Tacoma, You say A.A. is full of holes, OKAY Keeping to your topic where is the hole in this paragraph found in the big book on pg.133 " But this does not mean we disregard human health measures. God has abundantly supplied this world with fine doctors, psychologists, and practitions of various kinds. Do not hesitate to take your health problems to such persons. Most of them give freely of themselves that their fellows may enjoy sound minds and bodies. Try to remember that though God has wrought miracles amoung us, we should never belittle a good doctor or psychiatrist. There services are ofen indispensable in treating a newcomer and in following his case afterwards." So where is the hole in the A.A. program ? As I see it this is clear cut directions for those new and old in the program,
Member: ted s
Location: pa
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 1:25:42 PM
Hi, Ted, alcoholic. I've been on a 20 year experiment to decide if I was an "alcoholic", or just had "problems" that I could resolve on my own. Well, I've managed to come to an answer about it. I can't say booze has been all bad. I think it actually helped me through some really bad times. But now it's time is over for me. Now I need to quit. I'm glad I found this site. I hope I'm done experimenting. It is a clever disease. Thanks for letting me share.
Member: Mary
Location: Miami
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 4:23:36 PM
Joan H. from Phoenix>>> That is way too far of a stretch, sweetheart! AA is not part of any "medical profession." How absurd to use that particular statement to try and justify AA as being flawless. Are you really so brainwashed as to believe that AA has NO holes in it? I'll know for sure if you were going to reply that your brain needed washing, as that's yet the canned idiotic reply and proves the point. AA is many different things for many different people and for whatever that may be any given individual isn't the point. To be sure, you will be well recieved by "defending" AA from those as honest as I and Julia Anne, but you'll only be decieving yourself and those around you in the end. I don't need AA or the "fellowship" or even the steps for that matter. What I do need is God and that's how I've stayed sober for a long time. So what, as just not drinking is no principle that I want in my life, as that is but a sad, miserable way to live that is yes, all too common throughout AA. BIG HOLE if you think it's o.k. to promote that kind of behavior and the vast majority of AAer's do exactly that! Maybe you'll be the one to plug that hole, but it's there and ever widening, whether you are blind and don't see it or not. God Bless ya dear woman as I'm sure you mean well, but you do where they say good intentions can lead you................
Member: Jenny
Location: NJ
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 4:38:58 PM
Mary - no sweetie - bless YOU. Pretty sad when woman has to come on an AA board and spout anti-AA rhetoric. How hopelessly pathetic. Please love, get a life. The AA program works for people who want it to work. Clearly, it isn't for you. Would you go to an Atkins diet site and tell them what rubbish that diet plan is and how stupid they are for trying it? Get a life, hon. Sell your wares somewhere else, like RR for example? We've seen your kind before time and time again and for those who have found quality sobriety through AA and a happy way to live, your words are empty and shallow. Where exactly will "good intentions" lead those who speak of above? To a content, happy, joyous and free life? Ohhh - the HORROR. Never, never that! We must stay disgruntled and angry and bitter like yourself. Please stay and share some more - NOT. Smoooochh.
Member:
Location:
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 5:26:45 PM
Go suck a cock jenny ya fat slut bitch....
Member: Laura L.
Location: SC
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 9:21:30 PM
Back to the topic.....true honesty is a daily struggle for me, its a gift to only have to take it one day at a time. Practicing these principles in all affairs, for me, is being honest in all affairs--and that can be hard to do when the tendency is there to just ----do whatever and move on. Thats what I did for so many years, it didn't work of course. That's what insanity is-doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. thanks.
Member: Dawn
Location: Sacramento CA
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 9:49:42 PM
pmdawn2 says that witnout honesty you are going to be sick. Like I've been hearing you are only as sick as your secrets and God knows. Things will get worse and worse if you are not honest.
