Member: George C.
Location: Columbia, MD
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 1:12:53 PM

Comments

Hi everybody, I'm George, lifetime alcoholic.

I just came from a great 11th Step meeting with some good sharing on peoples' relationships with God. Something really hit home, and then I didn't get a chance to share, so I'm wading into this group to do so...

It struck me that I haven't thought enough about the meaning of the phrase in the Second Step "...a power greater than ourselves..." For a long time I've had what I consider a good relationship with my "higher power," or "God," and I credit the quality of that relationship to having come to a new understanding of God as a loving, kind, forgiving, patient, etc. being.

In spite of myself, I had still thought of the word "greater" as meaning bigger, or more powerful, or more vast, or what-have-you. But that could describe a lot of things. Electricity is "greater" than I am, as are nuclear weapons, automobiles, the Republican party and mountains, but none of those things are likely to restore me to sanity (well, maybe mountains, but that's another story).

Then I thought about the God I grew up with, the one who punishes if you're bad, loves you only if you're good, chooses some people over others, apparently, at times, at random, does incomprehensible things and tells you you're not worthy to understand, claims to be all powerful but can't stop bad things from happening, demands prayer and loyalty but turns a deaf ear to what's really important (to me).

And then I thought, wait a minute, that is not a power greater than myself. I can do all that stuff, and I certainly did when I was drinking, and, left to my own devices, I still would and do. What's so great about that? And it certainly can't restore me to sanity. In fact it was my insanity!

Through the program of AA, I have gradually begun to develop an understanding of a power that is greater than myself, a power that can restore me to sanity. I call this power God for lack of a better word. I tend to subscribe to the old Jewish tradition of a power that can't be named, that can only be diminished in the naming. I think of this power not as an entity, but as a verb, action, energy. I can't name it, and I can't describe it or explain it, but I can do it. How? By observing other people who are doing it. By coming into the rooms and watching and listening to other people. In varying degrees, the people in AA reveal God by their actions. I want what they have, and I've learned to do what they do, and that's what the program is about for me.

A few years ago, I came on a single sentence in a novel by Cormac McCarthy (The Crossing) that summed all this up, and it still does: "In the end we shall all of us be only what we have made of God." When I made of God an angry, judgmental, vengeful megalomaniac, guess what I was. As I come to understand God as loving, forgiving, merciful, nurturing, guiding, I come to have more of those qualities myself. I have a long way to go, but as long as I keep watching and learning from the people who manifest those same qualities in what they do, I will stay on the path.

Thanks for letting me share.

gc 1/24/82


Member: iris
Location: amsterdam
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 2:02:42 PM

Comments

Thanks for the topic.Hi Iris here grateful to be sober on a sunday evening.I guess the topic is about the relationship with God. I really liked that about 'what we've made of God' It takes a great effort for me to imagine that God is love and good and so. Because I ain't to myself, nor to you,(mmh! in thought most of the time since i'm in the programme) it just takes practice! There wasn't at all love in my life when i was drinking at least not from my point of view and if you tried to love i couldn't let it in. Because i wasn't interested in love but in a drink. Today it's one of the most difficult things in my life, when it comes to it, to love myself as i think God might do- i only can think this most of the time, drink HAS damaged me, and it is hard for me to let the feeling in. And i have to be reminded and go to meetings or i so easily slide back in old, not so loving patterns... I'm very happy that i could share;thanks.


Member: Carol S.
Location: New Jersey
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 3:33:23 PM

Comments

Hi. Carol Alcoholic. I have always believed in a higher power but didn't believe in how churches dictate how you should believe. My higher power has seen me through so much. Everytime I face a challenge I remember what my counsler told me. "He" didn't bring you this far to dump me now. It's very easy for me to forget who's in charge of my life. Everyday choices are put in front of me, and I always try to go with what feels right in my gut. When I follow that feeling it always works out for the best for everyone involved. When I force my will, all kinds of problems surface.

I have recently, because of my 2 1/2 yr. old daughtor, tried to reconnect with religion and when you stop being defensive and listen, it amazes me how much program is in the churches teachings.

I don't want to scare anyone who's new. It took me 9 yrs. to get to this point. This is just one small part of the program and sometimes takes time. It's ok not to know what to believe when you're new. I made my group my higher power when I was new. What ever works to keep you sober.

Thank you for letting me share. I love this site.


Member: Jennifer M
Location: Northern California
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 3:39:35 PM

Comments

My name is Jennifer and I AM an alcoholic,

Nice topic, relationship with God. I've been sober for just a little over 10 months now and I am just getting to know my higher power. Mostly I talk to Him, as has been my pattern for the last 24 years of my life. "Help me, help me, help me...Please just get me out of this one". That is changing, I have been working on listening in the physical world and I am trying to practice it it with my Higher Power as well. It's hard. I always want to be in charge. But I took a small step in trying to clear the pathways between the "sunlight of the spirit" and myself last night. I took the 3rd step with my sponsor. I flaked 4 weeks in a row trying to take this step. Not really because I am afraid of giving my will & my life over to God because I want that. More because I am afraid of facing the 4th. But I can wait no longer, the fear in it's many forms, as well as resentament, anger, self-centeredness and self pity have begun to take over and I can not function with those feelings without a drink. I have to do something about it, thank you God for the gift of desperation, I move at the speed of pain! My memory is coming back and with it the realization of a lot of the harm that I have done to others. Seeing the harm I had done to myself was never really a problem, I have always been full of sel-pity. Anyway, I am beginning the process of clearing the wreckage and hopefull with my side of the street a little cleaner, God will have a better chance of reaching me and giving me the gift of doing His will, my only hope hope of having peace in my life.

I hope I made a little sense. Thank you for listening.

A desperate and grateful alcoholic, Jen M.


Member: Keith S
Location: Illinois
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 4:35:22 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Keith I'm an alcoholic, I've never had a problem with a HP, though recently my view has been slighty blured.Different concepts, and other view point have me wondering. Not to mention the changes going on in my life. I know God is there, I pray all the time, keep having questions, got more questions than answers. Iknow the answers will come in time, Gods time not mine. I've got to keep telling myself that. God beleives in me and loves me why else would we all still be here.Just because I don't understand all thats going on around, doesn't mean there isn't amuch greater plan. He did'nt bring me out of hell for no reason, I pray someday I might have a small glimps of what I'm to do.


Member: laura gray
Location: by the sea
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 5:55:32 PM

Comments

Hello everyone, Laura alcoholic here. Thank you for the topic. I am one of those lucky people who has always believed in God and the entire spirit world, so that was not a bridge for me to jump. For me, there was always something bigger than me for confirmation-like the sea or St. John the Divine-or even the smallest calm in the center of a storm when I knew God was looking out for my best interest. As I have gotten older, I realize that even the painful things in my life were necessary for the gift or result that would take me to the next right step. I was given the gift of AA because I was willing to surrender, and that could not have happened without God. I have a program of life that is a gift, and just another example of God's presence in my life. When I walk the beach,having prayers and coffee to start my morning, not a day goes by without the first prayer being thank you God for all the good, and I could use a little assistance with the bad. I feel lucky to have this connection on-line, and when I am having a bad day I check to see what you have shared and that's just another example that God is alive and well looking out for all of us. Thanks


Member: Lee
Location: East Coast
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 6:25:00 PM

Comments

Hey Staying Cyber Techs...Why do you guys always erase the first topic posted for the week. I posted on topic at 1:00 a.m. this morning and here we are on a completely different topic because you guys just erase everything without looking to see what the first post is. Sorry for getting upset everyone, but I am sick of trying to post a topic for discussion only to get it ignored by the techs. My original topic that I posted when I was the FIRST to post today was "rigorous honesty."

George C., I have nothing against your topic of God but for those of us agnostics/athiests it is limiting. I am in desperate need of hearing people share about rigorous honesty as I have been faced with an abundance of dishonesty during the last year. It has become alarming to me that many people who say they have a long time on the program remain dishonest. Many have even tried to justify it by making comments like "oh I just don't want to hurt anyone so it is OK."

I don't mean to put 2 topics out there but I really would like to hear how some of you out there maintain rigorous honesty in your program and every day life.

Thank You.


Member: Sue V
Location:
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 7:30:04 PM

Comments

George, what we find works best is we take our inventory and not that of others. Cgange is difficult whether it is life happening to us or the cyper topic of the meeting changes. Sponsors are helpful to sort these kind of things out. The most important ting about honesty I know after 12 years of continuous sobriety is that its my honesty to myself. The back of the coin says "to thy own self be true". I cant control what other people in the program do, but I do have control over myself. Guess there are a few topics there to think about.


Member: Corinne
Location: Camino, CA
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 7:42:08 PM

Comments

Hi Everyone, I'm Corinne, Alcoholic here, there & everywhere!!

First, to Lee - I think what happens is that the Techs "roll over" the site as soon as they can on Sundays (not necessarily right at Midnight EST). Unless you post your topic when the board is absolutely cleared away from the previous week, it will get wiped out once the Techs roll it over. Other problems arise, too, such as when the server gets frozen, and they have to start it fresh (I think) by clearing it out to get it unfrozen.

I really want to thank George for his topic and Lee, for your topic, too. George really hit on so much of the way I have viewed the concept of Higher Power since I first was guided to AA in 1986. Good to know I'm not alone in that train of belief system.

I was doing the secretary functions at our Noon mtg today, and the chairperson I selected asked as a topic what other steps or tools we take or use to stay sober. Well, that opened up a couple of folks to talk about things such as going to Church, bible studies, and whether smoking cigarettes ought also be stopped when trying to stay sober. Guess it hit this one guy the wrong way, for he didn't want to hear about what he considered to be outside issues. I look at it like this: every aspect of living life on life's terms, whatever each person's specific issues may be, are the very things we need to address in order to stay sober. Some of those issues may need to be addressed with a sponsor only, but until someone is allowed to ask about them in a meeting, especially when they are new, how will they ever learn what is appropriate to share in a meeting? Tolerance & patience, as well as honesty, are things that my HP can help me to learn & practice; for when I'm charging full steam ahead under my own power, I'm in my will, not my HP's.

I ask each morning for HP to help me be the person he needs me to be in his world today, so that I might be able to help whoever it is he may need me to help in his world today. This prayer reminds me that I'm not in charge of knowing how I need to behave, that this is not my world, and that there is someone else out there who has needs greater than my own that HP may need me to help. HP's needs are certainly greater than my own, for that matter.

As for honesty, by picking up the tools this program has to offer, and putting them into practice in my life, I can't help but get honest, if I am truly taking the suggestions and following them. Getting honest with myself is sometimes harder than getting honest with others. The steps are designed to help me get right with HP, get right with myself, and get right with others. If that ain't happening, then I'm missing something and I need to start over, whether I drink again or not.

Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Neil H.
Location: Alberta, Canada
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 7:55:49 PM

Comments

Hi friends. My name is Neil and I'm an alcoholic.

