Member: Ted A
Location: Pensacola
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 8:43:20 AM

Comments

Would like to discuss the importance of willingness to change, acceptance and spiritual growth as neccessities for both the newcomer & the person with some period of sobriety behind them. I just celebrated my 4th birthday, and these three essentials came hard for me. I had to hit a bottom where the pain was so bad I had to either change or die. I'd appreciate hearing about your experiences.


Member: Pat H.
Location: Northern Va.
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 10:55:55 AM

Comments

If I had a nickle for every time I've repeated "acceptance is the amswer to all my problems" I wouldn't need to win a lottery!Of course,"coming to believe" that acceptance is the answer to all my problems is another matter. That takes work.Gaining positive reinforcement by going to meetings and being with people who are practicing acceptance;not just talking about it.I learned from the winners in the rooms and I believed them when they said it gets better with practice. A good bit of the serenity I enjoy today comes from acceptance.


Member: kimberley
Location: seattle
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 11:04:04 AM

Comments

kimberley alcholic, change is the touchstoe of all progress, we must be at least be willing to do so when it will benefit us as whole person, for me it means walaking away from those things that are not feeding me spirtually, i have 13 years in theese rooms and it is always life onlife terms if i cant twist it fix,or live with it than i change my attitude towards it, this is a daily progress,acceptance is easier said than done when it comes to emotions especially, when this happens to me i just ask for daily acceptance, so its not so overwhelming, thnaks for being here.


Member: Ali A.
Location: Michigan
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 11:18:34 AM

Comments

It seems that acceptance is both a mental & emotional process. Making a distinction between resignation and acceptance, is a key to emotional ease. This is how I work it today. To accept is not to live in resignation and dispair, rather it is to be present to and aware of the things that I cannot change in here and now. Beyond that, mental acceptance is finding a rational that fits reality, and adopting it. That is easy by comparison.


Member: L-RAY
Location: SCOTLAND
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 11:54:59 AM

Comments

Good subject((((Ted))))change was a must for me! when i came to the fellowship at first i stopped drinking! i only put the bottle down all my anger-fear- resentments-were still there until my sponser guided me on to the steps! then i knew i had to change once i found god and worked these steps into my life-i became willing to go to any lengths to change! and life is good today, regards L-RAY


Member: John K
Location: Philadelphia
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 12:35:00 PM

Comments

Hi all, John, alcoholic. I have had to be beaten into submission on many fronts. The reason for this is that I was so used to manipulating people and just playing God in general, that I never considered myself a human being--I was either above you or below you, never just the same. That's why people left me alone, because they saw what was going on, or at least suspected it. Changing from completely self-centered to somewhat other-centered has taken me a long time. My special twist is that I have always been resentful and afraid of women. In over 9 years of sobriety, this has been the recurring theme, the thing that just won't go away completely. On the one hand, the resentment (as far as I know) is nearly gone; much of the fear remains, however. The whole point of acceptance and willingness to change is that I see and accept myself for who I am and for who I am not, and do service to change from self-centered to other-centered. What I am, frankly, is a dork--short, glasses, used to be really skinny, nerdy without intelligence. This only heightens my anxiety, but doesn't change anything. In this instance, I need self-confidence, which for an alkie is usually disastrous. By happenstance, I am on meds for bipolar disorder, and have recently gained a lot of weight. I could simply "accept" this and do nothing, which would shorten my lifespan, prevent me from having sex, and thereby lead me to a drink; or I can join a gym (which I have done) and start working out...thereby gaining confidence, and adding another whole new, fun dimension to my life. The trick is in knowing what I can change (I can begin to seek humility instead of having it crammed down my throat), vs. what I cannot change (the physical and emotional truth about myself, my defects, etc., which only my HP can change according to the 7th Step.) Thanks.


Member: Chris H.
Location: Kansas
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 4:46:40 PM

Comments

Hi all, Chris H., alcoholic here. Ted, this is a wonderful topic! My biggest problem and first obstacle was indeed willingness to change. I wanted what you all have, but I wanted to keep drinking AND have it. It took me probably six or seven months to "accept" that something was going to have to change. I began praying for the willingness and things started getting better. Acceptance is something that is so tough....the Serenity Prayer comes into play here for me. Accepting the things I cannot change. I like the way Kimberley put that...if I can't do anything about it, I'd best learn to accept it! I'm working on the spiritual development as well because I know it's a piece of this recovery puzzle....for me anyway! Thanks again, Ted, for a great topic. Have a great week everyone.


Member: Frank S
Location: new york
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 6:57:08 PM

Comments

Frank, alcoholic, Good topic even though i have been sober for years.. Acceptance is very difficult for me.I have to look at myself and remember who I am as to what I was..Changes are not sudden and that I have to live and let live and accept the changes that God has put into my life..One day at a time" Thanks... Frank


Member: Annie Y
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 8:08:46 PM

Comments

Hi all, Annie Y her, grateful recovering alcoholic. Acceptance has played a huge part in my last three and a half years in reciovery! My husband died at home from lung cancer in 1999, my closest sobe brother died at his home and I took care of him also in 2000, my closest girlfriend in the progrm, we went through treatment together ten years ago, died from lung cancer a year ago this month, another close friend who used to sing Amaziong Grace with me in the hopes that I would some day find recovery, passed away two months agoand just two weeks ago my standard poodle died suddenly from bloat. The very fact the a Higher Power played the main role in my recovery, and gave me the stregnth to rebuild my life and earn back the love of my children is what gave me the faith to hold on during these times, and accept that life isn't always the way we plan it or want it. I have changed a lot through all this pain and loneliness but I have managed to find serenity and hope through the twelve steps of recovery. If I just don't drink I know my life will get better and it wasn't easy to accept all of this so I turned it over to my Higher Power and he continues to carry me on this tough road. Thanks for listening. Annie Y


Member: Cynthia H.
Location: Texas
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 8:30:47 PM

Comments

My name is Cynthia,and I am an acoholic,what I have learned is if I don't change and grow spirutially I will die. I was told when I got here that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results and when I looked back over the years of acohol abuse I realised that was my biggest problem, I needed to change! That has happened very slowly. In the BB it says Honesty, Open -mindedness and Honesty is HOW this program works. As one of our wise oldtimers told me you only need to open the door with the smallest amount of willingness.When I find myself getting back into selfwill I remember I only need to be willing to change and get myself out of the way to let my Higher Power work. When in hindsight I see this work it is a spiritual awakening all over again for me. Very Good subject Ted!!!! As was said last week there is a God and i'm not Him and you should all be grateful for that.Thanks for keeping me right sized. Good week to all!!!!!


Member: Lynne V
Location: Brigantine, NJ
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 9:24:02 PM

Comments

Lynne, a very grateful recovering alcholic, Ted, I'm glad you brought up the topic of acceptance. It bothered me early in my recovery that I knew I had a problem. I didn't know at that time that it was alcohol, I thought it was just severe anxiety and depression and physical exhaustion. I did however start lying about how much and how often I drank even to my husband. I made a phone call one day to a friend of my husband, who came to my house one day and turned down a drink. He never turned down a drink before and I noticed a calmness about him that I never saw before. I came out and asked him about it. He told me he stopped drinking but didn't go into details about anything, just that he had stopped drinking. I hadn't seen him in several months but I was vacationing at our house in Florida at the time and picked up the phone and called him in New Jersey. I didn't know at that time it was through the grace of God that I made that call. He was is a Physician and in the middle of office hours took my call immediately. It was like he knew why I was calling. I told him I thought I had a drinking problem . I tried to stop because I felt lousy and I couldn't do it. I forced a drink down and threw up immediately and that quickly I made another drink. He said if I "think" alcohol had become a problem then It probably had. He suggested I not have a drink for just one day and call him back if I had difficulty doing this. I was terrified! I couldn't do it. When I got home two weeks later he took me that same day to my first AA meeting. I felt like I totally didn't belong since I really wasn't sure that I was an alcoholic. After spending some time talking to me he told me there was a chair in the room with my name on it. He gave me literature, encouragement and most of all "his story". My story was a different one but it ended the same as his did. Sick, depressed, anxious, aggitated, the list goes on. I went to meetings every day for months and didn't drink. I felt the acceptance thing was gradual with me unlike others in the rooms who said that they had to either hit rock bottom before they came to an acceptance or got sick and tired of being sick and tired. I never spoke at the meetings in the beginning, although with every meeting I felt like I had more in common with these people in the room. That is why I say my acceptance was gradual. However, thanks to my sponsor and my higher power there was and still is a chair in the rooms with my name on it. I still don't know when my acceptance actually came to be but I'm so grateful that it did. Thank you for letting me share, and thanks for saving me a seat. By the way I now happily share at meetings and sit closer to the front of the room. 11 years and six months later I'm glad I made that call.


