Member: A Friend of BW
Location: for 25 years
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 5:39:39 PM

Comments

Who ever you are who posted as Bill W: You are a sick MF. To wish anybody drunk regardless of what was said is completely uncalled for and shows just how far from sobriety you are. Then you post under the name of Bill W and act as if you are speaking for all of AA. Well you don't speak for me and I am sure most of the honest sincere people on this site would say the same.

What a pathetic sick loser you are. If anyone is full of themselves it is you. Do us all a big favor and get lost!!!


Member: Julie L
Location: Bismark
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 5:55:54 PM

Comments

Oh my I think I am first....I don't understand the first post but I am guessing that someone on here wished someone else would get drunk. All I can say about that is I agree with A Friend of BW and I you don't speak for me either.

A topic. I was hoping we might discuss making amends. I am having a very hard time with this concept and I am taking some time off from it until I get a better idea of what to do because all of the amends I have made so far have not been taken well. So I figure I am doing something wrong. I would like to hear about other people's experiences with this.

Thanks


Member: Carolyn I
Location: West Texas
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 6:13:45 PM

Comments

Hi Julie.......I want you to know that amends is a great topic! Looks like you're the first one in this week with something that resembles a topic, so let's go with it.

Steps 8, 9, and 10 all deal with amends. Can it be assumed that you've completed the first 7 steps with a sponsor? If you haven't, then these steps are definitely best left alone until the first 7 are done. My sponsor knew me better than I knew myself, so she insisted that we plan my amends actions carefully. She knew that in my guilt and also my enthusiam, I might make an amend that would harm someone else. I was so very grateful for her methods; I had this small reliance on God, but I really wanted a person to be with me -- God with skin on, if you will. I did need constant guidance and from her total reliance on her higher power, I was able to grasp more and more for myself as I went along.

Get into that BB and read the part in Chapter 6 that deals with steps 8 and 9. Discuss it over and over with your sponsor. I'm not saying that your sponsor will assume your responsibilities; she probably has been where you are now and can see pitfalls that you can't see.

Finally, I hope you stay willing and enthusiastic about working the steps. The steps really work!

Love to all...


Member: Gina
Location: NY
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 7:01:03 PM

Comments

Making amends----hmmmmm, good topic and a challenge for me. Since I first got sober I have been making amends as the opportunity presents itself. I did 99% of my drinking in another state, so I will have some letters to write when I take the step formally. Then there are those amends which need to be made to folks who have died. I wrote my father a letter and said a prayer to him, then I made a donation to his Sunday School class. My mother has Alzheimer's and lives 550 miles from me. I made my amends to her last spring, although I don't know if she could understand (she doesn't know who I am anymore). If anyone has had any experience in making amends to a person with Alzheimers, I would appreciate hearing about it, as I don't feel as if I have completely done this.


Member: Doug S
Location: West Vinginia
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 7:58:36 PM

Comments

Making amends I found out that if you work the steps in order that making amends was a whole lot easier. Because working the steps change my life.It lets you speak from the heart!When I didn't work the steps in order my mind was making a mountain out of a mole hill. Thank God for my sponsor that taught me that.

Thanks

Making amends I found out that if you work the


Member: Doug S.
Location: West Virginia
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 8:06:57 PM

Comments

Making amends I found out that it was a whole lot easier if you work your steps in order because it lets you speak from the heart.It really change my life. When I worked the steps out of order, it made me make mountains out of mole hills. Thanks


Member: Theregoi
Location: U.S.
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 8:32:34 PM

Comments

Making amends is a great topic. It is something that old-timers with whom I have spoken take very seriously, they go so far as to say that if you do not take this step, along with step 4 you will get drunk again. Being a selfish drunk as many of us are, I want those promises to come true from pages 83 and 84. They will only come true when we are working on step 9 although it seems that they started for me somewhat earlier, they seem to really go when I treat other people in GOD'S will. During this step I had one person who I refused to make amends to. He, I was sure was a total asshole and did not deserve any amends. This I still believe, but it is me who I am working on not him. Besides I had, as in almost everything my mistakes in our problems. He has tried during my almost 5 years of sobriety to speak to me but in my hard headednes, I just ignore him or say ---- you. Well I was applying for a very important job last month and he told my future employers that I had a drinking problem. Almost cost me the job. He would not have be hurt but this could have thrown me in the direction of a drink. I saw some light on this step at that point. I have learned a lot in AA but sometimes I am still too caught up in my own pride to let go of my resentments completely,-Dangerous. God Bless you all


Member: Carol C.
Location: New Jersey
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 8:41:48 PM

Comments

Hi. Carol Alcoholic

The hardest amends I ever had to make was to my oldest son who is now 19. I still have so much guilt over how I treated him. I stopped drinking when he as 10 yrs. old and have been sober since. As he got older he one day asked me why I did some of the things I did. I simply told him I was sick. It had nothing to do with him, his behavior, God he was just being a kid. I was very hard on him especially when he started school and I thought was being bad when all he had was an attention deficit which I was too messed up to realize. My ammends to him was being a sober Mom from 10 on and being able to say I was sorry and made many mistakes. Thank God I did sober up and can talk about the past with him.


Member: Paul B
Location: Kirkland WA
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 11:52:53 PM

Comments

I was very afraid to face the people I had harmed. Unfortunatly, I had to do a lot of mailing since they were out of town. Amends are better made in person.

I sent an amend to an old drinking and drugging buddy. I know my habits and behaviors had a very negative impact on him and his relationship at the time. I asked for his forgiveness and what I could do to make amends. To my surprized, he had found the program and told me he had forgiven me a long time ago. He only ask that I remain sober.

An amend to a family member ended up with an amend coming back to me. We have a much better family now and appreciate each other's programs. Hurray for the family plan.

Not only did making amends keep me sober, it let me know how forgiving others are and I should learn from them.

And the promises don't stop.

AA rocks!!!!!!!!

In love and service


Member: Mike A.
Location: Texas
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 12:16:52 AM

Comments

Wow... amends. I am returning to these rooms after several years. I have not returned to drinking, but my life has many evidences of being in a dry drunk. I stopped going to AA meetings when my sponsor was ready to work on step 4 ... i simply didn't want to complete the work. Can anyone relate?


Member: Bryan J
Location: Northern Minnesota
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 12:25:48 AM

Comments

Hi, Bryan Alcoholic Amends, great topic. This is one which brings a lot of thought for all of us as alcoholics. Amends is defind as free from fault. First we have to admit that WE were at fault. Big step for me and my super ego. But once I just started to look at my faults wow. All the others they had harmed. I was pretty put out with myself. We discover our wrongs in step 4 and then we start dealing with them in step 5. As we continue to work the steps we finally come to the time when we have to make amends for our wrongs to others. Sometimes these amends are not recieved in a very joyous manner as in my cases most of the times. That's ok. I made the amend to free myself from having to carry around all that crap (guilt, remorse, anger etc.) So I feel we not only make amends to help others but most of all to free are selves from all the old behaviors. Things start to get pretty heavy if you continue to carry all that with you all the time and it's hard to work you program. I have had to make many amends in my soberity. 2 of my biggest my son and my dead husband. My son has been well recieved of my amends however I feel the best way for me to continue making these amends is thru living my program daily. Actions sometimes do work better than words. Just to continue being a good parent to him is the best amend I can ever make to him and it is continual. As for my husband, well I think that is a very difficult thing to do is to go to a grave and ask for forgivness. But you know if we really believe in the spiritual part of this program we realize that they do forgive us. Also I believe that my husband sees daily how much a better person I have become and he forgives me again. There again I am actions speak louder that words. We can all talk the talk but can you walk the walk ? That is the best amends we can make to anyone and more important to ourselves to live the life which AA teaches us to live. Yes we even need to make amends to ourselfes because after all we have done damage to us, mind body and soul. We must be forgiving to ourselves to. If you read pages 82-84 of the big book it talks about step 9. This is where the promises begin to appear in our lifes. So you see after we can say I am sorry we can begin to expect a miracle in our life. Every step is very important and they are in that paticular order for a reason. We have to start understanding how we work in order to do things a little better. We have to prepare ourselves to be ready to do step 9 and accept that freedom and the happiness which comes with it. We will have peace and serenity. This all just goes hand in hand with definition of amends, free from fault. Turn our lifes over to God and he will help us be free from the faults of past mistakes. Page 83 says " the spiritual life is not a theory. WE HAVE TO LIVE IT." Thanks for the time.


Member: Ray B.
Location: Athens, OH
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 12:44:07 AM

Comments

Hi Mike, the first time I took a shot at the 4th step, I too "balked". I'm not sure, but it may have been because I was having problems with the 2nd and 3rd step. I say this because when I did sit down and work on my 4th, I found that it wasn't as tough as I have made it out to be in my head. I found that literally, all I had to do was "put the pen to the paper" as a sign of willingness to my higher power. After I started, the writing just seemed to flow. Sure, sometimes it was painful, but not to the point that I had to stop or anything. Sometimes I didn't even really know what I wrote until I finished, and then re-read it. That had to be my higher power. I mentioned the 3rd step because I think it is my higher power's will that I continue with the steps.

I could tell you about all the relief I felt with the remaining steps that followed my 4th, but I believe that we should concentrate on the step that we are working on at the time. I will say though that there was a bit of relief just doing the 4th, I guess from just getting some of the junk off my chest and out into the open. However, that relief was short-lived until I went ahead and did my 5th. Then things really started to rock. Good luck, although you won't need the luck if you've done a 2nd and 3rd. - Ray


Member: Tim V
Location: Treasurer
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 7:51:42 AM

Comments

Don't forget to visit "Pass the Hat" and practice the 7th tradition.

Watch the CP for the upcoming 1st quarter treasurer report, hopefully today.


Member: tonydaduck
Location: USA
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 7:53:29 AM

Comments

This site"s policy has me confused. Would someone be kind enough to explain why the topic is "amends"? There is a "12&12" forum on this very website and such a topic probably belongs there. Last i checked "amends" was part of the "12 and 12". Bulletin!!!!!!........"amends" IS a STEP! This is a "Discussion group"? Or is this a "Step group". Please advise.?


Member: TomS
Location: Holt, Michigan
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 8:09:01 AM

Comments

Although I am not finished making amends, I did the most difficult one first. It was so hard to let people that I used know what I had done. Although they were gracious, I still have to remind myself that alcohol caused this once and by God's grace it will never cause this again. I am not to the point in my recovery where I am ready to make amends to others, but I felt I had to jump ahead in the steps and get this one out of the way. It was bothering me so much that it was interferring with my ability to work the steps. God Bless and Stay Sober Tom . . .an alcoholic


Member: Heather B
Location: MN
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 8:13:55 AM

Comments

Hi all. Heather, alcoholic here. Making my amends took years. I would write the letters and they would go unanswered. I would find email addresses and not hear ack. Maybe these people had heard my words before only to see me go back to my old ways. But after the years, they began to believe in me again. And very old friendships were rekindled to my dlight. I guess my contribution is just this - if our amends are not accepted at first, don't be discouraged. If these are people that mean something in your life, time will foster their forgiveness. Have a great day.


Member: tonydaduck
Location: usa
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 8:16:18 AM

Comments

Do i understand the policy in here correctly? We are to keep our posts LIMITED to 300 words? (((Bryon J.))) Please do not take this offensivly but you have posted over the allowed "word-Limit" of 300 per post.IF my calculations are correct: At the words "difficult time" you reached the 300-word limit.At the words "to live" you exceeded 400 words.At the words "in order" you reached the 500-word mark. And your post ended with a grand total of five-hundred and eighty-five accumulated words! i find it always amusing when someone accuses others of a negatively veiwed quality and in the same breath behaves in that very manner.You open with a "guilt-trip" for all that may be reading your post.Then you commit the very act you purrportaly found repulsive. To what do i refer??? SELFISH behavior!! Naughty,naughty!


Member: Cathleen M
Location: Moline
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 9:13:46 AM

Comments

I am Cathleen an alky. (tonydaduck), why don't you stop bitching about everything all the time. The topic of discussion is amends and is not necessarily limited to the 12 X 12 meeting. It does not state that we MUST not talk about the steps on this site. So get the heck over it and either share something about the topic at hand or get off of this website and let the rest of us go on with this meeting.

Amends is a good topic and a great practice. At first I did not believe that making amends would do anything for me and I resisted with all my power. I finally got to a point in my sobriety where I had not choice but to start actively working this step. My first 2 attempts at this were disasterous. So I got a hold of my sponsor and worked closely with her to make sure that people who were on my list actually needed to be there and or course to examine if I had left anyone out. After that I went through each person and decided upon the best way to approach that particular amend. It helped alot to do that because I was not running off half cocked making amends that could potentially hurt someone else or myself. I still have my list and am working through it as best I can. I make direct amends when I am able and try to find good ways to make those that need to be indirect.