Great topic George. Today I DO believe in a power greater than myself. I can't see it or touch it, but I know it is there. I don't really understand my Higher Power, but isn't that the way it is suppose to be? If I knew or thought I knew all about my Higher Power, isn't that like suggesting I'm as smart as my Higher Power. And if I'm as smart as my Higher Power, why would I need it? I could be my own Higher Power.

My 17 years of daily drinking was the direct result of thinking such thoughts. I was the centre of the universe!I thought I was a higher power! And my life was in shambles as a result of that kind of thinking.

A power greater than myself today I call God. Not the same God in my youth that punished me if I did this, that or the other thing. But a Loving God that will forgive my Human errors. I fully believe that if I try to live each day the way my God wants me to, then God will forgive my defects and faults, because He knows I'm trying my best but am only Human.

My God doesn't ask much from me. Asking for help in the morning to stay sober, and giving thanks at night. My God wants me to live by the Golden Rule, and treat people with kindness and respect. My God wants me to live with "Good Orderly Direction", or god (small g) for short.

When I entered the fellowship, I didn't find my Higher Power right away. I made my sponsor and my group my higher power. After all, they were sober, and they were keeping me sober. As I grew in the fellowship, becoming of clearer mind, spirituality found its way into me. I started seeing more good than bad in people, even the one's that in my drinking days I despised. I use to get drunk because of them and at them!. But as my spirituality grew, towards others as well as myself, my understanding of a Higher Power became clearer. I know what my Higher Power wants from me today. And it is keeping me sober!

I'll never understand my Higher Power completely, and that's fine with me. I'll continue to grow nearer to my Higher Power through readings, prayer, and meditation.

My belief in a HP is important to my sobriety, my understanding of this HP is NOT!

Thanks for letting me share my views.

I wish everyone another 24,

Neil H.


Member: Melissa F
Location: Northeast
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 9:51:49 PM

Comments

Hello all.My name is Melissa and I am a very frightened addict and alcoholic. This disease is so powerful in me right now- I often liken it to being "possessed". One minute it is telling me that I can "do this"- that tomorrow I will put the substances down and I will begin anew. The moment I open my eyes the next morning it's yelling at me to get the hell up and pick up. The relality is is that I feel so hopeless that I could live in my house with my dogs and never come out ever again if the opportunity should arise. I don't believe that there is some life out there that God has planned for me. I truly feel that somehow I was kept off the list. The word my didease likes to use is "EXEMPT". How does one begin to take on something that powerful? Some of you might think, "Let go and let God". I can't find him. And I'm dying in the process of looking for him. I need a miracle.


Member: Stanley B
Location: Delaware
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 10:35:14 PM

Comments

Hi Stan here an alcoholic. Lee I would like to say that I know just how you feel. I tried on many occassions to post a topic for discussion only to have it wiped out. I personally have given up. I have seen where the techs have saved the first posted topic, so I know that they have the ability to do that. Why they don't I can't explain. Honesty is a topic I wish to discuss also.

Dishonesty was a part of my every day life for a number of years. And then something happened that changed that routine. I GOT SOBER! I will not say that I became a saint once I stopped drinking but I will say that it became more and more difficult to maintain any peace of mind or heart while being dishonest. It took me many years to get out of the habit of just down right not telling the truth. The fact is that sometimes the truth hurts and pain was always something I went to any lengths to stay far away from.

Finally, I got wise with the help of many. I realized that playing games and pretending as a way to appease others was doing nothing but causing more harm. I had to face the truth about who I was, what I wanted, where I was going, etc. I had to come to grips with the fact that some of this honesty was going to hurt (me and/or others). For me today it boils down to one thing and that is being true to myself. Listening to my heart and trusting that when it yearns as it has and still does, it is telling me that I am denying it happiness and fulfillment. When I finally listen and take the necessary steps to accomplish whatever it is I must face, it has NEVER failed me.

I believe that God is in my heart and if my heart yearns and aches, it is His message to me. And you can trust that He will continue to send messages until we listen. I can guarantee that! So honesty for me comes down to this one phrase 'to thine own self be true.'

Thanks to all for being here and letting me share this week.

Stanb2001@aol.com


Member: rb
Location: cent
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 10:56:18 PM

Comments

Melissa, there may be a miricle in Valley Hope. See, valleyhope.com or e-mail recovery@valleyhope.com ...Miricles do happen if you let them.


Member: Bonnie C    5/30/80
Location:
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 11:13:39 PM

Comments

hi extended family, bonnie/alcoholic here (((ROOM-HUG))) so happy to be here with you. Hi ((george)) thanks for sharing.

My concept of a higher power. A week before i got here I was sitting on my couch, budweiser in one hand, remote in the other, changing channels. When this guy on this religious channel came on and said, If you want Christ in your life say this prayer, so I turned the tv off, say the prayer and added, God if you're there, take me and make me a productive human being or let me die. I was just sooo tired of my life. nothing happened, turned the tv back on and had another beer. But you see my higher powers timing is perfect. He heard and set things in perfect order. My timing is I want it all and I want it now. His is everlasting, mine is the quick fix. A wk later, I entered the doors of AA where those folks told me what I needed to hear. That I was now responsible for my sobriety. Until I entered those doors, I wasn't for I didn't know how to stay sober and clean. He shares alot with me thru you beautiful drunks. the second nite in the program I started to hear about a higher power, I asked a lady about it and she said just know you have one and talk to it. give it a groovy name. so as I lay on my bed that night contemplating this name I vividly remember that prayer a week before. that was kind of a burning bush for me. Anyway, a couple weeks later, 12 days after I got sober, a chaplain came to my door to break the news that my mom was dead. I asked him in and sat with him awhile. because i wasnt crying, he thought i must be in shock (pink cloud) so he asked if I had someplace to go or someone to call, I said a noon AA meeting, to that he started chuckling, he shared with me that he'd been sober 6 yrs, and wasnt even supposed to be at work that day, just stopped in to pick up some papers and they asked him to deliver the news to me. he said that the Lord works in mysterious ways and then we did the Serenity prayer and the Lord's prayer and then we both went to that meeting. So my concept of a higher power was very evident in my first few days of sobriety. The relationship has changed over the yrs. and I even tried going *Out on a limb* with an author, only to feel the emptiness again of being without my God. The trip back wasn't as easy as the first but I'm back with a new respect for Him.

This could have read, got sober, mom died 12 days later and I got drunk, but it doesnt because those people at my first few meetings told me to look for my miracles, look for the hand of God in all my affairs. they told me to remember times in which He was there and I had been oblivious. My whole life has been filled with miracles from my Higher Power. I just had to look for them. Each yr I'm sober I give Him more and more of me to work with. It wasn't easy to start trusting and having faith. Even though the facts were in that He was there. I could go on and on with miracles that have happened in and before sobriety. I know He exists, I know He loves me and I know He loves you too. Anyway, dear hearts, thanks for being here. Dear God please bless all who venture here, love and hugs, bon -- bonzoc@aol.com

almost forgot, my HP has three answers for any prayer, Yes, No and Wait


Member: bc double dip
Location:
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 11:32:24 PM

Comments

dang, where the heck did all you people come from??? LOL ((((((hugs))))))) to yu all. george was the only one here when I started posting, do-do do-do do-do do-do humming twilightzone music here LOL, love u all, bon


Member: Louda
Location: AriZona
Date: 2/6/00
Time: 11:58:22 PM

Comments

Thank you Lee for your topic. I am also dealing with much dishonesty in life right now. I guess your post was meant for me and I thank you. My friends and sponser have been telling me to open my eyes because I have been seeing only what I want to see. But now I am starting to see exactly what they are talking about. There have been many contridictions lately and I am finally recognizing them. I guess your post was Gods message to me that I am on the right path and my eyes are wide open. Thank you again


Member: Inez S
Location: GA
Date: 2/7/00
Time: 12:29:57 AM

Comments

Inez, here, Alcoholic Good Topic..."relationship with God"

Today, I know what that means, only because I havn't had a drink. I have been in consious conact with the booze in the past, and the result was nothing....until I let go and let "God" take the reigns in my life.

I don't always know where I'm going, but I know who to follow today. I know where "my ways" have led me and I don't want to go there again.

Today, I say Thank-you, God, for showing me a better way of life. Thank-you for the sunshine and the rain. Thank-you for holding onto my hand when I was to low to remember to pray....and when I forgot you...I thank-you God for never forgetting me.

Love and Hugs to all.....Inez


Member: ChuckM
Location: Alberta
Date: 2/7/00
Time: 4:22:08 AM

Comments

I'm Chuck, a recovered alcoholic. Both topics hit home with me. In chapter 4 of the BB It says " do you now believe, or are you willing to believe" that there is a God.That is all that's needed to make a start. God's way is usually the simplest way.

I came in with a punishing GOD. He didn't like me and was blocking me at every turn. I could not move forward with this belief -- that I had never examined.

In ch 5 of the BB before the 3rd step prayer it suggests my relationship with God as a loving father and a child. When I thought about what I wanted for my children it was all positive and not hurtful in any way. If a poor slob like me would not hurt my children why would my heavanly father[creator,designer] who is perfect hurt me one of his children. I have now swung 180 degrees in my believe. God DOES NOT hurt his children. All negatives I use to attribute to God are rather caused by mankind practising free will.

I now look at honesty in a different light. It is the opposite of dishonesty, one of our basic character defects found in step 4. Dishonesty is one of the symptons of our insanity. By the same token honesty is a sympton of our spirituality. If I practise step 11 and keep a concious contact with God then by default I must be honest. [unfortuanately we are not perfect]

I certainly enjoy this site and I hope newcomers will find the program outlined in the BB. I ask God to grant you all the Peace and serenity that I have found in this program.


Member: Jean-Claude T.
Location: Belgium
Date: 2/7/00
Time: 5:14:02 AM

Comments

My name is JC and Iím an alcoholic.

Thanks for the topic George.

A power greater than myself, uh? Yes there are lots of them! But to be aware of that, I first had to sober up. I thought I was almighty (I could stop drinkiní when I wanted!), my ideas were the best, I was the center of the universe, ... well I suppose you know the rest, donít you?

Iíve had to admit I was being beaten by alcohol, and ask AA for help, to become aware there were powers greater than myself who could help me stayiní away from the drink, one day at a time; and later to help me livin' a happy and decent life. It all began with those 10 ex-drunks around the table.

Thanks for letting me share. jc.toller@euronet.be - ICQ 36308407.


Member: Kieren K
Location:
Date: 2/7/00
Time: 8:38:03 AM

Comments

How do you define a higher power? For me personally, it was that unseen hand that protected me during my many years of drinking, keeping me alive long enough to be able to finally accept this program: unfortunatley it took nearly death before I finally understood all that was said to me a couple of years earlier. Either way, my higher power was always there for me even though I was not looking for it, for me throuhgout my drinking and using if you tried to tell me that there was a higher power looking out for me I would have told you to get off the boat for you were crampimg my lifestyle. That was then, now I am sure that what I was told ten years ago was for real, for the blessings and bonuses that I have recieved in sobriety no amount of money could buy and I am sure they come from something external from me: I may be in control of my own destiny but I am sure that there must be something more out there watching over each of us, for many of us would not be here today. I do understand also, that just because some of us may believe in a higher power it is an issue that should be left up to the individual and new comers, and older members should never be made to feel that if they do not get God they will bust, for I have seen the damage that can result from forcing such an issue over the years, and now firmly believe that if an individual wants t obeleive in something that is fine and if not that is fine also, no matter how ridicoulous thier concept may seem, it may be the key to their sobrity.


