Member: paul
Location: uk
Date: 04 Jul 1999
Time: 11:34:40

Comments

Making amends for the wrongs that we committed whilst drinking.


Member: Joe de
Location: Wahsington State
Date: 04 Jul 1999
Time: 12:13:35

Comments

Working the 8th and 9th Steps are an integral part of being able to live the promisses that we talk about in the big book. The important part is to continually be willing and to attempt to go to any lengths possible to make amends except when to do so would injure others.

That is particularly true of those we love. Sometimes we have devasted family situations and those we love do not want to have anything to do with us and they go to any lengths to stay away for our attempts at making amends. We must ask our higher power to help us and we must be always willing to be there for with love and a a spirit of forgiveness in order for others to forgive us.

Amends are sometimes some of the most lengthy part of fulfilling the completion of your personal inventory. Once done it is a good feeling. Sometimes through death and other circumstances we can't make amends. The spirtual fact is we can providing our faith is there. That is letting go and letting God.


Member: sq ft
Location: MD
Date: 04 Jul 1999
Time: 13:13:50

Comments

why bother??? well, we must clear away the wreckage of our past. we know from our experience that we must live 'free' FREEDOM FROM SELF WE ASK FORGIVENESS AND BECOME WILLING TO MAKE AMMENDS WE OFFER TO MAKE RESTITUTION FOR OUR MISDEEDS we then can move on to living this simple program... on a daily basis...... promptly admitting when we were wrong.... making daily ammends...... continuing to better our knowledge of a Higher Power.... sharing our "E,S, and Hope" ..... ..... and I will surely meet some of you as we Trudge the road of Happy Destiny.... Peace.....


Member: JCP  ^\^
Location: W.Pa.
Date: 04 Jul 1999
Time: 15:01:24

Comments

http://www.drbobs.com/coffee.html

J here, a grateful alcoholic:

A man in the click, Bill Dotson, was the pigeon that Bill W. and Dr. Bob 12th-stepped before there was a 12th Step.

I do not think he wrote anything (I'd be interested in a reference if anyone knows more) but his sobriety actually launched AA into a lot bigger future than a couple of oddball buddies chasing drunks around Akron. Bill Dotson became the Third Man.

It's good to draw the steps into this discussion, but don't you think it works both ways? The steps guide us into sobriety that is more than abstinence. Still, it could hardly work by merely mailing out lists of the 12 Steps -- that certainly is not how AA started. It is in the meetings that we gain the insight and security to actually push those steps.

Visiting my brother who is in the program in another state a few years ago (and for now doesn't have a computer to see this on), I joked that my son (also in the program in a third state) was attending ACOA (Adult Children of Alcoholics) -- you know, I'm his topic every damn week! He (the brother) lets me finish and then says unsmiling, "When are you going to make the amends?"

This was long after my formal 8th and 9th, when I simply made a list and dialed a phone number -- the worst first. You know what happened: I got hung up on. Case closed.

I know it is more complicated but, not to take too much space here, for me in the context of AA it has worked as well as I would work it. Steps and meetings are two elements of the same program.

One of those slogans might even be altered to read, "Meet The Friends of Both Bills" -- Bill W., whom many of us know from "As Bill Sees It," not a bad way to see it, either; plus Bill D., the silent Third Man most of us never heard of, whose sobriety lifted AA from a friendship into a fellowship.


Member: Evi B.
Location: Nevada
Date: 04 Jul 1999
Time: 17:02:26

Comments

My name is Evi B and I'm an alcoholic. Happy 4th to everyone. Making amends is not easy but so worth it. Today I have the freedom to go anywhere and not be afraid of who I might see. My head is held up high-I look people in the eye-I am free from the wreckage of my past. I am no greater or lower than anyone. The last person I had to make amends to (which I had been avoiding) walked on to an elevator which I was on. Talk about a long ride up!!! Well God gave me the opportunity and you know what?? I had to refresh her memory of who I was...ME who had resented her for so long...ha ha. Well needless to say she forgave me...she wasn't sure what for exactly...lol. And I felt a new freedom. The promises started to come to pass. By the way you need not be drinking to create wreckage...I did plenty sober too. But that is what the 10th step is all about. God bless.


Member: David M.
Location: Clovis, Ca.
Date: 04 Jul 1999
Time: 17:23:18

Comments

Hi. I'm David. Recovered Alcoholic. The 8th and 9th step are simple steps if a thorough 4th and 5th step has been done with a sponsor as it is instructed in the "Big Book". We derive our 8th step list from the 4th column of the 4th step. Which reveals the exact nature of our wrongs. These issues are usually best determined between an honest evaluation of that 4th column in my 5th step discussion and evaluation with my sponsor. This is where we get our 8th step list. This why I don't symbollicaly "burn" my fourth step (i.e. as a consumation to the completion of the 5th step.) this is not an instruction in the "Big Book" when dealing with cleaning up our past. There are a few problems for me if I do this. The first problem is when I go to make my 8th step list I no longer of a thorough exact basis on which to draw from because I burnt it somewhere along the line between the 5th and 8th step. When this happens I am reduced to trying to conveniently remember those people and situations I am to make amends and more importamtly, why. If I am trusting my sponsor is treating in confidence what he heard in my 5th step then asking my sponsor what I have to make amends for is like an act of futility. Not to mention that it may be self-centered of me to assume that my 5th step is the only one my sponsor has heard and therefore should remember mine in specific detail. Problem two that I found with the "burn" technique is that I happen to believe the old-timers when they tell me that it may take a lifetime to make all the amends on my original 8th step list. I've been sober 6 short years and low and behold there are still amends on the list that I have not crossed out. I know that i will not remember what I have to make amends to "john" for 20 years from now should the only opportunity arise at that time. I need my fourth step available to remind me what it is I'm making amends for. In practicallity my 8th step is nothing more than my harms done coulumn of my 4th step as determined between me, my sponsor, and God in an illuminating 5th step. In regards to the 9th step I have found and been taught that it is insufficient, in regards to humility, to just say "I'm sorry". This akin to 'crying wolf'. I have been saying sorry all my life. I must now explain the exact nature of my wrong to the person or place in which I harmed (i.e. John I stole money from you because I was greedy, lazy, and prideful. I acted selfishly, dishonestly, and inconsiderately. I was in fear of not getting something I wanted. I apologize, and would like to no how I can make the wrong, right?). By me repeating the defect, action and offering restitution by the victims standard that I find a greater humility with each amends. I cannoy be concerned with the persons reaction to my amends. If the reaction is favorable then great. That is icing on the cake. If the reaction is unfavorable then I get a great reminder of the type of hurtful person I truly was, and cane be grateful that I have principals to live by today so that I don't have to return to living that way again so long as I try to stay spiritually fit first. I also find that reaction, "unfavorable", to be humbling also. Before I get going another reason I've found to save my 4th step is because sometimes there is a chronic or recurring character defect or self-willed action that keeps appearing on my 10th step inventory. So what I have discovered is the problem is recurring because I never dealt with the root problem when it was first revealed in the 4th an 5th step process. Inevitably that same root still on my original 8th step list and not crossed out to signify that I made the amends. Let's not minimize our amends responsibilities by limiting it to harms done while drinking. That is for me false-ego and self-deception. I'm sure that I am not the only one when I admit that I was well below 'saintliness' before, during, and after drinking. Thank you for letting me share. God bless all those in A.A. and on their 8th and 9th step. Remember the "Big Book" warns us that we nay not get over drinking if we do not do these steps. When in doubt read the instructions, they're "in the 'Book'". Love David


Member: Geri W
Location: Va
Date: 04 Jul 1999
Time: 18:33:01

Comments

Geri, a very grateful alcoholic here. Hi folks.

I am one of the fortunate ones who found a great sponsor early in the Program. Taking me through the steps, she taught me lots about life. One of the "forever" things is that I have to "live" many of my amends. Not only did I have to recognize the wrongs I had done, find a way to apologize and make restitution, but had to not do it again. I could not continue to hurt others. At first, that was very difficult for me. No more criticism, spiteful conversations, etc. No more gossip sessions (they are ALL character assi onanations). No more being lazy at work and therefore "stealing" time from my employer - and many more character defects that I had to be willing to give up to live the amends that I had just made. Still not nearly good enough, but after quite a few 24's, I have a good handle on it. Makes the daily step 10 bearable.

Amends to my children were and are still the most difficult - I can never give them their childhood back. But I am the best mother I know how to be today. They have forgiven me and love me today. Thanks for God's grace.


Member: Lorri D
Location:
Date: 04 Jul 1999
Time: 19:20:30

Comments

Hi Folks Very simple, but yet we don't(alkies)like to face our past, we run and hide and make all excuses for not wanting to face reality. Very simple yet very hard to do.I'm gratefull that I have a sponser who teaches me that we just don't go running all over the country making amends to people we have harmed. Most of my friends and family had forgiven me a long time ago,I was just lost in space.There is always a time and place when our HP knows that this is something we can handle and with that making amends will not be so scary. I take each day as a step for finding my serenity,so I'll turn it over to my HP and his will be done.