Member: Gil H
Location:
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 9:57:59 PM
"To thine own self be true..." was the principle I left treatment with 22 years ago. I remained sober for twenty one years, raising two children who never saw me take a drink. My marriage of 24 years is intact and I am gainfully employed. I am on the tail end of an 8 month relapse that began last October when I believed that my life couldn't get any better. This dis-ease is truly cunning, baffling and powerful. The truth about me is that I can't serve two masters - it is once again time to turn my eyes towards the Light. When one serves the Master of sobriety good tnings develop. I'm glad to be back among you - all of you familiar strangers.
Member: Dawn
Location: Sacramento CA
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 9:58:05 PM
pmdawn2 says that witnout honesty you are going to be sick. Like I've been hearing you are only as sick as your secrets and God knows. Things will get worse and worse if you are not honest.
Member: Dawn
Location: Sacramento CA
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 10:01:22 PM
pmdawn2 says that witnout honesty you are going to be sick. Like I've been hearing you are only as sick as your secrets and God knows. Things will get worse and worse if you are not honest.
Member: Jeff T.
Location: Ne.
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 10:25:48 PM
Jeff, Alcoholic. Thanks....Susan A. from Vernon, Connecticut. When i think of the princples of AA this is also what i feel the steps of AA has tought me. We have to work the steps to find out what princples we are to practice. (gotta do it to get it) These 12 princples are what was lacking it my life. "Step 1 Honesty, step 2 Hope, step 3 Faith, step 4 Courage, step 5 Integrity, step 6 Willingness, step 7 Humility, step 8 Brotherly Love, step 9 Justice, step 10 Preserverance, step 11 Spiritual, step 12 Service".
Member: Jackie C.
Location: Louisiana
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 11:13:00 PM
hi.i'm jackie,alcoholic.thank god i found this site.i had at one time over 5 yrs. sobriety.and i am in relapse and have been for over 2 yrs.my disease has progressed to the point of near death.almost died lasy year.and started again.i'm on my last leg here.so thank god i found somewhere that i can go to at anytime.god bless you all.
Member: mark m
Location: columbia tn
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 11:21:33 PM
hang in ther jackie one day at a time if you need to talk emial me at kidmills117@aol.com
Member: Boae
Location:
Date: 7/8/2003
Time: 11:39:45 PM
Gee's Bikerbaby leaves for a week, and the site is free from fowl mouthed postings. But in a blink of an eye we get someone to take her place. Ive seen and heard it all in f2f meetings so I can't get offended here by some one who Ill never see. The A.A. program is for alcoholics who have a desire to get sober, for the life of me I can't understand why alcoholics who are half in the bag show up at meetings. (I was one of them LOL) You'd think they would be down at the bar The other thing that has me baffled is why would anyone post on this site in order to criticize the A.A. program thats some thing I never have done. As a matter of fact when I was on a slip and drunk I never bad mouthed the program Which only leads me to believe that those who are doing it are not alcoholics thats only my opinion and it could change in a blink of an eye
Member: grateful member
Location: chicago
Date: 7/9/2003
Time: 12:17:31 AM
Principles over personalities.
Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 7/9/2003
Time: 12:18:18 AM
Hi ((Jackie)), Only you know when you've hit bottom. Sounds very bad right now. Ask God for help everyday to surrender. Keep coming back here for strength... God Bless. As for Practicing these principals in all our affairs or Step 12 it is a good topic. I have not had a spiritual awakening yet but hope to with Step 4 and 5. Step 12 is on pages 89-103 in the Big Book under Working With Others and pages 96-103 are on practicing these principles in all our affairs. My favorite part is on page 102.>>> While you were drinking you were withdrawing from life little by little. Now you are getting back into the social life of this world. Your job now is to be at the place where you can be of maximum helpfulness to others, so never hesitate to go anywhere if you can be helpful. You should not hesitate to visit the most sordid spot on earth on such an errand. Keep on the firing line of life with these motives and God will keep you unharmed.<<< Since I have not completed step 12 I can't really comment on it personally except for being on a couple 12 step calls and assisting other alcoholics get rides to meetings and being helpful to the newcomer. People who have gone through the Steps say that they practice Steps 10, 11 and 12 on a daily basis which lends itself to practicing these principals in all our affairs as they do a daily housecleaning, stay spiritually fit and carry the message and are of service to other alcoholics. I would like to get there one day and with Gods help I will. Thanks for letting me share. Kelly
Member: Jackie C.