Member: }}}}
Location:
Date: 2/7/00
Time: 9:50:18 AM

Comments

Seems to me people are afraid to talk about being honest here. Why is that? I am an athiest and have a problem with a discussion about god. Here is some honesty for you.

This is a spiritual program, not religious. Yet I read religion all over this site. My higher power is the program of AA not some fantasy of a hateful, vengeful, punishing god. This program has progressed into something I am not so sure I want to be a part of anymore. Judging from this site it has turned into a religious cult filled with a bunch of fanatics. It is unfortunate because there was a time that this program gave non believers a chance. And what I hear all of you saying is that those of us who do not believe in your god do not have a chance in sobriety nor are we welcome.

I don't think Bill W meant to exclude us. To bad he is not here to see how his wonderful program has been butchered.


Member: Pam S
Location: NC
Date: 2/7/00
Time: 12:40:12 PM

Comments

Hi Pam here alcoholic, I don't think anyone was trying to push away anyone }}}}}. If you are an athiest, that's fine. If you want to discuss honesty. I have a problem with someone saying that people can't talk about god ( they are just being honest about their higher power) I am not being catty. You are by no means excluded. I have become so honest with my husband and family that they actually believe me now. I had lied so many times about so many things that even after I became sober for 1 year they still did not believe me. They continued to ask me if I had a drink. I finally have come clean with everyone. I don't hide my alcoholism from anyone. I don't really care if they think I am a loser. I know different. I am better, much better than the drunk and user I used to be. On the other hand, I also cross-stitched a serenity prayer. I have it in my kitchen. If you believe in god fine, if you don't fine. I believe in the serenity prayer even if you leave out the god part. It's just helpful for me. If god helps some stay sober that's great. If you have a higher power who isn't god but keeps you sober that's great too. Whatever keeps you sober - keep working it!!! That's all the honesty I have for today, thanks for letting me share.


Member: Mary T.
Location: California
Date: 2/7/00
Time: 1:24:58 PM

Comments

My name is Mary T., and I'm an alcohoic. Great topic! Thanks. I heard a bit of trivia some years ago that I'd like to share with you: the word "alcoholic" has a phononym in Hebrew which tranlates "children of the fellowship of the most high Lord", and I filed that under "more will be revealed". I was raised in an assortment of foster homes from age 11 to 18, and each one was some kind of of relegious wacko (my opinion). Their god was for whites only, although he tolerated some races that weren't too dark, didn't like women very much except as domestic servants, sent unbaptized babies directly to hell, made bad things happen to anyone who didn't follow the rules, and had set up a place far away (decorated in garish, rather tacky color combinations and materials) where all the chosen ones went for the rest of eternity to sing and shout things that pleased and pumped up his ego. There was a great deal more, but not nearly as interesting as these main points. For some reason I was never able to pick up on any of this, yet I did seek a concept of God that I could accept among other relegious beliefs as I grew older, but was not successful. First I became an atheist, but that required too much consistent energy and thought, so then I became an agnostic which is much easier and more comfortable. Years down the road, I read Chariots of the Gods and was tricked into starting to read the Bible again out of scientific curiosity, which led to reading Einstein's essays (out of curiosity again) to find out why such a smart man would be so interested in reading the Bible every single day during the last decades of his life. And still later when I got into studying some of the theories for quantum mechanics, I began have a sense of the existence of a "big picture" that I was not aware of before and decided to keep seeking. A friend in A.A. appeared at my door one day, poked his head in and said, "Mary, pray this prayer: God, reveal yourself to me as you would have me understand you." And I began to do that (out of curiosity) and amazing things began happen almost immediately. Answers to questions I had never discussed with anyone began to pop up almost everywhere, at meetings, on the radio in my car, on television, out of the mouths of babes, even the rocks in my garden seem to "speak", as Whitehead said, according to their level of consciousness. I did indeed begin to know God as I understand Him today, and I have come to expect that more will be revealed tomorrow and the day after that. The 11th Step, like every other Step in A.A., is and has been very necessary for me to work on a daily basis in order to get the full effect and benefit of this wonderful program which has been the greatest adventure of my life.


Member: Perry A.
Location: SC
Date: 2/7/00
Time: 6:52:41 PM

Comments

Perry a sober drunk here. I went to a meeting where a guy with 34 years of sobriety was talking about his ideas on a higher power. He said he had a very hard time with the traditional God concept foisted on society by modern institutions, didn't like it--couldn't buy it, and found another way. Being a former bank robber, he was quite familiar with surrender, having spent half his life behind bars. He said he had a program, admitted it may not keep anyone else sober, but it worked for him, and at the base of it was a profound "surrendering" of his will.

I agree with the bank robber with his 34 years. For me the crux of the first step is surrender of my will and "my acceptance of life on life's terms." Sometimes not real easy, but I couldn't get it till I faced it. I don't need anything or anybody owning me. I just "hope" this thing'll continue to work, a day at a time, like it has in the past, and either way, I know I can't do it, so it better or I'm dead.

My will didn't keep me sober, I tried, so I don't need my ego running me into the grave either. I had a ounce of faith when I got here that some bad drunks I knew made AA work for them. That faith was it for me, but I guess it was enough to keep moving.

Today my God is something greater, something personal, and something profound. And today I'm not afraid to say it. I only know my faith in a HP of my understanding worked when my will, the cops, my family, a boat load of shrinks, and my friends could not keep me sober. I was dying and today I'm not.

Bottom line "for me," I believe there is a power greater than myself, cause I can't do it, and AA did. Good enough for this drunk.

Good luck to anyone on a sober path. If you are an alcoholic like me, the odds are against you, but there is a way, and I hope you find it!

Take what you want.


Member: GREGG G
Location: KENNEWICK
Date: 2/7/00
Time: 7:35:19 PM

Comments

HI, I BELIEVE THAT A HIGHER POWER CAN BE ANYTHING; INTANGIBLE OR TANGIBLE. I THINK THAT IF SOMEONE WHATS TO WORSHIP A DOOR KNOB THATS ALRIGHT AS LONG AS THAT PERSON BELIEVES IN THAT DOOR KNOB.

PEACE OUT...


Member: Catherine W.
Location: Hot Ramona CA
Date: 2/7/00
Time: 10:02:28 PM

Comments

Catherine here...

Grateful, Recovering Alcoholic!!

I am always amazed how this program works!

On the coffeepot side I asked, a couple days ago, how folks meditated and prayed. I was searching for something, which I have since begun to, ever so slowly, experience for myself. I got answers from most of the CPers, that I identified with. I also got a surprise answer based in a question that someone else asked!

I have had a concept of God of my undertanding for all of my 7 years sober, but there was something missing for me. Something not quite right, for me.

I was directed to the book, "Sobriety and Beyond". Exactly what I needed at this time. Then I was directed to a website that sent daily messages from the daily meditation book, "Reflections".

Now, get this....here I am searching for this "missing" connection....The first meassage I got in my E-Mail was "My choice is God", today it was..."Only a few more steps and God's Power shall be "seen" and known in my life." Now that is AMAZING!! Thats how God works in my life!!

And It is a God as I DON'T understand It.

In sobriety I have always felt if I could wrap my little alcoholic mind around the definition of a Higher Power, then it would not be much of a Power. My spirit understands God and I leave it at that.

So, to make a really cool long story short, I am working step 11 now. So how appropriate that we are discussing this!

I have dabbled in it before, From all sorts of angeles. Re: metaphysics, religion, spiritualists, Hindu, etc. I have always prayed a lot, but this seems to be a deeper level for me, my spirit has not been fed and nurtured enough for a while now. I am grateful to say I am enjoying the journey.

Thank you for sharing in my sobriety!


Member: david a
Location: vancouver canada
Date: 2/7/00
Time: 10:45:28 PM

Comments

dave alcoholic/addict from vancouver bc. First time on site; reassuring to remind myself we are all over the world recovering together you are my higher poewr thanks for being here


Member: Paul B
Location: Kirkland, WA
Date: 2/7/00
Time: 10:59:59 PM

Comments

Hi, My name is Paul. I am an alcoholic.

I find both Lee and George's topics appropriate and related. How can one be rigor with honesty and not believe in something.

Until 1997, alcohol was my higher power. It told me when I worked, when I drove, when I did everything. I could not function without alcohol and certainly had no difficulty in turning my will and life over to alcohol. By the end, that GOD had total control and led me around like a dog on a leash.

Letting go for me was giving up the Alcohol GOD, blowing up the childhood GOD, and coming to grips with a "positive" power greater than myself. I like to tell people I envisioned blowing up GOD with dynamite and a detonator. It was only after that, I was able to open my mind and be willing to accept the principles of the program which require vigorous and rigorous honesty.

I now use the term GOD because it is a word that can be understood by most members of the program. Getting past the Judeo-Christain issues, I find the word "GOD" a three letter acronym that describes faith, love, and honesty regardless of, if any, dogma.

I use to despise the "Theological Systems" the Big Book talks about. I found out, I could not accept without rejection nor love without hate. For me, had I not suffered the pain of the alcohol and childhood GODs, I would not have the joy and serenity that is now in my life.

One of you shared, the concpets of AA are found in the churches. I agree but would also add it is found in the temples, mosque, synagoges, nature, and various other places. The program lead me to find a power greater than myself that didn't leave me with a headache in the morning that was so bad, I couldn't piece together the lies from the night before.

I can honestly say, I have faith, hope and spirituality because of AA.

This program and our individual HPs as we understand them is amazing. As a friend from another meeting always says, "AA ROCKS".

In love and service

Paul


Member: kevinm
Location: fl
Date: 2/7/00
Time: 11:18:42 PM

Comments

it is no longer what God can do for me, but what can i do for him, He keeps me sober and i do the rest, if he were small enough for me to understand, he would not be big enough for me


Member: Marge
Location: Denver
Date: 2/7/00
Time: 11:59:24 PM

Comments

My name is Marge, I am an alcoholic. Thanks for sharing everyone, the cyber gratitude is awesome.

With God as my father, and AA as my mother, I have the best set of parents I could ask for. When I walked into the rooms, I did not believe in "God", it almost made me choke to say the word. But slowly, and with baby steps, as the fog began to clear, it became very apparent that if I was my own higher power, I really hadn't done a very good job. I asked God, if you are really out there, to show me, and he did. Maybe it was my willingness to surrender and let someone else run the show, but once I asked, I did receive. My higher power has changed a few times, too, as my sobriety matures. Today, I know the power of God working in my life and I know what my purpose is. The ability to share love, light, and understanding to my fellow man is a beautiful gift. Quite a change from being a petty, selfish, self-centered bar fly.