Member: john h
Location: abbotsford
Date: 04 Jul 1999
Time: 21:36:34

Comments

one day at a time, living my life with the help of sponsors and using the suggestions are a big part of my " making amends ". The longer that i am around this program and the more trial and errors that i experience help me in knowing when to make amends and when not too. Easy doe's it


Member: J.R.T.
Location: Prescott, AZ
Date: 04 Jul 1999
Time: 22:14:32

Comments

I discovered that the very best way that I have made amends is just by staying sober and trying to follow the principals of the program in my everyday life. I could apologize for past alcoholic behavior until I am blue in the face, but the proof is in deeds not in words. By staying sober, by trying to always be honest, by searching for a higher power to guide me, by letting go of fear, anxiety, anger and expectations, by trying to accept others as they are, only by these things have I been able to clean up the wreckage of the past. To me, "amend" does not mean just saying I am sorry. "Amend" means "change my behavior." It means try my best to become a person of good character, a person who others can trust. I have found that my family and friends have appreciated my change in behavior and my personal growth, far more than the apologies I made when I first worked the steps. The verbal or written amend is important, but, in my opinion, the real amend is much deeper, and it is life-long. And, in my growth, my search for a higher power, and in the great self-acceptance that has come with it, I have made an awesome amend to myself. Happy Independence Day. A time to celebrate life, liberty, and our search for hapiness in this beautiful land.


Member: Joe A.
Location: Portland, Oregon
Date: 04 Jul 1999
Time: 23:44:48

Comments

My name is Joe, and I am a grateful recovering alcoholic.

I would like to agree with JRT of Prescott, AZ and to add some thought of my own.

To the average alcoholic, the words "I'm sorry" are about as automatic and meaningless as a burp after chug-a-lugging a bottle of beer. If that's the best you can do, why waste your time and that of the other person, too. However, if, through using the the Program of AA, you have changed enough that you can say, "I'm sorry, I wish those things hadn't happened, AND WITH GOD'S HELP, THEY WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN," you are making the only truly effective amends that can be made!

Of all the people who were hurt by my disease, the one person hurt the most was ME, and the one to whom I owe the most amends is me. Every time that I live another day without sabotaging my recover by drinking or using, I am making very effective amends to myself. (I have now done that more than 10,300 consecutive times.)

I could go on for about 10,300 more words about this step and the value it has been in my life, but I have used up my ration of space here for this week.

Keep on making amends to yourselves, please.

Lots of AA-type love to all from Joe A. of Portland, Oregon.


Member: Mike A
Location: Elcajon, Ca.
Date: 05 Jul 1999
Time: 02:02:08

Comments

My name is Mike and I'm a very grateful alcoholic.Today I'm celebrating my independence day. The more I depend on my higher power, the more independent I am. I agree with JRT & Joe, I was told in the begining to put my name at the top of my list.I'm my worst critic.I believe heaven and hell is right here on earth, I've been to hell now it's time to experience a little bit of heaven. It's time we all learn how to be good to ourselves. Thank God for the 8th & 9th steps.I seperated with my wife when our children were three and four years old.Buy the grace of God got locked up shortly after which helped me hit bottom sooner than latter.I made my amends within a couple years which made decent comunication possible.My children are 20 and 21 now, their mother past away unexpectedly on valentines Day this year.I felt so sorry for my kids but at least I didn't burn with the guilt that was removed over the years from cleaning my side of the street and staying clean to the best of my ability by the grace of God. Happy Independence Day! One Day AT A Time Mike A.


Member: DOZ121
Location: aol.com
Date: 05 Jul 1999
Time: 07:55:10

Comments

Happy Independence Day, I am Michele and I am an alcoholic. It is a great joy and blessing to be free from the bondage of alcholism today. I am in the process of making amends by mending my ways. Not picking up dinks, drugs, cigs, men or drugs. Not reaching back into my bag of tricks for a soltuion that never worked in the first place. The promise do materialize IF we work for them. Not always easy to go forward especially when you recognize the behavior and root causes that harm other people. I can only acknowledege them, bring them to God in prayer, be honest with my sponsor and open to the direction of sober and spiritual guidance and then the most difficult part for me is WAITING for Jesus to remove them. In all of that, when I go forward to make the list and be ready, willing and fearrless about taking action to right wrongs and changes behavior I found out that sometimes people don't change, situaations stay the same but I get better one day at a time. Need help when it hurts real bad and I need to stay connected when I am doing real well in my recovery. I don't want to forget lest I be destined to repeat. For me, it all starts from step 1 and moving forward. I am taking my children to an action water park and in two week my daughter will be 13 and two weekes from there my son will be 16. I have a relationship, a good one that I am still working on with them. They live with their dad but are with me for the summer. I am overwhelming at the opportunity that I have been given to give my daughter a surprise 13th Birthday Pool Party and I am planning a dinner to celebrate and honor my soon to be 16 year son. The miracle of the program of AA has allowed me to remain sober for almost 8 years. The last time I gave my children a birthday party, they were 3 and 6. God is so awesome and wonderful. I am crying becuase of this precious gift of staying sober. Thank you all for sharing yourselves with me on cyber space. The program works as it is written - DO IT. For I can share about the consequences of self will run riot - but that is another day. I am resting in the joy of the Lord. Be blessed all and sober today.


Member: ray p.
Location: australia.
Date: 05 Jul 1999
Time: 07:59:41

Comments

in making amends to those i hurt,[mostly those near and dear to me]i then learnt to live with me, i then moved on. god bless.


Member: TJ
Location: ST. AUGUSTINE
Date: 05 Jul 1999
Time: 09:13:20

Comments

THANK YOU J.R.T I REALLY NEEDED TO READ THAT THIS MORNING. I NEED TO PRACTICE BEING A MORE RESPONSABLE INDUVIDUAL. I CAN TALK ABOUT IT TILL THE COWS COME HOME BUT YOU ARE SO RIGHT IT'S THE ACTION AND THE WAY I TREAT OTHERS TODAY THAT REALLY SAYS IT ALL. GOD BLESS YOU!!!

THANKS FOR LETTING ME SHARE!


Member: Glen H.
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Date: 05 Jul 1999
Time: 09:21:18

Comments

Well let me tell you,I have been making amends for 6 years of my sobriety. Sometimes they went well, and other times the only thing I did was clean my side of the street, however, thats OK because I make my amends for me, and me only. Sounds rude but the program teaches us that we are powerless of what others think and fell. I believe that as long as were sincere about our actions and examine our motives, and not hurt or harm anyone in the process, our part is done.Let me tell you about the amends I have to make since I have got sober. Early in my recovery I joined an orginazation call .A.R.M. which is the Association of Recovering Motorcyclists. I was a four year member of this orginazation, WHAT A MISTAKE this was. People were not using, but I learned they were not sober (Big difference between the two). It's like sobering up a drunken horse theif, what do you get? You still have a horse theif. In other words, the old behaviors remained the same. Routinly I was told how to think and how to feel. This organization claims to "Represent Recovery". At times I was told to use intimidation on others including threats of violence toward others. Rcovery is about using the 12 steps to live a quality of life with out the use of drugs and alcohol and living life without intentionally harming others. I have been away from ARM for about 6 months now, and routinly members harrass me by driving by my home and intimidating me and my family. My family and I are long time members of the Rockford Alano Club, and we stopped attending due to the threats of intimidation toward us. I love to ride my motorcycle, however, I know now that Arm does not represent recovery due to their behaviors. I do not know if any of you are familiar with ARM, but I highly recommend that you stay away from any of their " open public functions ". They are not what they appear to be, most of them carry guns, and to me if Im living a recovering lifestyle, why does a person need to pack a gun, besides that is illegal to carry a concealled weapon. Recovery to me is about change, and enhancing my lifestyle. If there is anyone out here that I may have verbally or mentally abused in the name of ARM please accept my sincere apologies, and I mean this from my heart. Please think real hard if your deciding to join up with these people, PLEASE THINK HARD!!! They are not what they appear to be. Also spread the word to others because they have chapters all over the USA, Canada, and now SWEDEN. If you have any ouestions or concerns feel free to contact me at Flushme1 @ aol.com Thank you for your time,

Glen H. Rockford, Illinois


Member: Kyle K.
Location: GA
Date: 05 Jul 1999
Time: 11:14:35

Comments

Kyle here, grateful recovering alky...

Just a thought on amends: while the "fake it till you make it" slogan hangs seemingly forever in the fronts of our minds while we begin the journey of recovery, I strongly believe and recommend that it should never apply to making amends.

Likely, the people we have hurt can see through the shroud that is our newly self-professed recovery and see the insincerity, or at least the uncertainty as I'm sure all of our intentions are sincere. There is no timeline for recovery. This ain't scouts nor is it grade-school. We recover at our own pace and if this means that we do not truly find ourselves at these steps until two, five, ten or more years in the program, so be it. Not one of us has the right to compare or judge us for it.

So, then, how DO we make amends? It seems to me fairly obvious: we become humble enough to realize and UNDERSTAND how the other person must have felt or is feeling and recognize the fault as our own. We must also try hard to determine whether an apology will help or harm the other person. It is a fact that the world does NOT revolve around US and while WE may feel a weight lifted, wounds healed, an apology may serve only to reopen old wounds, long since forgotten, for the other person. The last thing we want to do is re-injure the one to whom we are apologizing.

So, in short, we need to prepare ourselves for making amends through sympathy, empathy and humility. These things are ours only "if we are painstaking about this phase of our development," whether within or outside of our "meeting halls." Thank you all for listening.

-Kyle K.


Member: John L
Location: Scotland (today)
Date: 05 Jul 1999
Time: 12:58:31

Comments

You said it all JRT AZ - simple but true!! - for me anyway.

With you in the Fellowship of the Spirit and all other real alcoholics out there.

Albuquerque John


Member: denise h
Location: sudbury ontario canada
Date: 05 Jul 1999
Time: 14:34:52

Comments

hi there! denise h alcoholic. wow! I've never been to staying cyber. thanks for being here. as far as amends go, action is the key word for me. since i've sobered up i've made amends in all kinds of ways. with lovers i've stayed away when the normal thing to do would have been to pursue them whether they liked it or not. with friends i've been able to accept them a little more for who they are becuase as a result of getting to know my own weaknesses and correct them i can forgive others. then there is my family. for years i stayed away. i avoided holiday visits, birthdays, the works. after almost seven years of sobriety i have finally returned to my homeland and to the people who have loved me even when i couldn't love myself. ACTION that's what it's all about for me. and by God it's good to be home! thanks AA.