Location: Louisiana
Date: 7/9/2003
Time: 1:12:45 AM
thanx kelly.i really appreciate what you said.
Member: Anonymous alcoholic
Location: 2689 Ridgecrest Dr
Date: 7/9/2003
Time: 5:15:03 AM
I used to kid around when the 12th step came up for discussion at our meetings: "since I've never had any AFFAIRS, this part of the step is easy for me." Yuk yuk. But this part of the 12th step is NOT easy for me because it means that I need to work ALL 12 steps ALL the time. That is especially hard for someone who believed that 'the only step we need to work perfectly is step 1'. Because, to be honest with you, I am a slacker. And when I heard 100% on step 1 and less than 100% on steps 2 thru 12, I figured that is my license to steal. Guess what? I am stealing from myself! I am the loser if I don't work each of these steps to 100% of my ability. Thanks for this topic Jan. It made me look in the proverbial mirror again.
Member: SJD
Location: NW
Date: 7/9/2003
Time: 10:50:09 AM
I believe that it is necessaray to apply the 12 steps in your daily routine. I am still very new to the program, but can see the importance of relating the programs values in my daily life. Not doing so runs the risk of a slip, and will take me away from being sober, and becoming a dry drunk.
Member: Bern
Location: Bothell, WA.
Date: 7/9/2003
Time: 11:32:19 AM
I read this topic yesterday but never had the chance to read any posts or to post myself. I woke up with it on my mind and asked myself the obvious question. What are the principles of this program? I'm sure for most of you the answer is plain but for me, I had never really contemplated just what the principles are. The first one that came to mind was honesty. I have found self-honesty to be one of the keys to freedom. The next one I thought of was powerlessness. For me, the serenity prayer is crucial in answering the question of Am I Powerless over this person, place or thing? How about confession? Is that a principle of the program? I think so. I think it goes hand in hand with self-honesty. Someone on the pot was talking about telling on themselves. Getting honest on this site (confessing) brought them to the question of telling on themselves to one of their roommates. This confession caused them to re-think the behavior and make a better decision. Willingness. Here is where I start to struggle. I don't seem to have a problem practicing the principles until I get to this one. I still need to be poked, prodded, coerced, and sometimes forced to be willing to do some things. Open-mindedness. I like to think I'm pretty open-minded. When I run up against something that I feel the need to fight or disagree with, I try to run it past St Francis. "Seek not to be understood, but to understand." I attempt to see things from someone else's point of view. My emotions can still get the better of me in the moment and I can lash out but this principle can help me to find my part in things and make proper amends (attempt to not repeat behavior). I think I do okay at practicing the principles in all my affairs. I could do better. Progress, not perfection. Now I'll go read what you all have said.
Member: RICHARD B
Location: KANSAS
Date: 7/9/2003
Time: 2:49:54 PM
HI EVERYONE RICHARD AN DRUNK FROM KANSAS JUST LOOK AT WHERE YOU'VE CAME FROM AM WHERE YOU'RE AT NOW!!!! YOU'VE GOT TO LIKE YOUR SELF, AND BELEIVE IN YOUR SELF I HEARD IN A MEETING I'D WOULD,NT ALLOW ANYONE ONE ELSE PUT ME THROUGH WHAT I PUT MYSELF THROUGH. AND FOR EVERY 60 SECONDS OF ANGER YOU LOSE 1 MIM. OF HAPPYINESS. JUST DON'T LEAVE BEFORE THE MIRCAL HAPPENS
Member: lastgasper
Location: hereandnow
Date: 7/9/2003
Time: 5:54:01 PM
if your are having trouble practicing these principles in all your affairs...maybe you have too many affairs! peace out all
Member: eliz. G
Location: Utica
Date: 7/9/2003
Time: 6:02:38 PM
I cannot blame the world for my misery anymore. in step four I had to figure out where I had been self seeking,dishonest and afraid.Shared this with my sponsor in step 5 and then every day I ask that these defects be removed, because resentment is the #1 offender for the alcoholic, and I only have one and 1/2 weeks sober coming back after being around for twelve years. I'm in a new area also and new meetings, very different than what I'm used to.