Keep coming back. Thanks for being here.


Member: JACK B.
Location: CUMBOLA MAROON PA.
Date: 2/8/00
Time: 2:46:34 AM

Comments

Hi I am Jack a real alcoholic, when I think of power greater than myself, the first thought I have is that alcohol was a greater power than myself.It made me into who I wanted to be other than who I was and it put me where ever I wanted to be other than where I was. Step two for me quite simply is my first act of faith in the program.I put my trust and faith in something other than myself. Today I keep it quite simple when it comes to a power greater than myself.There is one who has all power that one is God, may you find him now. I didn't set out looking for God, he wasn't lost but I sure was.Today thru his amazing grace I am sober and ave been for quite some time.Keep it Simple.This is a simple program complicated by those who are in it. In Our basic text, it tells us we don't have to believe in God, but is is ESSENTIAL that we believe in God's power. God Bless all on this day.


Member: Brian M
Location: C-VILLE
Date: 2/8/00
Time: 3:03:20 AM

Comments

Hi all Brian alcoholic this is for {{{{{ who ever u r if u read appendix 2 on spiritual experience,and the chapter to the agnostic u probably wouldnt write things like that {GOD} good orderly direction your concept of a higher power and if u read the book we see fit to call higher power god. So u just keep trudging the road to happy destiny and may god bless u and keep u until then.


Member: Mary T
Location:
Date: 2/8/00
Time: 3:43:57 AM

Comments

To Mary T: Your post was so incredibly informative as opposed to }}}}. May he get a life! I don't have a problem with atheists but I do with ignorance. To George G: I remember in rehab we were told that we could consider our higher power a door knob if we chose but I would surely hate to depend on that door knob to answer my prayers. To: }}}} It is recoverers like you who set me back a step - I then have to work harder (which I will definitely do!)


Member: Gabrielle P.
Location: Mansfield, Tx.
Date: 2/8/00
Time: 7:55:07 AM

Comments

Hi Gabrielle, Grateful, Recovering alcoholic. For me that is the key to every thing I do, I am recovering from alcoholism. The disease manifested in me the inability to put on clean socks on a regular basis much less did I have any concept of God that worked in my life. If I was to make it in this program I had to believe that God as I understand Him (not the rest of ya'll concept of Him) could and would restore me to sanity. I am most assuradly grateful that He was in control of my life from the beginning because when I was drinking I did everything I could to make it the worse life anyone could imagine. What I gained from believeing God as I understood Him was the ability to have a life instead of an existance. I can only speak for myself but I was dead in all respects when I got here. I was taken code blue to a mental institute when they revived me and stabalized me to observe the poor sick creature they had found in a pool of vomit and blood by her own hand. So Please ))))) get a clue this program is something that you have to want and to be willing to go to any lenghts to have, it is not easy and it will most assuradly give you character and morals if you can be honest enough with yourself to decide you want what we have. Today I have friends who stand by, I have God in my life As I understand Him, I have direction in my life, I know where I slept last night and who I was with. I pray to my God for you that you may find peace and happiness and be able to grasp the real meaning of this program and what it has to offer to all who are willing to work the steps, go to meetings, get a sponser, give away what was so freely given to them. Because it gave me freedom from a living hell that I pray God will never see fit to allow me to return to. i am not angry even though it may seem so I just am very serious about this program and wish I could give it to every suffering alcoholic out there but that is a personal decesion for each individual to make. In Sobriety, In A.A., In Life!


Member: lsams
Location: OR
Date: 2/8/00
Time: 9:02:11 AM

Comments

Hi. I'm Lynn and I'm an alcoholic. I found Chapter 4 of the Big Book very helpful. I didn't realize how negative my attitude was. As I grew in the program, I found that I hated God. I had a lot of bad things happen to me in my life. "We finally saw that faith in some kind of God was a part of our make-up, just as much as the feeling we have for a friend." and "When we drew near to Him He disclosed Himself to us." I didn't start out quite right-but I'm still working on it. AA is "what works best for most." It's worked pretty good for 17 years now. But, I've gone through many stages. I appreciate the opportunity to share here. Thank you.


Member: Michael S.
Location: Rome, Italy
Date: 2/8/00
Time: 4:09:39 PM

Comments

Greetings.

There is no god or higher power. (A simple, unsupported assertion, just like the one that there is a god.) There is, however, a group whose purpose is to encourage sobriety, and that's a good thing.

My thanks to all.


Member: jim b
Location: my computer
Date: 2/8/00
Time: 6:38:13 PM

Comments

Aloha Gang!, Jim B. here, haven't been writting in much lately, kinda still shifting gears getting back into the swing of things in the work a day world after my fabulous vacation and also recovering from a bad dose of the flue that I picked up on my way home. This is a great topic for me, step 2. I think it is fairly easy to work this one all it seems to be asking is for us to have a simple faith that God will do for us what we could not do for ourselves. Hindsight being 20/20 I can see where I have been led back to some semblence of sanity. Of course while actively drinking and using I'd have been hard pressed to acknowledge that I was insane at all. Only now after gaining some perspective on my former self I can see where I was completely irrational and not sane. I think too, initially I thought that it would work for you guys but somehow I would never be restored to sanity as I was just to far gone etc. Happy to say today that that has not been my expierience at all. What a blessing it is to be on the otherside of all that insanity of my former life. Lord knows people tried to get me to see the error of my ways and I desperately wanted to stop living the way I was but I had no clue how to straighten out my life once and for all. Now it seems this miracle has been performed for me in my life by the Grace of a loving Higher Power and I could not set out to accomplish the same results even if I knew what and how to do it! Thank you God and A.A. Aloha Jim


Member: MaryJ
Location: Seattle
Date: 2/8/00
Time: 7:14:02 PM

Comments

Hi,

I'm Mary and an alcoholic. I'm a person who believes in a higher power and I choose to call Him God. If you don't believe in a higher power that is okay and if you don't and don't like the discussion topic you don't have to participate. I believe that is called free will. We have the free will to believe what we want to and decide if we want to believe in a higher power.

My personal philosophy is that all of us believe in something. We may all describe this differently. To some it is things or ideas or other people. We may value intellect or verbal or writing ability. We may place importance on money or possessions.

My own personal choice is what I have stated above. I am not saying that other people must believe like I do, you have a choice and you make the decision.


Member: Dale S.
Location: California
Date: 2/8/00
Time: 7:15:29 PM

Comments

Good topic and really great share George. You really keyed on some interesting things. (the meaning of the phrase "...a power greater than ourselves..." ) The power that took away the obsession to drink from me. This was such an awesome event for me. You just had to have been there. It came at when I was finally ready to clean house. For me that was telling another all of my darkest secrets. I had no faith that it was going to work, but it worked anyway.

The 11th step ..Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God. (as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.) Of all the steps this is the on I am most lax about. Something inside me screams "How could such a thing as that do any good, but when I do it I reap the rewards. This is truly what it is all about. It is much more important to improve our contact with God that it is to try and understand him. I believe that when we try through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God we will know God. We may never understand God but we can know God.

Thank you George, I guess I know now what I need to start doing again. I did get down on my knees this morning but it was out of pain and misery. Funny how the power praper becomes more believable when we are in misery.


Member: "S"
Location: NH
Date: 2/8/00
Time: 8:50:18 PM

Comments

Thank you George C. for the great topic, this makes two weeks in a row that this discussion page has met my own need since finding this site last month. I do not believe in (empty) coincidences.

Lee- Thanks for reminding me to continue striving for rigorous honesty, it is a part of the "perfection" I can only reach for, knowing full well what a poor specimen I am. A reminder that striving is an action that gives me growth...perfection only a goal toward which I can yearn.

}}}}}- I must ask you again to read the (beautiful) things George had to say, and Paul B too is very erudite in his description of our need to put a word on something which we cannot easily describe otherwise.

There is a difference for many of us between religion and spirituality. It is a challenging task for me to clearly separate them after 20 plus years in a Christian cult. For me to walk through these many doors into the rooms is a denial of the faith which freed me from many childhood years of drug use; and with a distant knowledge of AA added to my personal beliefs I have attained 7 years sobriety outside that religious group. To deny the teachings of what was for so long my loving family and fellowship is to risk all manner of evil and cursedness, not alone in the next life but today as well. I thank God for being much larger than I had ever imagined. Large enough to exceed not only my own mind, but to include each and every one who comes to him no matter how they choose to do so. Large enough to keep hitting me with lessons that lead me toward tolerance; and away from the arrogance that was my complete way of life. Live and let Live..what an amazing concept!

I have lost enough significant years to drink and drugs, I see no reason to give up what I have gained from following Bill W and AA's advice to turn to the bottle again, just because I am having to change my concept of "God." Change too is one of the actions that dictate my growth. Without an HP my life is forfeit. If, as Jesse Ventura said, that makes me weak, I embrace that weakness, for I have another power that was once greater, and it nearly killed me times beyond counting. Please continue to lend me your strength, your own "willingness" is another of the keys to my sobriety.

Thanks all for your shares, and for letting me do so too! I pray that my God -and yours too will bless you abundantly above all that you ask or think!

Another 24 for us all. True miracles!


Member: passer by
Location: here
Date: 2/8/00
Time: 10:46:44 PM

Comments

}}}}}- Obviously you are not comfortable with your choice to be an athiest, otherwise why would you take these posts so personally. Choose again if you like. You can choose as often as you wish!


Member: }}}}}
Location:
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 12:36:43 AM

Comments

To passer by....are you a therapist? you must be because it shows by the mere stupidity of your statement. Obviously my athieism scares the shit out of you or you would not have acknowledged my posting. This site along with all of you god freaks are the very things that tear AA down and destroy its sole purpose. AA is a place to get sober NOT preach your religious nonsense. As I said before AA is my Higher Power and I don't care if that offends any of you. After all you guys expect me to tolerate all of your religious babble.

Live and Let Live!


Member: lsams
Location: OR
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 9:27:41 AM

Comments

I'm Lynn and I'm an alcoholic. Each person comes from their own place. AA loved me until I could love myself. I haven't always liked everything I heard-here-or at meetings. My anger was a very great problem at first.I was taught to consider how hard it is to change myself and then realize how hard it is to change someone else. I simply did not understand who God is. It has been worth the trip to find out.


Member: Another Friend of Bill W
Location:
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 10:12:54 AM

Comments

Our inner voice, that quiet guide within is God speaking to us. We can be assured that it will always lead us along our path, it will help us create our destiny, it will keep us in harmony.

So much stress comes from not listening, not trusting our inner voice. So much confusion comes from trying to act before we have heard, before we are guided. So much pain comes when we deny what that voice is saying, when we try to run from it or make it go away.

Our resentments occur when we trust others rather than ourselves; when we allow others to guide us along a path that is good for them but not necessarily good for us. Yes, sometimes promptings come from outside ourselves. But the answer must always resonate, must always ultimately come from that place within: our heart, our soul, our inner voice, our God. Sometimes we need to listen to others until we become impassioned enough to hear and trust ourselves.