Member: Avril G
Location: Driffield UK
Date: 05 Jul 1999
Time: 15:26:58

Comments

Hi, Avril here, alcoholic

The clue to steps 8/9 for me were when in the early days of sobriety, I apologised, yet again to my then 12yr old daughter, following yet another round of in-fighting, and I will never forget the look on her face when she said, "Mother, don't even bother to apologise, 'cos it doesn't mean a thing, as I know you will do exactly the same again another day, so just forget the sorries!" I felt as though I had been punched in the guts!! Of course, she was absolutely right, For years, the word 'sorry' tripped off my tongue, but still the same old behaviour was repeated, and my early days in AA were no different. Thank God, that child will be 21yrs old in 2 weeks time, is getting married in August, and is my closest friend. We can talk to each other about anything and everything, and that is one of the miracles of AA.

I continue to make amends, simply by not drinking on a daily basis, and if I need to make amends today, I first have to check out my behaviour, and determine which one of my character defects caused the problem, and attempt to work at it, in order that the same behaviour will not be repeated, otherwise, the amend-making is just as phoney as it ever was when I was pissed.

Thank God, that, thanks to the programme, I do not have many amends to make these days, for which I am grateful, since, for this ex-drunk, sorry really IS the hardest word. I much prefer to live the programme well enough not to need to make too many amends. I don't always succeed, but slowly but surely, I AM getting better.

Thanks for being here for me today.

Goodie@tesco.net


Member: Texas girl
Location: Texas
Date: 05 Jul 1999
Time: 19:18:00

Comments

Hi, Texas girl here, alcoholic. This topic is exactly what I need today. For weeks I have been avoiding writing an "amend" letter I need to write. So I'm going to shut up, log off and get it written. Thanks, all of you (I love this program)!


Member: Connie P.
Location: Kansas City
Date: 05 Jul 1999
Time: 21:04:10

Comments

Thanks to all for your posts. Connie, recovering alcoholic here. Great concept from Joe if I understand it right. Remaining sober and working the program is like the gift we give ourselves or the action we take to reinforce our word amends, huh? I really never thought about how much I hurt myself with my disease, but wow, it's clear tonight. Never thought about amends to myself, but again, it makes some sense tonight and gives me a new way to look at my sobriety as an amend to self, as well as others. Thanks again.


Member: Dave H.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Date: 05 Jul 1999
Time: 21:37:18

Comments

Howdy, Happy 4th on the 5th. It's just nice to have this outlet to counter the "committee" between the ears. I think that in regard to the amends step--an "easy does it" approach is the way to go. I can only speak for myself, but drama was/is an inherent part of my disease and it would love to interfer with the steps. You've heard from others but: "I'm grateful to be sober." And, thanks for mentioning the amends to ourselves.


Member: S.
Location: no. virginia
Date: 05 Jul 1999
Time: 21:53:01

Comments

Fred s. from virginia and I agree with the earlier comments about, The Man On The Bed", Bill D. Amends to others for wrongs that I've done to them is a major mile along my highway towards recovery. Without these amends I'll fall flat on my face. In chapter four it says,". If you are ready to...". There was a time when I did this long before I was ready and later found myself swimming in the same mess. o a person who's father had pulled a shotgun on me. I was sure that it was a wrong decision since the insident had happened over thirty-years ago. The fellow leughed and told me that his oldman had threatened to shot him a few times because of his own drinking. We shook hands and he ask me if I needed anything and I declined the offer. ldn't even afford a pack of cigarettes. My first amends were of icourse to


Member: Fred S.
Location: Virginia
Date: 05 Jul 1999
Time: 22:00:27

Comments

my first amends were of course to my higher power for the damage that I done to one of his creations,(my body and soul) and the damage that I did to many of his other creations. I continue to make amends to him at the start of each day. Thanks for being here to all of you and for 12 stepping me this evening. Fred S.


Member: Don F
Location: NH
Date: 05 Jul 1999
Time: 23:27:27

Comments

I worked the steps through in three AWOL series as a recovering alcoholic, but I don't think my 9th step was thorough enough, and very certainly not courageous enough. Other than my wife, I either wrote them and mailed them to last-known-address, with no return address, or wrote them and burned them. Now I'm doing it in an associated fellowship, and I want to do the 9th by telephone where possible. Some of these (women) I haven't spoken to for 30 years, but I wronged them due to my drinking and lusting. And I am concerned about "...except where to do so would harm them or others".

Experiences?


Member: jamesb
Location: sydney
Date: 06 Jul 1999
Time: 00:45:28

Comments

not much to say, just like to comment that making amends is very important. you can learn from your mistakes but the difficult thing is remembering what we learn. that's why i like coming to this group. Obviously i dont come often enough thanx


Member: Jean-Claude T.
Location: Belgium
Date: 06 Jul 1999
Time: 08:21:01

Comments

My name is JC and I’m an alcoholic. I totally agree with JRT, how could I just apologize to my wife by simply sayin’ “sorry for havin’ ruined your life and our marriage for 11 years” and then just go on and sleep on it. I had to live my program and change my old ways, it was an amend out of action rather than out of words. I had to make some amends though to some people I had hurt during my drinkin’ period, I took some time before doing them in order to first be well in my head. They weren’t rejected, ‘cos people saw it wasn’t the same person they had in front of them. Now it’s up to my day to day 10th Step to give me some peace of mind. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: GABRIELLE P.
Location: MANSFIELD, TEXAS
Date: 06 Jul 1999
Time: 08:41:58

Comments

HI ! I LOVE THE TOPIC AMENDS, IT REMINDS TO FORGIVE MYSELF FIRST FOR BEING AN ALCOHOLIC,SECOND FOR BEING HUMAN. I BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE SOME AMENDS THAT WE MUST MAKE TO OUT HIGHER POWER FOR OTHERS RATHER THAN TO RISK BEING MISUNDERSTOOD ABOUT OUR INTENTIONS FOR MAKING AMENDS. THE BIG BOOK TELLS ME THAT RESENTMENTS ARE THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE FOR ME TO NEED TO MAKE AMENDS. THAT IS ANYTIME I FIND ANY PERSON, PLACE OR THING IN MY LIFE UNACCEPTABLE TO ME. THE ANSWER FOR WHAT DAMAGE RESENTMENTS CAUSE IN CHAPTER 5 WHERE IT TELLS US THAT RESENTMENTS MAY BE THE DUBIOUS LUXURY FOR NORMAL MEN BUT DEATH TO AN ALCOHOLIC. I TRY TO LIVE BY THAT MEANING THAT I TRY TO KEEP MYSELF FROM FEELING THAT WAY. I HAVE MAY AMENDS TO THOSE WHERE DAMAGE WAS DONE AND REGRETTED IT. I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE I NEED TO SOMETIMES I ASK MY HIGHER POWER TO FORGIVE ME FOR THINGS I'VE SAID OR DONE BECAUSE DIRECT AMENDS WOULD NOT HAVE SERVED A PURPOSE OTHER THAN TO CAUSE PAIN AND THE BIG BOOK TELLS ME TO LEAVE THOSE AMENDS ALONE. IT DOES NOT TELL ME TO NOT ASK MY HIGHER POWER TO HELP ME WITH WORKING THE STEPS ON A DAILY BASIS TO OVERCOME MY SHORT COMINGS. I WILL HAVE TO WORK THE STEPS OVER AND OVER THEY ARE NOT SOMETHING THAT IS DONE ON OR TWICE, GETTING DRUNK EVERYDAY TOOK A GREAT DEAL OF ENERGY I TRY TO PUT THAT SAME ENERGY INTO STAYING SOBER AND SO FAR THAT HAS WORKED FOR ME ONE DAY AT A TIME. THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME SHARE. IN SOBRIETY, IN A.A., IN LIFE!!!


Member: TERESA S.
Location:
Date: 06 Jul 1999
Time: 11:28:10

Comments


Member: TERESA S.
Location: MEMPHIS
Date: 06 Jul 1999
Time: 11:29:14

Comments


Member: TERESA S.
Location:
Date: 06 Jul 1999
Time: 11:33:36

Comments

I LOVE THIS PROGRAM AND MY GOD. EIGHT MONTHS AGO I COULD HAVE DIED AND WOULD NOT HAVE GIVEN A CRAP. TODAY I AM IN LOVE WITH LIFE AND MOST OF ALL, GOD. I AM SO THANKFUL TO THIS PROGRAM. LIFE IS COOL. IT IS BETTER THAN I COULD HAVE EVER IMANGINED JUST A SHORT TIME AGO.


Member: J-86
Location: Alaska
Date: 06 Jul 1999
Time: 11:56:23

Comments

Getting sober & staying that way is an inside job. My sponsor said I needed to trust God & clean house. Making amends was a big part of cleaning house. I had to right the wrongs that bothered me in my soul. If I forgave myself,thats what counted. The ones I could'nt make, because it would hurt another too bad,I told to someone I could trust. I asked for Gods forgiveness. Getting out all that garbage keeps me sober today. Because of the program I'm aware of my character defects & have been given the tools to redirect my thinking. I'm learning to keep my mouth shut so I don't need to make so many amends on a daily basis.


Member: LOUIS
Location: GATINEAU,QUEBEC.CANADA
Date: 06 Jul 1999
Time: 12:24:55

Comments

louis,alkie.somtimes,the hardest part in learning somthing new,IS UNLEARNING THE OLD WAY OF DOING IT.THANKS .