Member: marti h
Location: Portland
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 10:04:06 PM

Comments

Marti, alcholic/addict. Every morning for a very long time I read p 44 out of as bill sees it. It says,"Our very first problem is to accept our present circumstances as they are, ourselves as we are the the people about us as they are. This is to adopt a realistic humility without which no genuine advance can even begin. Again and again, we shall need to return to the unflattering point of departure. This is an exercise in acceptance that we can profitable practice ever day of our lives. Provided we strenuously avoid turning these realistic surveys of the facts of life into unrealistic alibis for apathy or defeatism, they can be the sure foundation upon which increased emotional health and therefore spiritual progress can be built." When I first read this, I thought it was going to be very easy. I have done it for many years and have found that it varies--some times easy and sometimes hard---but it has worked for me. I am so grateful for this program and the people who share. Marti


Member: Kim V
Location: kvaughn@madison.main.nc.us
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 10:17:37 PM

Comments

Kim here alcoholic. I found for years that my lack of acceptance was do to my control issues and due to fear and hating to be helpless and powerless as it usually comes with a lot of emotional pain. Now I find my acceptance to things I can not change and understanding that God's will and living life of life's terms is about experiencing this emotional pain with grace. It is almost like finding a embrace in the middle of that pain and that some how is some what comforting. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Harry K
Location: U.K
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 10:47:43 PM

Comments

Good topic (Ted). I didn't have the willingness to change when I first came into the rooms. But I did have the desperation. I sank to my loewst point in 40 years and I knew I had it. From the desperation came the nesessity. As I kept coming back (and around!)I realized how much better I had been feeling since not drinking and getting to know people in the fellowship. As that happened I became more and more willing to change because I saw that the changes were good. I was getting to be happy within myself. I think "acceptace" has become allot easier (sometimes!) after a few 24 hours in A.A. What I need to remind myself, is in the serenity prayer I am asking for the SERENITY to accept. And for me, that makes sence. The more serene I am, the better able I am to accept what I still believe to be the unacceptable. Not because I happen to like it or even agree with it, but the intuitive understanding that I have been given as the result of these 12 steps, dictates that I must. Of course if the situation or circumstances can be changed, I need to be responsible and couragious enough to try it. But again, I need to be be wise enough to know what can or cannot be changed and examine my own motives in wanting to do so. As for the "spiritual growth" that just comes for me as I continue to practice the principals and carry the message. Sometimes I have really bad days and my serenity level id down around my shoes, I can't accept anything and I just get trapped in old thoughts and behaviours. As long as I try to maintain my sobriety (there are hundreds of ways I do this)and not allow myself to get caught up in myself ("THIS WILL PASS" "LET GO AND LET GOD") I will be o.k. Thanks for letting me type.


Member: MOMAN
Location: WIS
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 11:11:02 PM

Comments

Good topic sir, can't add much to what already been said. I have to accept even the things i don't like. Had a boss i didn't like, was given a reminder by an wise oldtimer. It's not the boss i work for, but GOD, i should do my work to please GOD. I put in a hard days work, go home, meetings and at the end of the day, thank GOD i'm sober and have a job.


Member: matt w.
Location: dry shitties
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 11:35:01 PM

Comments

change is very important in life. if one is not willing to make a change then one is also not willing to live. we live in a world of change it is inevitable. change is apparent on a daily basis so we all must accept and live.


Member: smilely
Location: washington state
Date: 5/12/2003
Time: 2:52:27 AM

Comments

hello. hope everyone is doing well. i believe that you have to be mentally&emotinally be ready to accept your disease. thats what it took me. not listening to other peoples stories or going to the meetings. i had to look at my surroundings and realize that drinking wasnt doing anything for me. so now what i do is work alot and stay arms length from those who drink all the time.to have a relationship with myself. im also in a relationship with someone who doesnt drink. and is behind me one hundred and ten percent. i still have the cravings of course but i find something else to do with the time im away from work. look more into my priorites. like being here for my daughter and giving her my full attention and affection.also to learn how to deal with stress without alcohol. it takes time. got to get to know yourself all over again. thanks bye for now. everyone hang in there.


Member: robert j
Location: angel beach
Date: 5/12/2003
Time: 7:54:09 AM

Comments

Willingness to change..being flexible thats what they call it at work,the Serenity Prayer kicked ass when I first came in,and it continues to do so,I have grown a little rigid with just how much chaos I allow myself to be a part of...maybe I am getting a little too compfortable??


Member: Joe L.
Location: Phila, PA
Date: 5/12/2003
Time: 10:42:12 AM

Comments

TED A. - Thanks for the topic. You said a mouthful there buddy. I'm thinkin' I must not be willing to change, and therefore - I pay the price. I've been sober a long time. When I first came to A.A., I remember saying "I'd do anything not to feel like this anymore." I must be really sick because I do this to me. I have a hard time accepting people who don't fit into "my perfect mold." I haven't been to my home group for a long time. I'm very disillusioned with my church, and am trying to sort that out as well. So, I guess when you're upset with your home group and your church, you're in a lonely place. I guess I've cut myself off from a couple of good tools. I do call my sponsor and make other meetings and still go to church, I'm just in an unfamiliar place. I feel people in A.A. treat me differently, too. I guess, either you're in or you're out. Anyway, I'm thankful for this forum and appreciate your time. Sincerly, Joe L. - Phila, PA (LeachFtown@aol.com)


Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 5/12/2003
Time: 2:33:16 PM

Comments

HI Bill here. Alcoholic from Arizona. One meaning of the word acceptance is believing something to be true. I believed I was an alcoholic. If you don't believe that then go on out and try some controlled drinking. Tells us to do that in the program. The only willingness I needed was to give the program a fair shot. The only thing that was said to me at my first meeting was. "Bill, we can see that you are sick and we are going to get you well. All you have to do is change the way you think about alcohol. And we are going to teach you how to do that." My spiritual growth came as a result of the willingness to give the program a fair shot. My buddy moved in with me. Him sober one day me a week. We started into the program. That was over 21 years ago and we are both happy and sober today, I have never been into "creative recovery", never got into "intellectual recovery. I tried that once and the result was I found out one cannot get too dumb to work this program but one can darn sure get too smart to get it. Thanks, Love ya Bill


Member: adelea i.
Location: dresden, germany
Date: 5/12/2003
Time: 2:49:08 PM

Comments

adelea, alcoholic. one of my biggest struggles with acceptence, is that i think it implies not taking any action. acceptence is about action ,but in a different way. as the saying goes, "when life hands you lemons, make lemonade". i have to be willing to constantly make lemonade. that coudl be anything, like going to a meeting, working with other people, etc. it means Inertia. and, as i am doing something, this will create the ability to be objective and have changed my attitude. then i will be able to build my life around whatever has happened---death, divorce, children, job etc. i love the part in the Big Book where it talks about when life hands us something difficult (and it will) then we should "cheerfully capitalize it as an opportunity to demonstrate His omnipotence". acceptence without belief in something outside of myself seems dismal. on another note, speaking of acceptence, i live over seas, and do not speak the language enough to go to the local meetings regularly. i have started an english speaking one, but so far, i am the only attendee. i have been struggling lately with how much i miss the fellowhip, sponosorship and in general physically interacting with other alcoholics. what online resources are there for people who want to be involved? i read an article this month in The Grapevine about a woman who has found a wonderful fellowship via the internet, and i woudl like to have that too...have a beautiful day!


Member: Craig L (Dogmanor@yahoo.com)
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Date: 5/12/2003
Time: 3:38:58 PM

Comments

Craig here, another REAL alcoholic (page 21). I thought I needed to drink because I found the situation of my live intolerable. In my opinion God had turned away from me. My goal was suicide and every day I prayed for the courage to follow through. Then I would drink more to blot out the world and settle back into the bliss of oblivian. At the end there was no bliss, only chaos. Alcohol occupied every conscious moment. As others have said, it was only in complete surrender to the fact I was an alcoholic, that I became willing to practice some humility. The first time I honestly went through the steps with my sponsor, was the first time I experienced true Peace. In that Peace I found a willingness to accept many things. I found God was there all along. Today, whenever I find myself uncomfortable, it is always because of ego bloat. I may ask God, for the willingness to let go (step 6), but once the willingness is in place, the resulting Peace always follows.


Member: lisa f
Location: KY
Date: 5/12/2003
Time: 4:16:01 PM

Comments

hi, all. i'm 33 and have been seriously struggling with this disease for 3 yrs. in that time, i have accrued a lot of sober time, but can't seem to string more than 6 mos. or so of it together in succession. i have faith that i will get it right one day, though, as i don't plan to give up. i have all the tools that AA and my wonderful sponsor have given me, along with God and a slew of terrific therapists (i'm also bipolar), it's just a matter of me putting it all to good use. please pray for me. like smiley said earlier, and linking it back to the topic at hand, i believe i've had real trouble accepting i'm an alcoholic until now.


Member: joe s.
Location: Michigan Rezdog
Date: 5/12/2003
Time: 5:01:21 PM

Comments

not to be a 12 step adventist, however, step zero comes to mind. "if you want what we have (part a) and are willing to go to any lengths to get it (part b), then you are ready to take centain steps." no wonder i couldn't work first step honesty. step zero (part a and b) were concepts too deep to comprehend. grateful to have a daily reprieve. miigwetch!


