Member: Sito T.
Location: Puerto Rico
Date: 6/1/2003
Time: 7:38:59 AM

Comments

I would like to start the week's dicussion talking about step 4. The problem I'm having is that I'm working it at a very slow pace and it seems I'm never going to finish. Any suggestions or experience sharing? If we are going to discuss the traditions, I have a question about tradition 4. What do you do when your home group wants to have administrative meetings always after a meeting instead of selecting a particular day. People that do not belong to the home group stay and listen to everything that's going on. I need help because I'm about to leave my group and join another one. Your comments are needed by this alkie.


Member: Kim V
Location: kvaughn@madison.main.nc.us
Date: 6/1/2003
Time: 9:08:44 AM

Comments

Kim here alcholic. I would think any concern about how an AA group is going would be solved with group conscoiusness. I would bring this up, explain how I feel and ask how everyone else feels about it. If they agree with you, another day would be selected or the administrative meeting could be closed to just home group members that have business etc. However I would be prepared for the possiblity that people may not agree with you and then you would either have to live with it, maybe just choose not to go to the administrative meeting or if you feel that strongly about it find another home group. I know for me I would not find another home group over something like this as my home group is much to important to me and gives me too much support for me to let something like this get in my way. I find when something like this is bothering me this much it is usually because of my control issues. But this is just me. Hope it helped. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Jeff T.
Location: Ne.
Date: 6/1/2003
Time: 9:54:29 AM

Comments

Jeff alcoholic, I like to look at it this way, step four is such an important step, that i guess if it took 4 years to wright it all out, than it would be worth it. How can we put a time limit on our life? The best & most life saving step`s are to follow, Sito. Good luck & don`t read what you wright down, I peeked & it was so depressing that i about never finished it. Just wright it all down like a life story & don`t look back or analyse it. Thanks...........


Member: Elizabeth E.
Location: Southeast USA
Date: 6/1/2003
Time: 12:11:25 PM

Comments

Real alcoholic named Elizabeth. Thanks for the topic Sito. I did my first 4th Step at 14 months of recovery. I don't suggest this for anyone! I walked around the rooms, not drinking; a loaded pistol waiting to be fired. First I picked up the pencil and put it back down; the next time I picked up the pencil, I made a mark on the paper and then, finally, when I saw that to go the way I was going, I would drink again. But my Higher Power's grace is sufficient to hold an alcoholic like me. I brought the topic up several times and then I was on my way. What I found out was that I wasn't a "bad" person, I just made "bad" choices. I found out that I had already been to hell and back. What else was there to fear? When I did my first (and subsequent) 4th steps I practiced "courage" which is the principal and doing, which is the action of the 4th step. My home group encouraged me to do it "scared." It worked! I am no longer afraid to take a long, deep, hard look at myself. I try to get with my sponsor on a yearly basis to do a 4th step. There is a long road of recontruction ahead. If I don't drink and trudge the Road of Happy Destiny daily I get the opportunity to "keep coming back". Thanks.


Member: Sandy B.
Location: cool colorful Colorado
Date: 6/1/2003
Time: 12:24:20 PM

Comments

My first exp with Step 4 was very interesting: I had been meaning to work on it & knew I should be, and I wanted to, but I just didn't until FOUR meetings in a row -- an they weren't step meetings and it wasn't April -- were about the Fourth Step! The fourth one was my then-favorite, the late Friday night Sex & Relationships meeting at the local Alano club, after which a lot of us would go out to breakfast. I didn't go out with them that nite, but straight home to start writing! Sito, maybe you could tell your Higher Power that you want to do Step 4 & ask HP to help you do it? On the Fourth Tradition, where I live now the two regular meetings don't even HAVE business meetings. To me that means they are not a healthy group (evident in other ways, too), but I have several good excuses for not bringing it up: I've only been living here 18 months, I don't want to alienate my fellow members, I need to do my own work before (or instead of??)I look outside for dragons to slay, I am just not (yet) brave enough to bring it up! Another place I need to ask HP for good orderly direction! Thanks for letting me share & have a great week!


Member: Bonny G
Location: Hot Springs, AR
Date: 6/1/2003
Time: 12:43:14 PM

Comments

Bonny, grateful recoverying alcoholic, I did the best I could with the 4th Step at my first attempt in 1989. I think my sponsor at that time, who had 3 years of sobriety, did the best that she knew how in sponsoring me. I think, personally, that we should encourage sponsees to do this step as soon as possible, to the best of their ability at the time. This gets a person moving forward instead of dreading the rest of the steps. I did another more thorough 4th step years later with a new sponsor, who had 25 years in sobriety, and the relief was so much better. I think we'll know the right time frame as it aproaches. If I had not of done the 4th step as thoroughly the 2nd time, I might very well have drank over things. Sito, you can always do a second 4th Step, the main thing is not to skip it out of fear, the Big Book tells us that "more will be revealed". I had a much clearer understanding the 2nd time. Good luck and God Bless. (Ask for His guidance as you write the 4th Step)


Member: Mike A
Location: El Cajon CA.
Date: 6/1/2003
Time: 2:27:27 PM

Comments

Mike, Alcoholic, Sito the first thing I would ask is did you take a 3rd step like the book suggest and if not I would do that (we had to have gods help) and read the top of pg. 64 and follow directions, it's to your benefit, no one elses, the sooner we disclose the damaged and unsalable goods the sooner we will be free. Good luck and give yourself a break, quit tormenting yourself, were not writing a novel, just remember honesty.As for the home group thing, I agree that only home group members attend home group meetings wether it's before a meeting of after.If what's in the format of the group consience is not exceptable to you I'd find another group, thanks for letting me share, happy 24hrs to all.


Member: DavidH
Location: Nashville
Date: 6/1/2003
Time: 8:14:36 PM

Comments

I know with me I worked on it a little each night, then called my sponsor each night. He also suggested I carry note cards with me during the day so I could jot stuff down during the day as it came to me.


Member: DavidH
Location: Nashville
Date: 6/1/2003
Time: 8:14:37 PM

Comments

I know with me I worked on it a little each night, then called my sponsor each night. He also suggested I carry note cards with me during the day so I could jot stuff down during the day as it came to me.


Member: Cy H.
Location: Tx.
Date: 6/1/2003
Time: 10:35:09 PM

Comments

Cynthia- alcoholic, ditto on what Bonnie G. said, good stuff. The only other thing I can add is KEEP IT SIMPLE! There are so many un-AA ways of doing the 4th step and they can be very confusing.On page 64 thru the end of How it works it is pretty plain and simple on how to do step 4. Our founders knew the alcoholic mind very well so they gave very easy instructions. As has been said after I took the step the relief I felt was so worth it and more has been revealed over the years, its about clearing away the reckage of the past to make room for what my H.P. would have me be.Good sobriety here! Thanks.