Member: alba g.
Location: long island,ny
Date: 7/9/2003
Time: 9:04:32 PM
hi,this is my first time on an online meeting,i'm struggling a little bit please help.
Member: Shandi M.
Location: Oceanside, CA
Date: 7/9/2003
Time: 10:00:25 PM
I needed to hear this. Thanks alot everyone for all the perpectives Richard B. from Kansas said had some wise and pratical suggestions. Thanks agian
Member: Mark D
Location: NH
Date: 7/9/2003
Time: 10:06:29 PM
Mark; alcoholic here. Soon coming up on my 2nd anniversary after cashing in my chips, so to speak, at 9 months the first time around. No regrets on that pre-meditated drunk. It proved to me that alcohol just didn't work anymore. I felt a real sense of acheivement and gratitude when I got that first medallion. Some people told me that the 2nd year is harder. Well, it was in many respects, though not involving drinking. Losses, in chronological order of course; my 13 yr. old cat died; my father passed away after a month of difficult health problems and a lot of decisions put on my shoulders; my 11 year old dog died and 2 weeks ago- after 21 years I lost my job due to downsizing. None of these things compelled me to drink. All of these things compelled me to seek out those who I have come to know and trust in the fellowship of AA. So many of these people went through times much harder than I have faced and live live with optimism, joy and yes, real class.I feel I could do no less than live up to their faith in me. But, as Mel Brooks said, "Comedy is when you break your leg; tragedy is when I get a sliver in my finger". My tendency has always been to swallow my emotions in times like these. Eventually I would end up swallowing lots of bourbon to wash it down. I've got to allow myself to feel and then--get over it. At least that's what my sponsor tells me. And his sponsor. And our mutual friend.And that's how it works...
Member: Mikey
Location: Somewher olong the Mississip
Date: 7/10/2003
Time: 12:12:55 AM
Gil, Jackie, and Alba))) Hi friends. Glad you're here. Pull up a chair, get comfy, and hold on. Your in the hands of God now and if ya's just stick around and keep trying, you can do it. You guys all know what you've got to do, now God'll help with and through all of the friends you're now amongst. Mostly at real meetings, church, your hometowns in general, and yes, even here. Someone is at the coffepot pretty much 24 hours a day and althoguh we can be somewhat "unruly" over there at times, ALL of us are willing to listen and chit-chat with anyone struggling over wanting a drink at that particular moment in time. May God keep you all safe from harm, especially ETOH, and please keep on trying gang, your worth it and we know you can do it. Welcome home Gil and gals, we love ya's..../
Member: Arthur E.
Location: Texas
Date: 7/10/2003
Time: 2:31:12 AM
Hi, I'm Arthur and I am a Greatful Member of Alcoholics Anonymous!!!!!! This is the first chat meeting i have been to i was directed to search one out on the net by a co-worker. This has got to be the neatest thing I have seen. Staying on Topic >> Step 12 . When I first got to step 12 I though "that's it? wow that I feel great and this is a simple program like they say" My sponsor quickly humbled this thought in my head by reminding me that it took about a year to get this far. and that if i looked at the clock on the wall 1 comes after 12. reminding me that this program is a process, I have to realize that as I go through my day I may be the only contact that another alcoholic has with the program - if i dont practice these principles in all of my affairs then i am not carrying this message to the still suffering alcoholic... and again the same for me when i dont take the direction of the 12th step i become complacent then i become a suffering alcoholic -- This program and people like you saved my life and for this and you i am etermally greatful.
Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 7/10/2003
Time: 8:12:05 AM
Hi ((Arthur E)), Sorry to double dip but you mentioned something so important. Being there for the still suffering alcoholic and how good it is for our own sobriety to help out when we can. Yesterday I went on a 12th step call. I was at a noon meeting and a call came in that a woman I know was drunk and suicidal. A few of us volunteered to go see her. She was in bad shape but we got her to the hospital and I was praying the whole way she would not jump out of the car or take all her pills. The woman in the back with her was wonderful and kept her from taking all her pills. We left when they had her in a room and comfortable. Last night I dropped off a plant and a card from all three of us and when I left I felt so good inside. I have been at that horrible low point where I felt I could never stop drinking and just wishing God would take me but to chicken to kill myself. Listening to her made me remember it like yesterday. I knew when I volunteered to take the call it was not going to be fun or pretty but it was good for this drunk to remember when my life was on the line. I feel like if I took every 12th step call it would never be enough to pay back all AA has given me. The 12th Step is about one drunk helping another. Greatfully, Kelly
Member: Cat
Location: CA
Date: 7/10/2003
Time: 12:26:57 PM
To Jeff T.. Ne. RIGHT ON, that list that coincides with the 12 steps is utterly perfect...AMEN to all that!
Member: Ed K.
Location: Santa Monica
Date: 7/10/2003
Time: 2:12:51 PM
Hi All, Ed alcoholic. By the Grace of God, practicing the principles contained in the program of AA, and the fellowship of AA, I am sober and clean today and have been since 4/15/86. I once heard that someone asked Bill W. to "boil down" the principles to their most basic form. He said six words, "trust god, clean house, and help others". Viewed in that way I can live a life according to those simple principles, not always perfectly but progressively better than I was. And to Miguel from San Jose, welcome! I still remember how it feels to be hurting and uncertain, full of fear. So stay close my brother, it gets better I promise. Pray alot, it worked for me.
Member: Roy T.
Location:
Date: 7/10/2003
Time: 11:46:16 PM
Hi. Roy Alcoholic. Was sober 10 years. Went back out for 5 or 6. Am a newcomer again and am squirrely but have been down this road before so I know that this too shall pass and not to take myself so seriously. Guess I had forgotten that when I became the A. A. policeman in my home group which eventually lead to my feelings of rejection and deciding to get drunk. As far as I am concerned the only holes in A. A. are those connected to someones backside. Just my opinion.
Member: Becca
Location: California
Date: 7/11/2003
Time: 3:00:48 AM
Hi, I am new to AA. Well, pretty new, I have 101 days. It sure has been interesting. I have seen plenty of small miracles in just this short time. One of them being, "this too shall pass". I sure hope it sticks. It's beautiful to see the growth in myself and others. I'm new to the "online" thing. I sure love how you can hook up to the program through so many ways. I'm on my 4th step and it sure is time consuming but so far I continue to trudge the Road of Happy Destiny. I try and Keep It Simple, go One Day At A Time, and One Step At A time. Thank you for letting me share.
Member: Tittus
Location:
Date: 7/11/2003
Time: 6:48:43 AM
Tittus, alcoholic. I go to a lot of face to face mgts. I like comming here to read the posts, for the past two weeks they have been an enjoyment for me to read. I like to hear about members and there experience practicing the pricipals of A.A. It tugs at my heart reading about another alcoholic helping a new comer. I appreciate hearing about those who left and are back to give it another try. I am one who left after a rapid succession of slips and came back eight yrs. later, I now have over 30 years of sobriety. And to those who come here and swear and criticize the program I feel sorry for you. I truly hope that you are not alcoholic cause if you are." you just might be doomed." Thanks for letting me share It is just the way I feel this morning. Full of love. Think Ill go to a meeting.