Member: Mark M.
Location: Schenectady, NY
Date: 5/12/2003
Time: 7:32:14 PM

Comments

Mark, alcoholic. I'll tell you, it's almost hilarious that I'm for the very first time checking out AA on-line and this is the topic. I've been sober almost 8 years and I've gone through some long, deep periods of acrimony towards the whole of the AA culture in general and it's basically been because of exactly what Ted A. from Pensacola brought up! Funnily enough also Ted, if you're reading this, know I'm originally from Fort Walton Beach and just displaced up here in the frigid north country! Anyways, the point is this: I have found the generally accepted and espoused theory behind AA to be "just don't drink and that's ALL that matters!" What a load of crap!!! I don't know if everyone just skips the line on page 82 of the BB that states, "We feel a man is Unthinking when he says that sobriety is enough!" Maybe peolpe just can't handle it, I don't know, but what I do know is this -- God and spiritual growth are not only the blatantly obvious keys to not only long-term sobriety, but all of life's problems and very, very FEW "old-timers" have no clue as all I ever seem to hear in meetings is the standard, canned AA rhetoric of "just don't drink, that's ALL that matters!!!" Then they worsen the situation by espousing the same old crap as they intrepret it and they pass on the same garbage to the newcomer and thus all are affected, or should I say INfected??!! I understand it is easy for them to get lost in the shuffle as we in AA tend to think them "O.K." simply because they haven't had a drink for a period of time. The question then has become for me this, do I accept that or do I work to change it? I vehemently disagree with the person who was paraphrasing the old pg.449 ideology about acceptance, that is 100% not only unthinking, but a NON-action as well!! How do I know if I can not change something if I don't TRY and actually DO SOMETHING to affect change while at the same time not expecting the results that I desire, but leaving that up to GOD!! After all, that is His job, not mine!!! God knows my head hurts from all the walls I've beat it up against in the last several years, but you know what? I wouldn't trade those little bumps for the world!!! I Don't accept ANYTHING until I've taken the action necessary to invoke the desired change, and then if doesn't work, well, that was the way God intended, but once again--I would have never known if I didn't try!! Peace and Blessings and maybe I'll run into you at a beach meeting when I'm home visiting as I often "slip" over to Pensacola.


Member: carlc
Location: Texas
Date: 5/12/2003
Time: 10:45:36 PM

Comments

I have no idea why we spend hours and hours talking about acceptance and arguing about page 449 which is a bunch of nonsense the serenity prayer is so self expanatory it is not even funny action and dependcnce on a higher power is the answer to all my problems if you accept the fact your wife is sleeping with your sponsor and dont get a divorce lawyer you dont belong in aa you belong in the laughing academy we have clear cut directions in our book but yet we dance all around this program with a bunch of nonsense like fake it till you make it dont leave before the miracle happens let us love you until you can learn to love yourself and on and on and on dont drink go to meetings and call your sponsor will get you two things drunk or dead we read every day these are the steps that we took not these are the steps that we work people are dying every day in the rooms of aa because we are talking endlessly about the problem and not the solution and that being Trust God clean house and give freely i have no idea what all this hiring and firing and i love my sponsor is all about the book says strenous work on alcoholic with another was vital to permanent sobriety


Member: Ron L
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 5/12/2003
Time: 11:47:22 PM

Comments

Ron L alcoholic Here we go again. carlc Getting on everyones case about the way they practice the program useing little sayings that hurt no one. yet he sees nothing wrong with saying people are dying every day in the A.A. clubrooms Well carlc In my 30 years of sobriety and going to meetings 3-4 times a week I have never seen one dead person in a clubroom. Where do you come up with this crap? people dying every day in our clubrooms What in hell is that suppose to mean?


Member: Crispy
Location: AA Land
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 12:03:05 AM

Comments

Member: carlc Location: Texas Date: 5/12/2003 Time: 10:45:36 PM Comments I have no idea why we spend hours and hours talking about acceptance Because acceptance is the answer! Try using it sometime.


Member: L.W.R
Location: Canada
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 12:56:28 AM

Comments

thanx for all your shares everyone... i guess i got lucky cause i'm no longer confused about acceptance.. (or should i say, i no longer use it to avoid making the changes i need to make) The acceptance statement in the big book has brought me so much serenity and saved my bacon so many times. It was A hard to be where nothing seemed to make a difference, and i believe we all have been there a time or two.. i don't want to be so hard on people anymore, for gosh sakes, some of us just don't have the courage to experience the feelings that come when we look within, and so we stay dry. The world is full of these one's, and i believe that's as it should be.. (ACCEPTANCE) LOL LOTS OF LOVE.


Member: carlc
Location: TEXAS
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 1:23:32 AM

Comments

Ron L these little saysings that you say hurt no one is the the real crap because people listen this shit go out and drink and for us to drink is to die the reason i know this to be true is because i expierenced it myself eight years in the program without a drink i was restless irratable and disconten and wanted to take my own life because i went from meeting to meeting to meeting and listened to all this pretty shit and wanted to take my own life because i had taken no action the action being the steps another misconception in aa is that oldtmers have the answer i dont care if a person has been dry for 199 years that does not mean your sober because the word sober means being of sound mind oldtimers that have not done this process are the ones spreading all this deception because it is deception if nothing changes nothing changes


Member: shayla
Location: MA
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 2:41:15 AM

Comments

I am a new-comer and I have no idea what to expect. I definatly have a desire to stop drinking, I am only 21 and I have been drinking heavly for a number of years. I am so scared to stop, I have not attended any meetings because I am scared to go, I am so young and I look it. But I know I definatly have a problem, but I am so scared to go to a "young persons" meeting, what if I see someone I know. I want help and I need it. Something stops me though, I know everyone here understands though. An alcoholic is an alcoholic and age has nothing to do with it, heck, I feel as though I'm fifty and I look like I'm ten. However, my whole life is intact, but alcohol has mental effects that are of a different nature and I want to be FREE. I want to let go of this (alcohol) but it so hard. If anyone has any advise for me please help!!!


Member: shayla
Location: MA
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 2:52:17 AM

Comments

I know I am re-posting but I was just reading a more on this disscusion and I see that many of you have been sober for years (oh how I wish I was there) but how do u feel now (those of u) is it worth it. Is life "pure" now like I imagine it? What have u gained is it all I imagined? I mean I spend my days sober, but all I think about is night, when I can drink. However, when I try to quit I can't get past "these" nights. How do u do it, it's so hard. I get insomnia, I feel as though I am lacking excitement. What do u do, please tell me.!!!


Member: liz s.
Location: paris
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 3:45:00 AM

Comments

shayla, hang in there. i'm liz, alchoholic. acceptance (not resignation, good point earlier on) is the key for me and it didn't come easily. i had to practice it like a muscle, exercise it daily, and repeat the serenity prayer nine hundred times per day if i had/have to in order to figure out what i can change (me, my attitudes, my actions) and what i cannot (other folk, places, things) - shayla: i also, in early sobriety, wondered where my "excitement" would come from and then i thought it through and realized that dancing on bartops and going home with married strangers and feeling like crap the next morning and getting no sleep other than a 40 minute vodka coma and making enemies out of my friends and friends out of enemies was about all the excitement i didn't want or need anymore. my whole changed when i stopped drinking. my excitement now comes (still, after all this time) of waking up with the sun, not sick, enjoying a more or less productive day, going to bed early, eating dinner at a decent hour as opposed to midnight. no longer living like the vampire i was, at night, i've become human again, living in the day. eventually, you'll sleep, trust me on this. because i didn't for my first three months and then i did, just fine. anyway, acceptance is a fine subject, one i try to bring into my life on a daily basis because this non active drunk, if left to her own devices, will indeed become convinced she's God, controlling the universe and that is a really frustrating place to be. i ask for help from trusted sober pals, a sponsor, go to meetings, talk to the invisible to help me accomplish the impossible. happy 24 to all, -


Member: L-RAY
Location: SCOTLAND
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 4:41:10 AM

Comments

((((Shyla)))) just hang in there, get to meetings -get phone numbers- get into the middle of the bed were it is warm and safe! not sleeping is apart of getting sober-it took me nearly 2 years to get my sleeping pattern right even to-day some 16+ years later i still can have a bad night, so you are not alone anymore! i used to go for long walks when i first got sober id meet people and it passed the time-it does get easier but you have to hang in there -so you be safe and if your ever over in the promised land look me up lol As regards sayings_ i suppose when i first got here i knew jack shit! and some of the sayings were simple enough to get my head round and they were good for me at that time of my recovery i wasnt able to take anything in my head as it was in a muddle! i got a sponser and with my head clear now i got on this program-and started to live! i feel these sayings wernt put there to fill in spaces, i know it was good for me to hear "that iwas no longer alone" but everybody has a right to there opinion! regards L-RAY


Member: Norm F
Location: SC
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 11:44:02 AM

Comments

There are two choices, accept spiritual principals that allows one to live life on life's terms or continue to live a life that sucks until the bitter end. As for me I'm not settling for anything less than happy, joyous and free. People who find this website know where the help is. It's their choice to drink of the "water of life" sort of speaking. You can lead the horse to water.......... For you new people, get to a meeting and don't drink today. For us that have been around awhile, get to a meeting and don't drink. Love you and praying for you.