Thank you for the good topic Julie. Maybe you might try my sponsor's approach to this step as I mentioned above. It might help you to ensure you are doing the best you can in each case. Remember amends are for your benefit and welfare. You should do them for you not because someone else tells you that you have to.


Member: Tim V
Location: Poconos
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 9:55:41 AM

Comments

Amends, My sponsor said that it means to "make better". If I have harmed or offended anyone here in my effort to carry the AA message, I am truely sorry. It is my feeble effort, not AA's fault.

I only want to help other alcoholics so we can stay sober.


Member: tony g
Location: ma
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 12:18:10 PM

Comments

i've had to tell family member's,freinds especialy an old girlfreind,that my behavior was wrong,that my drinking i put first. it was a little rough but i faced them and told them.for the most part they understood,things get better,when you put some effort into them.also i have made an attempt to make amends through actions and this works too,people see that you are trying to make good the only trick is to mean it.


Member: Mary K
Location: Boston (Raynham)
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 12:43:46 PM

Comments

Hi all! Mary, alcy

After several unsuccessful attempts at sobriety when I got to the halls this last time (knock on wood) everyone in my life was sooo sick of hearing "I'm sorry" from me. They became empty words coming from my mouth. Once some time went by without a drink and the apparent changes in my behavior I was then able to say "I am truly sorry" and the recipients were more willing (if not still a bit skeptical) to hear me.

Then there are what I refer to as "grocery store amends" - people that I do not necessarily seek out but that I feel I need to make an amends to and God places us in the same place at the same time i.e., grocery store.

Change in behavior makes amends best I think, although speaking the words are necessary to keep me humble.

God bless all !


Member: Guess Who
Location: Cyber Space
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 1:15:18 PM

Comments

I would state my name, but there are a couple of people that visit this site who have given me grief when I post, so I am using an alias. When I have made an amend that I truly needed to, I have felt lighter and freer, most of the time. At a minimum, it has always relived me of my burden of guilt, and for that, I am eternally grateful. Most of my amends have been well received, although not all (some are sicker than others). In a few cases, the person I've made an amend to has acknowledged their own defects, however, this was not a sought after goal, as my amend was based on my inventory, and not theirs.

Making an amend has been relatively easy when my house is in order, and I'm doing the steps on a regular basis. However, I am finding making an amend to God right now has not been very easy for me. I cussed out my HP, because some things did not go my way in my time, and I was treated unfairly by a few others, when I thought my life should be magically better, and I should be treated differently, just because I cleaned up my side of the street.

I was trying desperately to do everything the way I thought God wanted me to behave by surrendering my will and the whole bit. I was going to a lot of meetings, doing service work, praying morning and night, working with my sponsor, and still had a couple people just take advantage of me and treat me like crap along the way. I have prayed for the jerks (guess I'll have to pray again now), and my anger is sky high, because it just isn't making a difference. I wish that "what goes around comes around" was really true, and they'd get theirs. Man, I am having a problem with anger. I know in Chapter 4 of the BB it says that anger and resentment for an alcoholic "is fatal," but I am angry and have been at for over a week, I just don't know what else to do.

Okay, I am sorry I cussed out my HP, after all, why would God be responsible for the behavior of all people I come in contact with, but I've grown weary of being treated like crap. So, rather than having all the answers today, I have a few questions. I know things get better when I go through them, …I just am weary of going through things when I am in my current frame of mind, meaning, I have put off acting while I am so angry, because I don't want to have to make more amends in the future. However, my lack of action right now is not doing anything to make my situation better. I am surrendering my will to God, again and asking for his guidance. I am open to suggestions about this topic.


Member: anonymous
Location:
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 1:37:54 PM

Comments

The making of amends is best done within one's own breast. For if I say I'm sorry to any, I as much as hand the amendment over to them to toss over. As it's been said many of these don't go well. But at last, it is with God we now have to do; we must leave off the old life and the people thereof. What therefore is amendment but often times a reluctance to let go?


Member: Shelli
Location: N.CA
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 1:48:46 PM

Comments

Hi Shelli here alcolic, just popped in for a second to check out the new topic, love it seems like since the day I've gotton sober it has been about making amends. I definatly made my share of errors doing them and I am still doing them they just keep popping up, right now I am trying to make amends to my son for giving him up for adoption in my first year of recovery that was almost 14 years ago he is now 17. If all goes well he will be back with me this summer. Some amends simply take time. I broke my program into 4 sections maybe this will help maybe not, I had to do each section in order before I could move on to the next section it goes like this, first 3 steps Admissoin, next 3 Submission, next three Restitution and final 3 Reconstruction. Even in sobriety I blow it, and still have to work these groups, this way I know what exactly it is I'm working on and where I am in my program. Good luck all. LOL SS


Member: Stanley B
Location: Delaware
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 3:30:34 PM

Comments

I am Stan and yes I am back. I know last week I was so fed up that I said I would not return but I came online today and saw this new great topic.

First, I would like to start with making an amend to Tim V. I do apologize for my angered reaction on last weeks topic, no excuses, I was just very frustrated. You have not offended me at all, I think things just got very heated on that particular topic. I would like to say to Julie that stopping and taking a new view on how you are working something is a good approach. Trust me, you will find a way that is good for you.

I would like to talk directly to "Guess Who" here. I want to tell you how refreshing it is to hear someone speak from their heart. I also want to tell you that it is OK to be mad at God. I am sure everyone here has had anger at God many times. I can speak for myself and say that I too have been where you are and have cussed God out from here to kingdom come. The good news is that He knows where you are coming from and you don't have to worry about being abandoned.

Let me suggest this "Guess Who". Maybe you are trying too hard for other people. What I mean by that is this. There was a long period of my life that I behaved as you mentioned in your posting. I did all the right things, went to meetings, prayed day and night, service work, talked to my sponsor, etc. When I finally got to my breaking point, I was so scared because I thought for sure I was doomed to be this way forever. Then by some miracle, I realized that all those actions I thought were the right things, turned out to be the right things according to other people. I took some time to do some soul searching after that and asked myself very honestly "what do you feel in your heart? what is right in your heart? and what is good for you?" The answer I got back surprised me and definately not what I had always believed it should be. You see that was my problem I could not get out of the "should" syndrome. I let everyone elses thoughts, opinions, actions, beliefs, etc. lead me around by the nose by always telling myself what I "should" do. I was never ever really true to myself. Well, I finally got wise and decided to do what was in my heart. I did that this last November, and of course was judged harshly by many, but this time I went my way instead of theirs. I can't tell how much happier I am now.

The truth, Guess Who, is that you MUST be true to yourself FIRST and foremost. There is no amend in the world that will relieve you of the pain associated with lying to your heart. Do you know why? Because God is in your heart and you can't lie to God. He will never let your heart rest until you start to listen to it and trust it. That is why I lived half of my life with a broken heart because I denied God's message. Take some time my friend and look within. Feel what is going on then ask yourself if you are being true to yourself or just going through the motions to appease others. You will be amazed at the answer.

Love, serenity and HP's guidance be with you my fellow freinds. Thanks for listening to me ramble.

Stanb2001@aol.com


Member: Robert L S
Location: Arizona
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 4:32:30 PM

Comments

Robert, Alcoholic/Addict

I am relitivly new to Sobrerity, so I have not yet made any amends, I am getting a lot of helpfull info here today for when the time comes. Great ES&H with the exception of one duck! I can't find where is says not to post more than 300 words for a disscussion meeting, but it did find something about only posting ONCE PER WEEK!..

But then again I did say I was new at this stuff. so I am probably not clear on all the ruels.. I only know "don't drink today" wishing all a happy healthy 24hrs


Member: Marlea C
Location: Seattle, WA
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 5:20:19 PM

Comments

Hi I am Marlea, Alcoholic. Very timely topic. I have been renewing my commitment to step work again, and finally getting ready to make some amends. Every time I do step work I am rewarded with more freedom and happiness, so I know that getting through 8 and 9 will ultimately be a positive and rewarding experience. Stan, I am so glad that you are back. What you have said about being true to self as that is where God lives for each of us is so right on. I was never true to myself while drinking or even my first couple years of sobriety. I have been blessed with the opportunity to really learn about and learn to love the me that is me. This time is such a gift, and learning to follow my path because I feel that it is my best choice is bringing me so much joy today. Thank you for the reminder that we each know what is best for us individually and that we alone ultimately make the best right choice we can make. I have but one life to live, let me live it by God's will, not another mans, and let me live it well. Marlea


Member: Joseph O
Location:
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 7:06:32 PM

Comments

"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest."


Member: tonydaduck
Location: USA
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 7:50:48 PM

Comments

OOPS!! Sorry,i thought i was in the "Disscussion" forum. Guess this is the Steps" forum. Sorry, but it looked so much like a "step" meeting here!


Member: Here we go again
Location:
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 8:57:15 PM

Comments

Dear "tonydaduck"

Your continuous and obnoxious postings belong on the coffee pot and not here. Please do us a favor and take your anger elsewhere, we already had a bad week last week, we don't need another hate filled week of nasty postings.

THE TOPIC IS AMENDS AND YOUR LITTLE TEMPER TANTRUMS AINT GONNA CHANGE IT...GET OVER IT AND GROW UP!!


Member: MisterB
Location: Toledo,OH
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 9:24:23 PM

Comments

keep it simple, stupid ! even when it's difficult to make peace.

then let go and let God. this works best for me and usually keeps my foot out of my mouth !


Member: GREGG G.
Location: KENN., WA
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 10:06:39 PM

Comments


Member: Carolyn I
Location: West Texas
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 10:32:19 PM

Comments

Hi friends.....as far as I've been able to tell, all topics at AA meetings spring from the steps, in one way or another. I've never been to an AA meeting that had topics such as the weather, the ball scores or the latest movies.

Lots of love to all...


Member: Alcoholic
Location: LI
Date: 4/3/00
Time: 10:55:25 PM

Comments

For me saying "I'm Sorry" means I will do my best as a human being not to repeat that behavior again, so I had to experiance the first 7 steps and truly make a change in myself before I could truly make any amends. One of the gifts of sobriety to be able to truly say you are sorry knowing you have changed and will not repeat that same behavior again by the grace of God.


Member: Doug K
Location: West Michigan
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 12:04:40 AM

Comments

HI everybody, my name is Doug and I'm an alcoholic. Amends, great topic for a discussion meeting! I'll discuss my experience. I was not one of those people who took the steps in order(ya ya heard all that). When it came to step 9, I thought I would never be able to do it, but I was told that if something was bothering me-affecting what little sobriety I had, then I must deal with it immediately. This was good advice for me. I was an elected local official, so at a regular meeting that was heavily attended, I explained about my past behavior and told them I had deep remorse- that I was open to whatever amends the rest of the board felt was necesary, or the citizens feelings towards this. I received nothing but subdued support from all. I was a scout leader, and discussed my alcoholism and mistakes with the parents. Though they wished I wouldn,t, I then resigned. I went to my number one adversary, our relationship was of the worst order of human behavior - on both sides. But I went to clean up my mess, not to justify it by pointing out his. I said nothing about the real or imagined transgressions of his, but listed everyone of mine and when I got done ( he was sitting at his desk looking incredibly smug) I asked him what he wanted me to do to correct my errors. He said "You were an a--hole then, you're an a--hole now, you can get out of my office." Pretty easy reparations to make to him for all the wrong I had done.

These are just some of the amends I have made, all before I was sober a year. It has been a few now, and my past no longer haunts me. The amends are for me to be free of the demons of my past and can only be excorcised by direct and humble attention. To pay my debts in full, to be happy joyous and free, to look in the mirror again, to clean house fully, to give my past to my Higher Power, these have been the benefits of making amends. There are still some I have to make, I trust my HP will provide a way to reach those who I can't find, until then I am truly willing. Thanks


Member: Lee E
Location: Seattle
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 2:59:16 AM

Comments

Hi all. this is my first visit to an online meeting. Having knee surgery keeps me from my usual and I'm "using" you all to stay up until I collapse asleep.

The amends that is killing me is attempting to convince my ex-wife-to-be that I am truly sorry about the fatal damage I did to her, our marraige and whatever my drinking did to our kids. This is sincere. I have a hard time forgiving myself, but with the help of God and the program I do most of the time. When any mention is made of something bad happening today the reason is always my past drinking. Probably so, but just a little recognition that I wasn't exactly having a good time as a drunk and a pinch of forgiveness would do wonders for me. It isn't going to come and I should know better as she suggested I drink a little less each day until the craving was gone. But I keep giving my anger to God so I can, again and again, admit the damage I did and express my sorrow. I didn't just have one drunk and I won't be done wth this amends in one attempt. Some are like that is my point. An amends can take years.