Member: Cy H.
Location: Tx.
Date: 6/1/2003
Time: 10:35:35 PM

Comments

Cynthia- alcoholic, ditto on what Bonnie G. said, good stuff. The only other thing I can add is KEEP IT SIMPLE! There are so many un-AA ways of doing the 4th step and they can be very confusing.On page 64 thru the end of How it works it is pretty plain and simple on how to do step 4. Our founders knew the alcoholic mind very well so they gave very easy instructions. As has been said after I took the step the relief I felt was so worth it and more has been revealed over the years, its about clearing away the reckage of the past to make room for what my H.P. would have me be.Good sobriety here! Thanks.


Member: Ron L
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 6/1/2003
Time: 11:49:37 PM

Comments

My names is Ron and I am an alcoholic. In how it works it says.. " Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery." If you want to get on with your recovery then don't BALK at the steps. On page 65 big book it says, and shows us how to do a inventory. No where do I see where it tells me to write a story of my life. On your resentment sheet..." we set them on Paper" page 64 B.B. put down the name, the cause, and how it effects you, and that is it, do the same with your fears..." we put them on paper," page 68 B.B. Then do the same with sex... name cause and effect. " we got this all down on paper and looked at it " page 69 B.B. Get working on it Sito, Easy does it when it comes to your group, sounds to me that maybe you should put your group down on your resentment list, good luck and Ill say a prayer for you... rontherocket@hotmail.com


Member: Greg A
Location: Indiana
Date: 6/2/2003
Time: 12:46:11 AM

Comments

Hi, I'm Greg and I'm an alcoholic. The first time I did the fourth step I was overwhelmed by the amount of time and energy I put into doing it. After several weeks, my sponsor asked me how I was doing and I told hime that I had something like twenty-five pages. My sponsor told me that was more than he wanted to hear in my fifth step and set up an appointment for me to do my fifth step with him. That was a good lesson for me. I had hashed and re-hashed all these events over and over again in my mind that I didn't want to let go of them. The other part is that I didn't trust anyone, including my sponsor, at the point that I was doing my fourth step. The fifth step was an important tool for me to learn trust. It was after several years that I learned how much I could trust my sponsor with the things I disclosed to him in my fifth step. The point is: don't let your fear of doing the fifth step stop you from doing your fourth step. Another point: pick someone trustworthy to hear your fifth step. For those unfamiliar with the steps, the fourth step reads: "Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves." The fifth step reads: "Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs." Thank you for letting me share.


Member: Carlc
Location: nnm
Date: 6/2/2003
Time: 12:59:31 AM

Comments

We read everyday, these are the steps that we took,I dont know where people get this stuff about working the steps. There is one way and one way only to take these steps, the way they are outlined in the book. People come into the program they get a sponsor, and in their infinite wisdom these self appointed gods take them to steps 4 and 5 right away. That is like taking a 6year old to the sixth grade instead of the 1st. We have a basic text that nobody uses, we subject these poor alchoholics to some of the most unadulterated bullshit on this planet, heal, feel, and deal, let us love you you until you can learn to love yourself, fake it till you make it, wait for the miracle to happen, dont drink, go to meetings, and call your sponsor, call him for what??? For the guy having trouble with the 4th step forget about a sponsor and get yourself someone who has taken the steps and have him or her take you through the book. Also these home groups are nothing but mutual admiration societies, and if you dont believe me just start to get well and start talking about God and the program of recovery see how long you will be welcome in their little cliche. The book says TRUST GOD, clean house and give freely, what in the world is all this hiring and firing??


Member: monet
Location: So. California
Date: 6/2/2003
Time: 1:03:14 AM

Comments

Monet alcoholic, Hi Tito this is the perfect topic for me because I just recently started my 4th step, for the 2nd attempt. The first time I was 1 year sober and it took me forever to complete it. i let the fear dominate me and i was not allowing myself to be completly honest with myself in the area of my deep resentments and my fear of looking at why i was procrastinating the way that i was. Today i have a sponsor who sees right through my fear and self sabatoge and who suggested that i start with a list of fears and why i have the fears and to complete one person on my 4th step everyday. i read it to her daily and it has been great because this way i am not getting overwhelmed. -blessings.


Member: Mike H.
Location: Jackson MI
Date: 6/2/2003
Time: 7:07:10 AM

Comments

Mike, alcoholic. My first 4th step was a rush job. I just wanted to get it over with. I took 4 days to do it. It was the best I could do at that time. After doing the 5th step it was like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders. Since the first time I have done several 4th steps as more is revealed to me. It is scary writing down the past but if we don't we will certainly drink again and for me that means death. As for the home group thing, people will be people and we have to accept that. I go to meetings for me and if I can help somebody in the process so much the better. As for me, I don't care how the meeting is run as long as I have a meeting to go to. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Scott R
Location: Nova Scotia
Date: 6/2/2003
Time: 7:38:10 AM

Comments

I'm Scott and I'm alcoholic. The fourth step was tough for me because I thought I didn't know what I was talking about. Then I realized that it was all about me. It was the fifth step that really made a difference though ebcause I was so afraid that if someone knew all that stuff I wouldn't be accepted. I was. It was a great relief to have shared my moral inventory with my sponsor at the time. We have the right to choose which group we belong to - nothing says we have to stay with one group.


Member: Craig L (Dogmanor@yahoo.com)
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Date: 6/2/2003
Time: 10:36:41 AM

Comments

Craig here, another Real Alcoholic (Page 21). When I was a newcomer, my sponsor and I met once a week and we read the Big Book, starting from page i. We usually only met an hour, read a chapter and talked about it. I wasn't much fun to be around then. My insanity was huge. I was sorely embarrassed to be on my knees, holding his hand, while we recited the 3rd step prayer. After that he gave me ten days to have my forth ready. We set the date for the fifth that evening. I followed the outline in the book with his help. As others have said; at the time it was my best effort. I've done several 4ths since then, using guides and because a situation required me to change my perspective. I also agree that early on I needed to feel I was moving forward. Today, I work with many different people. I follow the same simple formula which I was first exposed. I always set a date for the fifth right after we pray on our knees together at step 3. My alcoholism likes to be complex, the solution is simple. Do it!!