Member: Suzyqnj
Location: NJ
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 11:48:50 AM

Comments

JOHN K, JOE L, MARK M, AND CARLC, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. I just had my four year anniversary just like Ted. Struggling with acceptance and willingness. Sober and discontent, unhappy and depressed. It sucks to be here. Struggling with just sobriety being enough. Sure there are days that thats as good as it gets, but days and days on end of this will get me drunk. INTO ACTION! Someone at a metting recently brought up the old saying of cutting the roots off my ass. What a concept! The Steps are the key. Feeling left out, unhappy with my church, sick of all the happy joyous and free other people have and I don't. Duh, I have to be willing to get back to the steps. I have to accept on a daily basis that I am an alcoholic and that's OK. More than anything I have to learn about MY alcoholism and take responsibilty for my own recovery. Only I can take these steps, noone is going to do it for me. I am resposible for my own happiness, I cannot rely on people, they sometimes fail me. So if I am not relying on God, I better do something about it. I need to hear about others being discontent with the program and being unhappy in their lives. Thank God I am not alone. I need to hear it all the good the bad and the ugly! Sue


Member: Melissa B
Location: Canada
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 1:23:40 PM

Comments

I'm guessing that the oldtimers say 'don't drink and go to meetings' because that's where it all starts. I can complicate things and intellectualize and lap up negativity very adeptly, but the acid test is that these things just don't work for me any longer. Which is not to say they won't work for another person, just that they don't work for me. I didn't know this stuff before. I also didn't know that my life is not a universal experience. You guys are all having your own lives and doing or not doing what works for you. For myself, acceptance of reality is a very good starting point for comfort in my own skin and way, WAY better relationships with the people in my life. Acceptance and tolerance seem to make for an easier life and I'm all for an easier life, the old one was way too much work!


Member: thor
Location: tri-cities
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 2:45:33 PM

Comments

My willingness to change came from a long line of dificulties within my life because of my use and from the newest eddition to my family, my daughter. I had stopped using about a year before my daughter was born and have been continuing on that path since. I have found that having a child not only changes your life but it changes your perspective on what is important.


Member: David S.
Location: San Diego
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 4:01:15 PM

Comments

i feel change is of upmost importance to my recovery in that the old patterns can not continue. in the past i could not concieve of doing anything without alchol at my side to make the event or whatever fun or interesting. this is a learned pattern from my dad who thought that you could not have fun unless alchol was involved. this does not explain away my own abuse only what i saw my father do i thought was the thing to do. now i can do things without booze, have more fun, and actually remember what i did, and not wake-up sick. what a joy. God bless all.


Member: Lisa S
Location: Germany
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 4:46:36 PM

Comments

One of the things I need to ask myself concerning acceptance when I'm dealing with people, places or situations is if I'm trying to force my ideas, wants or wishes on others. I notice for myself that people start pissing me off when they don't do what I think they should be doing. I need to watch that I don't cross over into someone elses boundries and become mad because they're not giving me what I want or making the decisions I think they should. On page 449 it states, "Until I could accept my alcoholism, I could not stay sober." For me, I believe that is because I was still in denial. I still had that insanity that perhaps I could take another drink. When we talk about the Serenity Prayer, "the courage to change" it states on page 451 that I should change myself and learn to accept (person) as they are. One of my biggest problems was always looking out at others and perhaps their faults than at myself and my faults. Saying that, when it concerns situations I am a believer in doing the footwork, all of it and then leaving the results to God. To give you an example, one time we wanted to stay where we were living but my husband was up for a transfer. He put in for an extention and it was turned down. I told him to try another avenue and that didn't work, then another and still it was denied. Finally, something came through. If he had just given up after the first time we never would have been able to stay where we were at. I think people who just want to chalk things up to "well it must be God's will" are using it as an excuse not to make decisions and deal with life's situations, but indecision is also a decison I guess. If my husband had tried everything possible and then it was still a no go, then I could accept that we had done our part and left. As far as the willingness to change. Sometimes, I still need to get to that point where I'm uncomfortable enough to become willing to do those things I need to do in order to grow. The time difference has gotten shorter, though, the longer I stay sober. Spiritual growth is an important aspect of my recovery today and need to keep in contact with God as I understand Him on a daily basis. I find when I start slipping on this, my attitude starts changing and not for the better. You would be surprised how many people I start noticing who don't know how to drive or do anything else right. For Shayla, please get to a meeting. You can look for a young peoples meeting, there's quite a bit, but I was about 23 when I got sober. It didn't bother me to be with people who were older, I was just glad I had a place to go. When I first stopped, I thought I would literally explode. Carlc, I will tell you that you sound like you're at a place I was some time ago. At the time I couldn't tell you I was there because I couldn't see it, but I can tell you now. That place is the "dry drunk." It's a miserable place to be. I needed to get back to the basics of this program and work the steps. I stayed in this program because I wanted a better life, physically, mentally and spriritually. When I find that people and things (especially this program)are making me that angry I need to go back to Step 1. For Adelea, I'm in Germany also and I suggest you go to the AA Europe website for meetings. There quite a few meetings and events going on. I needed to get over the "it's not like the States" and be happy I have any meeting to go to.


Member: leo
Location: new mexico
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 5:36:47 PM

Comments

thank you all for sharing and i absolutly agree that action is what saved my life a agree with norm life sucks with just not drinking the steps are the most important things in the program l love the big book and i love God and i love alcoholics because thats what i am God bless you all


Member: Harry K
Location: UK
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 8:49:52 PM

Comments

Interesting. What I see from allot of posts only tells me that there are quite a few out there beating on their chests expousing the time they have sober but not at all serene! Of course sobriety isn't enough when we criticise others, criticise the very fellowship that gave us our sobriety and bitch about slogans and "crap" we hear in the rooms. As for myself, theres allot I don't particularly agree with either, but I'm not going to judge anyone who finds it helpful for them. I admitted along time ago my life was unmanagable. My sobriety doesn't give me the right to believe that I'm any better at managing anyone elses. That, in fact, IS up to GOD. NOT ME! But just an observation....How many people with a year or two (or ANYONE) who has worked all twelve steps continue to work the last three on a daily basis? I ask only from my own personal experience. I had 3 years of continuing sobriety but was as miserable and intolerant as some of you who've shared here. It was only when I started to work the last three "maintenance" steps the best that I can at each day did my world begin to improve. That's when I really began to understand the GOD of my understanding and what I'm suppossed to do each day. It's really mundane shit like "take a shower, get dressed and go to work and be responsible". When I do that then my GOD gives me further directions. To date, he has not told me that I am "qualified" or smart enough to know whats good for other people. (though my ego resists that) For anyone new coming on to this site let me remind you that this IS a programme of atraction, but we are still alcoholics and can make a fuss and make something ugly and dark. Hang in there and in closing I will use one slogan that did help me ..."DON'T QUIT BEFORE THE MIRACLE HAPPENS!" But even more important, don't quit AFTER the miracle happens! Even in adversity I'm grateful for all I've read here. It reminds me whats attractive and what isn't. Thanks for letting me type again!


Member: D-Flat
Location: ND
Date: 5/13/2003
Time: 10:32:53 PM

Comments

Thanks Harry, I agree, What a great topic I have heard people commenting about 449 in the BB sinse i sobered up in 93, and when I read it I thought it made alot of sense, just like the first 164 pages in the book. when i went through them with my friend and worked the steps my life changed for the better, no flashes of light, but a real feeling that I didnt have to try and control anything or anyone anymore, and started to feel comfortable in my skin, I still try daily to continue that with that. and I get new lessons every day from my HP and somtimes there hard for me to accept and somtimes the gratitude brings me to tears.thanks for letting me Type :)


Member: Mark M.
Location: New York
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 12:05:17 AM

Comments

Mark alcoholic back. Wow, this is great, I've gotten a little newfound enthusiasm for the program after checking out this site the last few days--Good stuff!!! Unfortunately it's basically about the same standard hollow rhetoric coming from people who just don't drink and go to meetings and then bitch that you're judging them when they are in fact the very one's judging you!! I find it almost comical as newcomers at least have somewhat of an excuse, but people with some time without drinking are just like the paragraph on pg. 82 of the BB where the farmer comes out of the cellar after the cyclone and thinks everything is great now that the storm is over. My favorite line though is the one I already mentioned yesterday, it's in the same paragraph and basically "JUDGES" one as being STUPID to espouse the crap that the vast majority of people just parrot at meetings. This website is just a little easier to say things because you don't see the people. The point though is that newcomers are not only not the most important people in the rooms, the old-timers are because they are the ones whom should be "passing it on!" They are all right, passing along mostly crap!! You guys are beating Carl C. up and he had some very valid points!!! Keep at it Carl, buddy, you're not alone out there working for AA reform to it's historical context and true meaning! Anyone who thinks AA is just about not drinking is an idiot and not only unthinking, but must not read their own material that they espouse as being Gospel. We ALL judge others and if you don't you're a fool as we could never know who the "winners" were if we didn't!! Some, like me, are just more HONEST about it and that's what the program is all about--Honesty to myself and God as in the end it's not between me and anyone else anyways so I can assure you that my spiritual life is much, much deeper than the oversimplistic steps! They come from the REAL BIG BOOK in case you people don't know your history, check it out for yourself. O.K. enough, let's see if this generates a response as the main reason I go to meetings at all anymore is to provoke thought. Peace and Blessings to All!!