Member: Jean-Claude T.
Location: Belgium
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 8:16:03 AM

Comments

My name is JC and I’m an alcoholic.

Thanks for the topic Julie. If my amends have been taken well or not, is not important. The important thing is, by doing them, I don’t keep any skeleton in a closet. I have made amends, I can start a new life, without feeling the guilt of my past. Amends are making ME feel better!

Thanks for letting me share. jctoller@hotmail.com / ICQ 36308407


Member: Kim
Location: Michigan
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 8:22:33 AM

Comments

Hi...Alcoholic named Kim, here. Doesn't a "discussion" meeting usually mean talking about a topic? Sharing ES&H on said topic? Just wondering.......

Amends is always a good topic for me and I have gained ES&H reading the previous posts. I would like to share my own ES&H now.

I said a million "I'm sorries" over the many years of drinking & they ended up meaning diddly squat because I always ended up doing the same things. Someone I respect once said that "Yes, you are sorry.......a sorry SOB" and he was right. I was a sorry excuse for a mother, sister, friend, wife, & daughter. I never failed to hurt the people I proposed to "love". I never knew how to mean it when I said it because I was a very sick human being.

After learning about my disease, working the previous (1-8) steps with my sponsor, praying to my HP for strength & willingness to proceed, & hearing others ES&H on this topic; only then was I able to follow thru with my amends. I knew going in that some may not be received well, but that was not my concern. I was there to clean up my side of the street & because of that I no longer fear the past. I can look myself and anyone else in the eye & not feel shame, guilt, or remorse for past transgressions.

The best amends I can make to all that I care about is to not be the old personality & not drink, one day at a time, to the best of my ability.

My biggest difficulty with amends was self-forgiveness. I couldn't forgive me for the mistreatment of others. Someone I respect a lot asked me this question....."Do you believe that your HP has forgiven you?" My response was "of course, I asked & am not doing those things, so He has." The gentleman then asked "What makes you think you are better than Him?" If I truly believe that my HP has forgiven me, then I must forgive myself because I quit playing "God" a few steps back.

Thanx for letting me share!


Member: tom s
Location: Michigan
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 8:46:15 AM

Comments

My name is Tom and I am an alcoholic. I would like to hear from other people how they decided to whom to make amends? (ignore grammar)I am struggling with how far back to go, how to do it, etc. My sposor has not beeen real helpful but maybe he can't be. This seems to be a monumental task to me. Any suggestions?


Member: tonydaduck
Location: U. S. of A.
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 9:11:22 AM

Comments

(((Here-we-go-again))) Thank-you "Here-We-Go-Again" you have set me straight and i now see the error of my ways. Your explanation and scolding has led me to the facts.Let's see...mmmm..ah.....do i have it right now??: the "Disscussion forum is now being conducted in the "12 and 12" forum and all "Steps" will be taken in the "Discussion forum. O.k i get it now.How silly of me to ever have assumed that dicussions would be held in the "Discussion" forum and all "Step" meetings would take place in the "12 and 12". To all i make amends. Mea Culpa!


Member: Jan S
Location: Australia
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 10:13:00 AM

Comments

Jan S, alcoholic. Thanks for the topic, and Cathleen M and Heather B's shares were a great help for someone who has yet to make amends. If you've already lost contact with a friend, do you write anyway, and just never post them to the person? I'm trying, where possible, by actions to make up for things in the past. Have never actually owned up to people that I have trouble with alcohol - I guess THAT is the hardest part of the amends. (Though they must've guessed it!) Thanks for all the comments.


Member: Stanley B
Location: Delaware
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 10:21:18 AM

Comments

I am sorry to the double post but I can't stand this anymore.

((tonydaduck)) PLEASE STOP IT! WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH NEGATIVITY ON THIS SITE AND DON'T NEED ANYMORE. TAKE YOUR ARGUMENT TO THE COFFEE POT AND STOP STIRRING UP THE CRAP HERE!!!


Member: Arlene M
Location: WV
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 10:22:30 AM

Comments

My sponsor passed onto me about making amends comes in GODS time. When I first came into the fellowship 6 years ago I (no sponsor) (no GOD) went about making amends before working any of the steps-results-RID!!! I soon learned that the amends came as I stayed sober for Arlene not for others, today I still have something or someone that pops up that I need to pray on. God could and would if he were sought. I have found that inner peace that the fellowship has given me! Thanks AA for being there to bring me a God of MY Understanding that loves me no matter what!


Member: Cathleen M
Location: Moline
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 10:26:03 AM

Comments

Thank you Stan B, I could not have said it better myself. I second Stanley's recent post to tonydaduck and also ask that you take your negativity out of here.


Member: One day at a time
Location: in Kansas
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 10:33:21 AM

Comments

Yep.....I give it a third vote of agreement. to 'tonydaduck': Get lost!


Member: John Doe
Location: in here for life
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 11:17:03 AM

Comments

I am John and a drunk. Thank you Julie for the GREAT topic. Amends have always been a hard thing for me to digest. I used to look at this practice as a display of weakness. Needless to say I avoided amends for a very long time. Many of my amends did not go well either. I think it was because I was not really thinking about the way I made the amend to whoever the person was that I addressing. In time I realized that I needed to slow down and examine the most appropriate method of making any amend. It took some time but I finally paid attention to the instruction given within the step itself. "Except when to do so would injure them or others." Duh! I was out there making amends to the world and didn't even consider being careful about who, how, why and when I made them. So to make my point, Julie, take your time and answer those questions before making amends to anyone. Sometimes it will turn out that you cannot make the amend but as long as you have the willingness in your heart it will get better. Amends are for you!

May I just say to Stanley B that I think your post about the "should syndrome" is absolutely what I needed to hear. I have been struggling a lot lately stuck in that old should syndrome. You know, I should do that, I should not do that, I should be this, I should not rock the boat, I should, I should, I should....After reading your post, I thought to myself, Oh my God with all this should stuff when do I get to live my life for me in happiness and joy? Thank you for pointing that out. God really does speak through others.

Thank you for the great discussion this week.

PS I place another vote in favor of the duck person going away. Also Mr. Duck there is a message for you on the CP.


Member: tonydaduck
Location: United States of America!!!
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 11:53:36 AM

Comments

In my opinion serenity is one of the aims of "the program" . It appears as though some (3?) posters herein are unfortunite enough to not be experiencing such a pleasant feeling. i mourn for them.In the United States (last time i checked) we have a Constitution. In said Constitution lies a "First Ammendment". If i understand this aforementioned ammendment,it beautifully gives us the "RIGHT" to free speech.i love this country! In fact i love the world and everyone in it.It's just that i happen to love some more than others.However,that does not grant me the right to necessarily take action against those i happen to not love as much as the vast majority of thosse that i do.Having said that,i would like to suggest(this is just a very gentle suggestion) that those that do not agree with what i have posted find it in their hearts to just scroll on by anything i post.Freedom! We have choices.....yes? Unless of course we want to pick a target to inappropiatly express our deeply repressed childhood anger by "namecalling" or instructing a poster to leave the website.i have recently sent a "hefty" donation to this website and feel i have just as much right to post here as anyone else as long as i do not use "fowl" language or threatin someone or harm others in some obnoxious fashion.i truly feel i have not done any of that.If someone is offended by my expressing my veiws,i humbly apologize as it was not my intent.Therefore let it be known henceforth i having met all three criteria(stated herein),i will NOT leave this site!What are the three criterion aforementioned....you ask?::::1)Protection of free speech as set forth in the U.S.Constituition. 2) Writing acceptably appropiate material 3) Having been extremly generous by sending a large monetery donation to the website herein.Peace to all! i wish each and everyone of you serenity and sobriety.See you soon(herebouts).....Godbless you!


Member: walt
Location: PA
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 11:57:31 AM

Comments

Hi everyone I'm walter an alcohlic first I would like to say if someone wants to waste his or her time trying to pump negitivty into the site have fun!I don't care because I don't have to read and I cerntinly won't feed into.This individual has probly kept me sober one more day Thanking God that I have ceasd fighting everyone and everything ,even alcohol.We must remember this person is sick and to be tolerant of such people because they help us grow.I will prey that God's will be done. I to have been ducking the issue of amends lately although I have made quite a few since I have come into the progam 9yrs ago its the most recent ones that ihave been draging my feet on. For me I have to much ego invested in things lately and I keep doing the same things over and over mostly at work. I have develop a pretty un healthly pattern in my working relationships.So yes it is time for me to take time out and make amends to the employers I have done harm to so any future prospects will be more positive for me.Until I am humble and admitt me wrongs and do the utmost to correct my behavior I will keep making the same amends over and over.Thanks


Member: Samantha
Location: Great Falls
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 12:25:31 PM

Comments

Dear Tony da Duck,

Since your are so big on rules and legal rights and making sure we all following the rules. How about you do the same....read at the top of this website, the rule states clearly 'one post per week.' Please take Stanley B's advice and stop harrassing everyone here. We have asked you to participate in this discussion but you insist upon harassment and it is for that reason we have asked you to leave. Yes, it is your right to be here but it is also our right to discuss the topic at hand and ask you kindly to do the same. Please, if you cannot discuss the topic of the week, then wait until next week when another will be posted. In the meantime use the coffee pot to vent your anger. Thank you.


Member: the duck
Location:
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 12:26:31 PM

Comments

How very "BIG" of you to "pray" for me! Do you now feel superior!????


Member: andy m
Location: Pa.
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 1:00:07 PM

Comments

Atta girl samantha, tell it like it is,He may get the message


Member: Sam J
Location: Southeast
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 1:01:43 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm an alcoholic and the name is Sam. "Amends" is a good topic. A lot of the things that I would like to make amends for are of the type that would only open old wounds. The amends that I could make were to the people I should have loved.(I wasn't capable of really loving anyone). I walked out on my wife and 4 children many years ago. I continued to drink for several more years. When I sobered up I wanted to make amends to the ex wife and children but I knew they would think it was some more of the same old stuff. (Saying I'm sorry, which I meant, but going right back and drinking again). I waited 4 years to try to make these amends so they would know that I was serious about getting sober. Since that time, another 20 years has passed and my amends still haven't been accepted. I have tried to be honest with myself in this matter. I asked myself "If my parents had done me the same way, how would I have reacted". The truth is that I don't know. I very well may have been even more bitter than my children have been. I have found that no matter how my children feel I can love them and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it. They are in my prayers every single day. Maybe one day-----. I feel like the key is being willing to make the amends. I did recently get to meet a 20 year old Grand child whom I had never seen. (Sometimes it takes a long time for the good things to happen.) Thanks for being there. Sam


Member: Joe M
Location: WPB Florida
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 1:06:19 PM

Comments

Hi Everyone!!! My name is Joe and I have alcoholism.

Thanks for the great topic Julie. I haven't done an official 8th or 9th step yet but I have had to make some ammends that couldn't wait. I think quite a few have already said that saying sorry just doesn't cut it any more. To my two boys, my x-wife my employer, and to a number of people in the program who have known me for some years, the only ammends I can make is to stay sober and become a welcomed friend, a needed father, and a productive employee.

The only way I can maintain this sobriety is by following the suggested steps, and trying to live each moment as God would have me.

I guess what I would like to share is that my ammends started with the first step!

Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Gary S.
Location: Dallas
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 3:36:50 PM

Comments

My name is Gary S. I am an alcoholic.

This is a real good topic to discuss. I have been sober 3.5 years and have made a few amends with the Program's help. I know their are many more that I will have to make and I hope to do this with the help of my Sponsor. Speaking of, my Sponsor and I have not spoken to each other for the last week and a half. This is unusual for us, because I have tried to call him regularly for all of my sobriety. I have had the same sponsor for the last 3.5 years and love him dearly, but I feel that he lacks responsibility when he commits to doing something and doesn't follow through with it, especially when it deals with me. I don't know if this is because of his lack of meeting attendance (2 in the last year) or what. I do know that I'm learing and growing all the time with the Program's help and hopefully learing and growing away from old behavior. I guess I'm resenting him right now because he promised to do something and didn't follow through with it and then there was no call saying why. How do I make an amends to someone who I don't owe an amends to, but resent him for his behavior. I don't want to drink, but resentments are so burdensome, especially when it's with your Sponsor. Should I continue to play the silent game.

Thanks for letting me vent.