It is neither wasted time nor incidental to our lives to learn to hear ourselves, to learn to tune into our hearts and souls. Thatís part of our destiny, our mission, our purpose.

Make the choice to listen to that inner voice because most assuredly, it will return for a thousand tomorrows until you do. Others will tell you that you are wrong because they wish to have control but you are the only one who knows what your heart and soul is telling you; what God is telling you. Make the choice to trust God, for He is not wrong.


Member: P B.
Location:
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 10:25:11 AM

Comments

}}}}}-Me thinks thou doth protest too much!


Member: cy
Location:
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 10:44:33 AM

Comments

We never apologize to anyone for depending upon our Creator.......it is the way of strength. The verdict of the ages is that faith means courage. All men of faith have courage. They trust their God. We never apologize for God. Instead we let Him demonstrate, through us, what He can do.

paraphrased frm pg. 68.


Member: Stanley B
Location: Delaware
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 11:50:00 AM

Comments

Sorry for writing 2 times and I never do this but I have to because it is annoying.

This is to }}}}} and P.B.:

Please take your argument to the Coffee Pot and leave this site for those of us who need a good positive discussion. Everyone is entitled to their thoughts and opinions so GIVE IT A REST WILL YA!

Thanks and sorry again for the 2nd post.

Stanb2001@aol.com


Member: Mary K
Location: Boston
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 1:19:35 PM

Comments

Hi All - Mary, Alcoholic

The relationship I have with my HP is constantly changing. It does not stay still. There are times when it seems so aloof and fleeting, other times when I feel so close I feel all lit up inside. The times when I'm feeling "disconnected" I rely on my faith. Ain't nothing like feeling God's light - it is those moments I cherish and they renew my faith reserve.

All are welcome in AA - believers of a higher power and non-believers. So long as we do not try to "convert" another to our particular way - it all works just fine. Has for more than half a century now. If you took a head count at meeting I feel secure in assuming more believe than not. Whatever works.

Rigorous honesty to me is dictated by my conscience. What I can or cannot live with may not be the same for the next AA. As mentioned already "To thine own self be true". Not all AAs are honest, let alone rigorously. Eventually all AAs encounter these individuals/situations if we stay around long enough. I believe there are things to learn from all my life experiences - the happy ones as well as the painful ones (although I much prefer learning from the happy ones).

Love to all - Mary


Member: Another Friend of Bill W, too
Location:
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 1:24:13 PM

Comments

Hi, a surf'n alcoholic here.

Hum, ...inner voice. I'm working on this one, the listening part, and it's taking some faith. I know this is the way to be, and takes meditation and patience, but I get confusted with my inner chat, usually fear talk'n, and rely on BB, meetings, sponsors, and other sources of inspiration, too.

I guess it will just take some time to develop experience and confidence.

Thanks!


Member: PB
Location:
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 1:36:56 PM

Comments

Stanley---you are absolutely right. I apologize to the group as a whole and to }}}}} for reacting.

It won't happen again.


Member: RICK
Location: ALBERT,CANADA
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 2:21:18 PM

Comments

Hi my name is Rick,alcoholic. Right from the beginning I said this program w was just right for me because I could believeany way i wanted. I thought I WAS A FATALLIST.It was not until I did step3 did I START TO LIVE.The desire to drink was taken from me, so now I have learn to live the way GODwants me to live which is not easy.WHAT GETS me,when I think there is nothing else to give GOD, he shows me there is.It amazes me how sick I am,but with GODS help I will get better a little at a time. GOD NEVER GIVES UP ON US


Member: Nisi
Location: Maryland
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 4:28:10 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Nisi and an alcoholic. I am so glad that this meeting is here when I can't make it to a face to face meeting. I do wish people wouldn't lash out at others under the cover of faceless typing.

I love what George said, especially about in the end, we will all be what we make of God. That certainly doesn't sound "judgmental" to me. In fact, it sounds very individual and personal, almost frighteningly so. The onus is on us, and as someone said recently to me, we are all responsible for our own happiness.

I know that God, (HP, The Force..) is all around us, waiting for us to let him in. Like when we go to a meeting and hear some gut level honesty. I feel that is one way God reaches out to me, through others in the program. The problem I have is, do I really listen? And if I do, do I take action?

Thank you all for being here.


Member: Lorrie R.
Location: North Carolina
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 5:40:47 PM

Comments

I'm Lorrie;I am an alcoholic. Thanks George for a great topic. To Melissa; The girl in the mirror is the miracle you are looking for. She's the one who is looking to change her reflection,her life. You hang in there girl.Don't you give up before the miracle happens! When I first came into the rooms of A.A.,I too felt like }}}} feels now. It took a little while for me to find a higher power that I could understand. I does not happen overnight,but it did happen. Thank you all for being here.You are all miracles. Thanks for letting me share. Lorrie


Member: Tracy F.
Location: IL
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 11:16:51 PM

Comments

Hey, Tracy, Alcoholic. When I came into AA I too had(what I heard)a punishing God. That's what I really only heard when I was a kid. Since then, seeing people in AA and for once in my life actually listening to them my view has changed. I began to pray and things changed. Not instantly and not all the time but through the 12 steps and prayer it's given me sobriety. I want to share something that I came across..It's call Butt Prints in the Sand, One night I had a wonderous dream,One set of footprints there were seen,The footprints of my precious Lord,But mine were not along the shore. But then some stranger prints appeared,And I asked the Lord "What have we here?" Those prints are large,round,and neat, "But Lord,they're too big for feet""My child"He said in somber tones,"For miles I carried you alone.I challenged you to walk in faith,But you refused and made me wait.""You disobeyed,you would not grow,The walk of faith, you would not know,So I got tired,I got fed up,And there I dropped you on your butt." "Because in life,there comes a time,When one must fight,and one must climb,When one must rise and take a stand,Or leave their butt prints in the sand." -Author unknown- I pray, but,the hardest for me is to take action(I'm a thinker!) So not only do I need to pray for His will, but, I need to pray for the Power to carry that out. When I don't take action nothing happens - I either live in fear or walk in Faith.


Member: Ken A
Location: St.Louis, Mo
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 11:27:02 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Ken and I'm an alcoholic! What a great place this site is! I am a firefighter and am unable to attend meetings when I'm working a 24 hour shift. Reading your comments, really puts me at peace with myself! I'm 96 days young at this sobriety thing, but I know that without a higher power, I would have never made it! I have come to find out that when I distance myself from higher power, I run into trouble! so I work really hard at including my higher power in each day of my life! In the beginning of my program, I was much like }}}}}, full of anger and hate! Once I "Let go and let God" I really found what inner peace was all about! humility is not thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less! Thanks for sharing K.A.


Member: Mike
Location: Grenville
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 11:29:59 PM

Comments

Hello all, I'm Mike, first time here, fiurst time for any AA-related event. Interesting in seeing what its all about. Interesting topic for discussion: form studies I contend that a Higher Power can be anything: a door-knob, mountain, the earth, cosmos, sky, ocean, just about anything from which you draw support that assists you in life, specfically in dealing with addiction, be it alcohol or other. Regardless of whether or not you (as an individual) believe in God or not, if you can honsestly (being truthful to yourself) believe in something that helps you achieve your goal (living life sober) then that which you chose to believe in, could be considered your Higher Power. With regrds to the topic of Honesty, at least that is how I had interpreted that, I am reminded of a parable I once heard about the man in the mirror: the basic premise is such that you could, possibly successfully lie to anyone, but in the end, you are forced to look at yourself, to live with yourself each day. Ultimately, for those who believe in God (through pascal's wager or through faith) an omnipotnet and omnicient being will know and may judge. Regretable, I have the Flu, its getting late, and I need to be going. This "site" seems interesting, and I may return. Thanks for time and patience, I'm trying. I guess all things begin with the first steps.


Member: Arlene C
Location: Northeast Washington
Date: 2/9/00
Time: 11:53:05 PM

Comments

Arlene...An alcoholic. Hi everyone. George Thank you. I have been sober for what some might say is a long time. Every mornign when I ask my Higher Power for another day of soberity, I also ask that I may continue to grow along spirtual lines. Tonight I will especially thak him for another alcoholic miles away who said something that touched my soul. "In the end we shall all of us be only what we have made of God" will enhance my spritual journey. Thanks!!!


Member: Michael B.
Location: AZ
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 1:00:58 AM

Comments

Hi! My name is Michael, and I am recovering alcoholic and addict, sober today only by the grace of God and the Fellowship. Welcome to the newcomers! And thanks everyone for sharing!

Although I wasn't aware of it, my idea of God or a Higher Power had always been a purely abstract concept--superficial actually. But after I became a sober member of the AA Program, my Higher power became much more concrete. For me, this concreteness includes the very fact that God as I understand Him is, in fact, a power greater than myself that keeps me sober.

In the Big Book it says that the purpose of the book is to help you find a power greater than yourself which will solve your problem (45). This makes perfect sense to me, because I learned from the terrible beating I received at the hands of my obssession that I really did not have the power to control my drinking. But again, it has since been made clear to me, through the practice of the AA program, that my Higher Power is indeed a power and that it is a power which is greater than any power I might personally possess.


Member: Pam D
Location: Anaheim, CA
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 2:49:47 AM

Comments

pam here. true alcoholic. I really enjoyed reading the posts.Ever since I was shot at and someone behind me died, apparently randomly, I've struggled to really trust that there is any God. or at least any that's keeping track of day to day events here on Earth. So, George's thoughts about transforming ideas over time really made more sense than most anything I've come across. Interestingly enough, in my graduate studies I read some research that said our exposure to a belief in a higher power at about age 3 determines whether or not we have any kind of belief in any higher power throughout our lives...when I got sober, my higher power was the force that made trees grow, even in cracks in the sidewalk. Strong roots reaching down, a trunk in everyday life, and branches reaching for the sky...seems I need to go back to that for a while.


Member: JOE B
Location: NORWICH, CT
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 10:16:33 AM

Comments

I'M JOE AND I AM AN ALCOHOLIC AND AN ADDICT. THANK YOU FOR BOTH TOPICS. WHEN I GOT HONEST WITH MYSELF I BELIEVED MY HIGHER POWER WHICH I CHOOSE TO CALL GOD WOULD HELP ME TRUDGE THE ROAD TO HAPPY DESTINY. THROUGH HIM AND THE OTHER TOOLS I HAVE ACQUIRED IN THE PROGRAM, I HAVE FOUND A NEW FREEDOM. FREEDOM FROM THE BONDAGE THAT THE BOTTLE HELD ME CAPTIVE IN. IF YOU ARE A NEWCOMER AND ARE STRUGGLING WITH THE CONCEPT OF A HIGHER POWER JUST BELIVE THAT I AND OTHERS BELIVE. THAT WORKED FOR ME. GOD IS GOOD, ALL THE TIME. PAGE 449 IN THE BB IS A DAILY MEDITATION FOR ME AND IT HELPS ME THROUGH ANYTHING THAT DOESN'T SIT WELL WITH ME AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT. THANK GOD THIS IS A ONE DAY AT A TIME PROGRAM. THAN YOU FOR LETTING ME SHARE.