Member: L-RAY
Location: SCOTLAND
Date: 6/2/2003
Time: 12:58:42 PM

Comments

Step four was a insight to what i was like and what i was like now! after a couple of weeks after my 3rd step i had made a fearless inventory of myself and leaving no stone unturned i was ready for my 5th and a long run in my sponsers car and a few motorway stops and 4 hours later i came to my 6th. regards L-RAY


Member: robert j.
Location: angel beach
Date: 6/2/2003
Time: 1:17:31 PM

Comments

Everyone always says that the 4th step as explained in the BB should be simple,it was'nt for me,I complicated the hell out of it,It was'nt untill I read Alcoholic #3s explanation of the 4th step that I got a better understanding,it goes like this..this is a step which should be taken with the assistance of a sponsor or counselor who is well experienced in this changed life-due to the alcoholics ability to find justification for just about anything-a sponsor can bring up through sharing,many various moral weaknesses which need attention in their life and can smooth the way for the alcoholic to examine them in a frank fashion,the next step suggests that someone is helping with step 4 since it reads..Step 5,we admitted to God,to ourselves AND another human being,the exact NATURE of our wrongs,I'm not sure why I could'nt get it out of the BB,maybe it just was'nt literal enough ? :)


Member: Josh S
Location: Hollywood
Date: 6/2/2003
Time: 4:26:33 PM

Comments

My name is Josh and I am a gteatful alcoholic. Over the years I have written several 4ths and all I can say about that is I prayed for honesty be for and fought to not judge or justify my past.


Member: Bikerbabe
Location: Over the hill and into the mountains for a while.. se ya' all later... and yes its a promise...
Date: 6/2/2003
Time: 9:00:19 PM

Comments

Of all the men ive loved before,,,, Who now appear in my step 4... Why doesn't anyone ever bring up the topic of sex... why? 'oh 'ohhhhh cue the music again)) "I am wondering .. if i'll be alone.. knowin that i need ya ta save,, im wonderin,,, if you'll be at home.. im wonderin if you'll be my baby...


Member: MIKE M
Location: BEND,OR
Date: 6/3/2003
Time: 9:28:48 AM

Comments

MIKE ALCOHOLIC, THE 4TH STEP WOW! WHAT AN ORDER.I'M ONE THOSE THAT TRIED TO WORK THE STEPS BY MYSELF.AT 13 MONTHS DRY I WAS STILL STUCK ON THE 3RD STEP(STUCK ON STUPID) FINELY I HAD A MOMENT OF GRACE AND WAS ABLE TO ASK ANOTHER MAN IN AA TO BE MY SPONSOR.I BELVIE THAT IF I DON;T WORK THE STEPS I WILL DRINK AND TO DRINK FOR THIS ALCOHOLIC IS A SAD LONLY PLACE. THANX FOR LETTING ME SHARE


Member: jmw
Location: northwest
Date: 6/3/2003
Time: 10:34:14 AM

Comments

jmw here, alcoholic. I agree with what others are saying here. I have done my fourth step before yet have relapsed and an now in the program again on step two. I think that step four is one of the most important links to the greater chain and more time should be taken on it than many of the others. You should make sure that you say everything you want to say as well as all of those things you never wanted to say. If you can do this and not get an overwhelming sense of hoplessness then the pain and the guilt and some of the reasons for drinking will slowly subside and you can work on other aspects of your program. but what ever you do, do not take this step lightly for it will be on of the steps that shape who you are going to be. thanks and keep working it.


Member: Carrie
Location: Los Angeles
Date: 6/3/2003
Time: 2:09:01 PM

Comments

Carrie alcohlic - THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR SHARES!!!!!! I needed to hear everything, I have stopped working on my fourth step and now because of you wonderful people, I am getting right back on it. Thank you very much : )


Member: joe s.
Location: Michigan Rezdog
Date: 6/3/2003
Time: 3:21:01 PM

Comments

never hurts to share experience, strength and hope on a topic relating to the steps. in my "treatment" sobriety, i couldn't get get honest because i wasn't doing it for myself. when i crashed and realized the importance of adult supervision, the teacher appeared. just another alcoholic who read the book and worked through the steps. he demonstrated, by example, the fourth step is not the monster i thought it was. when i turned the mirror around and saw my part in everything, the necessity of rigorous honesty became crystal clear. in the course of action, i now pass on to others what my sponsor taught me. good sailing, sito!


Member: mary
Location: Minnesota
Date: 6/3/2003
Time: 3:43:17 PM

Comments

hi i am a drunk mary, my 4th step unlocked the darkness and fear of my past, it took me about 6months and alot of help to do it i just had to stop thinking of myself and do it. i need to do another one again its been a year and half since but it was the best thing to do. i would not be sober today without doing my 4th step.I'M FREE OF THE BAGGAGE


Member: Robert
Location: Ohio
Date: 6/3/2003
Time: 4:52:22 PM

Comments

((Sito)) It took me over about a year to do my fourth step. Alot of that time was spent worrying about how long it was taking me instead of working on it. Just work on it as much as you can and don't worry about the time it's taking you. It will take you however long it takes you. This is not a race. The most important thing is to be honest with yourself and honest on paper.


Member: nikki/mike
Location: philly
Date: 6/3/2003
Time: 7:04:33 PM

Comments

sito hi my names mike when we addmitted in step one that we were powerless over and would go to any length to recover .let me simplify the 12 steps 1 this one if dont truly want to stay the rest of your life then dont go any further because it wont work. step 2 nowing my way got me drunk i had to believe some one could restore me to sanity its just a thougt step3 believingin god scared at first so i went with that feeling for a freind the minute i see someone that split second i get a good feeling that i myself cant stop that good feeling so i went with it step 4 knowing i was truly licked over alchol i sat down with my sponcer and put on paper every body i came in contact with as far back as i could remember and anybody i said to myself when i see that person im going to kick his ass . then my sponcer looked over my list and asked me ? for intance my mother do i resent my mother do i envy my mother do i show her false pride ,jealous,dishonest,fear,and so on and we went down the list of names and asked me the same ? and the ones i told him yes to itold him why i feel that way and found out it was really me all a long and what i could do from here on out to change that thats a 5 step example if i resent i try to be more forgiving if im dishonest i try to be more honest u do the opposite they are my charecter defects that i ask god to remove 6step then i say the prayer and thats step 7 which removes any further defects that might come from here on out i try to be a better person step 8 those list of people i made some of them if not all need my amends that brings me to step 9 make amends where i can and just become willing to make amends when the time is right just that thought brings me to step 10 be aware of my defects through out the day at night i go over my day to see if i could of been just a little bit better and if i need to work on something i ask god to direct me and that brings me to step 11and step 12 is what im doing now trying to help you . thanks and remember keep it simple it works if you work it recovered alkie named mike


Member: eric nelson
Location: thousand oaks
Date: 6/3/2003
Time: 7:47:56 PM

Comments


Member:
Location:
Date: 6/3/2003
Time: 11:25:40 PM

Comments

Why in the world do we have a basic text??