Member: NCQ
Location: Anywhere, USA
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 4:12:33 PM

Comments

To My Fellow "Serious" AA Members: As any of you with children know, if they can't get attention by being good then they will get attention by being bad. This is apparently the problem with the troublemaker in our group this week. And what do we do with that child? We ignore them until they behave normally. To respond to such a person only keeps them going. Ignoring them, hopefully, will either have them stop the behavior or apologize for their disruptive behavior. Everytime I read the name of this individual I was hoping that this would be the post where he/she would make AMENDS and apologize for the outlandish behavior and rejoin our group. Apparently not. So if we ignore this person, perhaps things will change. It only takes a second to scroll past the comment. Oh, by the way, were all of you as impressed as I was by the "hefty donation" this person made? Perhaps if it truly came from the heart it would have meant something more. But we always can use the money so let me be the first to say thanks! Happiness and laughter to all and another sober 24!


Member: Donna M.
Location: okiefrom muskogee
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 4:29:56 PM

Comments

Hi I am Donna and I am a recovering alcoholic. My take on the ninth step is this, when people don't accept my amends and "throw me out of there office" I have truely done my part its over. Its the action we take not the responce. love to all.


Member: Nancy T.
Location: Decatur, Alabama
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 6:12:11 PM

Comments

Hi my name is Nancy T. and I'm an alcoholic. I have just begun to work the 9th step and I am trying to make amends by verbally talking to the folks I need to reach, but also by my actions. In the case of my family, I think only my actions over time will truly be my amends. Sometimes the opportunity for amends presents itself so I take it. On the other hand, I dread planning to make other amends and I know I can't put it off too much longer. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: gary
Location: nc
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 6:14:29 PM

Comments

Hello I'm Gary, an alcoholic. I've been sober for one day. I want to make an ammends to myself for all the harm I've caused myself by getting drunk.Do yo have to be a christian to stop drinking? What if you are a sincere caring person but don't follow christianity? Is there an AA for non-christians?


Member: Bruce  W
Location: Lunenburg
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 6:28:57 PM

Comments

Makeing amends is very inportant. It took me 8 year to make most of my amends.And a28 day program to do most of them.Thay told me in A.A.to take my time and do them when i was comfortable to do so.But i will tell you one thing i feel alot better sence i have delt with all of my past.But i could not have done it with uot help.And today i feel alot better


Member: Jim F
Location: OK
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 7:22:32 PM

Comments

My first time on this website and have been moved by gary from nc. The answer to your question gary is NO, you do not have to be a christian to be a part of this program. AA is for EVERYONE who has a desire to stop drinking. It is as simple as that. You are welcome in the rooms of AA just by the mere fact that you wish to put down the booze. Might I suggest that you contact your local AA and go to a face to face meeting there? While this website is good, it cannot replace what you will get in a face to face meeting. In the meantime, you are right where you need to be and you just keep coming back.


Member: Tom M
Location: Homosassa, Fl
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 9:54:47 PM

Comments

Making amends. Good topic but not always easy to do. But then anything worth while to do is not always easy. The main thing is that we make a sincere effort to make amends where and when it can be done with out causeing hurt or harm to another. I say if you did something that was wrong, but by going to that person and telling them you did a wrong would cause them pain or hurt. I say keep it to yourself unless that person asks if you did do them wrong. The example I like to give is: if a man cheats on his wife but to tell her would only hurt her, keep it to himself unless an until she asks. If she asks then you must admit your wrong and ask forgivness. If you are truly sorry you will make sure it never happens again. But make ammends when to do so will not hurt others.


Member: Connien
Location: Minnesota
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 10:16:56 PM

Comments

Thanks, NCQ, and AMEN.

You've reminded us of proper conduct. I cut and pasted Tonyadaduck's last "letter" with the intention of posting another "sign off or be positive" post---he had 319 words in his last post and had just reprimanded someone else for being too wordy!. But I know (I have a hyperactive 4 year old) that doing so would only exacerbate the problem. Tonyadaduck sortof told me off last week...and I was nearly drawn in to paying him/her back for that one!

But anyway, this has been a good discussion , and I am greatly appreciative if not envious of everyone else's ability to rise above this negativity. I'm not quite up to ammends yet...but I"m getting there.

Happy 24! :-)

Connie


Member: GREGG G.
Location: KENN., WA
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 11:18:15 PM

Comments

HI, KEEP COMING BACK, IT WORKS IF YOU WORK IT!


Member: Sherry M.
Location: CA
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 11:48:12 PM

Comments

Sherry, Alcoholic. Good topic. Amends. I quess one of the hardest I ever made was to my husband and kids. My husband took to following me around toward the end of my drinking career. Only because I would black out and not know what was going on. Of course I only interpreted this as jealousy. Maybe he was guarding his interest. The long and short of it is that when I got drunk it all went up for grabbs.

When I got sober, it took some time for him to realize that I was serious THIS TIME! As the BB says, in MORE ABOUT ALCOHOLISM, I tried this and that and limiting and changing bars and changeing drinks and getting a job and ..... before I came to AA. Each day that I stay sober, TIME GIVES ME CREDIBILITY. Its been six years now. I'm still married. Husband loves me. He trusts me. He gives me his paycheck to pay the bills now.


Member: DebbieG
Location: FL
Date: 4/4/00
Time: 11:57:35 PM

Comments

Hi, Debbie--grateful alcoholic. It's my first time here on the web site. Julie--thanks for a great topic. WOW! Do I need to hear the great advice and reassurance our friends have been posting. What makes most sense to me (and I've read it some here) is that it's the act of giving amends that counts--whether the amends is actually accepted isn't what matters to our sobriety. I just have to keep in check that my amends are made truly and honestly (no hidden agenda or equivocation).

"Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...." Glad you ALL are here. Glad I'm here. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Brian B
Location: IL, on the Mississippi
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 12:07:38 AM

Comments

Hello Everybody, I'm Brian Alcoholic,

Ammends are a great topic and many of the postings have held similar sentiments to mine, that I truly felt a part of AA and on my way to recovery as I started making ammends. The best advice I ever got reguarding ammends was to have "good generalship." My sponsors' strong suite was not making ammends so when I felt I had exhausted his experience in this area I sought out AA's who had walked where I was going. I found as I prayed for courage and looked for guidance, God was always faithful and directed me to the teachers I needed. I found some guidance in unexpected places and the phrase "the message not the messenger" took on real meaning to me. The BB and 12/12 have great advise on ammends but after all the reading, discussing, planing, etc... dont forget to pray and accept the guidance and grace that comes from trusting "infinite God."


Member: sunny
Location: New Bedford, Mass
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 12:54:28 AM

Comments

This is an awesome meeting. I've read some great inspiring things about the continuing process of my 9th step which I began 10yrs ago. It's very important to do steps 1-8 first. Few of my amends were gracefully accepted. Nobody said I forgive you. Nobody said much of anything good. My sponsor had prepared me for that and I understood that I had to do it for my own spiritual growth. It was very important that I told the people my wrong doing and laid my cards on the table as it says in the 12x12. I tried to make it clear that I regretted my offenses. That is different than saying "I'm sorry". It was important to say that what I did was wrong. It is important that I offer to do what I can to repair the harm I've done. In the case of people who were long gone and unlocatable, I've written letters, sealed envelopes, and I hold those folks in my heart and prayers until the chance comes. The biggest amend I can make is to pray for folks I used to want to harm. As for what is going on with Tonyaduck.... If this is AA and we're talking about making amends, we've done step 4 and know how to handle a resentment...yes? We know the prayer on the top of page 67 because we've said it thousands of times as we've outgrown acting on resentments....Yes? So with a group as big as this praying for tonyaduck what do you bet that he would get the higher power's help with whatever the heck is really eating him? This is what we do,right? Right? We pray for the folks who tick us off.... maybe we also avoid reading what they say until they're ready to make amends?... or at least behave. Page 552 is also a good practice.


Member: Eduardo
Location: louisiana
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 1:43:42 AM

Comments

I am Eduardo alcoholic, drugaddict and an addict.I am relly grateful for you all input about "making ammends". I have been working this program for about 3.7 years,so I had to make ammends.Going thru restitution to the harm I have done alone is imposible, so I have been holding my sponsor hands and my fellows in recovery hands as well to gleen the support I am in need to be able to make ammends.The fellowship of the spirit works if we work it.I am a true example of...Tonight I have been praying to God to help me to keep making ammends for I have been making mistakes even in recovery . For me is easy to make mistakes and to hurt myself and others when I allow myself to go on EGO TRIPS, lately I have been going on one that took me to writte a hot check to pay my telephone bill because I got ashamed for having my phone service disconnected .I got in spiritual pain for I forgot to do God's will. God wants me to remain SPIRITUAL what to me means responsible,accountable,honest,sincere...EGO leads me to self destruction that is why I am here confessing what I have done for me to make ammends about it. I have read something tonight that it is helping me a lot to do this and face my problem and it is :"PRAY AND CONFESS BECAUSE IT IS BETTER TO FALL ON YOUR KNEES THAN TO FALL ON YOUR FACE".When I hit my bottom IN Sept./1996 that is how I felt like if I had fallen on my face ,it was really painfull. I do not want to feel it again. I do not want to use again,and I am not going to for I am here confessing my wrong to you so I am granting myself another opportunity to make ammends.This time to Bellsouth first of all, and second of all to myself for I am going to keep my integrity because God is with me and God does not want me to fall. Thank you all for your support I feel right deep in my heart that you are going to help me as well because God is in each one of you and we together are trudging the road of happy destiny.I have no idea what I have said but I am not going to read what I just wrote here for me not to fix what God wants me to express for me to get better and become a better human been only for one day. God bless you and keep you.....


Member: Cec H
Location: Snowtown cause thats what it's doing
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 3:23:25 AM

Comments

Cec H alkie, To make amends for me is to put right, With that said, All I can say is Ive done the best I can to put right the wrongs I've done. But there are some that I will never be able to put right. These I've learned to live with and forgive myself for and try real hard never to do agian. Sam J, walked out on my common-law & two daughters too, but did it for sobrity,tried to keep in touch, but she took them overseas, anyway to make along story short,got a call from the oldest daughter just before X-Mass, talked for hours, sent me pictures of granddaughter, my second daughter now lives in cowtown and we have coffee together twice a week. Can you say Graditude cec lol. Gary donn't know about this christianity thing, more into sweatlodges & dreamquest, but I do have a desire not to drink and thats all I need. Duckman donn't know what space your in but love you anyway{{ }}. Remember, If you've got one foot on yesterday and the other foot on tommorow then your pi@**# on to day


Member: Mary P.               
Location: Kentucky
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 10:07:36 AM

Comments

amends doesn't always mean apology. I was the original "I'm sorry " gal. I think is means to try to right the wrong. If I have lied about smeone, I try to go to the person I told the lies to and admit that I lied because of jealousy or whatever. I have not had too much luck with apologies. I travelled pretty fast and don't really know how many people I hurt. Mary, Ky.

MaryP. KENTCKY portermh@webtv.net I dom't un derstand. You have my name M.H. Porter


Member: Toddy N.
Location: New Mexico
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 10:48:39 AM

Comments

Hi there, I'm Toddy and I'm an alcoholic. I was afraid of making amends to some people because they didn't know I was the one who tried to hurt them while I was drinking. I found that by making amends to them I felt better and they did too. I think the best way to make amends to those close to you is to show them your desire to do right. You can say you're sorry a billion times but if you show a person you mean it it's a good thing. Don't forget to make amends to those close to you! A lot of people think of those in the past that have been wronged and walk right past those that have been beside you all the way. I told my husband how very sorry I was and after about 6 months sober he said,"It's good having you back in the family." I can't tell you how that made me feel! After almost 7 years sober now I am totally a member of my family, and they know how much I meant it when I said I was sorry for what I had done to hurt them. Last of all, MAKE AMENDS TO YOURSELF!!! We sometimes forget that, but we have to forgive ourselves for hurting ourselves. We must do this before we can truly heal. I went a long time beating myself up for being such a worthless drunk, like I had anything to say about it! Now I realize that my being a drunk is part of who I am and it got me where I am today. And I'm not such a bad person at all! I regret my past drinking, but I love me. I had to go through every thing I went through to be the person I am today. Thanks for letting me share. Thank God and AA for my sobriety.


Member: Hilary
Location: Washington State
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 11:53:32 AM

Comments

Hilary, alcoholic. Just wanted to thank everyone for the good shares, especially Sherry M. in CA. Your post made me tear up, it was that lovely. Thank you.


Member: George S
Location: Billings, MT
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 11:53:56 AM

Comments

I like this topic because I just finished learning an entirely new angle on the subject of amends. I recently celebrated 19 years of sobriety and am finally in a place of loving myself. I know that sounds odd but it is true and it took every bit of those 19 yrs to help me get to this place today.

When I first got sober I worked all of the steps very carefully with my sponsor and other winners in this program. My amends were going well and I thought I was pretty much on target with getting my life back together. Actually at that time I was doing just what I needed to do.