Member: Mike
Location:
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 10:59:30 AM

Comments

Why can't you guys just let people be who they are and believe what they want? To those who keep addressing }}}}}: Let the guy/gal live as they choose and express what they wish. Just because he/she does not have a belief in God does not give anyone the right to comment about how negative or spiritually bankrupt this person might be. That is not for anyone here to judge. And there is quite a bit of judging going on in here. The 4th step talks about a personal inventory not taking someone elses.

I am sorry to say to you folks that I agree with one thing }}}}} has said: Live and Let Live and for God's sake stop judging people who have different views or work the program in a different manner.


Member: a meditation for today
Location: from my higher power
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 11:07:09 AM

Comments

Learn to recognize passive-agressive hits. Learn to recognize when other people have hidden agendas, when they're trying to control or manipulate you. When we're being controlled, we may feel guilty, obligated, indebted. In our muddled state, we agree to another's wishes but we're not sure why. Then we wander around feeling uncertain, sad, unbalanced, confused and down right miserable.

The lesson still isn't about them. The lesson is about how we respond. If their behavior, their energy, is affecting us that strongly, it's because something in us needs to be healed. A part of us isn't clear, is still mucked up by something old and outworn, such as GUILT or FEAR. Once we heal ourselves, we will intuitively know how to deal with their attempts to control us.


Member: mike w
Location: mi
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 12:08:26 PM

Comments

Hi Mike here I know I am a alcoholic, and have been out drinking for about 6 years again. I am back at the point where I was the last time. On the verge of loosing job, etc. (I already have lost self-respect). i have'nt had a drink in about a week and i am still afraid of the last drunk. But the pain is lessening (as it usually does), and I don't want to take that next drink again. I never know what will happen. Sometimes there are no consequnces, other times serious things happen. I know this was not the topic I jsut wanted to chime in.


Member: Ginger
Location: Denver
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 12:10:06 PM

Comments

To }}}}} I just read your comments and the only thing I have to say is: it is members like you who drive me back, back, back! I really don't care about whether you are an athiest or not but please don't be so angry and defiant and accusatory about those who aren't. It's like going to a meeting and coming away feeling like a whipped puppy. I won't come back to this site too soon.


Member: Ben Y
Location: Co.
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 12:15:06 PM

Comments

Hi my name is Ben and I am an alcoholic. This is my first time to this site so please bear with me. I am going to try and react to both topics without wandering. I am not religious in the least have never attended church and have no desire to. I agree when Jesse Ventura when he said that religion is a crutch. And I feel like my legs are broken right now. I think it is foolish not to think that there is some higher power out there but for me its hard to understand things I cant see or touch. Therefore my higher power is my girlfriend of 5 years. She is the one I turn to when I need a helping hand or just someone to talk to. Praying is just like talking to myself for me if nobodys listening where is it gonna get me, nowhere. I just want to encourage anybody like me that is not religous to assign a face as your higher power whether it be your mother or your brother whatever I think we all need something tangeble to fill that void. It is really hard for me as a newcomer to be honest with myself because I have other addictions besides alcohol that I dont think are bad for my life at this time. And I know that I will not get anywhere being dishonest like that because no matter what drug and how often you use it it affects your social skill, how your loved ones feel about you unless your hiding which is dishonest anyway. I just got my second dui and sittin in jail I kept telling myself that I can hide this one, in my mind I had to because everyone thought I stopped drinking after my first dui. So not only was I lying to myself saying that I can control it this time but I was lying to everyone that loves me. Now the repurcussions of that are going to be horrific I already experienced my girlfriend crying, shouting and packing her stuff. That took a lot of work to patch things up with her. My mom is out of town and thinks I havent been drinking for close to a year when actually it was my worst year for alcohol and this is gonna kill her. I feel so little right now. I am sorry if I started rambling but I figured you should all know what dishonesty and alcohol got me.


Member: jenifer d
Location: england swings
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 12:18:15 PM

Comments

I truly believe that a Greater Power has done a lot of work in my life in the last 17 sober months. But I am writing because last night I had a drinking dream. It was so real, all of the secrecy that surrounded my drinking and the shame of it all was there. I hate these dreams, they don't come often but when they do I feel that I can never put the shame of it all behind me, the lost years with my husband and children. I can never make up to those that I love for the times that I wasn't there for them. Does it ever go away? I wish I could be 'first' one time, this would be my topic. Sorry people for coming away a little from the topic, but this site is where I come to when I need help and answers.


Member: LOUIE L
Location:
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 1:09:18 PM

Comments

HI LOUIE ALCHOLIC GREAT TOPIC MY SOBER DATE 04/19/91 I THINK THROW THE REST OF MY SOBER TIME HOPEFULLY I WILL BE IMPROVING MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY HIGHER POWER. SEEKING THIS POWER. GOD BLESSLOUIE E-MAIL PAPAPR


Member: MM
Location:
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 2:08:06 PM

Comments

Bye Bye Ginger! That's what people do when they can't Live and Let Live...they judge and then run!

Hey Ben Y. Keep coming back we need you!


Member: Ben Y
Location: rugged rockies
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 2:51:38 PM

Comments

MM thanx but I will tell you what I need you guys. I cant do this alone and I dont think that anyone can I am just so glad that I found another way to get help. And reading other peoples experiences is so much help. I am going on my 2nd day sober and just wake up hoping to stay sober. I am really proud of myself when I woke up this morning(with the shakes and a headache from not drinking I assume) I realized how bad it really was and strive to make it another DRUG free day. Thanx for all the support


Member: Marty
Location:
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 3:08:59 PM

Comments

Well, my name is Marty and please don't be offended that I'm not an alcoholic. The reason that I am posting is because of a situation that is facing me at the present. I have been married for 17 1/2 years and have 2 great kids. My wife comes from a family troubled with alcoholism. While she does not drink, I am convinced that she is an alcoholic. I know that sounds strange, but 17 1/2 years of putting up with her behavior has brought us almost to the point of divorce. I have been searching the net for information on the "classic" behavior of an alcoholic. I would describe her as a "non'drinking" alcoholic. She is in a constant state of denial, not about drinking, rather about being responsible for any of the problems in our family or marriage. She has mastered the "blame game", and in all cases, I am her scapegoat. If there is a situation or negative issue in our household, I will automatically recieve all of the blame. When confronted, she refuses to accept any responsibility for her actions regardless of the situation. When asked if she believes there is anything that she could change in her life to make the relationship better, she denies that she is any problem whatsoever. After about 1 year of marriage, and trying to understand her, I resorted to avoiding confrontation with her. Basically, I ignore her when I know the shit is coming. She loves to argue about insignificant issues, and I refuse to play her game. That only makes her madder, but I refuse to be mentally treated like shit on her behalf.

Last week our neice (on her side of the family) was married. I was unable to attend the ceremony or reception due to work, but was informed by my son (12 yrs old) that he had consumed 8 glasses of champagne and some beer at the reception, all of which were provided by drinking adults. He may have been exaggerating to a degree as to the quantity, but his sister did confirm his "partaking of the bubbly". Now, here is where it gets twisted. I asked my wife about it, and her response was that I shouldn't be suprised if he becomes an alcoholic. When asked why she didn't prevent it from happening, the guilt was somehow transferred to me, and now I am to blame for his little binge. Now, would someone please explain to me how I'm responsible? I wasn't even there. I swear that she is mentally incapable of understanding her game.This kind of crap goes on daily, and I'm am fit to be tied. She threatens divorce or separation frequently, and I guess I'm supposed to crawl to her and beg for mercy. I won't do it.

Well, enough of the facts, now would someone please tell me if there are any resources available on dealing with such a behavior. It is impossible to deal with her on any level.

Thank you,

Marty


Member: GREGG G
Location: KENNEWICK
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 5:18:33 PM

Comments

HI, GREGG AGAIN. I JUST HAVE TO SAY THAT IF IT WASN'T FOR MY HIGHER POWER(DOOR KNOB, OR WHATEVER...), I WOULD NOT BE IN SUCH A FORTUNATE POSITION. JUST STICK WITH YOUR BELIEFS, WHATEVER THEY ARE AND YOU SHALL FIND THE PATH TO RIGHTEOUSNESS!!!


Member: Frank R.
Location: New York ("sticks")
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 5:55:04 PM

Comments

Hi This is Frank Alcoholic-This is my 1st time on this site.I've read all of the opinions on this discussion topic and ,I,more or less believing in a greater force and obviously needing support or a "leaning post" to help me keep straight,have come realize one thing.We all are different,with a different set or degree of circumstance.We all have our own beliefs and none of us has the right to judge another for their's. I know only about myself and in saying this know that I and no one else has the responsibility of keeping me sober except for myself.I can remember how phisically and mentally sick I was when I was drinking- -And whenever I am tempted,which happens to all of us, I seriously think back to where I was and realize that I never want to be there again! It's TOUGH ,but what matters is that no matter how you stay clean---YOU DO! - -In any way necessary. Wether it be from religon or from some other means.


Member: Lorrie R.
Location: North Carolina
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 6:07:15 PM

Comments

I'm Lorrie: Alcoholic, Sorry for sharing twice , just wanted to comment on what Marty was saying. Look for AL-ANON in your area even if your wife does'nt go YOU go. It may not fix her,but it will give you a little understanding of your situation and perhaps even some peace. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: FOR    MARTY
Location: YOU'RE NOT ALONE
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 6:24:58 PM

Comments

Marty -

You may also want to look into Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACOA). There may be some sites on the internet, don't know, but I do know that bookstores are LOADED with information. God bless.


Member: John S
Location: SeaPines
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 11:39:57 PM

Comments

This message is to Marty. Hey Marty I have been where you are and I hear ya. I have some things I can share with you but the most important statement I would like to make is this:

As long as you keep acting like a doormat, your wife will keep wiping her dirty boots on you!

It is as simple as that! Sorry for being so blunt but it is fact. I am alcoholic myself and also went through an abusive marriage. When I read what you wrote I felt like you were telling my story, only difference is that I am an alky. Truth is Marty that you canít fix or change your wife. Her blaming you for her behavior is typical and aint nothing new to us alkys. Her threats of divorce or leaving are merely control mechanisms. I ask you this MartyÖWhat the heck would be so bad if she did leave? Is this marriage so wonderful now? And what the hell do your kids think and feel when they see and hear her abuse you and you take it? Do you think they are learning about healthy relationships? Gotta tell ya pal my kids devastated me one day when they told me they believed I was a loser and a wimp because I stayed and took that crap for so long. When I finally left, and yes Marty I left, my kids finally got a clear picture of what it meant to love yourself. My x wife had to face herself for the first time in her life because I was no longer there to have her dirty boots all over my back. She is a much better person today and we are friends. The marriage is over but guess what we are happier now than we have ever been. I am sober, I have a lovely lady that I am seeing and my kids are great. Actually they recently told me that they have a new respect for me. When I asked them why. They answered, because daddy you respect yourself now so how can we not respect you. Nuff saidÖ.Good luck to ya Marty.