Member: Ray
Location: Woodstock Ontario Canada
Date: 7/11/2003
Time: 7:57:48 AM
Hi all, my name is Ray and I am an alcoholic.... About 22 years ago I read in the Grapevine that a member was confusrd about the Let go and let God. Then he made a statement I never forgot. He said "my goal must be to seek and develop a God consciousness within me and ALLOW that consciousness to govern my life". That is what I decided to do. That is simple. When I was in the bars, I didn't have to think of whether to order another drink before the first was even served or try to find the words to hustle someone out of whatever I wanted. The words and actions came automatically from another consciousness I had developped over the years. Now here is the kicker!!!!! After more than 19 years of good sobriety and AA action, I thought I was cured and made a "logical" decision and stopped coming to AA. It was about 2 years and I began drinking. Five years later,(last week) I could not take this conflict of value and behaviour and went to my first meeting and it is so good to be home again. It took a while but it takes as long as it takes. Like Dr. Bob, being and alcoholic does not mean being a bum on the street. Like him I "just liked my grog". It is truly an insane addiction. One day at a time I am enjoying the romance of recovery once more. God keep you all.
Member: joe s.
Location: Michigan Rezdog
Date: 7/11/2003
Time: 8:19:13 AM
joe, garden variety alcoholic. walking through those steps with adult supervision has brought a degree of serenity and consistency in my life. the alcoholic seen at the meetings is the same one you see at home, at work and around the community. the message we carry is one of the "spiritual awakening as the result of these (the previous 11) steps. still practicing ... miigwetch!
Member: aj
Location:
Date: 7/11/2003
Time: 8:23:58 AM
aj, alcoholic. great topic jan. i've been reading bill w.'s grapevine article on emotional sobriety about giving without demanding a return and doing it joyously. he talks about those of us who choose to "hew to right principles" but somehow aren't able to do it joyfully. for him, it was his dependencies which were a demand for the possession and control of people and situations that robbed him of the joy of giving without expecting something in return. that's the principle that took him past the "booze cure" to a quiet place of warm sunshine. all that looks like my next right thing, suzyq. thanks for your comments. and thank you all for being here.
Member: Kathleen
Location: Florida
Date: 7/11/2003
Time: 9:16:44 AM
Hello (((Everyone))) Good topic Jan.. I try to read the daily reflections every day, pray, talk to other alcoholics, and generally try to live by the golden rule of treating others how I would like to be treated and today I like to be treated good. Like AZbill said, practicing the principles inside the rooms is pretty easy, it's out there in life that matters. Working the 12 steps and living by the principles is what helps me in all my "affairs" ie work, and the general public. I like to give a smile to everyone that I see. Had a key chain that is now broke that was a heart and said, "smile, it's contagious"... When I was first new in the program I liked that feeling of self pity, thought I could get attention that way. Today, thanks to AA and my hp and all of you, I like to feel happy and positive instead of seeping in self pity. Love ya'll Kathleen
Member: Mike
Location: D.C. today
Date: 7/11/2003
Time: 3:45:24 PM
For me, the twelve steps are but a minute part of a much broader and higher standard of living. It's much as Little Running Bear stated as I have a much more faithful practice of attempting to follow a set of standards that quite simply put, makes the 12 steps seem like childs play. Obviously I don't do everything perfectly, but I darn sure try to from a spiritual perspective. I AM striving for sainthood, and I CAN reach it. The whole AA thing is a cop-out for immoral behavior of sayin "we are not saints." The point IS, I am attempting to broach that road and the higher precepts of which AA and the steps were founded on leave them as nothing more than "spiritual kindergarten." That's actually one of the few sayings that I totally approve of in AA as most of them are trite and partial-truths at best. NOT that one, it's right on the money and applies directly to practicing all the principles as leading a more devout life absolutely requires me to do. Funny thing is, it is a joy! People have this misperception that it's strictly about an ascetic lifestyle, how wrong and sad. Needless to say, it's pretty much a given that with my life the way it has evolved, I will never drink again as I have truly been healed by the One does have ALL power! May each and every one of us find Him now and these principles become so much easier and simple..........