What I did not realize was that in process of "amending" my wrongs to others (family specifically) I was beating myself up and settling for alot of crap in my life. I thought making things right meant I had to sacrafice my own self happiness for the sake of making the amend. So I became very confused when after 15 years of sobriety I felt like total crap. I think I read somewhere on here about being true to ourselves. Well that is exactly what happened to me. I spent so much time trying to do the "right" thing for everyone else and screwed me in the process. I have worked very hard over the last 3 years to amend that and begin the process of loving and caring for me. It has been hard because there are so many who think I am wrong, especially my soon to be ex-spouse. I don't want to hurt her but I have finally reached the breaking point and I can no longer live my life constantly feeling guilty and trying to make up for my past transgressions only to have it used time and time again to keep me in line. I feel sorry for her because she really thinks I am responsible for her happiness. She just does not understand that her happiness is NOT dependant upon me and I am no longer willing to live with that kind of pressure or guilt.

So my amend today is being true to myself. I have done all that I can to make amends to the outside world and now it is time for me. I never ever thought making an amend to myself would be the actual turning point in my life.

It is a good feeling to honestly be free inside of myself. I no longer live in daily guilt or fear. Thanks for the topic and good sharing.


Member: Jason A.
Location: Cambridge, OH
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 12:01:06 PM

Comments

Hi, i'm Jason an alcoholic. I was wondering if i could get some feed back on the 3rd step. Sorry, i would give feed back on the topic but i'm not there yet. Well it's great to have found this web site, another thing to be greatful for. God Bless to ALl.

J.A.A.


Member: Tom S.
Location: So. Maryland
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 12:09:25 PM

Comments

MAKING AMENDS: After completing the earlier steps, finding out just what my part in amy situation was (basiclly just how uninportent I wasn't) ifound that I really didn't have all that many to make. The thing that made it easier was I had to remember what I was told about GOD foregiving me, tht if He could that I should be able to goregive myself. I found I was being too hard on myself (like we all can be). The important thing was it is not necessarily an apology, most of the time its just a simple mater of not doing what we used to do and doing the next right thing. For some of it I just had to pray and pray day after day, until I could finily live comfortabley in my own skin. (it worked) I hd to be reminded that while making amends I didn't cause further harm to others. For some like my familey I'll be making amends for the rest of my life. I just found this site today, my love too all. Stay sober, be happy, and have a lot of fun, that what we get sober for. Oh! by the way I know a guy in the program by the name of Bill W. (and he doesn't tyr to act like one of the founders) I didn't catch the commemts made by this one. God bless. bye for now!!!


Member: Mike M. M.
Location: Long Island, NYong Island
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 4:30:12 PM

Comments

I have been a practicing alcoholic for 15 years. I have had several legal troubles, lost jobs, lost girlfriends and estranged family members and friends due to my drinking. Currently I have not had a drink in 231 days although only the last 35 days have been outside of jail. I am proud of that accomolishment because I have not gone 35 days without a drink EVER, no less 231!!! I am well aware that the steps are to be followed in order however this topic really interests me. Making amends, no doubt, is difficult. But it is clearly one of the easier stepds. The most difficult is step one. It has taken me 15 years to makethat first step. AMENDS-the hardest amends that I see making are the amends to myself!! Forgiving myself is really hard to do. So for everyone making that eigth step remember that you must forgive yourself and make amends to yourself before you can even think about making amends to others. God Bless All OF You for the support you've given me through Alcoholics Anonymous!! [Just a quick note to saythat I have been typing in the blind. Notjing that I've typed is visible to me. I hope that I was able to type leghibly]


Member: Dave B
Location: Los Angeles
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 6:25:31 PM

Comments

I have been sober almost 8 years. As I left a panel last night another panel member stopped me and began to "BigBook Thump" me. I beleive in the big biik wholeheartedly but am not going to get into a quote sesion with another member if that's all he's got. He ask me a question about choice and when I told him I have one today he began to get right into the bigbook and quote. I felt just like I was being confronted by a person knocking on my door fro, a religous group try to tell me about the bible. Now I said I beleive in the bigbook but I also beleive there is more to sobriety than the bigbook has to offer as it was written a long time ago and has not changed since then. Ther is a lot of people out there with a lot of sober experience that I get more sobriety from theie experiences than the bigbook. I felt totaly uncomfortable and I do not want to go through that again. Has anyone been through this experience before and if you have what did you do about it.


Member: GREGG G.
Location: K., WA
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 7:36:50 PM

Comments


Member: Roy S
Location:
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 10:08:32 PM

Comments

Making amends is a good topic for me. I agree with what was said earlier about if you work the steps in order then the amends is much easier. When I hit bottom I began to think about how I could possibly amend for all of the things I had done, and if I had tried right then I probably would have hurt somebody, myself included. By working those first steps, by the time I got to steps 8, 9 & 10 I was much better prepared. I am just glad that AA was there to help. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Chris S.
Location: in the world
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 10:40:46 PM

Comments

The first amend I had to make was to me, I had to forgive myself the past, without that I could not move on to my new way of living. I understand the frusration of amends not being "taken well". But, we must remember that we make them because we ARE sorry for the things WE did, not because we want everyone to like us. I know that I did some pretty awful things to people as a result of my drinking, for me to expect everyone to forgive me is very unrealistic. The purpose for my amends is for me to accept complete responsibility for my past actions, emotionally as well as financially. So, if an amend doesn't "go well" I remember that forgiveness is only good if it is given voluntarily, that so long as I know what I did and accept responsibility and make restitutions to the best of my ability, and most importantly, live the amend. Then God will be with me. * note to the first post, we were all spiritually sick before we grasped the principles of this program, I shall pray for both of you.


Member: Roger A
Location: NM
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 11:30:26 PM

Comments

Dear "Friend of Bill W", I'm sure Bill himself wouldn't be so holier than thou. Why do you need to resort to name calling, and stir up stuff? Live and let live. Someone got your 'goat' allright. Let's not take ourselves too seriously ok. Anyway I have a friend named Bill W, and it's not the original. Bill is a popular name and W is one of only 26 letters. Anyway what's the big deal, nobody here speaks for anyone but themselves do they?Amends.... I made a signicant amend and it worked out so great I could hold my head up and wave to my neighbor again....a great feeling, never thought I'd release such guilt by being straightforward to a person I'd harmed. It was a very inspirational deal. Still finding more and more people I am remembering wronging...thought I had them all but it is a longer list than I first thought. I know when the time is right I go to the person and tell them I was wrong, I also told this neighbor about my decision to quit drinking , that I had determined I had a problem , this was no excuse for my behavior, just part of being honest. He took my apology and said he was glad I was getting it together. I had so feared facing this person, and now he is a good neighbor and friend again. Not everyone forgives me, but I can forgive myself once I come clean. And I still have a few layers of onion to peel. Lots of progress still required...on my part.


Member: DonF
Location: NH
Date: 4/5/00
Time: 11:34:47 PM

Comments

Don, grateful recovering alcoholic Just curious, (Dave B @ 6:25), what's a "panel"? By the context, I guess a BigBook "thump" is when someone tries to impress you by quoting and naming pages out of the BB?? I've seen that. Regional terminologies vary, I suppose. So should we fall to our knees before the one who has memorized? Did you feel like I used to (I'm far away from him now) feel when my drinking brother used to get a snoutfull and corner me or anyone handy, and recite his resentments about our parents, siblings, etc. ad infinitum? I always heard its Principles before Personalities. But the BB is a great resource, especially to read when we have a chance for some quiet time, and it's too late or too early to call someone, and I am in bad company, with myself, that is. The language is a little archaic, and the available chemicals may have changed, but the principles, the feelings, the attitudes, and the DISEASE of alcoholism have not changed one iota. The stories are parts of mine, yours, and others we've heard at the podium. Donaldo88@aol.com


Member: Chuck M
Location: Alberta
Date: 4/6/00
Time: 12:32:40 AM

Comments

I'm Chuck, an alcoholic. In steps 4 to 7 I am repairing myself. Step 7 infers that God has forgiven my past faults by His acceptance of me. Then I must also forgive me.

The BB then says "Now we go out to our fellows and repair the damage done in the past." This seems to me the 3rd leg of being restored to sanity. To be right with God, myself and my fellow man.

When I understood this it reduced my list to people I had actually harmed. Peace and Serenity


Member: robert j.
Location: sunporch
Date: 4/6/00
Time: 1:15:37 AM

Comments

Course the best amends I can ever make are the ones I do by living the steps, especially the last 3, once the first 9 are done. Just trying to live now the way I should have been living all along...had I known how...still takin it a day at a time, it's a great feeling to be ok with me today, and oh yeah this is a gift, take care.


Member: Ann J.
Location: CO
Date: 4/6/00
Time: 11:21:30 AM

Comments

Hi, Ann, Alcoholic Great Meeting. This is my first on-line meeting, and I'm a newcomer (Got my 2 month chip yesterday). I'm not at the amends step yet, but has been helpful. I've been projecting, and have been fearful of this step. Thanks for the honesty.


Member: Carol J
Location: Alberta, Canada
Date: 4/6/00
Time: 11:48:35 AM

Comments

Hi, I'm Carol and I'm and Alcoholic.

Amends. I love this part! I am just coming up to my first year and finally getting a small understanding of what this program has to offer. This is where I get to finally come clean on the wreckage of my past. This program is teaching me how to live as a better person and amends are a starting point. My sponsor told me that amends are not the same as apologies. All that I need to do is focus on "cleaning up" where I was responsible. My amends were for the benifit of my sanity and sobriety. Some can be done immediately, others will take time. Some will end on a positive note, and others will not. This is the next step in my house cleaning and the whole purpose of it is to clean off my side of the street. What the other person (for lack of a better word) chooses to do is up to them. I know that I am doing what is right and God's will is guiding me. Thank you for my sobriety. Another 24 to all!


Member: JJ
Location: WA
Date: 4/6/00
Time: 12:09:07 PM

Comments

I am JJ and quite the alcoholic. Boy am I in shock. Let me explain.

I have been miserable for well over a year now. I have not been able to shake these desperate feelings and boy can I relate to “Guess Who.” A while back, I finally decided to turn my will over to God or so I thought. I did all of the things mentioned in Guess Who’s posting. I worked the steps vigorously with my sponsor, I went to a ton of meetings, I volunteered for a bunch of service work, I prayed my behind off, I made amends to the man in the moon (well it felt that way), I went to counseling, I got heavily involved in my hobbies and the list goes on for days. While these things are all great things to do I have finally come to the conclusion that all I have been successfully doing is running away and hiding from the real issue.

So how did I come to this conclusion? Last month, I screamed out to God in complete desperation. “What the hell do you want me to do? What is it that I need to do? I have tried everything and my heart is still dying. Give me a message?” And I got my message yesterday. I went to the Coffee Pot site last night and read the posting from a silent poster about the “Story of Life.” Then I came here to the discussion meeting and saw what Guess Who and Stan B wrote. Wow, did I get the message loud and clear!

I have been asking God to give me answers over the last year but have ignored all of them. When I read that story of life posting which stated that people, circumstances, events etc. all come into our lives for a reason it finally dawned on me. I threw away and ignored all these things that God brought to me. All of which were His answers to my prayers. Stanley B put is so well about suffering from the “Should Syndrome.” I have been so caught up believing in all of those “shoulds” that everyone has fed me over my lifetime that I completely ignored what God was telling me in my heart.

Stan B, I also like your statement about having a broken heart because you denied God’s message. That is exactly where I am and I now realize it. My heart hurts so much because I keep denying what it is telling me, what God is telling me. I keep telling myself that it will all get better if I just tough it out. Well it isn’t getting better, it is getting worse! I scream out to my God and he sends his message and what do I do? Ignore it! What the heck kind of sense does that make? Well no more. I thank you all for letting me share but most of all I thank God for shutting me up long enough to finally get His message.

Sorry for getting off of the topic of amends.


Member: Michael H
Location: Illinois
Date: 4/6/00
Time: 6:14:57 PM

Comments

Hi I am Michael and I am an alcoholic. That says I am willing to work these steps and willing to have great friends who are sober and willing to hang out with a diverse set of friends and hear very personal intimate details about strangeers lives - which for some unknown reason are similar to my own inner life regardless of the differences in skin, age or whatever other externalities.

Amends is a great topic - thank you. I had lunch with a sponsee today who shared his 8th step list with me. what a great way to get motivated to do another. I have called my sponsor and told him I need to do another.