Member: Teresa B.
Location: Elkhart, IN
Date: 6/4/2003
Time: 12:33:26 AM

Comments

Hi everyone, I'm Teresa, alcoholic. Sito, IMHO alcoholics have this tendency to jump in one of two ditches when faced with something scary, like a fourth step. We either jump into the ditch of slow-as-molasses-in-an- Artic-winter or the ditch of fast as Mad Max heck-bent-for-leather to get it over with. You didn't say so, but are you working with a sponsor? If so, good for you. If not, I strongly advise you to get one and work with him/her right at step one. I did my first three 4th steps wo/ a sponsor which was a major mistake. Going thru one now with a sponsor is so much better. FYI, the May 2003 Grapevine had an excellent suggestion on how to do a fourth step. The writer's sponsor had him write out a list of grudges, a list of fears, and a list of major human failings based on the Seven Deadly Sins; greed, lust, sloth, gluttony, envy, pride, and anger. I'm going to have the person I sponsor use this format when it's her turn to do her first fourth step. The trick of doing ANYTHING in AA is to seek balance and progress, not intensity and/or perfection. Use the guidelines your sponsor gives you and work some on it, one day to a time. Oh, and as far as the business meetings go, I agree to get a group conciousness on your concerns. I wouldn't jump willy-nilly to another group, but neither would I care to stay with one that wasn't challenging my recovery program or was teaching a buncha crap that's not in the Big Book. Hope this helps. Great topics!!!


Member: KAthleen
Location: Florida
Date: 6/4/2003
Time: 9:41:34 AM

Comments

Hello all, Kathleen here alcoholic. Step 4 was one of the most important for me I do belive. As was step 5. It wasn't until I did them both did I stay sober. And I agree with whoever posted about the "basic text."..The big book lays it out pretty simple. I was so full of guilt, was one of those alkies that thought everything was my fault, however I did have alot of resentments. I was at the top of my list. I think the important thing was to be thorough though as it says in the big book. I had help from my sponser and did it to the best of my ability. I think the most difficult part was I wanted it to be perfect and it doesn't have to be perfect, just to the best of our ability. If something else pops up later there is always the 10th step or another 4th for those who care to do another 4th. There are so many different phamplets and work books and all put out by various comapnies and all but I had to keep it simple, and use the guideline in the big book... Thanks for helping me to stay sober today.. Kathleen


Member: Stephanie
Location: Chicago
Date: 6/4/2003
Time: 11:11:36 AM

Comments

Sito, I was told to wait a year before starting my 4th. The reason was I needed (a lot of us need) to work Step 3 deeply and repeatedly in my life, so we learn to rely on the HP to carry us through our fears. I got a new sponsor at 9 mos and she was of a different opinion, said I was "late" starting the 4th. So I started it - but it took several months to finish because of my fears and shame. I still needed to live in Step 3; my first advisor was right. There's no great rush to finish the 4th Step - as long as we are working toward it with our HP. Keep praying for willingness, courage and faith, and write as much as you can. Recovery isn't about beating ourselves up. It's about consistent, gentle growth. Remember also that these steps are for us, not for our sponsors or anyone else. This is your tool. One of the things I learned in doing the 4th is that the fear and shame are totally unnecessary. Through prayer and "just doing it," I got the beginnings of self-acceptance. But it took awhile to get me ready for that message, and that's okay. If I'd been pushed into the 4th too early, I think I would have gotten drunk. If you think you're taking too long on it, pray for help on your procrastination, rationalization or whatever is slowing you down. Remember the 5th Step has incredible healing powers, but you can't get there until you finish this... Take it easy, good luck.


Member: J-Rae
Location: N.D.
Date: 6/4/2003
Time: 12:02:52 PM

Comments

Hi Everyone. J-Rae, alcoholic. Sober today only by the Grace of God, and A Higher Power, whom I choose to call God. I did my 1st 4th step in treatment, much like Mike H., rushed. Then, when I had a permanent sponsor, she walked me through it. More was definitely revealed...then did a couple of more since then, the last being just about 2 months ago, where even more was revealed. Looking at myself was not a habit in my life before coming into the rooms of AA... I was too busy taking others' inventories, and blaming others for all my problems...Step 4 changed alot of that! It got me down to causes and conditions of my motives of why I did the things I did...which were mostly my self-will run riot. Fear usually loomed because I was afraid I was going to lose something I had, or afraid I wasn't going to get something I wanted. I'd lived my life seeking approval from nearly all I came in contact with, without thought to any of the consequenses. It just depended on who I was seeking approval of at the time. There were many I'd harmed along the way, mostly everyone I knew, and lots I'd never even considered. I had wreckage in lots of states, and even a few countries, to boot. Some of the garbage was buried deep, and with every 4th more was revealed. Thanks for all your shares, and for being a big part this road of Happy Destiny...


Member: Carrie
Location: Los Angeles
Date: 6/4/2003
Time: 2:13:25 PM

Comments

Hi, Carrie alcoholic here. Today I am doing a household chore, then writing, then doing a chore, then writing, etc. By the time I get sick of doing one, I am willing to do the other - since i usually dont like to do either, I am finding this a great system!!!!


Member: Carrie
Location: Los Angeles
Date: 6/4/2003
Time: 2:14:41 PM

Comments

(writing on my fourth step I meant to say)


Member: Melanie
Location: Akron, Ohio, USA
Date: 6/5/2003
Time: 12:44:40 AM

Comments

Hello, friends, I'm Melanie, an alcoholic. It took me 9 months to complete my 4th step. I found that I had to go back and work on taking some action on the 3rd step before I could make any progress on the 4th. The 3rd step had to be more than just a decision for me. I had to practice the "four absolutes," honesty, unselfishness, purity and love. I practiced living by these ideals and making decisions based on them. I used them one at a time, until I gradually began to feel that I was molding my character into one more in agreement with what the Good Lord would approve. In changing my actions and ideals, I became willing and able to look at my past and find the roots of the "evil" ways I had been living and pull those roots out! As for the homegroup, my homegroup usually welcomes anyone to sit in on the business meetings. Some people even sign up to help when they see what is involved with financing and running a weekly meeting. Only homegroup members can vote, and if a sensitive topic needs to be discussed we call a closed meeting. My group is listed as a "beginners" meeting. Maybe that explains the open attitude. If they had not let me sit in , I would have been afraid to join. I was not ready for "big decisions" or "major commitments" until I saw how the group worked together. Peace to you all!


Member: Ron R.
Location: Kochi Japan
Date: 6/5/2003
Time: 3:58:26 AM

Comments

Ron Alcoholic (1) I really had a hard time to admit that I was an alcoholic and needed help.(2) I really had a hard time to admit that there was some thing mentally wrong with me that only a higher power could fix (3)I really had a hard time comming to grips with a GOD of my under standing after all the years I had turned my back on GOD..... Why on earth would I think even for one moment that doing a forth step was going to be a cake walk.