Member: Kent K.
Location: Willits,Ca
Date: 06 Jul 1999
Time: 17:05:52

Comments

Hi,Kent K.,gratefull to be getting well`er in the fellowship of A.A. I have come to understand that amends making is an action step. I am learning a new way of living with all others I share this existence with through the sharing of E,S,and H with other recovering alcoholics. It is through this process that remorse for past wrongs has been eliminated. Where appropriate I have needed to do this directly to the party affected. Allways I have needed to forgive myself, I am, after all, very human. Day by day I ask my H.P. to help me live in such a way that I will not create tomorrows remorse. Through this process I am given a fantastic life quality. This is my first cyber-meeting, i've been online two wks., and am thrilled to meet "fellows in the spirit".


Member: rita b.
Location: louisville,ky
Date: 06 Jul 1999
Time: 17:10:05

Comments


Member: rita b.
Location: louisville,ky
Date: 06 Jul 1999
Time: 17:16:48

Comments

hello, i'm rita a non typer and a non drinker as of a year ago, thanks to a.a. i'm chairing my first meeting next wednesday feel rather uncomfortable getting in front of people never been much of a leader but thanks to a.a. i now know God is in charge not me so it will be all right goof ups and all. would like to be able to keep in touch moe often with like thinking folks. I REALLY appreciate the new found fellowship A.A. provides for sharing a spiritual strength and hope for a better life. Thanks Rita Ann B.


Member: Kevin K.
Location: Rochester, Wa.
Date: 06 Jul 1999
Time: 19:42:45

Comments

Hello all fellow recovering Alcy here I have God and People like you all here to thanks for my recovery so far so good! I will have 1yr on Aug 16th give or take a few days. I found the hardest ammends to make are the ones with my childrens mother, she doesnt seem to think I am good enough to have my child visitation rights! If anyone has any input on this specific subject please feel free to say! I feel good today even doing it the sober way!! Thank You all and Godbless.


Member: Lisa B.
Location: Georgia
Date: 06 Jul 1999
Time: 20:25:46

Comments

I'd like to make amends. I've got to start somewhere. Can you do this website without actually going to meetings? Help me out please. What do I need to do?


Member: Anthon F
Location: U.S. IN.
Date: 06 Jul 1999
Time: 23:52:47

Comments

i whould not sujest it but who am i relly I only have 2 years and i had to work with others as well as meeting god half way not making god do the work for me but me willing to go to any linkes to get sober.. but who am I rely to pas a little exsperyans strancth and hope. to the one who steal sufers


Member: Sarah K.
Location: Minnesota
Date: 06 Jul 1999
Time: 23:57:53

Comments

Lisa, this is a nice internet site, however going to meetings in your town is the best way to maintain sobriety. Nobody will disagree about the importance of face to face meetings.

Take Care


Member: Cherie' G.
Location: Michigan
Date: 07 Jul 1999
Time: 01:49:07

Comments

This is my third visit to online AA meetings. What a wonder this technology has brought to the world! I know there is a lot of trash to be found on the internet if you look for it but it is so comforting to find that there are still places that are not in it for profit or anything else. We are good people who are trying so hard to make up for the horrible things we have done to others while under control of the alcohol thinking. We are making amends and finding the vast rewards that come from that. If someone cannot accept or forgive at least go in peace knowing that you tried and your higher power knows that you took that step. We help and give one another strength in disclosing our experiences. Sobriety is such a gift and we give it to ourselves and through that the people that we love receive part of that gift also. I am so grateful to all of you that take the time to come online and share. May you all find the strength to keep it up and if you falter, as I have several times, keep coming back.

I am a grateful alcoholic who is gaining back the love and respect of my children, my family and friends, and even my ex-husband (we will never be back together but knowing he can see me in a different light than that of someone who is a disappointing drunk makes my life much easier).

Thank you all so much, I LOVE EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU WHO IS OUT THERE TRYING TO FIND A BETTER WAY OF LIFE!!!


Member: TAMMY S
Location: NORTHERN CALIFORNIA
Date: 07 Jul 1999
Time: 03:13:28

Comments

Hi! Tammy, recovering alcolholic. Thank you for the topic. I think JRT said it best. Actions speak louder than words. My (then 8) daughter left me to go live with her father. That was my wake up call, 10/22/95. My husband left the following day. I had nothing to lose..so I went into rehab (then Clev. area OH) got some help, started going to meetings, doing the steps and now almost 4 years later, I have a 4 month old little girl. My husband and daughter came back. My husband after my rehab and my daughter 2 years later. My amends take place daily..BY NOT DRINKING..BEING AWARE OF MY BEHAVIOR.. I am so grateful for this program. It has given me a foundation by which to LIVE!!! THANK YOU & GOD BLESS.


Member: Scott S.
Location: Portland, OR
Date: 07 Jul 1999
Time: 04:55:06

Comments

When I first came into the program I was ready to make amends for every error I had ever made. This willingness was easy when my active alcoholism had broken down my ego, but now after 3-years of sobriety, it is more difficult to fullfill the action part of the 9th step. The promises in the Big Book come half way through the ninth step. I constantly pray for the willingness to do the 9th, but it usually is driven by extensive pain. Going without alcohol is one thing, but changing everything in ones life and having SOBRIETY that is another. I crave the serenity and peace that filled my body after the first time I completed the ninth step; it is the regaining of the faith, thus overcoming the overwhelming fear to clean up 3-years of action in sobriety that has recently escaped me. Thank you for the topic!


Member: ramana g.
Location: baltimore
Date: 07 Jul 1999
Time: 08:12:13

Comments

Hi. Im Ramana G., Baltimore.

Making amends is a way to recover some of the self esteem thats lost in the bottomless well of alcoholism. In the same vein, you can never be done with making amends, and therefore beware of guilt feelings about 'not making enough amends'. Like a scout, one good deed for a day.


Member: JOHN   W.
Location: DERIDDER,  LA.
Date: 07 Jul 1999
Time: 13:51:31

Comments


Member: JOHN   W.
Location: DERIDDER,  LA.
Date: 07 Jul 1999
Time: 14:02:44

Comments

HELLO I AM JOHN A ALKIE, I HAVEN'T HAD A DRINK SINCE 24-OCT-94 BY THE GRACE OF GOD, MEETINGS, AND OTHER MEMBERS. I'M A TORNADO THAT FLEW THUR FOUR WIFES AND FOUR CHILDERN BLAMING MY EX'S FOR ALL MY TROUBLES. IT WAS A SHOCK TO SOBER UP AND RELIZE THAT I WAS THE PROBLEM. THEN I FELT THE JOB OF MAKING AMENDS WAS TO GREAT AND WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE. WRONG! JUST TURN IT OVER TO GOD. BLESS YOU, JW


Member: Maggie Mae
Location: Az
Date: 07 Jul 1999
Time: 15:06:59

Comments

To Lisa B Georgia. I am a newcomer to AA. 16 meetings in 16 days face to face. This web site gave me the courage to face the fact that I am an alcoholic. But I got myself to a meeting in town and have been going every day. The things you hear and the love and acceptance you recieve can not be gotten on the net. The loneliness of the alcoholic is just too much to go through sobriety and the steps alone. Girlfriend, get you butt to a meeting!


Member: Jon
Location: NorCal
Date: 07 Jul 1999
Time: 19:06:52

Comments

Jon, alcoholic. 2 brief comments on amends: The word 'sorry' didn't come up very often in my amends. What I did was acknowledge my past behavior. I didn't even say much about trying to do better in the future. Most of these folks had heard that before. There are people like my dad where the blame and counterblame went on for my whole life. All I told him was that I was sorry that we had never been friends and that Iknew he was not a bad person. He seemed genuinely grateful to hear that. The other comment is about who I made amends to.I felt that I owed an amends to everyone I'd ever worked for and everyone I'd ever worked with. There was no possibility of contacting all of those people. At one time I worked in a car factory where I 'worked with' 30,000 other people. That's $900 in postage alone. Then's there's the question of addresses... What I did was make an appointment with the General Manager of my current job. I apologized to him for everything I had done to him and everyone else I'd ever worked for. Except for specifics, I'd done the same at every job. Next, I went to the president of my local union, a man with whom I have had many differences over the years. I figured if my fellow workers could acknowledge him as their leader then he would also be a good representative of all the people I couldn't make amends to. I apologized for my sneakiness and backbiting and a lot more. I told him that I had been too busy running the world to do my job. I admitted that I had dumped my real responsibilities onto my fellow workers and that I was sorry for the extra work and aggravation that I had caused him. I haven't done anything to cause either of these men any trouble since then and I feel all right about these amends.


Member: jon j
Location: DC
Date: 07 Jul 1999
Time: 21:32:10

Comments

Im working slowly thru the wreckage. I have no self-confidence left. I have 13 months, Im still an alcoholic, still going to meetings,but the fear is great after seeing the financial mess im in. I owe too much to pay, trying to fight off creditors, but I have a place to sleep and friends in the program and I'll never, ever give up.I really needed to share with you because I know many of you are on the other side after cleaning up the mess and I need your support and prayers. I cant make amends unless they let me have terms to pay, but they wont make a deal so its pure hell for now. Its not something Id think of drinking over, so I just need to hang in there and go to meetings, pray, and stay clear.Thanks for letting me share.JJ.


Member: Larry M.
Location: Virginia Beach
Date: 07 Jul 1999
Time: 23:05:38

Comments

Larry, alcoholic

Thanks for a great meeting. There's been some wonderful stuff shared here this week.