I am 15 years sober and feel as if I am just beginning to get it a little. Peeling the onion slowly and sometimes painfully. I have trouble changing my behavior (i believe the dictionary defines "ammends" as "changes" and "to fix") where I have designated myself as the victim. I have held on to that role for a long time and am reluctant to give it up. My desire is that the others will change so we can have the relationship that I want - - not life on lifes terms but life on Michael's terms. Slowly I am coming to be accountable for my own feelings and actions - and that requires me to amend my ways.. And I am in the process of doing just that and it is scary and feels good at the same time. I have similar feelings to how I felt giving up booze - if I don't do X that what will happen?? Well I am finding out that it allows other people to be themselves and not the demons they were or at least I believed them to be.

All this is hopefully leading me to a place where I can actually know what I want - as opposed to what i think I should want.

And in the meantime, I can stay sober and have a better life than I ever imagined.


Member: GREGG G.
Location: KENNEWICK, WA
Date: 4/6/00
Time: 7:45:57 PM

Comments


Member: kim s.
Location:
Date: 4/6/00
Time: 7:53:02 PM

Comments

hi all, my name is kim and i am an alcoholic. i was told that making amends should be done even if you still have a resentment at someone and you think they are the one owing you an "amend." the thing to say is "i had bad feelings toward you and I regret that." or "i was wrong.." i think this is the sort of maintenance version of step 8 as well, we have to keep making amends as we "owe them", not just when we formally do the 8th step with our sponsors. thanks for all your comments, it is good to read them!


Member: Michael B.
Location: Az
Date: 4/7/00
Time: 12:23:21 AM

Comments

Hi! My name is Michael, and I am a recovering alcoholic and addict, sober today only by the Grace of God and the Fellowship. Welcome to the newcomers! Thanks everyone for sharing! Congrats Ann J., and keep up the good work!

I've read a lot of good stuff here on this Step. I would only add that I think it's important to make amends under the guidance of a sponsor or other trusted spiritual advisor. Timing is important in making amends, as is knowing when and when not to make an amend.


Member: Alicia L
Location: San Diego
Date: 4/7/00
Time: 3:16:39 AM

Comments

Hi all, Alicia and I am definately an alcoholic. This is my first time on the site. Nice to know that some things never change about 'groups', even when they r on line. The topic of amends hits home with me. I started working on my amends as soon as I got sober. There were people in my life that I needed to tall about my sobriety when I first got sober. So with my sponsor's approval and made some calls. I apologized to these people, who were VERY important in my life (one was my mother, the other just like my mom). My sponsor gave me great instructions on these amends, It's a lifelong process. It is my job to be the best daughter that I can be to these women, for as long as they live. Well, In November of 1998, my mom died. I was in school fulltime, but didn't think twice about getting on a plane the beginning of November, knowing that I would return, after I had buried my mom. I spent the last 11 days of her life with her. I did little things, that she loved, like painting her nails, shaving her legs, washing her hair. She wasn't able to communicate, except through her eyes, but I can tell you that as I placed the wreath on my mother's grave, I KNEW this was one amends that I did right. There were rough times over the years, since I got sober in May, 1987, but in the end, I was the good daughter, she deserved. The anger topic I can also rlate too, since this Sunday is the first anniversary of a 14 yr old boy trying to kill me. It happened where I work and has changed my life. I am almost to the point of rage, but I just keep praying for them like the book says, and I know eventually the resentments will ease. It has always worked in the past and like the promises state, "sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly" so I guess I have to be more patient with this one. Thanks for having this site, I really needed it tonight. Alicia


Member: Dianne B.                              
Location: Oakville Ontario
Date: 4/7/00
Time: 10:57:00 AM

Comments

Hi my name is Dianne B. and I just completed 22 yrs of continuous sobriety yesterday. My dry date is April 6th 1978 and wow that is a miracle. Amends is a great topic. At first the only way I could make amends was to set an example by staying sober one day at a time. As time has gone on I have been able to make amends when the opportunity arises and that it does not hurt anyone. If there is someone that I feel I cannot make amends to at this time then I put it on a shelf knowing that at a later date I can take it down dust it or deal with it. It took us a life time to get here and I certainly cannot expect to deal with all the amends right away. Thanks for listening talk to u all next week. I am just new to the computer world Lets say an old dog learning new tricks but hey give me time I will learn just as I have learned in the program of Alcoholics Anonomous. see u


Member: Kim S.
Location: Michigan
Date: 4/7/00
Time: 1:07:33 PM

Comments

Hi all! Alcoholic named Kim, here. Making amends is how I clear the wreakage of my past; in order to feel better about the person I want to be. I was able to let go of guilt, fear, shame, & remorse when I went to the people I hurt and offered to "fix" the mess I had made. I can walk erect, again. I can face people and look them in the eye; not stare at their shoes. If they accept my amends, that's a bonus. If not, oh well. I'm not there to make them feel better-ONLY to clean up my part, so I can clear the path to my heart for my HP.

I was ALWAYS sorry after the fact....a self-described sorry SOB, but it never meant anything because nothing changed. I would do the same thing again, be "sorry" again, do it again......etc, etc; a vicious circle that I didn't know I was in, let alone how to get out.

As for the BB Thumper.....I am grateful to live with one. I may not like it when he quotes the book, but after I get over the initial anger, he is usually giving me the answer to my dilemma & I can work thru the problem. Thank God for AA, the people in it, & for being able to learn & grow thru the hard times without a drink/drug. Thanx for letting me share.


Member: Lyn
Location: Chgo.
Date: 4/7/00
Time: 4:12:35 PM

Comments

HI My name is Lyn and I'm an alcoholic. Julie your topic is wonderful. There seems to be alot of people out there with some ?'s if it is topic or a step. Be grateful it's a meeting about what ever! The fact that we can sit in our own homes and reach others recovering all over the world is pretty amazing. To complain about a topic is kind of petty, don't ya think! If it's that big of a deal go to another site and try to be grateful for your fingers. Get it! A little steamed---


Member: Ella C
Location: England
Date: 4/7/00
Time: 4:16:55 PM

Comments

My name is Ella and I am a recovering from alcoholic, self harm addict, compulsive spender and drug addict. I am also a human being, who is trying to give up the need to be perfect. I have been sober since September 1998. Sometimes that seems like far in the past, yet often it feels like yesterday. I have always felt alone even when I have been surrounded by people, and have always felt different from other people, isolated. For a while I tried to find reasons for why I was unhappy - I had no logical reason to be. I was never physically abused, my parents stayed together until I was 16 and an outsider could say I had a 'normal' family. I began self harming at the age of eight and drinking at thirteen. Each addiction I have led to another and at I had experimented with Cocaine and Speed aged 18. I never got into illegal drugs in a major way, but Painkillers supplied me with what I craved. As soon as I was able to obtain credit cards and loans at the age of 18 I compulsively spent more and more money. Much of it went on alcohol and also expensive clothes and beauty treatments, to keep up the flawless 'mask' I had began to wear. I tried to control the spending, just as an alcoholic may try 'controlled drinking' the result was inevitable- I couldn't control the spending and downed more pills and booze to 'cheer myself up'. This became a vicious circle and every few months I would consolidate my loans, and cut up all my credit cards. It was a matter of a couple of weeks before I would open another credit card or loan, as my cravings for spending were so strong. I did not see it in this way of course at the time. We addicts find many ways of justifying our behaviour to ourselves. My drinking was getting more frequent, and I could not walk into a pub to go for a drink unless I was already high. My rock bottom was when loan companies began to refuse me credit. It all happened at once and I realised that at the age of 21 I had £17,000 worth of debt to my name. I needed more to satisfy my addictions for drink and spending. I began to steal money from my employern to feed my addictions. This is somthing I am utterly ashamed of to this day, and I use that time of my life to use as a reminder of how bad it really was. I was in a position of authority and I abused it. I would like to think that I am an honest person and I do have a very good sense of right and wrong, which is why I still feel so bad. I was never found out incidentally, and it is a matter which will arise when I complete Steps 8 and 9 and make amends to those I have harmed. How I will do this I am not sure yet, but until then I cannot work other steps until I have completed the ones before them. I was in a treatment centre for a month in September 1998 and declared myself bankrupt in October of the same year (I was advised by my solicitor that bankruptcy would be the only way to clear so much debt in comparison to what I was earning, as any monies I paid back to the credit card companies, I paid the same in interest. It was like being on a treadmill and not getting anywhere)

I am now at University, which is something I have been wanting to do for a few years, though I lacked the confidence and funds to do. I would not be able to study for a degree if I was not sober, and recovery has given me so many other gifts as well; like being able to talk to people who understand and have really been there. I am grateful to my higher power for giving me the support that I receive everyday. I know that there are bad days and good days. On bad days, it is okay to feel down, but to keep working the program and use the phone. Keep safe


Member: charles & tony
Location: Napoleon, Oh.
Date: 4/7/00
Time: 4:35:49 PM

Comments

Does making amends always make a person feal better about themselves?


Member: Maryj
Location: Seattle
Date: 4/7/00
Time: 5:09:02 PM

Comments

Hi,

I'm Mary and an alcoholic. Making amends is a good topic, thanks for suggesting it Julie. I agree that making amends is a good way of dealing with the garbage in the past and getting it out of my system so I can get on with my recovery. Sometimes making amends can be difficult and sometimes it is just not possible if the other person is not willing. All we can do is make the offer of amends which is what is required of us.


Member: DonF
Location: NH
Date: 4/7/00
Time: 10:57:13 PM

Comments

Don, alcoholic Charles & Tony (just above)Yes, if wee have ben perfecly onist about the 8th step wee should feal better about making amends. But remember, "exept when to due so would harm them or others". Don't bring up stuff they didn't know about, which would be paneful for them too know. Make sure it isn't just so you can say you did the 9th, if it is at THEIR expence. But where they clearly know you hosed them, and you know it too, be coragess and onist, and make things right. They will respect you for it. And you will feal like you have really accomplisht something.


Member: Roger A
Location: NM
Date: 4/8/00
Time: 4:56:39 AM

Comments

I just made an attempt at an amend. It wouldn't have been right to go up to this person in person, not now, so I wrote a letter. That's kind of 2nd best but I thought I needed to do it. A letter of apology, and sincere admission of wwrongness on my part. I don't know if I did good or harm, if I'll stir up bad feelings or if this person will appreciate that I am sincere. Then I started thinking about some ulterier (spelchek) motives, so I guess I should have talked it over with a sponsor. Was kind of impulsive, but felt driven. I still get confused trying to figure out if my inspirations come from God or within my self will. Perhaps the test is the true motivation of the action. ANyway, Ifeel better about sweeping my side of the street, and hope to get a chance to amend further in person.


Member: LIONEL>C
Location:
Date: 4/8/00
Time: 5:17:27 AM

Comments

Hi my name is Lionel i'm an alcoholic G.Day Julie and all.Making amends seems like something i've been avoiding for a long time. Yet at the same time i've been doing since I first fell through the doors of this beautiful program.I seem to be able to make amends to those outsde of my family.Yet those that are near and dear to me I'm having trouble making amends to.I'm open to any advice because i believe the best is yet to come.I thank GOD and this program for you all Lionel.


Member: LIONEL.C
Location: Campbelltown.Australia
Date: 4/8/00
Time: 5:20:17 AM

Comments

Hi my name is Lionel i'm an alcoholic G.Day Julie and all.Making amends seems like something i've been avoiding for a long time. Yet at the same time i've been doing since I first fell through the doors of this beautiful program.I seem to be able to make amends to those outsde of my family.Yet those that are near and dear to me I'm having trouble making amends to.I'm open to any advice because i believe the best is yet to come.I thank GOD and this program for you all Lionel.


Member: Lynn S.
Location: OR
Date: 4/8/00
Time: 11:33:22 AM

Comments

I'm Lynn and alcoholic. What helped me most when I tried to make amends was the Serenity Prayer. Some will never forget some of the things I did and then there are those filled with rage and unforgiveness. I have had to make some amends to myself as well. It's not a step for sissies! Thank you for being here.


Member: Chris K
Location: Missouri, USA
Date: 4/8/00
Time: 2:32:51 PM

Comments

Hi, My name is Chris, and I'm an alcoholic (chorus: Hi, Chris!). I can relate to the man who is divorcing his wife after 19 yrs sobriety, but from the other side. I got married while pregnant, in my first year of sobriety. I always loved AA, and I pushed my husband to go to more meetings, get a sponsor, do a 4th, etc. When I was 12 yrs sober, my husband, also 12 yrs sober, got involved with another woman. We went to marriage counseling, I saw three therapists, we both took anti-depressants and I got a new sponsor, who sent me to Al-Anon. I fought it tooth and nail. I left no stone unturned to save my marriage. He was changing, as I had always urged him to do, but I didn't like the person he was becomming (he did). I said some terrible things to him. I became a mad woman. But I did not drink or use. I got heavily into service work; I started to change; I started to get a life. Finally, I decided that I wanted to divorce him. The divorce was final three years ago.