Member: Mike
Location: Here & There
Date: 2/10/00
Time: 11:59:53 PM

Comments

Just want to say to Frank R from New York and Ben Y from the Rugged Rockies...

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE keep coming back! You both have helped me with what you wrote. I mean it!

Marty...I feel for you man and think you got some good reading with what John S wrote.

God this program is GREAT!


Member: Fred M
Location: MD
Date: 2/11/00
Time: 7:30:17 AM

Comments

I'm Fred and I'm an alcoholic, sober today by the grace of God. Thanks, George C for the wonderful topic and thought provoking message. Thanks also to Lee for the closley related honesty topic. For me, living in the grace of a higher power and striving for honesty in my day to day life are the keys to continued sobriety. Before I sobered up, I went through a long period of non-belief. I had it all fugured out. Alcohol was there to help me deal with the special problems I had and to celebrate the special things that happened in my life. The problem was, years of my best thinking brought me to a point where my life was falling apart. I drove around drunk every day, my wife was about to leave, my kids were growing up to know their dad was a drunk. For the last couple of years I drank, I hated the person I had become. After a long heavy weekend bender, I woke up one morning and asked God for help. For some miraculous reason, he took pity on me and showed me a way to stop drinking. That morning was Sunday morning, President's Day weekend, 1979, and I haven't had a drink since. So, all I can talk about is me. For me, there is proof of a power greater than myself. The fact that I know who I was and who I am today is all the proof I need.

For Ben Y and Mike W, see you at a face to face meeting. For Jennifer D (Does it ever go away?), my past life and the wrongs I did never go away, they are always there, but God (and I) have forgiven me for those wrongs. They are there today to remind me what I could easily become again if I choose to pick up a drink. In my daily living, I make amends for those past wrongs, and ask God to show me a better way to live and become a better person. For Gabrielle P, thanks for always being there. I always learn from your posts. Thanks for letting me share. Love, Fred


Member: Nicky O.
Location: NY
Date: 2/11/00
Time: 11:38:11 AM

Comments

I'm Nicky, definately an alcoholic.I've been reading this site on and off for quite some time now. Fearful of writing something. I don't know why, part of my problem, I guess. Afraid to be! I have gone to about 10 meetings in my lifetime. I'm not an everyday drinker, but I can't stop once I start. And I usually find a new boyfriend when I do drink. Then I'll sober up and break up. I drank for a week in August, Dec 27th and January 15th, which was my mother's 70th birthday. I hadn't talked to my family in about 6 months. I promised myself I wouldn't drink, but the first thing I did was pour myself a glass of wine. Needless to say...I am very lonely! I have a daughter,9 ,but she has an old soul. I've spoken up to my family about my problems and they deny it, because we all suffer from it. I don't have friends anymore, actually, never did.I know , go to meetings! But, I'm afraid! Why am I so afraid of getting better. As far as the topics: I believe in God or A Higher Power I have found myself in all different churches thinking the absence of religion is what is wrong with me. I found that quiet music and nature agood book and a warm bath with candles brings me closest to God. Just breathing in and watching the trees sway. Honesty, that comes and goes. I need a friend! Thanks!My hands are shaking , not from drink, from fear!


Member: A message
Location: from my HP
Date: 2/11/00
Time: 11:52:58 AM

Comments

To Marty,

God does not expect us to tolerate bad treatment from anyone. Why some spouses think a marriage license means ownership is beyond me. And why do we all buy into this notion that being married is so darn sacred and that it means we must put up with someone elses abusive BS? Why do we all think our children are so naieve that they do not see the abuse and destruction? And why do we think that staying in a sick and bad marriage is good for our kids? We destroy our children's chances for a happy loving life when we show them that bad treatment is acceptable. We teach them by example that it is OK to remain in a bad situation. We pass guilt onto them when they know we are staying in a marriage because we have this sick belief that "it is better for the children." Since when was guilt ever a good thing for anyone? We pass onto them the lesson that lack of self love and respect is the norm. Then when they get into these same types of marriages we just can't believe it and ask ourselves why. I had to leave my marriage also because I finally learned through this program that self love is the answer. My God as I understand Him opened my eyes and made me see that I was not just destroying myself but I was also destroying any chance my children had of growing up and getting into healthy, happy relationships.

My God does expect me to love myself enough to walk away when I have to. This may sound selfish to some and perhaps it is but my son and daughters are better people today because of it. If that is what I can expect because I choose self love then guess what. I will choose it EVERY TIME.

Do something to help yourself, your son and your wife Marty because staying and tolerating it obviously isn't working. Ask God to help you along your way and rest assured that He will be there with you. I pray for all of you, especially your wife. I hope she will also find her way. Take care.


Member: jenifer d
Location: england swings
Date: 2/11/00
Time: 12:05:09 PM

Comments

Fred M, thank you. I think that I am on the same path as you, and, now that I see how well it has worked for you, I am happy to think that maybe I will have 20 good years too, Thank you for sharing. Sorry for the double dip.


Member: A Friend
Location: Here and now
Date: 2/11/00
Time: 12:27:42 PM

Comments

Nicky O -

Friends are here. Post on the coffee pot - you will receive some wonderful support. Love and light to you.


Member: Amused Chick!
Location:
Date: 2/11/00
Time: 2:17:29 PM

Comments

Ah, and here's the rest of the story!

Brought to you by the 4th and 5th Steps!


Member: Kristi
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Date: 2/11/00
Time: 4:28:05 PM

Comments

MARTY, thank you so much for your honesty and for finding this site. I can't say that I wholly agree with the other responses you received, because it sounds to me like you love your wife, sickness and all. I am very close to a friend (alcoholic) who has similar problems with his spouse, although she is not alcholic, she has many of the same behaviour traits as your wife. He stays in this marriage, with a 12 year old daughter, doing what God puts in front of him until he finds the right answer. This does not make him a doormat, nor a bad father by exposing his child to the torment he receives almost daily. He teaches his child, through his own actions, that love and tolerance just might prevail. IMHO, if the child is brought up correctly, with at least one loving parent anyway, they'll never chastise you for staying with your spouse.

I suppose if you still love your wife, then you have hope. You must be honest with your reasons for staying. If they are simply for ease and convenience, you are doing yourself a great injustice. Alcoholics never get better because of something YOU try to do. They must get themselves better.

As for knowing whether or not your wife is in fact an alcoholic, who can say. I have always been taught through the working of AA that we cannot judge. So, Marty, not even another alcoholic could tell you that. Sure, we know some of the symptoms, but there could be other reasons for her behaviour far beyond the bottle.

I will give you my email address, and if you would like, I will even see if my friend can, at the very least, bring you some comfort.

I AM an alcoholic, and my name is Kristi caruso@icc-az.com


Member: WARNING
Location: an AA
Date: 2/11/00
Time: 6:00:08 PM

Comments

To Marty -

PLEASE be aware that we are alcoholics. Keep in mind that we are NOT marriage counselors, lawyers, doctors etc. We know about alcoholism and our own personal experiences. PERIOD. PLEASE keep that in mind as you read responses.


Member: Warning II
Location: AA
Date: 2/11/00
Time: 6:47:35 PM

Comments

So WARNING what you are telling Marty and the rest here is that because we are alcoholics we have NO experience in other life issues. GET REAL MAN! Life is Life and I would venture to guess that many alcoholics on this site have experienced much more than just boozing. Read John S's post again man. He speaks of his own experience. And I thank God that we have people who do address other issues in life outside of the booze. You know why, WARNING? Because it is those very life issues that I drank over and ran from. Don't discourage people from sharing their life experiences with any of us because it is what KEEPS ME AND OTHERS SOBER!

So Keep keepin on Marty my friend. And I agree with the general concensus....STOP BEING A DOORMAT AND ENABLER TO YOUR WIFE.


Member: Jane V
Location: Oh
Date: 2/11/00
Time: 9:45:26 PM

Comments

Melissa F, you made my tears roll and that is hard for any one to do to me, I can relate... I've asked for God's help over and over again, expecting a miricle, and the one thing I have learned but am still fighting is that we also need eachother. to find a meeting place to get a sponsor and begin the healing process. I am stubborn, but please, believe in God he is real and here. He does hear you, write to me if you need someone to talk to, wastrings@yahoo.com Jane V


Member: Rod B.
Location: NE.
Date: 2/11/00
Time: 11:17:34 PM

Comments

Marty, contact Al-Anon, go to a few meetings and hear their suggestions. Your HP will direct you from there if your willing to put it in your HP's hands. Pray for your wife. Perhaps you could attend an open AA meeting. Talk to the membership and they too will provide thoughts you haven't thought of. You've already begun the process of "reaching out and asking for help". Continue the journey.

Love and Prayers, Rod


Member: Christine B.
Location: Boston MA USA
Date: 2/12/00
Time: 1:33:33 AM

Comments

Hi everyone, Christine here, grateful recovering alcoholic...actually a "double winner", recovering in Al-Anon as well.

>>>MARTY...no one can tell you definitively what is up with your wife, but I will suggest that you can get help for you and your kids. PLEASE contact Al-Anon, which is a program similar to AA except that it is for family and friends of alcoholics. They can be reached for more information by calling toll free at 888-425-2666 (888-4AL-ANON) I am a member there as well and I can promise you that you will get the understanding and support you are searching for. Please feel free to email me if you would like to talk, since this is really not the proper forum, as this is a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Glad that you are seeking help, and I will pray for you and your family.

Sorry group, for deviating from the format and the topic. But the Big Book does say that we should offer this way of life to the family if the alcoholic is unwilling, right?

God Bless all!

<<Hugz>> Christine :) gucci0526@excite.com


Member: Jim R
Location: Renton, WA
Date: 2/12/00
Time: 6:04:39 AM

Comments

I thought I had a pretty good handle on the "Higher Power" thing, but in the midst of a 'hootowl' meeting tonight, my concept got a bit altered. Off in one of the candlelit meeting rooms,door slightly ajar, I could hear someone in the main foyer. Upon seeing a bright light under and through the slightly-open door, I got up to investigate. I was greeted with a very nasty "FREEZE!" and found 2 Seattle police officers pointing guns at me, at which time THEY were suddenly 'a power greater than myself'! Someone had seen a person leaving at the late hour and called the cops re: a 'break-in'. Once explained, they apoligized, but not before I almost peed my pants! Only twice in my life have I had guns pointed at me -- once by police in a drunken episode, and the other *AT* an AA meeting....how bizarre. I *did* want to comment on-topic. Having had a 'lightning-bolt' spiritual experience as a teen, I thought I had it all together in that respect, didn't work beyond Step 3, and after 12 yrs w/o a drink (and several years w/o meetings)forgot I was powerless. I have 7months once again as of today, and am currently doing a daily exercise on Steps 10 & 11. My self-righteous attitude got me drunk, reminding me that I'm no more or less 'special' than anyone else. AA meetings, working the steps, and hanging with clean and sober people *IS* the "easier, softer way"!