Amends take many forms. Although I agree that part of making amends is changing one's behavior, I have always thought I had a responsibility to, as the Big Book says, "go out to our fellows and repair the damage done in the past". Some of it is rather easy, such as paying up old debts. In fact, I just contacted the last person on my list, an old friend who I hadn't spoken to in 18 years who I still owe back rent to. I found him through the internet! Cool, huh? Some of it is hard, such as making amends to family members. I also believe in the Big Books statement that, "there is a long period of reconstruction ahead". It takes a lot of time to rebuild trust and intimacy in relationships that have been shattered by decades of active alcoholism. Until behaving like a compassionate, selfless, decent human being becomes second nature to me, it helps me to remind myself that I owe amends to my family. Whenever I start to harbor resentments or act insensitively or selfishly, whenever I begin to lash out it anger at a perceived slight, I need to remind myself of the hell I've put these people through. To quote the BB one more time, "Their defects may be glaring, but the chances are that our own actions are partly responsible". Sometimes I find that there is damage I've done that I am not even aware of. For example, when I notice that as my children grow older they begin to develop some of the characteristics of adult children of alcoholics, I need to deal with that. It's part of the damage I've done and I need to do my best to repair it.

This may sound like endless guilt for past misdeeds, but it's not. To me, the Steps are designed to help me reestablish healthy relationships with my higher power, myself, and others. Amends mostly involves others - although it has helped me to regain my self-respect and ease my conscience. Through making amends I have vastly improved my relations with others. I have begun to melt the icy relationship with my mother, I have established a relationship with my younger brother that had been dead for years, and I have become a better parent. I went through a divorce last year after 21 years of marriage. She's still very sick and attempted to cause a lot of hostility. However, by keeping in mind that I owed her amends for the hell I put her through for the first 12 years of our marriage, I was able resist the urge to strike back at her. When she saw that I meant her no harm and was doing my best to make things work out, she calmed down and we were able to settle things amicably, saving ourselves and our children the pain of a vicious battle. And now, within the past week, I have an old friend back in my life, my best friend during my mid-late teens. Making amends has brought many people back into my life and drastically improved my relationships with those closest to me. Awesome!

A few more thoughts. Amends can be tricky. There's a potential for making matters even worse. That's why I think most amends should be made (1) after working the 8 previous Steps and (2) with the guidance of a sponsor. Also, there seem to be 2 schools of thought on making amends. One say amends are made just once, usually early in sobriety and then it's just a matter of working the "maintenance steps", 10-12. The other viewpoint is that making amends is a lifetime project. I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Some amends can be made quickly in one shot and others take a long time. But eventually as old wounds are healed, Step 10 (which is essentially Steps 5-9 as applied to the present) becomes the "amends" step. As someone pointed out, making amends is often scary, so now that I'm pretty far along in my 9th Step, making amends for harm I have caused in sobriety is easy because I know I don't want to carry that shit around any longer than I have to, so I take care of it immediately!

RITA B: Good luck with your first chairing commitment. It'll be great! You'll have the best seat in the house.

JON J: No one said you have to do it alone and no one said you have to put up with a whole lot of shit either. There are free counseling and debt assistance services available. There are also like a gazillion lawyers in DC - LOL. I mentioned my divorce above and what a swell guy I was during the whole affair. That didn't mean I didn't use a lawyer! I also got lots of support from AA, my sponsor, and a counselor. Hang in there buddy...ODAAT.

Thanks for letting me share.

Peace & Serenity


Member: Aase F
Location: Creston, California
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 01:25:28

Comments

Hi, my name is Aase and I am an alcoholic. This is my first time sharing and also my first time on "stayingcyber". I am so glad to have found you all, I have enjoyed reading your shares and hope to be able to contribute in a small way to a more peaceful and serene and sober life. "I am one of the lucky ones", I thought to myself when I got sober, "I only hurt myself and I didn't drink for long enough to do any damage to anyone else in the family! Well maybe my husband, but I still took care of business and put off the drinking until the chores were done"! I am so glad that I stayed sober long enough to realize the damage and hurt I had put everyone in the house through - my kids were 18 and 19 when I got sober - where did I come off thinking that I had not hurt them? We alcoholics are so self-centered - thank God for the Steps and the teaching and the sharing and the Fellowship. I have made my amends to my family and I have a relationship with my sons today that includes trust and respect,humility and pride in each other. My husband and I have been married for 25 years, I have made amends to him and have lived a sober life now for more than half of our marriage - feels so good to say that and to live it. Thanks for being here and listening - I really needed a meeting tonight.


Member: john m
Location: texas
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 01:28:25

Comments

i have been struggling with alcohol to some degree or another for the past several years, staying sober for days, weeks, or even months at a time. This past month I have been charged with DWI, and have made it my mission to stay sober, and have begun to attend AA meetings--hope it helps. I am very encouraged so far.


Member: Patti H
Location: Az.
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 03:17:58

Comments

Hi Everyone I'm Patti and an alcoholic. I have to say something about making amends. I have come to realize that although we try very hard to make amends as we are healing, sometimes (painfully) all is not forgiven and some ammends can not be made. I found it very difficult to forgive myself where ammends could not be made.I'm grateful for those that I could and still can make and because I'm not perfect,I've resolved to carry the ones that I can't around in what I call my little 'sad-bag' in my heart to be worked on when all other feasable ammends are complete. Thanks for letting me share.,


Member: Gracie
Location: Tx
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 03:38:56

Comments

Cyber AA, wouldn't Bill W. be amazed!!! And pleased perhaps. I'm Gracie and I am an alcoholic from Texas. It is good to be sober because it sure beats the alternative! The amends I've made in this program have set me free. Those ninth step promises are coming true and life is pretty darn good. Because of the ninth step, I was able to enjoy a good relationship with my mother for six months before she died. She passed on 13 yrs. ago on July 1st. This year I was able to celebrate her freedom instead of crying over her death (and her life). Thanks to AA and all the sober alcoholics all over the world I know I don't ever have to be alone again. I also don't ever have to drink again, one day at a time. If someone out there needs to make amends I suggest that first you talk it over with your sponsor and if the two of you decide it is time then don't delay. The rewards are tremendous!


Member: Sue M
Location: Las Vegas
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 04:28:39

Comments

My name is Sue and I am an alcoholic. I make amends so I don't have to obsess about crap spinning around in my head.

I screwed up. The sooner I take care if it - the quicker I can try to let it go.

Doing amends helps keep me honest. When I'm being honest - I don't have amends to make. I am allowed to live the life I wanted to live for so many years.


Member: Kenn C.
Location: New Mexico
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 07:39:23

Comments

Hello, sorry if I go off topic a bit but I am looking for some help. My name is Kenn C. and I am a recovering alcoholic in New Mexico. I've been sober (this time) for 3and1/2 years and haven't been doing much 12step work. Recently, I have begun working for a new boss whom I suspect is an alcoholic- it takes one to know one- and almost every day that I see her she reminds me of me when I was still active. My problem is, I'm really feeling like I want to help her, more for my own sake than hers really, but I'm not sure if I should intervene or how to intervene. It is just bothering me that if when I leave this job in August and I haven't at least said something she may really suffer. I care about this person and I just have this nagging feeling that I should try to share my experience, strength and hope.

(As far as procedure here at the Coffee pot, can anyone who responds to this please put Attn:Kenn C. or something like that on your post so it is easier for me to locate?) Thanks for letting me contribute.


Member: GABRIELLE P.
Location: MANSFIELD, TEXAS
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 08:16:10

Comments

HI, I'M GABRIELLE A GRATEFUL RECOVERING ALCOHOLIC, TO KEN C. I TRIED ONE TIME TO "FIX" ANOTHER PERSON I WAS SURE WAS AN ALCOHOLIC. I ALMOST DRANK OVER IT. I FOUND THAT I CAN'T KEEP ANYONE ELSE SOBER ALL I CAN DO IS SHARE MY HOPE, STRENGTH AND EXPERIENCE. MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE TO SHARE YOUR OWN STORY AND RECOVERY AND LEAVE IT AT THAT. YOU CAN'T HELP SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T WANT TO BE, AND AS PAINFUL AS IT MAY BE FOR US TO WATCH SOMEONE WE LOVE OR CARE ABOUT GO DOWN THE SAME ROAD WE WENT DOWN, WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT ALONE. IF BY SHARING WITH HER YOUR OWN STORY YOU START THE PROCESS OF OPENING HER EYES THEN YOU COULD OFFER MORE ASSISTANCE BUT TO TRY AND POINT OUT THAT SOMEONE ELSE IS AN ALCOHOLIC STRAYS FROM WHAT I BELIEVE A.A. IS ALL ABOUT. GOOD LUCK AND KEEP COMING BACK! IN SOBRIETY, IN A.A. , IN LIFE!


Member: Gracie
Location: Tx
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 10:54:37

Comments

Hi, I'm Gracie, an alcoholic. To Ken C, Alcoholics Anonymous is a program of attraction rather than promotion. If I live my life in an "attractive" manner then I am carrying the message. Ask HP for direction in this matter and then wait for the answer. It will come! Just one other thought. There are many people who need the program but AA is for people who want it.


Member: KRISTEN P.
Location: POMONA, CA.
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 11:01:46

Comments

HELLO EVERYONE MY NAME IS KRISTEN AND I AM AN ALCOHOLIC. I AM SO GLAD I DECIDED TO JOIN THIS MORNING. I'VE BEEN ON MY 9TH STEP IT SEEMS LIKE FOREVER. I DID ONE TO TWO FAMILY MEMBERS AND IT WAS REAL EMOTIONAL FOR ME AND NOW I'M KIND OF LEARY TO DO ANY MORE. NOT THAT I'M NOT GOING TO DO THEM, BECAUSE I WILL; I JUST DON'T KNOW WHEN? I PRAY AND ASK GOD TO HELP ME, BUT THEN SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE I'M NOT GOING ANY FURTHER IN MY SOBRIETY? ***IS THAT WRONG?*** IS THERE A TIME SPAND AS TO HOW LONG YOU SHOULD STAY ON EACH STEP?