Six months after the divorce was finalized, he was moving out of state. I suddenly had the feeling I should make amends. I e-mailed him about a meeting (a safe way to communicate with your ex, BTW), and he e-mailed back, should he bring a body-guard, in case I wanted to try to kick him in the nuts again. I assured him my intentions were non-violent. Even though I still believed he was mostly responsible for the breakup, I told him I regretted a lot of my behaviors during our marriage. He just said we had probably both made mistakes.

He moved away, and we get along very well by e-mail, now. He keeps in touch with the kids (we have two: now 15 and 10 yrs old) by e-mail and visits once a year or so. About six months ago, I got an e-mail from him in which he acknowledged that is was mostly his fault our marriage and our family broke up. By the time he wrote that, I was finally ready to accept it, and to also know that it was actually about 50/50. I told him that.

I still go to meetings (not as many as I'd like, with my work and family schedule, which is why I'm here, on-line) and now have 16.5 yrs sober. He is still sober, too. I have no idea if he still goes to meetings, but I now know that is none of my business.

Interesting meeting. Tonydaduck reminds me of a tape I heard of Peggy M., who talked about a meeting in which a guy with a resentment mooned the whole meeting, repeatedly, from a row of those ground-level basement windows. She said if she wasn't there she would have missed the whole thing! Thanks for everything.


Member: Kimberl
Location:
Date: 4/8/00
Time: 7:24:45 PM

Comments

Hello everybody! I love this web-site because it is amazing just to see all the names and places of people in recovery. AMENDS. Well after 8 years sober I will say that I have not completed all my amends. I have completed them to the best of my ability. Today I work to live sober and be honest with myself and others and with God. I know that the program works and that making amends helped me to truly understand humility and gratitued for God and my sobriety. I know now that AMENDS are really for me and my relationship with God, whether those persons whom I harmed benefit, is not the point. AMENDS helps us to trust GOD, be grateful and take full responsibility for our behaviors. I love this program and really appreciate this website!


Member: Kimberly ww
Location: austin
Date: 4/8/00
Time: 7:25:18 PM

Comments

Hello everybody! I love this web-site because it is amazing just to see all the names and places of people in recovery. AMENDS. Well after 8 years sober I will say that I have not completed all my amends. I have completed them to the best of my ability. Today I work to live sober and be honest with myself and others and with God. I know that the program works and that making amends helped me to truly understand humility and gratitued for God and my sobriety. I know now that AMENDS are really for me and my relationship with God, whether those persons whom I harmed benefit, is not the point. AMENDS helps us to trust GOD, be grateful and take full responsibility for our behaviors. I love this program and really appreciate this website!


Member: tonydaduck
Location: Boston area
Date: 4/8/00
Time: 8:09:05 PM

Comments

(((Chris K.))) I am att a loss at why you attacked me in your post? Have I ever written anything to cause you to believe I am "against" you? Ane PLEASE do NOT use Swears in your posts.By the way, I notice you refuse to take responsibility for your FAILED marriage. You must of been a "Beaut" to live with. Still Placing the blame MOSTLY on your ex-hubby! And ya wanna kick him in the N--s? You are a sicko! Ya, its time for me to fight back in these rooms.....especially when a women i never met ( or ever said anything negative about) startss attacking me just so she can feel "part of the group" and feel accepted.You had better get some serenity ......like i have.........and love of your fellow-man......like i have.


Member: Chrissie McD
Location: Hull, MA (But Missin Southie Big Time)
Date: 4/8/00
Time: 9:11:21 PM

Comments

I had to jump in here...Ya know I think the hardest thing about recovery is the ability to look within ourselves to ask our own forgiveness...God knows we've hurt many along the way while we were "out there" and we do owe it to those we've hurt to make amends (and sometimes our efforts to make those amends are never accepted) but I truly believe that when I finally turned within myself to say I was sorry to me for the abuse my body took through alchohol and drugs - it made it so much easier to approach the others I've hurt along the way...this may not make sense to a lot of you...but it's worked for me this time around...and I've been in/out for ten years and now with my greatest time put together 2yrs5mo (whose countin' right I know) But I needed to share since I haven't been to a meeting in a very long time...


Member: AL L
Location: Canada
Date: 4/8/00
Time: 9:43:00 PM

Comments

Dear Torrydaduck Don't for heavens sake go away. Keep coming back. Get all of that negativity and garbage out and make room for love, patience and understanding to come in. Sometimes your comments and attitude are a bit annoying, but what the hell. We love you for what you are. By the way; what are you anyway? Never mind! God love you!


Member: Sierra S
Location: Canada
Date: 4/8/00
Time: 11:58:24 PM

Comments

I don't like going to AA meetings. Part of the reason is from what I have witnessed reading this site over the last month or so. For some reason it seems like people can't carry the belief that no one person is right and it is ok to agree to disagree. I have posted questions on other sites where the answers start out relating to the question, but then it gets into almost a fighting match between two people or more. It is really discouraging to someone who is on bumpy ground with AA and coming to sites like this. I had been hoping that internet sights like this may help me change my mind, but I am learning that I am better off trying to deal with things on my own than than trying to deal with some of the attitudes here.

To those who have made amends with your past so that you can strive towards the future you are to be commended, but many of you out there have a long way to go.

God bless each and everyone of you who have followed AA and achived what I am still looking for.


Member: P.D.
Location: out there
Date: 4/9/00
Time: 12:33:36 AM

Comments

THIS ABOVE ALL; To Thine Own Self Be True. And Then It Must Follow As The Night The Day, Thou Canst Not Be False To Any Man. W.S.

Think about it.


Member: Carons.
Location:
Date: 4/9/00
Time: 1:22:56 AM

Comments

As a 25 year member of A.A. and my first computer I thought I had found something special and exciting-I'm looking for postive, life is good,not easy but good,so why all the negative?


Member: Toddy N.
Location: Ruidoso Downs NM
Date: 4/9/00
Time: 2:03:07 AM

Comments

I don't know if I'm first or not but I think a good topic would be for each of us to say what we tell newcomers to help them understand AA, what helped us in the beginning, etc. I usually like to tell them what helped me. I didn't go to treatment, was afraid they'd never let me out, so I was on my own through the night sweats, the cravings, the guilt over my past, etc. Things that helped my physically were CHOCOLATE,CHOCOLATE, and CHOCOLATE! I also took lots of vitamins, my body was in bad shape and needed lots of supplements. I also drank a lot of water and other non-alcoholic drinks, I didn't try near-beer or any of that stuff if you are trying to quit drinking why pretend to drink? I spent a lot of time resting, reading the Big Book was great therapy. It was good to know that I wasn't alone. Another thing newcomers need is definitions of AA words. Many don't understand ESH,(Experience, Strength, and Hope:members share what it was like, what happened, and what it's like now) Sponsors,(How to get one, why we need one, and where they are), Big Book,(Maybe even purchase one for them if they're low on funds or loan one to them). We could explain the steps in everyday terms, etc. There are a lot of things newcomers need, and we are there to help them. I also felt left out after meetings, it seemed everyone was chatting with someone else and I was next to invisible, so make 'em feel welcome. ANYTHING we can do to help the new guy/gal will be appreciated by them, even if they're too nervous to say so. So there's my suggestion for a new topic, how do you help newcomers? If I'm not first, sorry! Take care everyone, love, Toddy, an alcoholic.


Member: tonydaduck
Location: USA
Date: 4/9/00
Time: 2:07:22 AM

Comments

i am sorry for my past behaviour and i will do my best to not repeat it. i promise to try to not hurt anybody's feelings this week. i've been such a pest, to put it mildly!


Member: Catherine W  aka  ramonacat
Location:
Date: 4/9/00
Time: 3:07:09 AM

Comments

Catherine here~Grateful to be a sober alcoholic!

A yes...amends! Just did 5 this week from a fourth I did several years back. Kept them for so long because I was sure I had no way of finding these folks. Wrong, Computer search! Found them all! To my surprise. Was able to make the needed amends and let go finally! What a relief! I really needed to do this now, as the old behavior pattern was starting to surface and I absolutely did not want that in my life today. The amends helped me put my life back into perspective and also to remind me that I am accountable today and responsible for my behavior. The old ways just don't work anymore. Thank God and AA.

PS (((Tonydaduck)))What's up buddy? You ok?


Member: Geri W
Location: Ohio
Date: 4/9/00
Time: 5:48:18 AM

Comments

Hi Toddy - sounds like a great topic, "how to help newcomers" because we all were one(some of us more than once). I can relate to your initial feelings about feeling excluded in the beginning after meetings. Took a while to let myself be included in those chats.

I suppose the thing I do most regularly when a new face shows up is to seek them out before or after the meeting, introduce myself, offer my phone number(to women) and tell them I am available to help them get settled into the group. I ask if there is anything I can do "right now" to make it seem more comfortable being here. Some are ready, others seem to brush it off, but look for me next time. I get some calls. I also give them a listing of all the local meetings/times/locations. If it is a guy, I try to direct them to someone who is willing(has shown it) to help newcomers. I offer to let them sit with me and will explain how/what is happening during the meeting. Most folks want to know the "rules" and it's confusing to follow the "program" without someone explaining what's going on.

BTW, I always get more out of it than the newcomer. Just like always.


Member: tonydaduck
Location: New England area
Date: 4/9/00
Time: 8:49:43 AM

Comments

DISCLAIMER: The post above (at 2:07am) is NOT from me. I do not feel any of my previous posts require an apology. I feel I have posted within the bounds of common human decency and the policy of this website.The person or persons who disagree with what I have previously posted are welcome to do so.....BUT,please do not post false posts under my name. I respect and honor your inaliable right to disagree with whatever I post. Know Thyself! Difficult to acheive in a complete way.......but a noble (on going hopefully) pursuit. I am human anf fail as often as I suceed,but I need not go around "confesssing" and whipping myself for being human, or so I will be accepted in these halls. I feel god has been good to me and I accept who I am and am trying to evolve into a better Homo Sapien without publicly flaunting some sort of "moral superiority" over other Homo Sapiens. This "morality" trip (like most things) can be taken to extreme and at the expense of other Homo Sapiens dignity.Live and Let Live. You do not like what I post? Just scroll on by! I have a right to post my opinion and you have a right to ignore it. I respect you......please do likewise toward me. If you do not choose to demonstrate respect for your fellow Homo Sapien I suggest you consort with your "HP". Just a suggestion. To all of you....God Bless You! May the god of your understanding be as loving and kind to you as the god of my understandinng has been to me.


Member: tonydaduck
Location: N.E.
Date: 4/9/00
Time: 8:57:35 AM

Comments

(((Catherine W.))) Yes I am "o.k." Thanks for asking. If your quetion is in response to that 2:07am post (above), I did not post it.


Member: catherine w aka ramonacat
Location:
Date: 4/9/00
Time: 10:12:50 AM

Comments

High,Catherine here.I need desperatly to make amends . To (((tonydaduck))) I am sorry that I posted a post under your name.I have stared drinking again and just went crazy.I had a slip.


Member: Shelli
Location: CA
Date: 4/9/00
Time: 1:47:06 PM

Comments

Shelli here recovering alcholic.

How to help the newcomer sounds like a really excellent topic. There are certainly many things I did as a newcomer to help myself but would not recommend them today due to the situations I was in, I did detox using nearbeer, I was living in a drug dealers home, was a friend at one time, I couldn't afford treatment, I too was afraid they would throw away the key. I had no family that would help and only knew one person in the program, I later married him at 2 years sober, but I do remember at my first meeting, people smiled at me welcomed me, did not pressure me in any way, told some of there personal stories, and the energy in the room was light, humorous and full of love, even though the stories seemed tragic. What I got out of that was a sence of safty. But there was one lady who did corner me and she asked me if I had drank that day? Of course I had, and she asked me if I could not drink just until the next meeting and if I could come to that next meeting and I said yes, hinse my first 24 hours, and in a nut shell thats what I do, try to make the newcomer feel welcome try to get them to not drink for just one day and come to the next meeting, I send lots of pamplets home with them, if they accept them then the seed has been planted and I become a familiar face, then they tend to get there bigbook, phonelist, and they usually save the sponsor thing for last, because I do suggest they watch people for awhile until they find someone they can connect with, some are sicker than others and I have noticed there seems to be those few who seem to prey on the newcomers innocense and before you know it someones drunk. Those few who are serious about there lives & who have really hit a bottom, tend to stick around for awhile and learn to start working a program, and of course for many slipping is part of there recovery, but I'm always there to have a hand out to help when possable, each and every newcomer has to figure out what works and doesn't because I have noticed we all know how to do it our own way once we learn the talk, then we have to learn the walk, and that isn't so easy, all I can do is be an example whether good or bad, I am not AA, I am only a member of a much larger organization, therefore just being there to keep the doors open is whats really important I tend to find that others like to jump right in and grab newcomers to sponsor and thats there part, usually I find when they ask me they have really hit a bottom, because I am a reall book thumper and we do it the BB way or not at all. Just keep coming back. A couple of things that I do suggest that really did help me were long walks and very hot showers. I ate a lot of candy bars too due to the withdrawels, its a surgar thing, however I wish now I hadn't. I put on 15 pounds in the first year of recovery but I only weighed 98 pounds when I got here so I was able to afford it, but today 14 years later and quitting smoking too, I'm just a little over weight for my hight 5'3 and could certainly loose those 15 pounds always more work to be done. (((Room hugs))) Shelli


Member: Tom H
Location: Flyover-States
Date: 4/9/00
Time: 5:19:36 PM

Comments

Hi everyone thanks for being here. I was involved in an issue with an extended family Member that has created a rift throughout my wives Side of the family. The reason for my actions were not unfounded, however my reaction was done in haste. In Discussions with family members they seem to believe I should have been above it.