Member: Susan A.
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
Date: 6/5/2003
Time: 3:06:00 PM

Comments

Hi all, I'm Susan and I'm an Alcoholic. Thanks, Sito, Great discussion so far. My idea for you would be to maybe try the "one column at a time" technique. I had a hard time with my first attempt at a 4th step, mostly because I didn't understand, and was trying to do an immoral/amoral inventory (tell how horrible I was, and all the horrible things done to me or that I did). Also, I still wasn't tracking well; it took me about a year for the fog to start lifting (ex: I used to have to look at a zip code three times when copying it onto an envelope to make sure I got it down right, and I still don't remember much of the late 70's or early 80's). My sponsor helped me stop that crazy, self-defeating first attempt, and told me I should just write down a list of all the people/things I was angry at. No whys or details, just the names with about 5 lines in between each (I didn't know it, but she was guiding me through the 4th step inventory by the instructions in the Big Book, and this is col 1). I was amazed how many were on that list. Once done, I was to write what they did to me in 2 or 3 -short- details (col 2), not every detail, nuance, emotion, memory. This helped me to keep from drowning in all those memories and emotions, and if I did start drowning in anger or self-hatred, I was to call her quick. She guided me through col 3 (how what they did affected me, what instinct did it threaten?) then col 4 (What was my mistake, what did I do that got that person so mad they left/cheated me/etc.) then col 5 (what was behind my behavior, what character defect was I acting on (selfish/dishonest/self-seeking/frightened). It was an amazing process that quickly started showing me just how stupid a lot of the resentments were, and gave me solid things I could change (about me). My sponsor helped me inventory Fears the same way, then Sex and all others. The positive effects from a good inventory were that I -practiced- step 3, I started to change, and as a result, I haven't had to drink again. The process was simple once I let someone lead me through it. (not easy for this drunk, but simple and do-able - which is true of most things in this program for me). Thanks, see you next week.


Member: Carrie
Location: Los Angeles
Date: 6/5/2003
Time: 4:26:37 PM

Comments

So far, from my fourth step, I have learned that my pride causes me ALOT of pain and I am always seeking approval from others. I am in love with AA right now & I pray I never fall out of love with AA. It took me a long time to get here, but it was worth every harship and hurdle I had to go through to do it. It's so cliche, but keep comming back - IT WORKS IF YOU WORK IT!! Tonight I get to give one of my best girlfriends a cake for 1 year. I am a REALLLLLLY gratefull girl!


Member: D-flat
Location: fargo
Date: 6/5/2003
Time: 6:33:46 PM

Comments

my first fourth step had a profound effect on me and helped me to relise i am not the center of the universe, life got hard at the end of my drinking and i couldnt figure out why everyone bugged the shit out of me,, i just wanted to drink like everyone else,, but towards the end of my drinking and the end was a long time, i started to black out every time i drank and would wake up or "come to" filled with fear and loathing, and from the beginning of my drinking till the end rationilzation became my main tool of survival,, i lied to myself constantly,, ioh that happened because i did that, or better yet because they did somthing to provoke me" so as i was saying the 4th step really helped me to look at myself in what i was doing and how it was affecting my life,, i did the list thing like it says in the book, but the hardest thing was just to get the pen to the paper, once i started it went well and i feel it was a honest and thourgh job, even though that old rationalizing tried to come back i just kept at it and went through all the people places and things i had resentments towards,, and looked at my side of the street and what i was doing, it was a good feeling to get that down on paper, and the 3rd step gave me the freedom to really look at what i was doing without any fear or hesitation,, I am gratefull to the person who first helped me through the steps, and yes i believe they are but suggestions but like i heard its also suggested to pull the string on your parachute when you jump out of a plane,,,,haha peace


Member: nancy
Location:
Date: 6/6/2003
Time: 1:13:04 AM

Comments

Has anyone out there notice the ratio of men to women in the prgram. it seems to me that it is almost 6 males to 1 female . this is really a ,hinderence to me /f/. it is limiting me only buy the judgement of others. I know what someone says about me speaks louder of them than me. I try to treat everyone as equals,It seems to me that not every one stands to gain the same opportunities and dignity bestowed on select few. As a famale if i even talk to a male the talk that comes back to me is that of a sexual nature,12 step work is 12 step work not remotely connected to sex. I pray for those sick minds .the same sick minds that wouldnt cross thee street to help a person laying in the street with a bottle in his hand want so despaaartly to make the pain stop.Pray that God would have mercy on him .This is one of my experances. The man cryied when I called him sir,said to me the last time any one called him sir was when he was in Vietam. so I guess what I am asking is does it matter if the hand that reaches out is male or famale more than that there was a hand there who reached out. I was taught that i am responsable to reach out to the alcholic who still suffer. Some one please show me in the first 164 page where it is written NO FEMALE SHALL HELP A MALE ,if she does scourn her and defile her intigerty.this is what happen here.I will not let this Question my commentment to AA. I paid to high of a price for my life. Women in the prgram have it hard enoungh when will we be treated as equals. I thank God for all my journey and helpping stay sober 1 more 24hours


Member: nancy
Location:
Date: 6/6/2003
Time: 1:13:40 AM

Comments

Has anyone out there notice the ratio of men to women in the prgram. it seems to me that it is almost 6 males to 1 female . this is really a ,hinderence to me /f/. it is limiting me only buy the judgement of others. I know what someone says about me speaks louder of them than me. I try to treat everyone as equals,It seems to me that not every one stands to gain the same opportunities and dignity bestowed on select few. As a famale if i even talk to a male the talk that comes back to me is that of a sexual nature,12 step work is 12 step work not remotely connected to sex. I pray for those sick minds .the same sick minds that wouldnt cross thee street to help a person laying in the street with a bottle in his hand want so despaaartly to make the pain stop.Pray that God would have mercy on him .This is one of my experances. The man cryied when I called him sir,said to me the last time any one called him sir was when he was in Vietam. so I guess what I am asking is does it matter if the hand that reaches out is male or famale more than that there was a hand there who reached out. I was taught that i am responsable to reach out to the alcholic who still suffer. Some one please show me in the first 164 page where it is written NO FEMALE SHALL HELP A MALE ,if she does scourn her and defile her intigerty.this is what happen here.I will not let this Question my commentment to AA. I paid to high of a price for my life. Women in the prgram have it hard enoungh when will we be treated as equals. I thank God for all my journey and helpping stay sober 1 more 24hours


Member: Carlc
Location: NM
Date: 6/6/2003
Time: 1:45:18 AM

Comments

Thank you Nancy, the book says strenuous work one alcholic with another was vital to permanent recovery, it also says that nothing will insure immunity from drinking like intensive work one alcoholic with another. I will sit anytime, anywhre, with anyone no matter how long it takes and take them through the book the way it was done for me. because it helps me to help others, our sole purpose it to be of maximum service to God and the people about us. The american dream which a lot of meetings consist of can be achieved by getting a job and going to work everyday. Everyone talks about respect but how many people actually practice it. The 12 step says haveing had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps we tried to carry THIS message (The steps) and practice these principles in all our affairs.