I JUST AM KIND OF GETTING FRUSTRATED WITH MYSELF BECAUSE I HEAR PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE FREEDOM YOU HAVE WHEN YOU WORK THROUGH THIS STEP AND I STILL SEEM NOT ABLE TO GO ON TO THE NEXT AMEND?

I HOPE SOMEONE OUT THERE CAN GIVE ME A LITTLE FEED-BACK. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING. HAVE A BLESSED DAY!!


Member: Larry M.
Location: Virginia Beach
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 12:20:38

Comments

Larry, still an alcoholic. Please pardon my double post.

KRISTEN P: Don't be too hard on yourself, you're doing great! Amends can be very difficult to make. It takes as long as it takes. Some people whip right through them, some take a lot of time. I have always heard that's it's dangerous for an alkie to get too well too soon. I have 9 1/2 years sober and I'm not done with amends yet. I spent 5 years outside of AA, not drinking but not recovering either. 4 years ago I went back to Step 1 and started working them over again. I started Steps 8/9 in earnest over a year ago. I have made some amends to everyone on my list, but in some cases, as I explained above, I don't feel I have done enough to "repair the damage done" so am not yet satified that I'm finished. As long as you're sincerely willing to make them (8th Step), the right time will come. I have made amends unexpectedly when the opportunity presented itself and the time all of a sudden seemed right. I work most of my program in fits and starts. I do a lot of work, then relax for awhile, then do a lot of work, relax. I'm not suggesting that the way I've worked my program is a model for others, it's more a matter of: "Look at what a screwed up job this guy did, but he still managed to stay sober and get through the steps somehow!" - LOL. The only suggestion I'd make is to use a sponsor for your 9th Step. BTW, the Big Book says the Promises (peace, serenity, freedom) will begin to come true "before we are halfway through with this phase of our development". Sounds like you're just about there.

Peace & Serenity


Member: Joanna
Location: Portland, OR
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 15:19:42

Comments

I am Joanna and I am a member of A.A. I have found that steps 8 and 9 take all the grace and strength that I can muster with God's help. I do not believe just saying sorry is enough. My behavior is what needs to change not just my talk. It is easy for me to say sorry, yet continue hiding my motives and my shame. Where as if I fully concive of my actions and make my amends fully then I trully become responsible for my actions and behaivor. I also believe once I make amends for a certin action I am aware that is wrong doing it again, even if the circumstances are different, it still is wrong. I can not look at situations and look to see what I can get away with. Once I make an amends for a certin behavior then I have no business repeating that behavior agian. I am trying to live my life by a spiritual guide, I must learn, grow and maintain my knowledge. I have never had it so good. I thank God, Bill W. and the vast fellowship of A.A. for my sobriety and my life. Take it easy.


Member: Tom A. 7/25/60
Location: Carlisle, AR
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 16:02:19

Comments

Good Afternon!

My name is Tom A. a grateful sober alcoholic today by the grace of a Higher Power and the teaching of this fellowship known as Alcoholic's Anonymous.

Thank you Paul over there in the UK for this weeks discussion topic on making amends to those we have wronged while drinking.

As I see it the two steps that deal with amends are 8 & 9. The principles of making a list is mentioned and that's a good idea. I also see the principles of Honesty - Openmindedness - Willingness present and that triad of "First Things First - Live and Let Live - Easy Does It" present in this making amends deal. For me, it is ongoing and by staying sober one-day-at-a-time we have been able to make these amends. This program provides a way to do that sooner or later.

Special thanks to all who have shared this week. I've gotten some more tools for use in my time of temptation. Afterall, it is the First Drink that sets it off.

Enjoy Your Sobriety Today!

God Bless - Tom A, ate@gte.net


Member: Gracie
Location: Tx
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 16:10:42

Comments

This is Gracie again, still an alcohoic. Kristin, just staying sober and working the steps in your life is a living amend. Just by not being a pain in the butt and worrying my family I am making amends. Verbal amends are just the beginning but they are important because they open the door of communication. How I live my life is the best amend I can make to my family. Easy does it, but do it!!!


Member: Avril G
Location: Driffield
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 16:35:54

Comments

Avril, Alcoholic here,

SORRY - Double dipping, but with a few good reasons:-) THANKS to all for the awesome sharing on here so far this week. Also my e-mail addy has changed (see below) My eldest daughter Emma, who I shared about earlier called me today, to ask if she and her husband, Nikki, can spend their honeymoon here with me (I live near the coast, East of England) I AM MADE UP!!! They really want to spend their honeymoon with me!! This is the magic of sobriety!!

LISA B :-) Come here as often as you wish, and use the e-mail addresses too if you wish, BUT NOTHING beats face 2 face meetings, because we're all here because we are not all there (LOL) Phone your local AA office, the number will be in the book. We need newcomers at f2f meetings, and you will be made to feel very welcome.

RITA-Ann - Good luck with your first chair. Let us know how it goes.

KEN C :-) I once lost a very dear old schoolfriend by telling her I would like to take her to an AA meeting!! She had rang me up to say she had left her 2nd husband, was facing a drink/drive charge and as soon as I told her about me and AA, and offered to take her to a meeting, she politely refused the offer, and I never heard from her again.. Remember, attraction rather than promotion, though it would not do any harm to 'mention' that you are a recovering alcoholic, if you can manage to swing the conversation round that way, but the best way to alienate people with a drink problem, before THEY are ready to accept is, is to tell them "I think you got a problem" Hope that helps.

Thanks again, everyone, new addy below.

Goodie@anon25.freeserve.co.uk


Member: michelle   s
Location: canada
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 17:59:15

Comments

k, please help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! made it 12 days sober. the problem is when you are battling yourself you always loose. I dont know what to do, I feel like such a loser.I hate myself for being so weak. will aa help or do i need detox. in the mist of a 4 day bender and cant live with myself. I guess im asking for help. could the millions of you please help me???????? thanx


Member: Newcomer, Maggie Mae
Location: Az.
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 18:37:54

Comments

To Michelle, Canada. Girlfriend, get on that phone and find a meeting if you really want help. I am 18 days now and I feel good. AA took me into their midst and have been with me. Going to meetings every night. Many have done it without Detox but only a Dr. or maybe someone peronsally who has evperienced it can help you. I just started the daily meetings and had a rough first 10 days but feel pretty good now. In meeting you ;isten and wil hear youself. I read the literature. Listsen to waht they say. And don't take that first drink. It is working for me so far. Thanks to AA>


Member: Joe B
Location: Dover DE.
Date: 08 Jul 1999
Time: 21:19:04

Comments

Michelle, please call someone immediately or get to a meeting then decide with help of an aa whether detox is needed. I know exactly how you feel both from past experiences and at this moment. just got 2 days back in again, and feel like a piece of dung. take positive action it really is worth it, as bleak as things may seem. DON'T GIVE UP!


Member: BRENDA J
Location: RIVERSIDE,CA
Date: 09 Jul 1999
Time: 10:55:02

Comments

JAD3143@AOL.COM HI, MY NAME IS BRENDA J

WHEN FIRST COMING TO THE PROGRAM I COULD NOT STAY SOBER GET A FEW DAYS AND LOSE IT AGAIN MY FIRST TIME AROUND. THEN I WAS TOLD TO MAKE AMENDS THAT I HAD TO MUCH GULIT SO I DID AS SUGGESTED. STILL DIDN'T STAY SOBER I WANTED TO BE SOBER BUT DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO COULDN'T GET PAST 29 DAYS THEN SOME THING WONDERFUL HAPPEN A WONDERFUL LADY ASK ME A SIMPLE FEW QUESTONS. SHE ASKED ME IF I BELIEVED IN GOD? YES, SHE SAID DO YOU ALSO BELIEVE IN JESUS? YES SHE SAID DO YOU BELIEVVE JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS TO FORGIVE YOU OF ALL YOUR SINS? YES THEN SHE STATED IF GOD FORGAVE YOU WHY IN THE HECK CAN'T YOU FORGIVE YOURSELF!!!!!! FROM THAT POINT ON I STAYED SOBER FOR 18MO BUT YOU SEE I WAS NOT INVOLVED IN A/A MEETINGS I WAS IN A PROGRAM I WENT OUT FOR ABOUT A MONTH THEN CAME TO A/A AND GOT A SPONSER AND DID EVERYTHING I WAS TOLD( SUGGESTED TO ME) BY A SPONSER I GOT W/IN THREE DAYS BACK TO THE LIVING AND HAVE BEEN SOBER SINCE. THE PROGRAM, THE STEPS ULTILIZE ALL THAT YOU CAN.I AM NEW TO MY AREA AND AM GOING THRU ALOT OF ISSUES IF ANYONE CAN DIRECT ME TO A GOOD MEETING IN THE RIVERSIDE AREA I WOULD BE GRATEFUL I AM IN A BAD PLACE THANKS BRENDA J


Member: michelle  s
Location: canada
Date: 09 Jul 1999
Time: 11:45:12

Comments

to all who took the time to "talk" thanx. Im having a coffee instead of a drink. Going to a meeting tonight. any advice on how to tell my husband?? later


Member: Rosie
Location: Me.
Date: 09 Jul 1999
Time: 11:50:21

Comments

I am an alcoholic and my name is Rosie. I came into this program in 1982. To Ken C. There was a time in the begining that I did not protect my anonimity as well as I do now. I just wanted to share with the world how wonderful aa was and how much it had changed my life. Not eveyone accepted my news as well as I would have liked. [of course capital I]. As the years have gone by I share it even less with the out side world and let them see it in my actions more. Some people are ready some not, the workplace is a tricky situation. If the person is not ready they may resent you! He may aproach you on his own. You are living a sober life and that makes you a power of example. I believe that my #1 purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics as long as they want my help. Good luck Ken!