The issue of amends in this regard is difficult for me. The individual involved is an addict and is well aware of the 12 steps. He is currently using, therefore I feel unwilling to make any amend. Other family members feel I should make an apology, I simple cannot.

I certainly understand that I should not let this person "Take up space in my head" and oftentimes I believe he does not/ (but I am writing about it, am I not) I have it in me to apologize for my reaction but the issue is really having no future involvement with this individual. I suspect my heart tells me I am really trying to please the other family members, and that I would not really be sincere nor completely honest.

That Goodness for a "Day at a Time". My sponsor, and old "keep it simple fellow," says it will come in time. Any thoughts. Take Care All.


Member: Toddy N.
Location: NM
Date: 4/9/00
Time: 7:22:25 PM

Comments

Is anyone going to change the dates at the top of these discussions? It's hard to start a new discussion like I tried to do above if nobody changes the dates and removes previous messages. Newcomers: Keep reading!


Member: Catherine W  aka  ramonacat
Location:
Date: 4/9/00
Time: 9:27:21 PM

Comments

Catherine here~~~the real one...sober alcoholic!

(((tonydaduck)))I believe you. I did post that last one of mine either. Guess we'll just have to let our friends figure these things out for themselves, or ask us! Glad to hear it wasn't you. Love ya!


Member: Catherine W  aka  ramonacat
Location:
Date: 4/9/00
Time: 9:30:28 PM

Comments

DID NOT POST THAT>>>>>thanks for your comments (((tonydaduck)))) hang around...the sick ones eventually get the message or they disappear out of frustration.


Member: bonzo     5/30/80
Location:
Date: 4/10/00
Time: 5:43:56 AM

Comments

Hi extended family, bonzo/alcoholic here, (((ROOM-HUG))) I really love you drunks and druggies that are here in the name of fellowship. AA is for those who want it, that's how my book reads. If you are not here to learn how to stay clean and sober or do not have anything supportive or friendly to say to another alcoholic or addict, please just lurk or leave us in peace. Join us when you are serious. My book tells me not to try and help you unless you want it. Maybe this is not the site for you. We had all the chaos that we could use in our drinking days. We are a fellowship of men and women that come together to help each other stay sober and share how we've achieved a sense of calmness in our lives. Most of us got here feeling like we were being consumed by the chaos and we were at the jumping off point. your petty squabbles are not appropriate here in Staying Cyber, share email addys so we dont have to listen to it. this page is only supposed to be shared on once by each person until our hard working, volunteering ((techs)) refresh it. if its not refreshed when you get here then maybe God has something here He would like you to see. Read the archives if this isn't answering your questions, the great techs at this site have compiled years of posts on topics that might interest you, if you are here to stay sober and gain peace of mind. If you are just here to see your own post printed, then I will say to you what my sponsor said to me, Your best thinking is what bought you your bottom, sit back and listen for a change until you have a change and if you're not willing to listen then you probably haven't hit your bottom cause you think that your answers will miraculously work this time. She made me think and that made me listen. My know it all attitude almost made me drink when I was 18 months sober, again at 3yrs, again at 7yrs, it did however help me lose everything that I held dear and important at that time. my kids, my home, dog, toys, job, etc etc. so please if you're not here to help, leave us room on this page so we can help each other. the web is full of sites that would consider you entertaining, this is not one. We help each other here. This is life and death people. Don't treat this disease lightly. I've seen it kill many even after they get here. Amends, see Step and Trad meeting post this week. helping newcomers, As my sponsor told me when I asked her how she did it, she said never pretend I know the answer to a question if I dont know, hug someone with a new face at each meeting, when we have a newcomer at a meeting, we usually pass around a meeting schedule and all the women or men write their names and phone numbers in the back and we give it to the newcomer. go early, stay late, there's always someone needing to go to coffee & talk before or after the meeting. I suggest having candy handy because of the alcohol turning to sugar in the system and the sugar with drawl, No alcohol whatsoever, not nearbeer with its .05% or 3.2% beer or ron rico with its 151%, alcohol is alcohol!! Don't bs yourself into thinking it's not, it will kill an alcoholic. When they call, I try to get to a quiet place and give them my full attention. We look things up in the big book together. my sponsor had me read 60 thru 63 and 449 thru 452 from my first day of sobriety, I still read it today to get right sized and suggest it often. I cancel plans sometimes when someone I'm talking to hasn't come to at least a few degrees of relief with a problem that they call me about. Even been late to work several times. They are the important one, the only reason I can have plans today is because someone took the time and energy with me. When I get called on a 12 step call, I grab a friend and go, never alone. I owe my life to this program for without it, I would have no life. suggesting service work,washing dishes, setting up chairs, making coffee,etc I found it helpful to have friends with the same amount of time that I had because my sponsor had forgotten about the intense head fog at first, and the tingles in the arms and legs when our bodies start to detox, etc etc but those going thru it shared that it was happening to them too and that made me feel more part of. I reached my hand out and they were there. They did not help me until I asked and would not until I did. and I asked alot cause I wanted all this program promised me on pages 83 and 84. I have had them all for a long time but the degrees that I have them have increased. My life is so good today, better than i had ever dreamed or even considered possible. It didn't happen in anyway I thought possible and nothing happened when I thought it should, always when It wasnt important that it did. then Whalah, there it was. Always had to Let Go and Let God but not till I fought tooth and nail to do it my way. I didn't know how to do it any other way for many yrs. Now I do. Hang in there till your miracle happens. Dear God please bless all who venture here. love and hugs, bonzo -- bonzoc@webtv.net


Member: Corinne
Location: Camino
Date: 4/10/00
Time: 7:24:55 AM

Comments

Corinne, Alcoholic here, there & nowhere in particular!

(((Bonzo))) as always - magnificent post

I'm having insomnia & just came in here to see a whole week of many Tonydaduck postings. Posting only once per week on this page (& the 12&12) is the suggestion: "The format for this meeting is a week long Topic Discussion. We ask that all sharing in this meeting be limited to the topic as it relates to your alcoholism and that each person try to share only once per week (this is not a chat room)" reprinted from top of page for your convenience. Posting to be kept to 300 words or less is suggested on the Coffee Pot because that page gets more traffic - again - read the top of the pages for the suggested posting instructions.

Amends is certainly a topic and this page need not be limited to topics that don't involve the Steps (or Traditions, for that matter), for these are the basic concepts that form the very foundation of the whole program of AA. For goodness sakes, Bill & Bob must be turning in their very graves!

I was very upset to see a newcomer or 2 say that what they found on this site (as well as other AA-related sites) has turned them off to ever going to an AA mtg. That is truly an absolute shame, because these folks obviously came in seeking help and, finding none, have decided AA cannot help them and that they must help themselves, which we who have tried that route to stay sober for any length of time, know it is futile - it tells us that in the Big Book, as well.

I would like to make amends to all the newcomers coming here on behalf of certain fellow posters who purport to be sober, yet by what they are posting here are obviously having a difficult time and seem to be saying things and doing things that are what we like to call "coming out sideways." This does not mean the person is bad, just the behavior. I try to keep these things separate, as it helps when I practice forgiveness.

One key issue in Amends, is the ability to forgive others. Until I can do that, how can I possibly expect others to forgive me?

As for starting on a new topic. Until the page has the new week's date posted at the top, the techs have not had a chance to restart the page for the new week. Once they do, and the page is completely empty, then and only then can the new topic be grabbed onto, because anything posted at the bottom of the old week's topic will be wiped off by the automatic restarting process (by the techs once they get to us). Be patient.

Hopefully, Toddy can get back first to post "How to Help Newcomers" as a new topic, because it is a very good topic.

It would appear that we are not carrying the message to the newcomer very effectively by having rantings & ravings to and from each other in response to posters who are abusive on this site. Cross-talk of this nature would certainly not be tolerated in a live meeting of AA, yet it is an unfortunate fact of this venue. I would encourage our newcomers to ignore the negativity, and call AA in your local area. Real live AA meetings are nothing like what is presented here. In fact, I would urge newcomers to leave Internet AA alone for awhile, or if that is not possible, to just watch for the positive words, as those are the folks truly working the AA program as it is meant to be worked.

By the way, it is true, if you ignore something long enough, it will disappear. I keep hoping that will be true with my own insomnia!

Keep a good thought & a smile in your heart!


Member: Corinne
Location: Camino
Date: 4/10/00
Time: 7:25:24 AM

Comments

Corinne, Alcoholic here, there & nowhere in particular!

(((Bonzo))) as always - magnificent post

I'm having insomnia & just came in here to see a whole week of many Tonydaduck postings. Posting only once per week on this page (& the 12&12) is the suggestion: "The format for this meeting is a week long Topic Discussion. We ask that all sharing in this meeting be limited to the topic as it relates to your alcoholism and that each person try to share only once per week (this is not a chat room)" reprinted from top of page for your convenience. Posting to be kept to 300 words or less is suggested on the Coffee Pot because that page gets more traffic - again - read the top of the pages for the suggested posting instructions.

Amends is certainly a topic and this page need not be limited to topics that don't involve the Steps (or Traditions, for that matter), for these are the basic concepts that form the very foundation of the whole program of AA. For goodness sakes, Bill & Bob must be turning in their very graves!

I was very upset to see a newcomer or 2 say that what they found on this site (as well as other AA-related sites) has turned them off to ever going to an AA mtg. That is truly an absolute shame, because these folks obviously came in seeking help and, finding none, have decided AA cannot help them and that they must help themselves, which we who have tried that route to stay sober for any length of time, know it is futile - it tells us that in the Big Book, as well.

I would like to make amends to all the newcomers coming here on behalf of certain fellow posters who purport to be sober, yet by what they are posting here are obviously having a difficult time and seem to be saying things and doing things that are what we like to call "coming out sideways." This does not mean the person is bad, just the behavior. I try to keep these things separate, as it helps when I practice forgiveness.

One key issue in Amends, is the ability to forgive others. Until I can do that, how can I possibly expect others to forgive me?

As for starting on a new topic. Until the page has the new week's date posted at the top, the techs have not had a chance to restart the page for the new week. Once they do, and the page is completely empty, then and only then can the new topic be grabbed onto, because anything posted at the bottom of the old week's topic will be wiped off by the automatic restarting process (by the techs once they get to us). Be patient.

Hopefully, Toddy can get back first to post "How to Help Newcomers" as a new topic, because it is a very good topic.

It would appear that we are not carrying the message to the newcomer very effectively by having rantings & ravings to and from each other in response to posters who are abusive on this site. Cross-talk of this nature would certainly not be tolerated in a live meeting of AA, yet it is an unfortunate fact of this venue. I would encourage our newcomers to ignore the negativity, and call AA in your local area. Real live AA meetings are nothing like what is presented here. In fact, I would urge newcomers to leave Internet AA alone for awhile, or if that is not possible, to just watch for the positive words, as those are the folks truly working the AA program as it is meant to be worked.

By the way, it is true, if you ignore something long enough, it will disappear. I keep hoping that will be true with my own insomnia!

Keep a good thought & a smile in your heart!


Member: tonydaduck
Location: sunny and sereine New England
Date: 4/10/00
Time: 7:39:17 AM

Comments

Good Morning all you lovely sober people! (((Toddy))) good topic! To anyone new in here:Please do not use this site as an EXCUSE to drink again.If you find that some posts in here are a "turn-off",then just scroll past them.DO NOT pretend you drank or never went to an AA meeting because of something you saw in here.That is justt plain bulls--t and the product of a person thhat is suffering from a lack of sleep.To all homo sapeins in here(drunk or sober): I love you and wish you the very best on your quest to serenity.May the god of your understanding be as loving and kind to you as the god of my understanding has been to me.I am one very grateful alky!.......Bon Journo!!