Member: Ron L.
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 12:44:20 AM

Comments

Ron. L. Alcoholic, Funny thing you know, I sobered up way up in northern Canada yes 30 years ago. back then and up there we never talked about acceptance, the serenity prayer was the in thing. Staying sober back then was read the big book, do the steps, keep an open mind, A higher power was very important but it was not pushed.....The fellowship in A.A. was second to none... My wife who sobered up in southern Canada has 20 years sober and a program that is in complete contrast to what I practice. I am in awe as she heads to the biffy every morning with a stack of A.A. books doing her reading and meditations, she has never tried to change my program and I would never try to change hers. I think the differance between her and I is She is very GOD conscious. I do believe but I am more.....Love my fellow man and carry the messege. I love going to meetings. Its not that important to her. We practice our programs and Im 66 years old, and am head over heals in love with her


Member: ben
Location: there
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 12:45:39 AM

Comments

Shayla, go to meetings please, the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. But try not to. Let the old guys kid you and the old gals love you. They will love you well.


Member: carlc
Location: san antonio texas
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 4:19:22 AM

Comments

Thank you mark and i absolutly agree with you on where the big book came from Bill said in as Bill sees it that aa was but a spiritual kindergarten aa is not about drinking or stopping drinking it is about finding a power greater than my self my problem was not alcohol or cocaine or marijuana or shaving lotion or vanilla extract or scope or uppers and downers although i put all those things in my system my problem was me this spiritual malady that centers in my mind it was always me me me and me selfishness and selfcenterdness that was the root of my problem i ma not much but that is all i thought about today as i travel this spiritual journey i am seeking to have a relationship with my creator as step 11 indicates instead of seeking his blessing i am seeking him and it is like the book says a priceless gift today i am happy joyous and free the word happy meaning content the word joyous meaning fortunate and free that word meaning not in bondage but that all came about after i did the process and continue on daily basis to the best of my willingness thank all and God Bless


Member: T-Bone
Location: S. Fl
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 6:20:25 AM

Comments

"Acceptance", you accept the fact that you are an alcoholic or you don't. If you do, DON'T DRINK. If you don't accept that your an alcoholic then " Rock on" we'll see you later! Have a great 24!


Member: Cec H
Location: Cowtown
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 6:21:28 AM

Comments

Hi all Cec H alkie here. Shaylay probable wonn't help you any, but I came around the program when I was 21, got into the program when I was 23. Spent 2 years trying everything I could to prove I wasn't one of them. But the sons of bitchs where right. I was an alcoholic. Still am, I just donn't drink. But that's only thanks to this program and a God of my understanding. And it ain't JC and the Boys or the Dalie Lama. It' just this something that let's me know that everything will be OK if I let it. And if you run into somebody you know at a Meeting, shit girl their there for the same reason you are to get and stay sober. Besides it was a blast from the past when one of my drinking pals soberred up. It gave me somebody to talk to who knew how bad I had been and how far I had come. Another 24 to go please and have one for yourself.


Member: Mike
Location: SE
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 10:27:02 AM

Comments

CarlC, you are much more appealing when you talk about your sobriety than when you are spouting that venom as in your first writing this week. We all wish to change from the drunks we were(are)to a person who can smile at themselves every once in awhile. AA has proven to be a good vehicle to get from point A to point B. Not all of us travel that path in the same way or in the same time frame. I hope that all of us are responsible and that each one gets to point B and to the point where they can smile at themselves. That is our primary purpose and to be respectful of that with humility and grace is an aim I am striving for. What can I do to be of service to God and my fellow man is a prayer I say everyday. That has worked for sometime. Yours in the fellowship of the Spirit.


Member: Stephanie
Location: Chicago
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 11:31:32 AM

Comments

Stephanie, alcoholic. One thing I have to do is latch onto other *recovering* people. Not people who are just going to meetings, but people who are reaching and growing. It helps me to be around people who have been sober a long time and still work the steps with honesty, open-mindedness and willingness. They can be hard to find but they're out there. They keep me focused on willingness to change and spiritual growth. They teach me how it's done. I also need to work with new people, but detach from the ones who don't want or aren't ready to recover. (I'll always take a call or take them to a meeting, but don't invest myself in them.) They help me with acceptance of who I am, by seeing myself in them. Finally (and most important), I need to work the 11th Step and learn to lean on the love of my HP. If I believe and know that His will, not mine, is the goal, then acceptance comes easier and I lose my fear of change. Spiritual growth is easy and fun if I'm not all wrapped up in my ego. Thank God I have a desire to be sober and be at a meeting today.


Member: RB
Location: IN
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 11:37:40 AM

Comments

In my 15th year of sobriety I HAVE fOUND OUT THAT i NEED hELP FROM OTHERS.


Member: tb
Location: In.
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 11:49:45 AM

Comments

I believe that willingness and acceptance is how it works. I have been sober for a few 24 hrs. I have hit many bottoms but I believe I in the power of pray,and I've seen miracles when people have changed their lifes by surrending to their Higher Power.


Member: EG
Location: IN
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 12:11:11 PM

Comments

I have had to pay for a three dui"s they were very costly,and i received a 10 year driving suspention.


Member: leo
Location: new mexico
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 12:14:13 PM

Comments

I am with anyone who talks about being recovered God and the Big Book, I have seen too many people die of this illness in and out of the rooms of alcoholics anoymous we are on a life and death errand here AA is all about finding a power greater than yourself which will solve your problem


Member: D.E.L.
Location: in.
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 12:35:21 PM

Comments

Talk about hitting bottom! I had to lose a fifteen year marriage along with three children, a house, my dream job,and just my overall way clean "christian" way of living. I guess I had to lose everthing valuable to me before I actually hit "heavy hard rock bottom". I have been sober for about 28 months now, so I guess to answer the question I had to get to the point of no return and realize the nly way out of my situation was "Jesus" the only higher power for me!!!!!


Member: BIKERBABE
Location: hellishelping
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 12:37:41 PM

Comments

I love to comment on other peoples comments, it makes me feel so good to "one-up" another alcoholic. And i can be even nastier because its online. I can expose how superior i am to everyone else and thus in my own backwards way, try to obtain some much needed self esteem. I wonder if i'll have grown spiritually from it, will i feel badly when the light finally comes on? or will i just carry on and never look within? I love judging other alkies, in fact that's why i love to post the most" is to get in a dig or two at someone elses program... isn't life grand when your still angry?


Member: BIKERBABE
Location: hellishelping
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 12:38:10 PM

Comments

I love to comment on other peoples comments, it makes me feel so good to "one-up" another alcoholic. And i can be even nastier because its online. I can expose how superior i am to everyone else and thus in my own backwards way, try to obtain some much needed self esteem. I wonder if i'll have grown spiritually from it, will i feel badly when the light finally comes on? or will i just carry on and never look within? I love judging other alkies, in fact that's why i love to post the most" is to get in a dig or two at someone elses program... isn't life grand when your still angry?


Member: mike
Location: south
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 1:52:34 PM

Comments

Yo, Bikerbabe. Follow the clearcut directions and only click ONCE!


Member: Mark M.
Location: New York
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 2:00:02 PM

Comments

Mark alcoholic, one more time! I just wanted to tell Ron L. from Canada that I truly appreciate him sharing that about his life and that IS what TRUE acceptance is!! An absolutely beautiful love story told in two paragraphs, almost made me cry! At the same time though, feelings are not really important, but that is nonetheless very moving and appreciated, thanks for sharing, and tell your wife God Bless as well!!


Member: Mark M.
Location: Albany, New York
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 2:10:34 PM

Comments

Mark alcoholic AGAIN!! I just got a good, hearty laugh out of BikerBabe, that's funny!!! But I love what Carl C. and Mike and D.E.L. said as well. This is really good stuff!! Where else can I laugh, cry, and get upset and then fuzzy all within the span of 5 minutes??!! Love ya guys, I may make this a regular thing!!!


Member: Lisa
Location: Germany
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 2:38:06 PM

Comments

For those who are thinking that some of us are judging others here in this forum let me say this, when I got into this program I had enough people in my life who were all too willing to indulge me in my negative thinking. What I need in my life today are friends who are willing to step in there and say things such as, "You know Lisa, your thinking pattern lately doesn't seem too clear" or "The last few times you spoke at a meeting you seemed to be in a really bad place." Even today, I know whom to speak to when I just want to gripe and whom to speak to when I want to move from my unhealthy thinking to healthier thinking. I keep coming back to this program because I want to get better. I don't want to be filled with bitterness and anger or just crazy thinking. I believe if someone would have told me at the time that I was in a dry drunk, I would not have stayed there as long and suffered as I did. Not knowing any of you, I can still say I love you as alcoholics and hope that when the day comes (it will) when my writing becomes filled with much more negatives than positives, you will love me enough to point it out to me. I will also say this, I have lived in countries where local meetings are conducted by going around the room and sharing your weekly problems. There was no talk of recovery or how we become healthier. I don't want that kind of sobriety. I could have stayed at the bar. This program is alot more than just staying sober because if I don't change me and my stinking thinking and behaviors I will eventually drink again. Thanks for being there.