Member: Kory
Location: U.P.MICH.
Date: 6/6/2003
Time: 3:18:04 AM

Comments

Took me three meetings to do the first three steps, Four minutes to do the 4th step.Ten minutes to do step 5, just because the other man wouldn't shut up.! 1.I'm a drunk 2.Not insane 3.Can't do it alone 4.Not broke don't fix it 5.See you at a meeting. Simple, yet it works for me. Don't use,,, people, places or things Give myself to,,, people, places or things Think of others, more than of myself. My house and mind are clean, as is the tables, chairs and coffee mugs.


Member: Mary V.
Location: CT
Date: 6/6/2003
Time: 12:34:18 PM

Comments

Nancy, You bring up an important issue. Where i go to mixed meetings, women seem to receive the same respect as men in general- people are respected for the type of program they work, what the offer, etc. However of course there are always the occasional perverts, etc. AA is an open place and we have to keep that in mind and take care of ourselves and our sobriety. Have you tried any women's meetings? Perhaps you should stick to those for now if certain issues arise for you in the mixed meetings. Don't want to let anything distract you from your main purpose- to get & stay sober and help other alcoholics achieve sobriety! Remember, just because someone is in an AA meeting doesn't necessarily mean they are sober, sane, or not seeking something other than sobriety in the meeting (ie. sex). When the big book was written i believe it was all men at the time so this issue is not addressed. This is not to say that there are not people in the program who don't have such an agenda, but in the beginning you should take all precautions to gaurd your sobriety. The 2nd step reminds us that the newcomer is not yet "sane".. or rational. This is why i think such suggestions have developed - it makes sense to follow the suggestion of "men, stick with the men. women, stick with the women" atleast for a while when you first come in. This is to avoid potential distractions and problems. For me, once i put some time together and worked the steps for a while, I became more comfortable in how to handle situations in mixed meetings. ...we will intuitively know how to handle situations that used to baffle us. Keep coming! It's important for the the newcomer women to have strong sober women to identify with and help them when they come in! peace


Member: Bikerbabe
Location: Hellishelping
Date: 6/6/2003
Time: 4:58:26 PM

Comments

((Nancy)) right on.. just some experience strength and hope for ya.. Get yourself a male sponsor... sleep with him if he's hot.. definately... i have had at least 3 male sponsors... and i slept with all but 2 of them..((NOT AT THE SAME TIME!...Sheesh.. get your minds out of the gutter! )) anyhow: they were some of the best experiences of my sobriety.... god they were spiritual..and sexy, and bad and nasty all rolled into one.. to give the experience its proper due.. i would have to resort to poetry.. no kidding.. in short... You gotta get yourself some.. theres nothing better.. oh i even tried a newcomer once.. he was fabulous.. no regrets at all.. and i know they arent regrettin it. Life is just too good.


Member: LADY
Location: TEXAS
Date: 6/6/2003
Time: 5:14:58 PM

Comments

Hi everyone, I'm a lady who is an alcoholic. I regularly share here but because this is mixed company and I'm sharing about women stuff, I don't want to say my name. (((Nancy))) I knew a lady who had a male sponsor who has a good 40 years now. She was married 58 years to the same man, and she never had any sexual relations with her sponsor. However, back in the day, there were not a lot of women. This placed smelled like 3 piece suits and cheap cologne- I'm sure. But now a days, it's a little different. It was explained to me that you don't want to sh*t in your own back yard. Meaning, looking up one day, and realizing your in a meeting with six men that you have "accidently" slept with over a period of time. That might not make you feel so hot about yourself. On page 69 (me and my friends always thought that was funny- 69-haha- anyways) it talks about the whole sex deal-read it and see what you think. For me, I had to first do my sex inventory, then, get honest with my own behavior. Was I flirty when "talking to that good looking man about step 6 and 7" was I going to meetings that I knew "he" was at, where there sexuall conotations in my conversations with men? And then I had to plant an idea in my head about how God's will and my wants meshed together in that department. I knew all my life I wanted a marriage, a husband, and a monogomous(sp?) relationship with that man. So, it was just easier for me to stick with the women. There was no temptation there for me, and I was not trying to distract anyone else from their program. I knew after awhile who was safe and who was not. I knew which men I could talk to, and which ones I didn't need to talk to. When the fresh drunk came in smelling like a** and booze, I would say, "hey, you need some help? Let me go get one of my guyfriends to help you." And after awhile God did for me what I couldn't do for myself. When I got to the program, I was insecure, I hated me, no self respect, and I had nothing to offer anyone, let alone a good man. But I knew that a good looking pair Levis could be a great distraction to me, because I was SO NEEDY of some attention. I didn't know who to trust. So, I just stayed away from the 13 steppers I knew of, I got an excellent line of women to talk to, worked the steps, trusted God to fufill my hearts desires, AND... I finally attracted that winner. The guy who rocked my world. And I actually had to work on drawing his attention back to me at first, because I was so use to the ignore button I just pushed him off the first few times he tried to hold a conversation with me. He is now my husband. I tell you, some are sicker than others, and I knew men were a down fall of mine, give me a good looking cowboy in a tight pair of Levis (forget Wranglers-uhggg!!) yummy!!! so I had to recoil because I was willing to go to ANY lengths to stay sober. I was abstinate from sex for over a year and 11 months (that's almost two years folks) before I let myself go there. I didn't shit in my own back yard, and now I reep the benefit of that. When I walk into my home group, I walk in with my head high, and I can look everyone in the eyes. I could never do that before, I had to have a drink first. The men in there respect me, because I have never given them a reason to disrespect me. Get honest, and if you are being honest, keep on coming back and helping out the still suffering alcoholic. P.S. Love the Vet story, but really, did he cry? Or was that just sweat from his forehead because he's standing out side with his sign that read "TRAVELING VET, ANYTHING HELPS. GOD BLESS." Sorry, it just sounded so dramatic to me.


Member: nikki
Location: philly
Date: 6/6/2003
Time: 5:46:55 PM

Comments

nikki alcoholic I owe my life to helping others again untill I could total surrender and admitt complete defeat.Ever sence sober.But we hurt lots of people. I did to family freinds employer etc. For about 9months in to aa I wanted to quit. AA well where do I go after AA mmmmmmm your guess is as good as mine??? bar. fat chance I knew I wasn't doing something . Everyone around me was happy, fearless ,loving, caring all of what I wanted and I found a women that showed me the way. She gave the key and she told me it's your choose now to open your future and be happy or drink your self into the gates of insanlyor death. to tell you the truth 1 the most inportant,2-3 your own conception and run with what ever you want your god to be.Then I said the little pray on pg 63 then your next step is vigorous action. Liquor was but symptom . getting down to cause and conditions. Is something every Alcoholics need to do. Step 5 pocket pride without holding nothing back. TELLING SOMEONE. step six asking god to remove every single one of are defects just for today. step7prayerg76. step 8-9 well we all ready made a list when taking inventory. now nine really simple if you what to victory over alcohol then when the time is right make amends. How about this just this thought brings us to step 10 pg 84 continue to watch for your defects.step11 simple there is a prayer page 86 first para. step 12 really simple having had a spiritual awaking as a result, helping others,practice these principles in all are affairs. which is 10,11,12 on a daily basic. is how I stay sober.And live life isgreatJUST A SUGGESTION!!