Member: Pete D.
Location: Arkansas
Date: 7/11/2003
Time: 5:16:17 PM
Hi, my name's Pete and I'm an alcoholic. Wow, this is my first online meeting. If I had known about these, I would have been here a lot sooner. I'm coming up on my first year of sobriety (July 15th). A year ago today, I couldn't imagine a year of sobriety. How strange. I made this year because of AA, and most importantly, because of the topic we're discussing: "Practicing these princples in all our affairs." I don't all the time, but I try, and that's what matters. Sobriety actually came to me pretty easy through the guidance of the program and my higher power. I haven't had to struggle as hard as I've seen many others have to struggle. Maybe my time will come, though I pray it doesn't. Anyway, glad I found these online meetings. Plan to become a regular! Pete
Member: Jules
Location: Chicago
Date: 7/11/2003
Time: 9:17:50 PM
_______________________________ ******************************* LETS REMEMBER OUR PURPOSE: _______________________________ ******************************* . Member: Miguel Location: San Jose, CA Date: 7/6/2003 Time: 2:01:51 PM Comments Hi, I'm new to the site and the program. I have 7 weeks without a drink and still unsure about myself. I have a sponcer and have just started the steps. I'm having a hard time living in my skin without a drink. just a burning desire.. thnks for listening. _______________________________ ******************************* Hello Miguel, I am sorry I didn't respond to you. I regret no one else did either. We are suposed to be there for each other. To be of service to each other. I know how you feel. Truely I do. I used the same words you did; I couldn't live in my own skin and when I did, I didn't like the company. Please find someone among us to talk to, meet with, walk with. You're in the thickest of times. The best of times is yet to even be considered possible. Hang in there. Julie
Member: Don L.
Location: nrth dakota
Date: 7/11/2003
Time: 9:53:27 PM
hi my name is Don and i'm an alchaholic drug addict. this is my first visit . seems like a cool place . I've been straight about four months and so far things are alrite. I have beenattending meetings once a week and think they are cool. with that Ill just continue to read thanks
Member: LebanonTom
Location: Nashville
Date: 7/11/2003
Time: 11:43:14 PM
Hi, I'm Tom and I am an alcoholic now residing, for three days, in Lebanon, TN. I got sober in New Orleans and already miss my groups, sponsor, sponsees, girlfriend, etc. The good folks in AA here have been most hospitable and it certainly helps to have a lot of meetings in this--the Nashville area. I live a good distance away from the city in a rural area with good sobriety but miss the late night coffee fanatics and hard-core recovery types that we had in NOLA. People just go home after meetings here and I feel isolated after the meetings end. I have used the phone alot, but primarily to my AA homies in New Orleans at night. After 10 years of sobriety, two years removed from divorce, nearly broke, and searching for a job in a place I know little about, I still find myself at step one in oh so many ways. I beg of God to show me His will and wonder if I am on the right track or not. In any event, I just feel better writing even if He is the only one who reads this. I can't, you can, please do. Thank you for letting me share and I hope we all stay sober.
Member: Avid
Location: Lurker
Date: 7/12/2003
Time: 12:43:32 AM
Hang in there Tom, you're not alone and somebody besides God is reading. Keep on truckin my friend, you'll be fine. Check out the cofee pot as that's where people usually hang just to talk, just like at real meetings. We can be a little rough at times but if you're from the Big Easy and sober 10 years you'll fit right in, give it a shot!