Member: tim
Location: buktoo
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 6:26:14 PM

Comments

wow bikerbabe, hahahahahahaha, whats with these guys coming on here all angry that noone is doing the program there way, give me a break, before i sobered up i to had to ALWAYS be better than or less than


Member: BIKERBABE
Location: Canada
Date: 5/14/2003
Time: 11:23:52 PM

Comments

yo mike....... i clicked twice on purpose.... but thanx for the hint. another sober 24 to ya. And one day soon i'll part with my secret here on the pot.. it'll be interesting... stay tuned. loads of lovin for ya all.


Member: bikerbabe
Location: again
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 1:14:07 AM

Comments

agreed timbucktoo... nice name honey)))... and welcome mark, really glad you got a chuckle outta that....it is funny, ((if you cant' laugh around the motley crue of alkies, then nothins funny huh? rule 62...


Member: jcarlc
Location: texas
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 2:15:19 AM

Comments

people actualy think i care if they drink or not if you want to drink have at it it is none of my business thatis the business of the MOST HIGH what gets me is all these people running around saying they are sober and in the very nest breath spew out a lot of bullshit and then acuse me of being judgemental i will never lie to another alcholic and i wont bullshit him either the truth is the truth and you cannot dance around it a good friend of mine told me that what people say about me and what they think about me is none of my business the worst prison you can live in is the prison of what people think if you want to jack around in the program if you want to drink whatever you want to do have at it the book says if our behavior continues to harm other people we are sure to drink and for us to drink is to die so go for it good luck


Member: GOD
Location: HEAVEN
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 4:35:23 AM

Comments

PEOPLE, Lets get back to the topic, Dr. BOB and BILL W. are watching.


Member: Erma G.
Location: Utica
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 7:02:41 AM

Comments

Some of us are banging our spoons much too loudly on the highchair tray.Luckily I can see it in myself because I have learned to recognize it in you.That's how we get and stay sober...with each other..the good the bad and the ugly.If I can't learn what I want to be when I grow up from you,I can learn what I don't want to be.Love AA controversy..gets my blood pumping and makes me think.Keep coming back.


Member: PappyPaw
Location: Michigan
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 11:04:07 AM

Comments

God Bill and Bob are also human.


Member: Devil
Location: Hell
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 11:04:54 AM

Comments

Yo, bikerbabe. Are part of the illuminati or what??? Not to mention that the instructions say this isn't a chat room, but God in Heaven did ask us to get back on the didn't He?? By the way, what was the topic???


Member: Devil
Location: Hell
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 11:05:11 AM

Comments

Yo, bikerbabe. Are you part of the illuminati or what??? Not to mention that the instructions say this isn't a chat room, but God in Heaven did ask us to get back on the didn't He?? By the way, what was the topic???


Member: Lucifer
Location: Earth
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 11:06:47 AM

Comments

Yo, bikerbabe. Are you part of the illuminati or what??? Not to mention that the instructions say this isn't a chat room, but God in Heaven did ask us to get back to the point didn't He?? By the way, what was the topic???


Member: bikerbabe
Location: hellishelping
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 11:57:36 AM

Comments

oh goody goody ...somebody made a MISTAKE! i love mistakes, because then i can point it out to everyone else and look better than you..isn't life great when you catch someone else screwing up?.. i feel so important now... being human's a kick aint it? ps YES i am part of the illuminati of aa.


Member: leo
Location: new mexico
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 11:59:13 AM

Comments

The topic was acceptance.


Member: Lois Laatsch
Location: California
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 12:42:11 PM

Comments

Lois Laatsch, Alcoholic here. Ted, thx for a great topic. I find that having a willingness to change is as important to me today as when I got sober. At 11 yrs of sobriety I sometimes think I know more than is good for me. So, I try to remain humble and teachable, and allow the gifts of the program work in and thru me.


Member: Susan A.
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 1:41:54 PM

Comments

Hi All, I'm Susan and I'm an Alcoholic. This has been a great meeting! & good topic, Ted. For me, spiritual growth comes as a result of accepting that -once more- my way of thinking, acting, whatever, isn't working or else I wouldn't be so angry, afraid, worried, hurt, etc., and then being willing to act on the directions I'm being given so I can change (prayer, steps, reading Big Book, Sponsor & things people pass on in meetings, etc.) I agree that finding the solution to not being able to drink due to my physical reaction to alcohol, and not being able to 'not drink' due to my mental obsession that alcohol will fix anything, -is- a life or death matter. The solution is what the directions in the Big Book are all about. When I take -action- my difficulties are removed. Since this works, I keep coming back. Simple, when I stay out of my own way. / I know this is off the subject; I want to say, (Shayla) One day at a time, you never have to hurt like this again. Bring your ass, the rest will follow, if you're willing. And please, don't worry about people seeing you at meetings, after all they didn't get here by eating too many green beans. (Adelea & Lisa in Germany) I got sober in the Kaiserslautern area. Loved lots of good AA there, and was afraid to come back to the states. Keep carrying the message. (Ron L.) I'm so glad you haven't drifted off like so many members with a lot of time seem to do. I need to hear how you've done it, so it can work for me, too. Thanks all, see you next week.


Member: siobhan c.
Location: washington
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 2:28:28 PM

Comments

willingness to change...nothing stays put. if you want something bad enough, you will work for it, whatever 'it' is. my it is sobriety. so i work for it, everyday. life often gets in the way so i have to be flexible, while keeping in mind what my priorities are: stay sober, be honest. spirituality is personal to me. i could never have made it this far without my faith, but that is my anchor. keep the faith, work the program, go to meetings. everyday.


Member: George
Location: Florida
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 4:28:24 PM

Comments

Wow BikerBabe!!! You really are a NASTY one aren't you??? Do you have any actual input or are you just an all around drunk that is or isn't drinking? So I guess it's o.k. to have opinions with the topics in AA, as long as they agree with yours, is that it? Or maybe you and the others aren't judging the ones you claim are doing the judging, or do you and they even allow others to have that very same right?? I don't really give a damn what you or anyone else for that matter says or does, I stay sober regadless of what else is going on because I totally accept the fact that those people are not only "out there," but most of them are in the rooms and just don't drink for longs periods of time!! If anyone else is too blind to see that and accept it because they are incapable of real thought, so be it as well. The point is this--I have complete and total abandonment to the idea that I'm an alcoholic and I don't drink anymore---THAT IS WHAT I ACCEPT!! As well as the fact that GOD gave me that gift, not AA, it was just a part of His way of doing it, that's all. If nobody else believes that, who cares??? I don't, because that doesn't make it any less true!!! Peace and happy sobering to all--especially you bikerbabe!!


Member: Greg S.
Location: Long Beach Ca.
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 5:25:36 PM

Comments

Hi all Greg S. here . I am a newcomer to Staying Cyber and i think this is a blessing to be able to meet this way. I just celebrated two years yesterday (5/14/03) i still have trouble finding my ass with both hands . But one thing i have learned is my peace and serenity definately relate to acceptance of those people,places,and things i can't change. A lack of acceptance of situations in my past has almost allways led to resentment, anger and frustration.I used to live to drink and then i drank to live , my bottom being under a tree along the 710 frwy pushing a buggy recycling for my survival.Not a pretty sight!I had to learn accepance the hard way.I don't regret that part of my life . I accept being an alcoholic .liviging one day, sometimes one hour or one minute at a time to stay sober another day.thanks for being here and celebrating my birthday with me God . Bless all!


Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 5:50:18 PM

Comments

Bill Wilson once wrote that he couldn't imagine one alcoholic talking down to another alcoholic. It he is reading this site he probably has turned over in his grave so many times that the angels are calling him ole pinwheel Bill.. That's my shot for today. :) Arizona Bill...


Member: Adrunk
Location: our fellowship
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 5:55:58 PM

Comments

yo carlic...thanks for sharing your strength and hope...i sure dont care if YOU go out and drink and i really dont want whaat you got! get your head out of your selfcentered ass and think of the newcomers...if id just logged in to AA for the first time i couldnt see any difference in you and the other assholes at the bar...what kind of a message is that to carry? soberity aamd serenity to all...