Member: Bikerbabe
Location: Hellishelping
Date: 6/6/2003
Time: 6:03:42 PM

Comments

I'll have sex with anyone whom i chose and just for the sake of having sex.. absolutely: if i feel i need it and the situation is attractable to both parties... and i'll not be "shamed" by anyone because of it.. however,, i wouldn't lie about my motives to the guy)) i have sat in a meeting with a guy who had sex addiction so bad... and there had to be 4 or 5 women in that meeting that he had boffed and even one guy... fat. old,, married,, you name it, but the guy had problems so what?,,, but get a load of the women,,,come on. you don't you think we should be capable of taking responsibility for it? i don't use sex to get respect..my respect comes from within, and i could care less who has hangups and thoughts of me being any less respectable because i had sex a few times.. thats thier problem,, not mine and guess who helped me out with that issue? The preditory 13th steppers in the program..(thanx boys) and one more thing,, what the hell is this 13th stepping crap!... ive not once run into a male or female 'so called "13th stepper that forced anyone into sex.. ever! The answer was simple yes or no...


Member: ED FERRELL
Location: nebraska
Date: 6/6/2003
Time: 8:14:04 PM

Comments

how to deal with depression


Member: JJ
Location: Motown
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 12:24:32 AM

Comments

Bikerperson, you are only kiddin yourself sweetness!! Sure, do what ya want in any category in life, but there are consequences to every action we all take, most especially sex. Nobody who sleeps with anyone who comes along for whatever reason is doing themselves any spiritual favor by giving a part of their soul away and then trying to convince themselves that they made their own decision and they have just as much self-respect as the woman who was abstinent for almost 2 years and walked into the meetings head held high. Nobody. Doesn't really matter if that's on page (69) in the BB or not as who in their right mind would revolve their sex conduct on that??? Nobody once again. Your right, we all have sex with whoever we want these days, it's not hard. What is hard is being a real woman, or man, and controlling your basic animal instincts until the appropriate time---marriage---imagine that................


Member: Jenny
Location: Birmingham, Al.
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 12:54:21 AM

Comments

Bikergirl, it's deeply saddening to see a human being whom so obviously lies to themselves. Nobody in their right mind could think a woman who sleeps with anyone for whatever reason has as much self-respect as the woman who was abstinent for 2 years and walks in with her head held high, NOBODY@! Do what ya want, but when you give away a part of your soul and think pg.69 of some stupid book written by an alcoholic is the ultimate authority on it, you're in sad shape darlin. Fool yourself all ya want, in the end it's empty and you get to pay the price all by yourself, so you are right about that, it's your choice. Anybody can sleep with anybody these days, it's not hard to do. What is hard is to be real woman of character, strength, and integrity, and that my sweet does not come with sleeping around. Peace to ya girl, I hope you find what your lookin for one day.,,,,,,,,,,


Member: Jenny
Location: Birmingham, Al.
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 12:54:33 AM

Comments

Bikergirl, it's deeply saddening to see a human being whom so obviously lies to themselves. Nobody in their right mind could think a woman who sleeps with anyone for whatever reason has as much self-respect as the woman who was abstinent for 2 years and walks in with her head held high, NOBODY@! Do what ya want, but when you give away a part of your soul and think pg.69 of some stupid book written by an alcoholic is the ultimate authority on it, you're in sad shape darlin. Fool yourself all ya want, in the end it's empty and you get to pay the price all by yourself, so you are right about that, it's your choice. Anybody can sleep with anybody these days, it's not hard to do. What is hard is to be real woman of character, strength, and integrity, and that my sweet does not come with sleeping around. Peace to ya girl, I hope you find what your lookin for one day.,,,,,,,,,,


Member: Ima Realist
Location: Everywhere
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 1:25:57 AM

Comments

People are people. Sex happens. i have almost never been able to be friends with a man because sooner or later they want to cross the line. i tell them up front i don't want to go there and they still want to cross the line. i find married men the worst letches at work and in AA. after being a good girl for part of my life and getting cheated on and lied to i gave up trusting men. Then i go to AA and they want me to give up sex for a year, i lasted 6 months! i have a sure fire formula that works for me. i now play the game according to MY rules. if i find a guy desirable to me and he comes on to me i tell him i don't date which is true. i like my own life without the hassles of being weighed down by a guys needs. if they keep asking me out i tell them all i want is sex and nothing else. then i lay out the rules of engagement. this is the fun part. they are to treat me with respect, never say the L word, don't try to control me, keep the tryst to themself, and at anytime i, or they, choose the game is over. whats love got to do with it? if both people are on the same page and follow the rules no one gets hurt. i dont feel shameful only empowered. i have the best of both worlds.


Member: Melanie
Location: Akron, Ohio, USA
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 2:32:43 AM

Comments

Hi, all! Just a thought for NANCY::: A.A. needs more women like you! Don't stop helping others of any sex, color, religion, etc. But what if you were to pay some special attention to finding new women to help? Could you go to a women's meeting, treatment center, hospital ward or jail each week as part of your routine? The number of female alcoholics is growing each day. Let's see if we can even up that 6:1 ratio! Blessings to you ALL!


Member: Bikerbabe
Location: shame shame double shame?
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 4:22:26 AM

Comments

oh yoo hoo ((Jenny: or should i call you deeply saddened?)).. so what's up with yu girl? whatcha talkin bout? sleep with anyone for any reason.. ((honey.. read slowly... i said "only if both parties consent and agree.. but did you notice what you said?>> and i quote "anyone for any reason"..you said it honey not me: well now you've let the cat out of the bag havn't you.. you bad girl!... To the realist... go woman go!! strength and empowerment to ya.. whoo hoo,, there may be some women here i can relate to after all... just when i was about to give up hope... thankyou god...


Member: Bikercuriousbabe
Location: ??????
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 4:30:29 AM

Comments

Just curious.. how the hell does "men stick with men and "women stick with women" work for gays and lesbo's...? like ahh.. do the gay men sign those little meeting cards for the women only?... and the lesbo's for the men only? im confused,,, but i guess if i was gay in aa; i would be even more so... AND ANOTHER THINGY..sex between two consenting adults is just that.. sex between two consenting adults.. if orgasm is the consequence well i say bring it on....incidentally i havn't had any for over 6 months...does anyone care? shoo ee...Bikerbabes live and kicking it for ya all...