Member: glo
Location: NM
Date: 09 Jul 1999
Time: 11:53:34

Comments

Hi, Glo alcoholic here. Welcome to all newcomers. When I first heard about making amends I thought I was going to have to say I was sorry to folks I resented and I just wasn't too sure about doing that. Particularly with my father, afterall he was the one that left not me! The more I thought about making amends the more unsure I became of what "amend" meant so I had to look it up in the dictionary. (In true alcoholic fashion I was looking for the easier, softer way). Much to my surprise it did not say "to apologize" what it said was "to make right". Certainly this would be better than apologizing....I thought. Making things right has been much more difficult and much more freeing than "I'm sorry" could've ever been. In some instances "I'm sorry" may be the appropriate means of making things right but not always. This bit of information has allowed me the willingness to get thru steps 8 & 9 and you know that's all this program is really about...being willing.


Member: little al
Location: louisiana
Date: 09 Jul 1999
Time: 14:19:16

Comments

hi little al from la. here i totally agree that amends to your children are very difficult. making amends to my daughter who lwas born with an addicted father was one of the hardest things i have done other than the 1st step. it was a tremendous relief when she hugged me and told me that she forgave me.


Member: Stephanie L
Location: London,Ont. Canada
Date: 09 Jul 1999
Time: 14:20:11

Comments

Michelle,Take it easy on yourself. I'm almost three years sober and I've been thinking about drinking. Today,I don't want to drink. LIfe isn't that bad. The only reason I want to drink is because I'm not being honest with myself about my feelings. Resentments can kill you. I've had them and it has almost taken me right out. I have been avoiding my anger and it's catching up to me. Get honest with yourself and don't deny how you feel or you will go back out and drink. God doesn't want you to do that and either do I. Keep the faith. A friend of mine always tells me that fear is lack of faith. God bless everyone today. Hope everyone stays sober.


Member: AbelardoF
Location: aguascalientesMex.
Date: 09 Jul 1999
Time: 19:06:19

Comments

mellamo Abelardo Fysoyalcoh olicoydrogaadictocreo queelcuartoyquintopasoss  onlosq uedeseopra cticarahorap orqueconociéndome amimismopuedotenerlahum  ildadparaestardi spuestoasermej orcomopersonap arabiendelosdemásyelmiop ropioahídon deparecíaquesoloh abríamiser iaydesolación megustaríarecibirapa drinamiento alrespecto


Member: Sam Durrel
Location: America
Date: 09 Jul 1999
Time: 19:09:12

Comments

Guys! I understand your pain having abused all kinds of staff. But! Guess what? I stopped! And did so without any of this b.shit that AA feeds you. Can`t you see that you become addicted to your little club, and are really scared to be on your own? Grow up! Just stop once and for all! Addiction is not a sicness! Fucking AA and doctors are making tons of money on this staff. You are all free to go home and stay sober without this low-life aproach! One day i hope to charge AA with all kinds of crimes, including murder. They kill human dignity. Good luck to all of you, and remember - God was created by humans to feel more secure and romantic. So, fuck him.


Member: Roy S.
Location:
Date: 09 Jul 1999
Time: 20:57:27

Comments

Making amends is one of the toughest things I have ever had to do. It was extremely difficult to look someone in the eye and say "I'm sorry", but I decided it would be even tougher if I didn't. Sure enough, after it was done both I and the other people felt alot better, so it was indeed worth it. I'm grateful that AA has helped me in setting my life back straight - despite what others might think. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Eileen H.
Location: Queens, NY
Date: 09 Jul 1999
Time: 23:07:48

Comments

Hello To All in Staying Cyber. Eileen here, grateful, recovering alcoholic.

Whew. Quite a bit was said here. My eyes are hurting from those capital letters!! Amends, huh? Does it go on forever? I, for one, don't think that's true. Being sorry for something you've done means that you'll not do it again. At least that's what it means to me. Problem here is that we're addicted to alcohol. Pretty tricky to give up an addiction. That's where AA comes into our lives. In order to not have to keep saying "I'm sorry" we need to bring AA into our life. At least, I do. I know that my family would never in a million years believe I was sorry for my past if I ever started drinking again. But. I would be the one who would be sorriest. I would no longer have a beautiful life of sobriety. So today, I choose to stay sober.

Tonight, I was the speaker at a AA group in Queens, NY. I had been asked 3 weeks ago when I would have 90-days so I could give a "90-day Qualification". It was absolutely wonderful. AA has given me the way to "get my life back". And I intend to hold on to that life for as long as I have left OF my life.

The tools of AA are many. The telephone. The meetings. The sharing. The caring. The Steps and Traditions. The slogans. The coin tradition. To the newcomer I say "I reserve my right to drink any time of any day. But along with that drink I also reserve my right to take back all the hurt, all the degradation, all the problems, all the humiliation, that go with it." AA taught me how to stay sober one minute, one hour, one day at a time. That's all I gotta do. Just not drink today. Sure is hellish in the beginning . . . to put the drink out of your mind. But AA didn't lie to me. It does get better and it does get easier and the horrible, horrible obsession to drink does lessen.

If you feel that you need to drink RUN don't walk to the nearest meeting, the nearest telephone, the nearest ANYONE to you and TELL them!!! We've ALL been there . . . and we're there to help you through those agonizing moments when you think you're going drink or drug. But if you don't tell, if you don't call, if you don't share how can a fellow alcoholic/drug addict help??? It's too late AFTER you pick up.

There is no shame in telling someone "help me". There is strength in asking for help, and we get stronger every time we say it. Just like lifting weights. We tend to get a little flabby when not "weight-lifting".

AA I say a little prayer to you. I pray that you will be there for us always. I know I need you on a daily basis. You may not need me . . . but I need you.

Thanks for letting me share. Sober, and loving it in NY


Member: Gracie
Location: Tx
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 02:55:48

Comments

SAM: Dependence on God has been my pathway to true independence. Hope you figure that out for yourself. You must be really hurt to be so angry. I was that angry at one time and happy just beats the hell out of miserable.


Member: michelle  s
Location: canada
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 06:33:33

Comments

3 months, 3 yrs, christ, id be happy with 3 days sober.


Member: Paula N,
Location: Milford,Pa.
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 09:23:31

Comments

Hi, I"m Paula from Pa.I"ve been in the program for 22 years and am still making amends.I feel sorry for this poor fellow who does'nt believe in anything. The people in this program taught me how to live!One day at a time is not just a slogan. It works!!I have adaughter who has panic disorder.I still feel guilty sometimes.But I"m trying to help her through it. I make my meetings but I sure am glad thisnet is here. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Grace W.
Location: Dallas
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 10:12:23

Comments

Hi..I'm Grace from Dallas and i once heard someone say that their sponsor told them to put on their mirror the following..."you are looking at the problem" besides being funny, it really does hit the nail on the head. when i am feeling that horrid discomfort from things not going my way it usually means i have an amends to make to either myself or to another. invariably it stems from me and that doesn't mean to imply i'm always at fault, but it means instead that my expectations or demands on life and others are out of kilter. if i go back to my part i usually can see how i got off track and start over. making amends keeps me feeling light and living amends keep me sober and glad of it. congrats to the woman who is chairing her first meeting..it will be a great feeling for you. and i'm sorry that sam is so angry because anger is a poison and for me AA has proved to be the antidote.


Member: michelle   s
Location: canada
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 10:22:43

Comments

aaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Member: Maggie Mae
Location:
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 12:02:03

Comments

Michelle fom Canada. You don't have to continue to live in fear and pain. Get to a meeting face to face. I am only three weeks sober but already my life has changed. Read from the people here who have quality sobriety. Your life can be like theirs with the help of AA. They will accept you and love you. But you need to go to a meeting person to person. Good luck.


Member: larry c
Location: so. ca.
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 12:25:52

Comments

hi im larry im na alocholic, ive only been in the program for six months and am on my 4th step now i dont have a clue as to where to start.although i find the program very helpful in my attitude in life and the way i look at situations i am grateful to have found the program.if anyone could give me feedback on the 4th step i would appreciate it thanks and god bless


Member: Geri W
Location: Va
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 12:32:04

Comments

Geri, a very grateful alcoholic here. Sorry for the "double dip", but as we say in AA, I have a burnig desire. Maggie Mae - how wonderful that at three weeks you are already helping others. Michelle S, if you want what Maggie has, listen to her - pick up that fifty pound telephone and ask for help. It's there if you want it. Eileen, 90 days - awsome, girl! Joe b - two days is forever for us drunks. Congrats!

Sam Durrel - addictions are really tough for everyone. Unfortunely, they are not just physical dependency problems for most. If it was just physical, medical help would be all that was needed. If it were simple, none of us would suffer for long. Maggie Mae has it figured out after three weeks. Eileen knows the way in 90 days. Some of us take alot longer to find the path to freedom. I hope you find it.

Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Catherine
Location: Las Vegas
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 12:57:03

Comments

I am in a state at the moment where I feel someone has to make amends to me. In fact I'm seething. The details are not important but mine usually has to do with work or money. Someone said to me yesterday that my situations are always the ripper or the rippee. Well now that I've been sober for almost five years my behavior is leaning towards constantly being ripped off as opposed to the opposite. I would just like my mind not to go there. Not to go to either place. I have to learn how to protect myself. I am usually the reason that it happens because I fail to protect myself and cover all of the bases. Its progress though. At least I'm aware of it. My newfound awareness is major growth. My entire lesson is forgiveness. I don't think any of what I say is helpful to anyone but its nice to vent before I figure an action to take. Thats the beauty of the program


Member: Mark S.
Location: Plano, TX
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 14:20:47

Comments

Hi, my name's Mark and I am an alcoholic. Sober through the fellowship of AA now for 19 years. I read Michelle's comments and couldn't help but feel my heart ache for the alcoholic who still suffers. You see Michelle, you are us. Most of us, in the beginning, felt that "my case is different." That, "sure, I have a drinking problem, but if you had running around your head what I have in mine, you'd drink too!" My problem was things were truly bad when "in my cups", so to speak. But they were worse sober.Imposible, I thought. Until I put my trust into a power greater than myself by going to an AA meeting (face-to-face)and holding on for dear life. What the hell, 7 years in the liquor business, and I still couldn't find the "right" chemical combination. I thought It was hopeless. So hopeless in fact, I don't know for sure what day I got sober. I never thought to take notice because I had tried to stop on my own so many other times; with no success. AA works when so many other things fail. Welcome. We will love you until you learn to love your-self. You see, our very lives depend on it. Really. My fellow AA's, please excuse the diverting from the original topic, but nodody is as important as the new. Peace.


Member: Chris H.
Location:
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 15:12:52

Comments

Chris here and still an alcoholic.

Well Sam, way to go! Got a little of anger and resentment going do you! My thoughts are as follows, people with anger usually get into a hate group, you know the kind where others have like minded interests, and then see where you end up with your philosophy of life. I bet we can all guess where that will be. I realize AA does not sponsor or condone resentment. I also realize that a higher power greater than our selves is a corner stone of the program. It appears that you have a higher power too. It looks likes you are ruled by anger and hatred. Want to know something Sam, I was too at one time. Lucky for me and everyone I ever met that I am no longer, because I have a concept of something greater than myself that has a benevolent cause in my life. Good luck swimming with the sharks and staying sober, at least your life will be exciting when you run into a bigger fish with the same level of hatred. I am so glad that in my life today I don't have to be out there swimming in resentment. Thank you all for my sobriety, and thanks for reminding me what it is like to be without it!


Member: Avril G
Location: Driffield UK
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 15:21:51

Comments

THIS IS FOR MICHELLE, AND ANYONE ELSE Who is struggling. Please either post your own e-mail address, or use the ones posted here. We are here to help each other, Please don't struggle on alone.

DON’T QUIT

When things go wrong as they sometimes will, When the road you’re trudging seems all uphill, When the funds are low, but the debts are high, And you want to smile, but you have to sigh, When care is pressing you down a bit Rest if you must, But don’t you quit.

Life is queer with its twists and turns, As every one of us sometimes learns, And many a failure turns about When he might have won, had he stuck it out. Don’t give up though the pace seems slow, You may succeed with another blow.

Success is failure turned inside out - The silver tint of the clouds of doubt, And you never can tell how close you are, It may be so near when it seems so far; So stick to the fight, when you’re hardest hit

It’s when things seem worst that You must not quit

Goodie@anon25.freeserve.co.uk


Member: Michele B.
Location: NJ
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 17:56:39

Comments

First I give honor, praise and thanks to the Lord Jesus Christ for God's grace and the gift of life, salvation and sobriety. Michelle you are a winner. Congratulations to all the newcomers, oldtimer and all who stayed sober for today. I applaud you for your courage to stay in the process of not picking up a drink today despite the cravings of the body and the relentless voices in the mind in early recovery. I need to read more an amends because my sponsee blasted me today and it sort of ticked me off but I am glad she got her resentment off but now I am feeling bad becuase the demon of insensitivity crooped up and I made a remark that basically called the people at this new meeting in her area and also made the same reference to her hometown, that they were snobbish and unfriendly. I said that it's good that I wasn't a newcomer becuase I wouldn't return. She is super mad that I offended her homegroup members and talked about them to her and it wasn't personal but my observation and speaking of how uncomfortable I was at the meeting in a new area. I hate hurting others especially when you love them. Any suggestions or feedback and also recovering people to talk to.... doz121@aol.com.


Member: Eileen H.
Location: Queens, NY
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 18:35:52

Comments

Michele S, you too can have 24-hours. Just don't drink or drug today. As Mark S, Geri W, and Maggie Mae (and I) have said, we all had one day.

One day at a time . . . that is all we have. Put aside where it will lead to. Just worry about THIS 24-hours. Or 24 minutes, or 24 seconds.

Mark S thanks for helping out here. My heart goes out to Michele. Wish we could be there in your house/apt/whatever and get you over the hurdle. Hang in Michele. We're all rooting for you.

Before I joined AA I said to a friend of mine in AA "Gee, you'll be celebrating an anniversary, and Carlos will be celebrating an anniversary and Donna will be celebrating an anniversary. Wish I was too". And you know what he told me, Michele. He said "And you can too. One day at a time".

Eileenth@aol.com Sober in Queens, NY and Grateful for it.


Member: Don T.
Location: WY.
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 18:49:47

Comments

First time here. wow what a place. I have 85 days no sponser no detox no nothing exept the friends that I have made online. F 2 f meetings are almost impossible for me to make at this time. I know that I need to make them so I can use everything that is availbe in this program. In time I hope that I can start making meetings on a regular basis, but for now thanks to all the people here that help me stay sober one more day.How can I start making ammends before I do the other steps first? For now Being willing to make these ammends when I'm capable of making them is enough for me. As I once heard "keep it simple stupid" really does apply to me. Thanks for listening.


Member: michelle   s
Location: canada
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 19:04:25

Comments

im so scared !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Member: Cyndi R.
Location: Ohio
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 19:29:43

Comments

Hello AA family. It's my first time here and I see some awesome comments. I've been sober 6 years and for me, making ammends helps keep me in line and be accountable for my actions.

Don: You're right, being willing to make ammends is a beginning. Please get a sponsor and get to some face-2-face meetings.

Thanks to all of you for being here for me.


Member: Mike W
Location:
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 19:35:05

Comments

Hey list.

Want to start a new string here. I, for one, am extremely agitated about the current trend in media advertising to use 12 step programs as a point of humor. The latest I heard was incredibly offensive to all of us, calling a speaker "stupid."

Sorry, but these programs are life and death to this DA, AA, OA. No joking matter. But what do we do Traditions tell us to avoid media attention.

I am considering embarking on a personal campaign and invite you to comment. I would like to write a letter to these advertisers making clear that 12 step programs are not grist for their "humorous" ads. I will make it clear that I will not be buying the product and will be encouraging my "stupid," and "pitiable" and "pitiful" 12 step friends to do the same.

I will make it clear that I am sharing this message with thousands (eventually if you forward and share this boycott in meetings -- to millions)

Let me know if you think this violates the traditions. Would it be better to just ignore the offense? Is this "justifiable anger" that would be better left to those more qualified to handle it?

Look forward to your responses.

mike w


Member: Ginny H
Location:
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 20:15:23

Comments

I learned more about living through AA than I did from any other source. Besides the val- uable lessons & I also have had more fun than I ever had in my drinking days. My spi- rituality is part of my salvation, the key to my serenity. All things helped - the meetings, Big Book, 10 Steps, service to AA etc. Even the catch phrases. ODAAT


Member: Vicki D
Location: Salem, OR.
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 22:46:37

Comments

Hello, my name is Vicki and I am an alcoholic and addict. I am very very greatful for 17 years of sobriety in AA and 4 more white knuckle sobriety. This is my first time to visit staying cyber and it's wonderful. I would like to perhaps suggest to Michele C that in ADDITION to going to meetings, meetings, meeting, that you also go to detox, as sometimes the physical struggle is too great. Then find yourself a good doctor who specialized in Addiction Medicine (ASAM) Also use the telephone, go to more meetings, talk, talk, talk. The topic of making amends is very important for me. I have a grandaughter (age14) who just went into treatment last week. I am so greatful she has the opportunity to stop the disease early. How I live my life now in addition to all of those amends I have had to make will be a testament to who I really am as a person. I don't know if it means a thing to others, but boy am I greatful for a quiet, peaceful, emotionally intimate life with all of my loving frinds in AA. I have just moved to another city and have to begin in AA all over again. It's a bit scary at my age. And I will do it


Member: michelle  s
Location: canada
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 22:48:33

Comments

how can i be a winner, i havent stopped drinking yet. though i feel like crap, not enough. missed tonights meeting,,,,, maybe tommorrow..........


Member: michelle  s
Location: canada
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 22:55:30

Comments

for those that want to help, my email address is taz8@telus.com................tytytytytytyty I need it.


Member: Don F
Location:
Date: 10 Jul 1999
Time: 23:45:54

Comments

Mike W. 10 July 19:35----too bad this is the end of the week's message, and you didn't leave your email address. Don't identify yourself "at the level of press, radio, and films" and IMHO you don't break the tradition. Someone is feeding information, directly or inadvertently, to the writers, and they are abusing the information, by poking fun at the program, or people in it. Celebrities CAN identify themselves to fellow AA's by giving veiled references that we recognize, but "earth people" don't, like speaking of a day at a time, turning their addiction over to a Power greater than themselves, etc. I think you could write to the producers and simply tell them why they are doing a disservice to those who need the program and might be discouraged from going to AA because of the image being presented. I too, have seen a TV show present the supposedly recovering person as immature, shallow, selfish, and disrespectful of another's anonymity in a social situation. I forgot what show. If you read this tonight, communicate with me at Lytch49@aol.com

Have a good day, and remember, do what you can but don't get a resentment going, and don't obsess on straightening out Hollywood....this isn't the only social issue they've misrepresented, and "spun" unfairly.