Member: Joseph R
Location: Talagante, Chile
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 8:08:45 PM

Comments

I dont like acceptance when I am angry or distraught. I find the the whole concept ridiculous. Its worse when I am in a meeting an some goof says read page 449 in the third edition of the big book. I hate that stuff. I have to remember it is just one point in time, this to shall pass isnt just a catchy buzz word or a nice magnetic bumper sticker one can buy. Its more than that,for if you are like me and you suffer from alcholism,the time will come when one just has to hold on. Sometimes its just a feeling that is there,sometimes its a part of the hundred forms of fear we are apt to suffer from. Its hardcore to accept things when your alcoholism is screaming F-U. Its not to be taken lightly,Thats what I am learning. This thing that I have truly is cunning baffling and powerful,that definitly doesnt go away after we have put the bottle down. Maybe its a good idea to converse with a close friend or sponser and tell them whats on my mind. I know for years I diddnt. I did some,but I was to frightened to tell the truth. I wanted to say this is the biggest F┤n piece of doo-doo I have ever experienceed. Resentment is the number one offender,If I have a resentment I find it hard to accept what ever is the problem I face I have at the moment. So it opens a door,If I have a resntment what can I do. Of Course its a good idea to invetory and then get rid of my anguish,but what If I am unable to do that. What then? Interesting when you see the flames and you see the exit,but you cant get there. Is acceptance the key to all my problems? Ultimately yes,but it is not just like that. Each persons experience with that is different and cant possibly have a calender of time strapped to it. Welcome to your journey!!!


Member: Matty H.
Location: ME
Date: 5/15/2003
Time: 11:05:42 PM

Comments

Greetings to all. I've been sober (you'd all call it being "dry") for several months now. I still don't "get it" about the 12 steps, and don't want to, but I'm learning to accept other opinions and advice, and perhaps share some, so that's why I'm here. The topic is "acceptance" - I accept the fact that I was drinking too much and WAS alcoholic. I accept the fact that I BEAT a nasty addiction to benzos. I WAS addicted. I don NOT accept the label of "alcoholic" or "addict" for the rest of my life. I consider myself to be no longer addicted to any substance. Read the definition, folks. From Merriam-Webster: Main Entry: adĚdicĚtion Pronunciation: a-'dik-sh&n, Function: noun Date: 1599 1 : the quality or state of being addicted <addiction to reading> 2 : compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful


Member: E.G.
Location: Utica
Date: 5/16/2003
Time: 1:10:05 AM

Comments

IF YOU LIKE "REFERENCE BOOKS" OTHER THAN THE OWNER'S MANUAL(BB) YOU CAN CHECK OUT THE APA DIAGNOSTIC CRITEREA FOR LISTING ALCOHOLISM AS A DISEASE...BUT IT WON'T HELP YOU STAY SOBER.FORGET THE PROBLEM...FACE IT,MOVE ON INTO THE SOLUTION AND DON'T LOOK BACK UNLESS IT'S TO SEE HOW CLOSE THE FLAMES ARE TO YOUR ASS


Member: Lisa
Location: germany
Date: 5/16/2003
Time: 2:47:26 AM

Comments

I was in K-Town 6 years Susan. I left about 5 years ago. Around you Brian's wife and did you know Fatneck?


Member: Lisa
Location: germany
Date: 5/16/2003
Time: 3:30:02 AM

Comments

Actually, it was 4 1/2 years I was there. I arrived Mar. 94.


Member: T-Bone
Location: S.Fl
Date: 5/16/2003
Time: 5:29:58 AM

Comments

Biker Babe: (if that's your real name, lol)you keep on sharing. I've been reading your posts for a long while and find most of what you have to say extremely relevant. Everyone one can't be a walking Big Book Quote some of us have to speak what we feel, that's called HONESTY. So, if it doesn't quote Bill W. or come from Dr. Laura or Dr. Phil, don't disregard it. Sometimes the best information you can recieve is from the people you least want it from. God bless.


Member: scott s
Location:
Date: 5/16/2003
Time: 10:22:58 AM

Comments

just trying to meet my 90 day requirement and don't have meeting availlitly..4 months now just got sponsor and feel gret but am scared of the replase


Member: Pete
Location: AZ
Date: 5/16/2003
Time: 11:21:03 AM

Comments

Happy Birthday Ted. I think it's great that you decided to share it with us.I found there are 3 "a"s to this program, the first being awareness.I would become aware of something. I then would take an action.That, I found later, was the third "a"(action). I kept doing that for years until someone in this fellowship pointed out that I was skipping the middle "a", that one being "acceptance". What a difference it made in my recovery.....and then I found "RULE 62"


Member: Bikerbabe
Location: Canada
Date: 5/16/2003
Time: 11:34:44 AM

Comments

T-bone...love that name!!) thanx for the vote of confidence,) (i am no longer co-dependant on what other people think and do))..So I have no plans to stop sharing... PS..((Scott)) .... if your scared of relapse, that's good.


Member: Bill W. Re-Incarnate
Location: Purgatory
Date: 5/16/2003
Time: 3:28:29 PM

Comments

Who Gives a damn what Bill Wilson says? I sure as hell don't!! He was not only just another drunk like me, he was more importantly just another human being with some extremely serious charachter flaws. I hope he is rolling over in his grave and not already in hell because I don't see where his chances were any better than anyone else's. The thing I find most comical in AA is how the vast majority of us go around speaking and acting as if it is a virtue to be an alcoholic. One of the good things Bill W. did say in the 12&12 is exactly that--that it is anything but!! Now all of a sudden after a few minutes of sobriety basically everyone in AA is going around trying to give advice to everyone else. I love what Bikerbabe said on the 12&12 meeting about getting a kick out of being a human. It is rather funny at times, but this meeting is really discouraging with all the tounge-lashings going around. Good luck to all and keep spewing that venom at each other, I'm quite sure that makes not Bill W. happy, but maybe it matters to the Creator a little bit how we treat one other!!


Member: Debb
Location:
Date: 5/16/2003
Time: 4:39:32 PM

Comments

hi. new to hi all. new to "staying cyber" but not soberity. cant get with everyone addressing each other instead of the topic. in f2f meetings in my neck of the woods(where byetheway AA first started) such crosstalk is strongly discouraged. we save that stuff for outside after the meeting, your equivalent being "the coffepot" I guess. still, many worthwile posts to help me stay between the ditches, and for those I thank you. heres a big cyberhug for ALL of you and there aint a damn thing you can do about it! peace.


Member: Debb
Location:
Date: 5/16/2003
Time: 4:40:49 PM

Comments

hi all. new to "staying cyber" but not soberity. cant get with everyone addressing each other instead of the topic. in f2f meetings in my neck of the woods(where byetheway AA first started) such crosstalk is strongly discouraged. we save that stuff for outside after the meeting, your equivalent being "the coffepot" I guess. still, many worthwile posts to help me stay between the ditches, and for those I thank you. heres a big cyberhug for ALL of you and there aint a damn thing you can do about it! peace.


Member: Pat H
Location: north Carolina
Date: 5/16/2003
Time: 4:57:44 PM

Comments

Hi,I'm Pat H. i am early recovery almost three months. after many times trying,i go to meetings and study the big book. i have a problem with fear,I don't want to go back where I came from,total despair. any comments would be appreiated.thank you. Pat H.


Member: adelea i.
Location: dresden, germany
Date: 5/16/2003
Time: 6:21:31 PM

Comments

Adelea, alcoholic. Pat, i have 10years sober and i still struggle with fear. But, i am no longer immobilized by it. and the good news, if you stay sober long enough you recieve tools to combat the fear-like a faith in a higher power, a relationship with a sponsor, a home group and a support group. just keep going to meetings, and be honest with people that you are scared. and i have a feeling you will find out that there are otehr scared people there too, maybe even people you thought would never of experieced this sometimes debilitating emotion. also, i know for me in the first year of sobriety i was impatient with the "program". i wanted all of the serenity, clarity and faith within a very short time - even though i drank for quite a while. but, like everyone else, i had to work for it and have patience. so if you do not have a sponsor-please find someone and ask them to go through the big book with you-that why you can ask someone with experience any quesitons you may have. on anther note-Lisa from Germany, i do not know the proper way to get into contact with people via this webiste on a persoanl level. but, i wouldn't mind chatting with you, since i do not really know many english speaking sober people here. i hope everyone is having a beautiful day!!


Member: PAT O
Location: TRI-CITIES
Date: 5/16/2003
Time: 6:56:50 PM

Comments

WITH OUT CHANGE YOU WILL NOT EVER LEARN ANYTHING NEW


Member: Cynthia H.
Location: Texas
Date: 5/16/2003
Time: 10:23:26 PM

Comments

My name is Cynthia I am an alcoholic. I have already posted once this week like many of you. I would just like to tell any new person to the program that some of what you have read here is not recovery! We all are in different stages of recovery so please take the good stuff and leave the rest. The BB says love and tolorance is our code and yes even acceptance of our fellows, I have been told hurt people, HURT PEOPLE. If these people want to have a pissing contest I wish they would go to a chat room where no one that wants help will get hurt. I have only just found this meeting and for the most part enjoyed all of your sharing.Please remember this disease kills and there maybe someone really hurting reading all of this.One drunk sharing with another is what makes this thing work. Thanks......