Member: fdtytf
Location: ffh
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 9:21:25 AM

Comments

bikerchicky--where i'm from they have a name for women like you and i dont think i need say what it is. the jenny woman was right, but im sure youll do whatever ya want anyways. jhave at it as youll also be the one paying price one way or the ther later.


Member: eljrwqrj
Location: sfihdakgh
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 9:26:13 AM

Comments

realist--you too live in a dreamworld as only someone who is not thinking well can think sex "just happens." thats just downright stupid. obviously any number of choices have to be made and acted upon , especially if actually sober, before one male inserts one penis into one female's vagina or whatever the heck is going on.. anyways, that's just standard feminism that youve obviously bought and the exact opposite of true empwerment, but you are obviously going to believe the lie---thats whats sad///////////


Member: D-flat
Location: park river
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 11:56:18 AM

Comments

i care bikerbabe!! you wild and crazy kinda a chick.


Member: Carrie
Location: Los Angeles
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 1:06:21 PM

Comments

The lesbians and gays that i know tend to have the opposite sex for a sponcer to avoid having any innapropriate feelings. Falling in love, or being sexually attracted to your sponcer IS innapropriate and damaging to your recovery.


Member: Bikerbabe
Location: Reelin em in...
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 2:44:40 PM

Comments

oh oh..... ((somepeople have got sex'issues... eh? Mark..buddy is that you?.)) who ever you are.. check out your thinking... and read..slowly honey...niether me or" the realist are "talking about what "your gettin at ...so the cats out of the bag for yu two sweetheart...you said it not us)) if i were you i wouldn't break any of your church commitments for a while....>>>>>typical alkie behaviour...its called im having the thoughts>>>im the one thinking this way>>>so i'll project it onto others and blame them for it. Sorry : looks like its not going to work to well with bikerbabe.. maybe you could try the newcomer site...knock yourself out honey... I wouldn't bother with the realist... she's got it goin on... probably won't work with her either...i love ta fight... hey Dean,, you got your wife beater shirt on..you looking for a fight?... just bring it!.... ha ha.. cutie....


Member: Chris H.
Location: Fla.
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 4:57:21 PM

Comments

I'm Chris--I'm an alcoholic/addict/bulimic---I am doing the fourth step now for the third time. Each time it has been , but very frightening experience...However., this time I know the rewards at the other end( the 5th step) and am avle to look at my defects and mistakes without as much shame and blame...As they say, you must walk through your pain no around it...This time I am doin g the long version adn it will take mequite a while to do it. I appreciate what someone else said that A.A. is about balanced progress...not frantic action...AS I look back on what I have done , I realize that simply recognizing that I have a problem has been half the solution...ALready some of the defects have begun to change...I know I don't have to do it perfectly...I just have to do it...As others hve said..things will be revealed to me...SO much I haven't thought of comes up by just doing it...I am so greatful for the growth I have already experienced...I have been doing the 5th step with some one in my group slowly as I go along...The long version is so long that i figure I might forget the pain if I don't do the 5th while its fresh...Thanks for letting me share...


Member: Heather
Location: to Mich AAers
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 6:02:15 PM

Comments

Sorry to be off topic, but this is a help request. I've been corresponding w someone in Michigan who believes he has a problem w alcohol. He wants to go to the Sun 3:00 Madison Heights mtg and would like someone to go with if poss. Bill P, he noticed you on this board. Apparently you aren't far from him. If you can't, would you forward this info to someone who can? He doesn't want to post his email here but will use me as a go-between. My email is leahhmc1@hotmail.com. I can then give you his email and/or phone. Sorry to go off-topic.


Member: siobhan c.
Location: washington
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 7:41:11 PM

Comments

siobhan, alcoholic. my first 4th-step took about two weeks to write out. it was hard to write down, to actually see my life's events on paper. but that was long ago. i needed to see all of my actions and behaviors on paper so i could really understand who i was and what i had been doing to myself and my family. all i can say (sito) is keep working. write something down. there is plenty of time to go back and do another one. it is hard to remember EVERYTHING we have done, said, thought. it will come back to you, eventually, if you are honest enough to admit it. sobriety is a work in progress. you have to keep working on it if you want to keep it. that means going back and revisiting or reworking the steps. thanks for letting me share.


Member: dm
Location: Coraopolis, PA
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 8:22:51 PM

Comments

Devin, Alcoholic, I'm glad we are back on the topic that Sito brought up, although sex is a big part of the 4th step for many. Sito, I had trouble doing my 4th and I made sure that everyone knew about it. You are doing the right thing. My sponsor told me that I need to make sure that I did the first three steps (and I was sure that I did all 3), before I moved on to 4. Remember, if you bring the God of your understanding with you, you can not be afraid...even of yourself. As for Homegroups...I was told that one should believe that his homegroup is the best group in the world. If it is, the other stuff will work itself out. Thanks


Member: Barry c
Location: New Orleans, LA
Date: 6/7/2003
Time: 11:31:24 PM

Comments

Hi...I'm Barry...a recovering alcoholic. Step 4 is a "searching and fearless MORAL inventory" of ourselves. I never read Immoral in there. I have good parts and bad parts that I need to identify. My bad parts are the unsalable goods I need to identify so that my Higher Power will remove them. Thanks for letting me share :)


Member: Ima Realist
Location: Every where
Date: 6/8/2003
Time: 1:39:09 AM

Comments

Hey eljrwqrj, Realist here. i think your the one in dreamland. sex does happen, every day, everywhere, every second. The choices to be made are laid outin my rules of engagement and agreed upon before any insertion goes on. funny, ive never thought myself a feminist before? i thought this whole thing up all on my own . it does impower me to have great sexwith men im attracted to on my terms. why do the men have to make the "choices" all the time? like what lie will i tell her tonight to get out of the house and screw my new secretary? whatlies will it take to get in her pants... maybe ill tell her i love her and ill leave my wife, that usually works. as for believing the lie, i have from guys like you and you cant stand i am beating you at your own game. my game is much more fair. it is all agreed upon in advance. no lies or deceit involved. you have a small mind to match your small penis and or brain size. women like bikerbabe or me would never give you a second look. i was hoping there were some women here that think outside the box. I guess not, ladies this really works great!


Member: Erma G.
Location: Utica,N.Y.
Date: 6/8/2003
Time: 4:06:39 AM

Comments

I used to enjoy this site and the meeting.Lately I'm disghusted with it and for those of you who have respect for others in this forum I will miss your ESH.If this was a f2f meeting I would not attend anymore.So...bye.I will pray for you bikerbabe.