Member: Becca
Location: California
Date: 7/12/2003
Time: 12:48:07 AM
Well, congrats to Pete for your 1 year! Welcome to Miguel and Don. Hang in there! It is a ride but I think it is one worth taking. Totally understand about being uncomfortable in your skin. It's awful. But I just keep holding on to faith. I do pray, on my knees, something I've NEVER done before. It is humbling, which is such a good place to start for this alcoholic. Tom, thanks for your share. Takes guts to share your experience. It's all good. I have to remember, It Works If You Work It. So, I guess.......I'll work it! :)
Member: sober member
Location: tx
Date: 7/12/2003
Time: 3:51:07 AM
It is great to here alot of peoples opinions on what the principals are. I had a coach who use to say opinions are like armpits and ___holes. Everyone has them, but no one wants them. The book states very clearly and simply what the principles are in A.A. Our traditions are also clear on the fact that we have no opinion on outside issues. The program has worked for 60 years when many other things have not. I for one have been given the greatest gift of my life by working the principles or steps of AA. The freedom to not have to drink alcohol.
Member: L-RAY
Location: SCOTLAND
Date: 7/12/2003
Time: 6:08:22 AM
((((Don-Tom-Pete))) welcome hope you guys are doing ok! if you would like to have a chat: mclaren.landscapes@ntlworld.com regards L-Ray
Member: Nora
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Date: 7/12/2003
Time: 6:30:18 AM
Mike fr. D.C. Nice post... I have a prayer and it goes like this. " God please don't make me a saint, The ones I know are so hard to live with." There is nothing that this down and out drunk can identify with that comes out of the mouth of a spiritual giant. There is a paradox found on page 279 in the book, " A.A. Comes of Age." In part it reads... " the member of A.A. approaches his suffering alcoholic brother not from the superiority and strength of his position of recovery but from the realization of his own weakness." Old timers in A.A. those with more than 30 years just seem to have a glow of serenity about them, and it can not be acquired without trugging the road. I could be wrong, but thats the way I feel at this moment.
Member: Melissa B
Location: Canada
Date: 7/12/2003
Time: 12:47:49 PM
Nora, thanks for the laugh and a gentle poke at the very black-and-white post from Mike. I heard a prayer the other day much like yours, "God, help me please to always seek the truth, and please spare me the company of those who have already found it." As for the topic, I enjoy going to meetings. In the non-recovery world, people seem mostly to deal with each other from a postion of strengths, where in meetings, everyone there is aware of everyone else's vulnerability and weakness. I clean up well, but the truth is, I am an alcoholic woman and a mother who used to drink destructively. My presence at meetings is a mute pronouncement of my human-ness, and my hubris. I have found that people seem to connect on a more, profound and meaningful level when they are dealing from a place of mutual vulnerability. It's easier for me to be honest with people who don't mind letting me see their flawed selves. It was in meetings and by listening to people tell their own stories that I started to understand my story. Odd how that works. My story isn't over yet, so I keep going to meetings, and I keep learning more. At the very least, a meeting offers me the chance to sit and be still and listen, or not listen, for an hour. In this world, that is a very big thing to me. Encouragement and support to the newcomers, it can and does get better. I didn't sober up and become a programmed robot, I sobered up and am growing into who I truly am. It's mostly loose and free and comfortable in my own heart and head now, and boy, that's a long, long way from how it used to be.
Member: Melissa again...
Location:
Date: 7/12/2003
Time: 12:56:34 PM
Oh. Oops. Wrong meeting. Not the biggest mistake I've ever made, just one of the crowd. Shall go now, and try to wake up....
Member: Becca
Location: California
Date: 7/12/2003
Time: 11:23:18 PM
Well Melissa, if you read this, I'm glad you got the wrong meeting. It was a great share. I agreed with you about vulnerability. It was a mistake of mine to believe that if I was honest about my shortcomings, everyone would leave. I'm seeing that it's the opposite. They get closer. This is the road to honesty and admitting your faults, not hiding them. It is like opening the door and feeling the fresh air on my face.
Member: Jan BB
Location: Paris France
Date: 7/13/2003
Time: 3:37:58 AM
Thank you everyone, my thinking on this AA statement has shifted. There is nothing new or added to be gleaned from me; this was a good week of reading and thinking. Welcome to the new folks and keep coming back! HOPE for ((Everyone))janbbparis@yahoo.com