Member: liz s.
Location: paris
Date: 5/17/2003
Time: 2:35:22 AM

Comments

well, since a lot of folk are doublesharing this week, i'll throw my second two cents in, Liz, here, alchoholic. i just wanted to say, before i head off to my morning FtF meeting later, that today is my 6th anniversary and if i had a buck (or a euro, as the case may be) for every big and little thing i'm grateful for, all due to sobriety, the Program and the Fellowship of AA, then i could fly back to america tomorrow first class, no problem. i'm in a state of anxiety and stress because this is my definite move back to the states from europe yet....i'm working my "acceptance" muscles and my faith "muscle" and it seems to be working. i learned all this from aa. happy 24 to all-


Member: Leo
Location: New Mexico
Date: 5/17/2003
Time: 4:41:58 AM

Comments

There is a chapter in the book called Into Action. Thats where the answer lies in finding a power greater than ourselves that will solve our problem. I accepted the fact that I was an alcoholic so I drank today I use the serenity prayer.


Member: AnilG
Location: MtVernon,IL
Date: 5/17/2003
Time: 8:36:13 AM

Comments

I am an alcoholic willingness to change was very hard while I was drinking I thought I was always right and perfact everythig around me was wrong and nobody's knows anyhting but me. since I have been sober it is different. I have an open mind. think before I talk avoid arguments instead pray for another person.accept my mistakes quickly when I am wrong thanks to aa and alanon for giving me these tools to work with I think I have become a better person in this life.


Member: Kathy F.
Location: Texas, USA
Date: 5/17/2003
Time: 11:39:13 AM

Comments

I'm Kathy, an alcoholic. Thanks for starting the meeting, Ted, and reminding me of those things I need to focus on when faced with life in sobriety. A lot of times I want the willingness to change or acceptance to just "be" rather than me working towards these using the tools I've been given. I've had this attitude all week and didn't recognize it until this meeting.


Member: Lisa
Location: Germany
Date: 5/17/2003
Time: 2:39:20 PM

Comments

Adelea, If you go to the AA Stuttgart website, look under Stuttgart meetings. There is a hot-line number. Call the second one. You can ask for my number. I informed the guy that he may give you my number. Sorry to others if this is off the topic. I don't know how to go about getting the information any other way.


Member: CHris. H.
Location: Fla.
Date: 5/17/2003
Time: 2:53:03 PM

Comments

I'm CHris...I'm an alcohoic/addict...Thank you so much, Ted, for the topic...most of the comments have been so helpful...I thank you all for being honest about your struggles with acceptance.....Willingness is my sponsor's mantra..but it has nevertheless been really hard for me...One of the wonderful things i have learned in this program is that I can pray for willingness...The key has been to admit that I didn't have it...I guess that has been an acceptance of one kind or another...It has been such a freedom to be honest about my feelings and my emotions and my negative thoughts..."YOu can't fix what you can't acknowledge..." "Name it and claim it"...are sayings that have helped me...If I ACCEPT what my feelings are then I can change them..the program tells me to be reigorously honest..and I find that when I am , it is the beginning of acceptance for me...If I am rigorously honest about not being willing and pray for willingness, I have opened the door a "crack" and that seems to start the process....I am so greatful for learning these things..and I am so greatful for all of you all honesty this week..Thanks to you all...


Member: Hugh M
Location: Alberta Canada
Date: 5/17/2003
Time: 3:31:50 PM

Comments

Great topic Ted acceptance that we alkies have a disease and that if we dont do something about it we will surely die tired lonely and sick. If a doctor tells us we have cancer then most of us would try to get help. It is like it tells us in the big book on page 133 please read this page. Shayla go to meetings get a sponser some one you can indentify with and talk to. and checkout if there are any sober clubs in your area here there are many recovering alcoholics and addicts enjoying life clean and sober good luck Shayla and keep coming back. love Hugh M


Member: reality
Location: earth
Date: 5/17/2003
Time: 8:21:51 PM

Comments

Mark M., Don't take the first drink is the first essential, everything else hinges on that. If I don't take the first drink it's possible I may become willing to change my attitude and then my life. Thanks to all old timers.


Member: Sam
Location: NYC
Date: 5/17/2003
Time: 9:23:10 PM

Comments

http://www.geocities.com/drugsandalcoholinfo/webpagesandpapers/12biglieofaa3.htm


Member: robbie
Location: CA
Date: 5/17/2003
Time: 10:05:55 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm an Alcoholic and Addict, whether or not a choose to accept it, whether or not I choose to stay sober or to pick up that first drink. Accepting my reality sure makes life a lot easier. Chris, thanks for the reminder that rigorous honesty is involved... otherwise I'm accepting lies and fooling myself. Peace.


Member: antonio Garcia
Location: Midland, texas
Date: 5/17/2003
Time: 10:40:44 PM

Comments

Hi my name is antonio and i am an alcoholic and throw the grace of god i have not had a drink since 3/25/01. i am at a frind house so i am using there computer i just needed to check out the meetings on line. I have been feeling kind of bad, sad, angry, because of people i have help in the past, i used to help and sponcer guys from a court tremtement center. and i would go all out to help them get on there feet for when they get out.


Member: antonio Garcia
Location: Midland, texas
Date: 5/17/2003
Time: 10:56:17 PM

Comments

Hi my name is antonio and i am an alcoholic and throw the grace of god i have not had a drink since 3/25/01. i am at a frind house so i am using there computer i just needed to check out the meetings on line. I have been feeling kind of bad, sad, angry, because of people i have help in the past, i used to help and sponcer guys from a court tremtement center. and i would go all out to help them get on there feet for when they get out.


Member: Mark M.
Location: Albany
Date: 5/17/2003
Time: 11:32:33 PM

Comments

Whoever reality from earth is, I don't need to change my attitude and certainly not my life, but since I'm quite SURE YOU weren't being judgemental, I'll just disregard that as YOUR REALITY and YOURS ALONE because it's certainly NOT MINE and it's certainly NOT objective!! Good luck on not only the planet earth, but in the afterlife, or do you think that not drinking is ALL that the Creator requires??? What a lovely way to live!!! Peace!


Member: alternatives
Location:
Date: 5/18/2003
Time: 12:00:09 AM

Comments

some info http://www.geocities.com/drugsandalcoholinfo/webpagesandpapers/insideaawebpagewebpage.htm Then try, www.unhooked.com


Member: rich r
Location: bemidji,mn
Date: 5/18/2003
Time: 12:21:04 AM

Comments

i hurt and need help; i'm sick, confused and endlessly trying to walk the fine line between non acceptance,being right and acceptance; clouding my mind with expectations,martyrdom,contempt discontent,judgement...etc and fighting whats [right]that concept again when the notion of being sick as my sins seems present. i've just recently realized how some of the members arn't [sick] although an older member reinterates that some are sicker than others and that after many years it was inspiring to realize they have some sanity; attraction rather than promotion wrong/right both seem arguementative yet...rich


Member: STEP TWELVE
Location:
Date: 5/18/2003
Time: 1:17:43 AM

Comments

ALL OF YOU...KEEP COMING BACK.FOR THE NEW PEOPLE ESPECIALLY:FACE TO FACE MEETINGS AND HAVING AN OPEN MIND AND WILLINGNESS TO CHANGE ARE ESSENTIAL.....AND EVEN HARDER TO MANAGE FOR SOME OF US OLD TIMERS.SHOW UP..PEACE OF MIND WILL EVENTUALLY FOLLOW IF YOU ALLOW THE PROGRAM TO WORK.AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO ME.


Member: ED
Location: MO
Date: 5/18/2003
Time: 1:35:12 AM

Comments

Rich R, I've been there and am still doing that. Find a meeting. MOST IMPORTANT, FIND A MEETING. It will be hard, the people there know,(they have been there too) do not be ashamed. You may simply listen. I do. Learn from what you hear


Member: Mike S
Location: Sydney, Australia
Date: 5/18/2003
Time: 2:20:50 AM

Comments

Im 15 years sober and have experienced 3 spiritual rock bottoms in recovery, all relating to gaining the required humility for change. My no 1 block to change is self centred fear.


Member: Carlc
Location: Texas
Date: 5/18/2003
Time: 6:10:03 AM

Comments

Mike I have been not drinking 15 years but sober only after after taking the steps I have contemplated suicide 3 time in sobriety because I made someone or something more important than God but through his grace I have been able to grow from thse expiereinces remember this is a spiritual journey, and it is not easy but the rewards are awesome. Strenous work with another alcoholic saved me once, seeking him and not his blessings saved me the other two times. The book says that we ask him to remove fear and show us what he wants us to be AT ONCE we begin to outgrow fear, this really works. Good luck and God bless.


Member: neil s.
Location: suffolk, england
Date: 5/18/2003
Time: 6:24:45 AM

Comments

hello all, neil here, alcoholic from england, formerly from ft. walton beach as well, ((mark m.)) and ((ted a.)), matter of fact i used to go to AA meetings at 12 oaks, in navarre/gulf breeze, so cool to see names from "home" i was there from 1987 to 1999 (military) now in england, until july then off to germany, i'll be in florida in july, maybe see you at a meeting TED A. ??