Member: To Warning II AKA Mike
Location: Would love to encounter you
Date: 2/12/00
Time: 7:18:41 AM

Comments

Gee - Warning II sounds an awful lot like Mike from Here & There. I'd venture a guess you are one and the same. How? Your rotton self-righteous know-it-all attitude shines through - go to a meeting big-mouth.


Member: FORGOT HIS FAVORITE WORD
Location: NOT WITH THE JERK
Date: 2/12/00
Time: 7:23:09 AM

Comments

got it - MAN ?


Member: Warning II
Location: AA
Date: 2/12/00
Time: 9:17:40 AM

Comments

to whoever you are trying to guess who I am....You are clueless MAN....So keep guessing MAN....Its clear that it bugs the shit out of you MAN...So keep on guessing because you don't seem to have any kind of life to speak of MAN.


Member: MM
Location: Tired of this crap
Date: 2/12/00
Time: 9:24:14 AM

Comments

Will you guys who are contantly bickering please give it a rest. As Stanley B has said before, take it to the coffee pot. And who ever you are that keeps antagonizing Warning II. Will you please leave it alone or go and post your nasty messages on the CP. Oh and by the way before you start accusing me too, I am not Mike either.


Member: Mike
Location: Here & There
Date: 2/12/00
Time: 11:07:59 AM

Comments

to the idiot out there posting messages to Warning II.....LEAVE ME OUT IT!! Stop trying to drag me into your little petty tyraid.... Live and let live you FOOL...oh right, I mean MAN!!!!!!


Member: chris h.
Location: florida
Date: 2/12/00
Time: 1:06:09 PM

Comments

Hi all chris here alcoholic/addict/bulimic here...Glad to be back..Interesting discusion this week!!! I had a faith in God when I came into the rooms (6 yrs. ago), but I didn't realize how that relationship was being hindered by my using and my inability to be rigerously honest with myself, my God, and another person..It was not until I tried to become honest that I began to get some serenity and make some progress in understanding how loving and helpful my HP could be. Right now , I feel like I need to spend more time in " quiet communication" with my HP, and boy is that hard for me. I'd much rather talk about it than do it. Any ideas would be appreciated. I am so geatful that, because of this program, I now know how trust worthy my HP is and how much He loves me....I am so greatful for that and for this site...Thank you all for sharing and being here....Till next week!!!


Member: James C
Location: Bellevue
Date: 2/12/00
Time: 2:33:17 PM

Comments

Hi All: I'm Jim, and I abuse alcohol. I waver on how I qualify "God". Around benevolent people and healthy children it is easy to "believe". But there are far too many instances of irreconcilable dogma and needless pain for me to "believe" on a regular basis. My "higher power" is whatever controls each and every "fight or flight" behavior I manifest. Regards, jc


Member: don. ex-drunk
Location: Virginia
Date: 2/12/00
Time: 2:38:04 PM

Comments

Three pertinent ideas: 1. I'm powerless over alcohol and my life was unmanageable. 2. probably no human power could relieve my alcoholism. 3. God could and would if He were sought.

Being convinced of these three pertinent ideas we came to step three.

Step three: Made a decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of God as ((((((I understand him.))))))

There are those who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders but they too can recover if they have the capacity to be honest.


Member: Chris B.
Location: princeton,b.c.
Date: 2/12/00
Time: 4:01:50 PM

Comments

hi i'm chris, and i am an alcoholic God plays a big part in my maintaining my sobriety.God gave me sobriety when i was ready to give up and die.God's intervention in my life was truly a miracle.i can think of no other reason for my being here today if it was'nt for God's grace thanks chris b


Member: Marty
Location:
Date: 2/12/00
Time: 9:59:13 PM

Comments

Hi. This is Marty again, and it occurred to me after my first post that I was way off, actually not even close to the subject. My apologies for diverting your attentions. I would just like to say "Thank You" for all of your support and understanding in this difficult time. Most of the other chat rooms and message boards are sooooo impersonal, but this one is different. A big thanks to Kristi in Phoenix for offering an ear outside these boards. I'd love to hear from others. My e-mail is enviro1962@yahoo.com. Thanks....

Marty


Member: kevinm
Location: fl
Date: 2/12/00
Time: 11:44:11 PM

Comments

this is jussssst a sugestion, try doing the steps, if life doesn't change after that, you can always get your misery back. With love, by the grace of God and fellowship of AA, good night


Member: michael
Location: san diego
Date: 2/13/00
Time: 2:43:45 AM

Comments

Micheal alcoholic. To George C. Thank you so much for sharing and the topic. I thought what you said was very beautiful and healing for me. I to have sufferd from having an idea of a punishing religious god. Through your insight I am now open to change my perception of God. Maybe God really is love, peace ,serenity,joy all intelligent and all the good stuff.


Member: Jen
Location: ?
Date: 2/13/00
Time: 5:48:50 AM

Comments

I,m Jen an Alcoholic,

It's late, this is the only meeting I could get to on line. I don't know why, but here I am. I am sober and alive, "but for the grace of God", and very grateful, but I am also very afraid. Things in my life are changing, they are very different, I know my perspective is off tonight, it usually is when I am spinning like I am. I prayed, nothing is working. I don't know what is wrong with me. Have you ever felt like our Higher Power is not there? Or maybe he is, that is why He brought me here?There is all this stuff that I don't have control over going on. I know that I don't have conrol over it anyway. What is my point? I got sober a little under a year ago. Was given everything, I mean everything fell into place, not my will, but God's. Now it is all changing. My insides are all messed up. I'm going to go work on my fourth, sit still and feel the pain, wait for a meeting, call my sponsor, and talk to some friends in the program. I just frrl that I that I thought was real is a lie. All of it. How do I deal with these feelings without going insane? Does anyone know what I am going through?


Member: A FRIEND
Location: BEEN THERE
Date: 2/13/00
Time: 8:14:25 AM

Comments

Jen - you are not alone. You will get through this.....and be stronger for it. Believe that I believe. Read "Footprints". God is carrying you - you just can't see/feel it right now.

Come back to this site and the Coffee Pot. Friends are here. ((((HUG)))))


Member: Chris C.
Location: Ottumwa, Iowa
Date: 2/13/00
Time: 9:08:45 AM

Comments

Hi everybody. My name is Chris and I'm an alcoholic.

I still have times when this "God" thing seems a little weak. That everything I believe in seems doubtful. That I'm praying to a wall. But I remember my first honest prayer in 25 years. I was on my knees in desperation. I had nowhere else to turn. "God. If you exist, please help me."

He didn't care if I was a believer or not. His child was in trouble and had asked for help. He gave it.

When I have doubtful times now I pray just like I do when my faith is strong. He always answers. Either way.

Thanks for reading. I'll pass.


Member: Jim C.
Location: Anaheim, Calif.
Date: 2/13/00
Time: 10:28:46 AM

Comments

I am Jim, a real alcoholic, When I think of God, I think of all of the miracles, which have come into my life. The first was the day, I nearly screamed for God to help me. I couldn't stop drinking, and I wanted to die. That was a little over 19 yrs. ago. God did answer my prayer, and continues to fill my life with blessings beyond belief. In my 19 yrs. of sobriety, God has answered every prayer, even though the answer has been no sometimes, but the prayers were always answered none the less. In the last 19 yrs. I have learned how to live, to love others, to let others love me, and even to love myself. God and this program, have given me that. I will be eternally gratefull. Soon, I will be sharing a lot of other miracles which have come my way. Thank you family for always being there. To Chris(Iowa) your post was really moving, Thank you, it put me right where I need to be. Full of Gratitude for this day, and for my sobriety, given to me by God.


Member: Lyn F.
Location: Chgo. Il.
Date: 2/13/00
Time: 2:03:42 PM

Comments

Hi, My name is Lyn from chgo. and I'm an alcoholic! I feel it is a great privelidge to share with people all over the globe from the warm of my home. That is when I can't get to a meeting(sick kids)! My higher power is just incredible! He has helped me, carried me, and laughed with me through the good and the crappie! He's always there for me!!! ALWAYS I have been truly blessed to be able to see the real gifts of life !! Have a great day-- Lyn F.


Member: JerryL
Location: Sacto. California
Date: 2/13/00
Time: 2:37:17 PM

Comments

Hi my name is Jerry and I am an alcholic. I'm in my fourth year of sobriety and I have been feeling down for the last few months. My wife passed away 3 years ago during my first year of sobriety. I handled that by relying on God (my higher power) and staying focused on the principles of the program. Now I feel depressed about the lack of a relationship. I heard recently at a speaker meeting that relationships (being in one and not being in one) is one of the biggest problems many alcoholics face. Today I believe that is true for me. I pray a lot and I'm tempted to pray for myself that God puts someone in my life. But we are told in the Big Book to never pray for ourselves. JL


Member: Jim C.
Location: Anaheim, Calif.
Date: 2/13/00
Time: 3:20:38 PM

Comments

Hi again, I'm Jim, still a real alcoholic. Sorry for the double-dip, but I wanted to respond to Jerry, in Sacramento. There is absolutely nothing wrong with praying for things for ourselves, as long as we leave the results up to God. I'm very sorry about your wife. I know how hard it is to lose someone you are close to, whether it be a spouse, or a friend, or anyone else. We do learn to deal with the grief, and with the help of God, and our family in this program, we do heal. Some time ago I found that I must place my relationships, or lack of relationships in God's hands, and when the right one comes along, you will certainly know it. That sure has happened for me, and will for you I'm sure. Our Higher Power wants us to find peace and serenity, and in time we do. I have for sure, most of the time. My prayers are with you for your loss, and for good things for you in the future. Please contact me at e-mail Dblwinrjimmie@aol.com if you would ever care to just talk to someone. The very best to you and to your healing. In sobriety, Jim C.


Member: Bruce T
Location: Wisc.
Date: 2/13/00
Time: 6:02:03 PM

Comments

Hi I'm Bruce and I am an alcoholic (((Jen))) Some times when I am feeling like you are The only thing that helps is to ride the feelings to thier end... The less struggling to understand them... the less painfull they seem. HP is in control even when we don't recognize his presence. This is how I learned to "Let go and Let God" Some times a good screem and the short serenity prayer helps...Point it to the sky and say... AAHH...to hell with it. He will understand and hear you. Hang in there we've all been there. See ya all next week Bruce T


Member: PAUL B
Location: CANADA
Date: 2/13/00
Time: 9:01:54 PM

Comments

My name is paul and i am alcoholic: I want to say that I am glad that there is a higher power greater than me for alot of years ii pretended to be the higher power and was always proven wrong.

After a few 24 hours and lots of meetings i discovered that there is a god and i am npot it. For i am here because, I believe that someone is guiding me through my life instead of me trying to run my life.

This is my first time and think that this is really nice where we can share our thoughts with people who can relate .

Have a good one PAUL B NOVA SCOTIA CANADA